Ruining a dancers self esteem

You make a few good points PD. There is no reason to demean a dancer. In my opinion - there’s no reason to demean another person because of their attempt to earn a living. If a dancer offers - and I’m not feeling it - I will generally say “No thank you” and then I will compliment something about her. “You have great eyes” or something to let her know that she’s a very good looking girl.

As far as pussies - and their look - they are a gift that keeps on giving. The more a pussy is used - the better they tend to feel. I’ve not seen a pussy that I wouldn’t enjoy.

its not that hard to not be an ass to someone else. :)

@Cashman1234, I usually do the same thing. I tell them they're pretty even if I'm declining the dance.

Also, a quick observation, somehow it's an insult to tell a dancer that she's too heavy, but it's almost like a compliment to tell them that they're too skinny. I use the "Sorry, but you're a little too skinny for me" line often, and I usually get a smile. Once in a while they even thank me for the compliment. I do prefer thicker women.

@poledancer83 I understand what you are saying and agree, but...

...if a stripper wants to know why I won't get dances with her, I am going to first ask her if she is sure. And then I am going to be brutally honest about it, and if it has something to do with her looks, I am going to say exactly what it is that I have issue with and tell her it is MY issue, not hers.

But also to your point I'm not going to nitpick her flaws to death and will keep it simple and as tactful as possible. For example if she has fake breasts I will just say I personally like all natural girls and leave it at that. Of if she is too skinny I will just say I prefer more full figured dancers.

If I'm not attracted to a stripper, I'm going to basically leave her alone anyway and if approached I won't show much interest anyway and tell her I'm waiting on someone else. This usually avoids all possibility of divulging her issues, but if she pushes the issue she is eventually going to hear the brutal truth. Fortunately this is rare.

And on the flip side I think strippers need to understand that they are beautiful in their own way and they are not going to be the type for everyone, so they don't need to be so sensitive about feedback from a PL. All women are beautiful to me, but not all women are not my type.

^ sorry I meant to say not all women are my type.

Unfortunately @PD there are a lot of insensitive jerks out there who claim they are just telling it like it is but all they really are is jerks, being drunk is no excuse as all it does is release their inhibitions so now you know what their true thoughts are.
Same for those jackasses that claim to not be politically correct all that is is an excuse for being rude and a boor.

I agree PD that there is no use to insult or belittle a dancer who is asking you for a dance. Early in her career I am sure a dancer sometimes needs all of her courage to ask. Belittling and insulting can rapidly turn a promising dancer to a contributing member of SW. A no thanks will usually suffice for all but the most pushy dancers. When pushed hard I still try to be firm but kind but have been pushed to the point I will say "Yes I will get a dance, just not with you".

I'll stick with "no, thanks", and explain "I'm not feeling it" if she pushes. Contrary to what some believe, I don't have a giant chip on my shoulder. There have been a couple who react rudely to being rejected. I would bet they are just bitches in general, and the other dancers and patrons will know this and not hold it against you.
To Poley's example, it is inexplicable why they would keep you dancing while insulting you all the while. Most of us can't connect with that mindset. Money or no, maybe you should have just walked away, and warned the other girls about them

Fuck. Tried to edit and posted instead. I was going to write that you could ruin their night, and show them that spending money does not give them power over you. Just a thought.

I wonder how often this happens to dancers. hmmmm

It’s hard for me to tell dancers I’m not interested in to leave me alone. I know they’re trying to make money so they’ll be pushy, but at the same time I wanna spend money on the girls I really like, especially considering how expensive dances are. Wait a minute, why am I even buying dances? THATS A CHUMPS GAME!!!

O please gramma Nutz you mean you you never called a dancer porch monkey, or is that just the term of endearment you only share with us here on the board you fucking psycho.

This could probably make a good article. Oh, i would never talk badly about a woman's pussy (especially the pussy, the most feminine and powerful part of a woman's body) even if it wasn't my favorite "type". I don't really have a type (the most important quality of an attractive pussy is being on an attractive woman) and most people should know by now that i'm a PL (pussy lover), but I do prefer the larger, "phatter" (although almost no woman wants to be called phat anything) pussies actually (for many reasons), often the kind that most women are self-conscious of and will often get that stupid expensive surgery to butcher them and very few girls with this type are comfortable with extensive kitty play, unfortunately. So i make it a point to tell them honestly how lovely it is, even if it just so that they leave them alone. I've seen girls get them done, and it just made me very sad, especially since afterward, the girls still seem just as self-conscious of them if not more so. Breasts too. Bigger isn't always better and a little sag is not an issue at all to me. I will often tell a girl with small boobs (and by small i mean like A cups) or saggy ones, how nice they are. And i feel i'm being honest too. Not to inflate her head, but so that she doesn't get them done. Even girls that had perfectly nice ones, (perky or mostly perky C cups and even D cups) have ruined them with implants. So even if it seems obvious, i will complement their boobs and suggest that they never get them done. It's even sad that i'm starting to have to do this with butts too. And many girls can do something about their butts (a muscle) naturally.

