tuscl

ID scanning vs. Facebook comparison reboot

623
Alligators make good pets, at least up to 4 ft long ....
Wednesday, April 11, 2018 11:39 AM
I started this discussion a few days ago but couldn't get back to it early enough to comment so I thought I would add new thoughts here. My earlier discussion compared Facebook sharing to handing over your ID at a dive club where they scan it. One practice causes the outrage I think it should, the other practice goes unchallenged by many. @[view link].Ishmael, I think you missed my point, it was that handing your ID to a fat-fingered Guido at Sleaze-R-Us club is nearly the same as having a Facebook presence except that people seem to trust and willingly participate in one and are outraged at the other. FYI, I never have and probably never will have a social media presence, but I am still being tracked and profiled no doubt. I have also never allowed my real ID to be scanned at a club. I am a 40 year veteran of the technology field, most of it a senior levels, and was simply trying to impart information, not preach to anyone. People should know that virtually every time you touch a connected device your information is being tracked. It doesn't matter if you use a fake email or a false separate ID. Your connection point to the internet (IP address and gateway provider), the MAC address of your devices, ESN from your mobiles, your ISP and other data points are all being saved also. As soon as you do banking or credit card or trusted transactions from the same locations or devices you are identified. You can then be targeted thru ad mods, social media suggestions, website adjustments or even snail mail. This isn't on someones wish list or pie in the sky, it is actively being done to some extent today and it gets more invasive every month. The end game and sole goal of these actions are to get you to do something that you otherwise would not do. This isn't limited to Facebook or Google either. There is a data consolidator in Georgia that claims, in their material to prospective customers of their services, that they have over 1,200 data points on EVERY home in America. And that was 10 years ago. Facebook just happens to be the high profile villain of the day. BTW, they claim to have over 1,600 data points on every FB user, in their marketing material. As I stated earlier, I wasn't trying to preach to TUSCL users anything. There are probably users on this board that are more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am, I was just trying to sound an alarm. Since Facebook is in the news I thought it might be a good time. It is up to each user if they want to try and put out the fire or leave the building. In many ways, fat-fingered Guido at Sleaze-R-Us club is a more honest representation and probably a much lower-tech threat.

17 comments

  • shailynn
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    6 years ago
    If these fuckers have at least 1,200 data points on me at my home and know what I want and desire and what I’m willing to spend money on, how come nobody has built an FKK club and an In & Out Burger Down the street from where I live yet?
  • orionsmith
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    6 years ago
    With all the talk about facebook, I logged out of my account only 30 minutes after logging into it. Then I came here. I think Facebook knows I have been looking at strippers because it suggests I look at Facebook strip club web sites now, I am shocked, just shocked. The next thing I know, facebook will suggest hookups with strippers. Actually a free dating site where you can set up a userid not your real name and communicate for free with other users without paying but do see ads would appeal to me.
  • a21985
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    6 years ago
    Your last point I believe is false, as its not Guido thats my problem. The data and data firms that have my FB data have the more proper infrastructure to protect my data, and while there is info that could be used for longshot social engineering attempts and to build a marketing profile on me, its not a ton more than that. Sleezeball Guido himself probably does not have the correct infrastructure to protect my data (i.e. - much more easily hacked and not secure). The people who would be after his data are the ones that are out there to truly steal identities, and with my license #, birthday and address, they can do some serious damage on that front. I work in the tax and accounting industry, and we've seen the bad actors on the security side now go after the mom and pop shops rather than the big guys. They know the smaller shops do a shit job at protecting data, so even though the haul is smaller, they have a much better chance to get away with it.
  • Cashman1234
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    6 years ago
    a21985 said it well. That’s my primary concern as well. I don’t give a shit about 623’s senior level IT positions. His reading comprehension is poor - as he doesn’t get it.
  • san_jose_guy
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    6 years ago
    Facebook is just idiots who give out their names and personal info. ID Scanning at a strip club probably goes no further than that scanner, but also it probably is an attempt to make a much better club experience, safer, exempt from certain types of public place laws. SJG
  • san_jose_guy
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    6 years ago
  • a21985
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    6 years ago
    SJG - unfortunately, you are wrong about the scanner part. Most modern advanced scanners are actually built to retain the scanned information. This information can be viewed within the device itself, but often its setup so the information can be exported elsewhere. That info is then retained into a database where information can viewed either for security purposes to see who attended and when, for a mail merge, or for more suspect reasons.
  • JackScott
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    6 years ago
    When I give my information to someone that I can look in the eye, if it's ever used maliciously, I know/remember who gave it away. They know this also. So in order to not lose their customers or credibility, they can't let anything happen to the data. On the other hand, if I am giving my information to someone that I can't see, and I don't know where it goes, who sees it, how many people see it, or how and when it gets spread all over the internet.. and they can do it without any consequences, I am not as trusting.
  • san_jose_guy
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    6 years ago
    " Most modern advanced scanners are actually built to retain the scanned information. This information can be viewed within the device itself, but often its setup so the information can be exported elsewhere." Of course the information could be made available to others. But I think the reason they do a scan, rather than having you print on a form, and then check it with your DL, and then type it in, is that in fact no one is going to see it unless they are hit with a court order. Giving it to facebook, on the otherhand, you know it will be used, not just in some ways, but in every single way possible. You know they target you for ads, based on your info. You know that such info is how they make their money. "That info is then retained into a database where information can viewed either for security purposes to see who attended and when, for a mail merge, or for more suspect reasons." To use the info those way, they would either have to use optical character recognition, or manually recognize it and type it in. While this is theoretically possible, I don't think they are going to do this. I do understand that everyone has the right to make choices. And I do think it would be better if we had some review fields to deal with this whole cluster of issues. The reason I think they are collecting the info, in this untextualized form, is twofold: 1. Probably reduces the risks of serious crimes, makes it safer, lower insurance for the business and the landlord. 2. What they say to you is, welcome to our club, and may we please scan your id? But if they are ever challenged by LE, what they will say is, Officer, this is a membership club. So the laws against public sex and public lewd conduct no longer apply. They want your id because that will bolster their claim that this is no longer a retail business, but a membership club. It gets them out from under a whole host of laws. It does mean that they can no longer hold a liquor license or sell alcohol. So it can either be BYOB or No Alcohol. They are following the business model pioneered by swingers clubs, a model which encourages sex in front of other people. It does not get them out from under such criminal codes, like Robbery, Rape or Murder. And it does not get them out from under the law against prostitution. But as a practical matter, it becomes much harder for LE to enforce, and it becomes very very hard for them to gain the political mandate to do so. Very few non-mongers are even in there to know what is going on. So there is less likely to be public out cry for protecting public morality. Sure, if there were no reason for scanning the id's, I would not accept it. But I believe there is in fact a very worthwhile reason for it. And understand, the idea is probably coming from attorneys, and that the club staff is probably never told what the real reasons are. Anyone else experienced this, and might you be willing to say where, and how they handled alcohol, and other matters about the club? SJG Mike Oldfield-Tubular Bells III Live London [view link] Mike Oldfield Man In The Rain [view link]
  • a21985
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    6 years ago
    SJG - again thats not correct. All the info on the license is stored on the magnetic strip. Swiping it collects that info and it can be stored easily from there. This is something I know for a fact and seen firsthabd, not speculation.
  • san_jose_guy
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    6 years ago
    Interesting, that is not my understanding: 1. I thought only a serial number is stored on the magnetic strip, and the rest of the info would come from a computer when LE scans your license. Usually when LE scans it they look up some vast records on the party. 2. But scanning the id, I thought the club was just scanning an image of the front face. Okay, so if it is as you say, the info would be easier to mis-use. But my feeling is that they are just saving it for this legal defensibility purpose, to being able to claim that it is a members only club, though seeing that it is better not to tell people this. If so, while I respect the rights of people to decline, I for one see the scanning as well worthwhile. Remember, in strip clubs they don't give the staff a legal education, they don't tell them why things need to be as they are, they just tell them what to do. SJG Jimmy Smith - The Sermon [view link]
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    6 years ago
  • san_jose_guy
    •
    6 years ago
    "An ID scanner clearly displays the age of the customer and makes it easy for a bouncer, bartender or clerk to verify that the customer is old enough to purchase age regulated products like tobacco or alcohol. ID card scanners are commonly used in bars, nightclubs, liquor stores, casinos, police enforcement, and convenience stores." SJG
  • Call.Me.Ishmael
    •
    6 years ago
    A21985... It's adorable that you think you're going to change SJG's mind about anything.
  • TFP
    •
    6 years ago
    ^^^^^^^what he said. Got a good supply of popcorn for two threads now. With this one I'm pretty much just reading A21985's responses and scrolling past all of SJG's rambling.
  • 623
    •
    6 years ago
    @a21985, it’s not Guido I’m worried about either. It’s all the Eastern Europeans with their black hat sweat shops that Facebook and any other data consolidater will be happy to sell my data to. Facebook is only a data gathering machine, it’s who they give that stuff to that’s is the real worry, and it could be Guido or his boss or anyone else with a fat checkbook. Facebook is just now being forced to grow a conscience (we’ll see if they really do) but there are a thousand other data gatherers with less profile and maybe less scruples.
  • a21985
    •
    6 years ago
    @ishmael - in my defense, the version of SJG I see now since I've been back is much more reasonable and sociable than the one I remember before my last hiatus from TUSCL. I assume dougster's absence may have something to do with that though...
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