If you live long enough, you understand that everyone is different and all things have their good qualities about them. My biggest issue is hygiene and when a woman seemingly lets herself go. Things she can control. I know i don't hit the gym; i hate working out and i'm cheap about memberships and wasted expenses, and don't want to spend any time doing what i don't want to do so i'll never be fit and buff looking. Women are special in that they seemingly don't have to work out to look great. Making fun of things that women (or anyone) have no control of is bush league. Baby "damage" is unfortunate, but expected. And to see the difference from before can sometimes be jarring for someone who goes to the club for their fantasy woman. But i bet it's even more jarring to the woman who has to see it and live with it everyday. The way i see it is that she is still the same woman, so all her good qualities otherwise are still there. This all might seem hypocritical when i seemingly seek out the most physically attractive women (9+) and all my favorites are and have been very attractive to me (mostly 9+, but a couple 8s or 8.5s in there, IMO).

But i do agree it is hard for strippers (and women in general). So much of their self-worth, rightly or wrongly is tied down to their physical appearance. I try to do as much as reasonably possibly so that a dancer i'm not attracted to doesn't sit with me. I won't make eye contact or smile at her or let her sit on my lap. If she does sit by me, i won't engage her much in conversation besides the most basic pleasantries. If i see my favorite or a regular dancer that i like, i'll just tell her that it was nice meeting her, shake her hand or touch her arm/shoulder and leave the table and walk toward my preferred dancer.

I have been guilty of giving "charity" dances to less attractive girls that were still friendly and had pleasant personalities. But as i spent almost (okay not almost) stupid, scary amounts of money on my favorites, i find i couldn't afford to waste even a dance or decent tip or drink on them. Yes it might only seem like only $10-30 out of many hundreds that i'm willing to spend, but how many dancers are there like this? There could be a sizeable number of them. It just adds up, and then i have to continue to deal with them on subsequent visits unless i cut them off and they get the message.

This also extends to the stage. I've seen customers yell out next, as soon as a less attractive dancer walks on stage, or they'll just flee the stage en mass like someone just farted. Or they stay, but not tip a single dollar, even if the girl gives them attention. Or when she does, he'll instantly move 90 degrees toward another customer. To me these are just dick moves. Yes, some of these girls probably shouldn't be in this business, but still there is a type for everyone, so you can't completely brush them off. If i'm still parked at the stage, and the girl gives me attention, i will tip her or leave.

This is not an easy industry to work in and never will be. But there is never a good reason to be mean. Kindness is a virtue and one of very best at that and is almost always appreciated on both ends.

@pd: Before you go and read this, please know that this is *not* how I treat every dancer with whom I don't want to spend time. This one was just whiny and bitchy. All the time, not just in this episode.

https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=1488…

You definitely have to have a thick skin for this type of job. A girl with skyrocketing confidence that loves everything about herself can slowly but surely see herself differently if she starts stripping - not because she won't be every guy's type, but because there are assholes out there that literally make their preference a reason to insult or put her down for her looks. Every dancer has dealt with them, and they probably won't stop coming to the clubs, so it's up to her on how she can take his useless fuckery.

It makes it a lot easier to know that the main reason guys would do that is because he knows it wouldn't be socially acceptable to just start being rude to a woman he saw outside the bar in any other social setting. Just like with retail or customer service - you'll get those frustrating customers that will try to ruin your day only because they think you're still being paid to force a smile at them and have to face their complaints no matter how minuscule or absolutely ridiculous they are. It seems when you're the one providing the service and not the one asking for it, people treat you entirely different.

But know for every one rare customer or group of guys that tries to see if they can put you down or get a negative reaction out of you, there are a hundred others that are much more respectable and just want a genuine good time with the girl of their choice.

WOW great post D squared! :-)

^ Dungeons and Dragons? ;)

No, you do not criticize a woman's looks, ever, even under intense interrogation.

You don't criticize their fake tits, or lack there of. If they ask you if they are too fat, you say 'no'.

If they ask you how old they are, you try to avoid it, and say the light is too low. If you have to speak, you go way way under.

Once at the age of 22yo a woman asked me how old I thought she was, as we were sitting at a friends breakfast table. I figured she was 35yo. So I said 30yo. She started screaming. Turns out she was 29yo. I learned my lesson.

If a girl asks why you won't do dances with her you NEVER say anything which has anything to do with her looks, no matter how hard she presses.

And besides, buying dances is a chumps game. Better if you select the girl and engage with her yourself. Pick the girl you would like to be waking up with the next morning. Evade dances, but demonstrate respect for her need to make money by being generous in the front room. Treat her in a completely civilian manner and get a front room makeout session going. When it is time for your own pants to come down, then you invite her to the back room. Then take her home with you to continue, and keep on seeing her regularly.

SJG

It's crazy, I've never seen a customer be rude to a dancer... maybe it's because I only go to $5-$10 dances club.. so if she's pushy sometimes I be like "what the hell it's just $5".. then I give her 3 small claps on her ass to tell her to leave... pretty much I pay them to leave me the fuck alone for the night. Pushy strippers is a straight buzz kill

PD probably some guys think just because they are showering you with $$$ they get a right to treat you any way they want. I suppose its some kind of weird superiority thing some need and feel they have a right to say since they are paying you apparently to be humiliated. You dont have to put up with that garbage and can simply walk away if it negatively affects you. Some guys are just clueless dickheads...

I would suggest immediately hanging out with your regs and guys treating you well to get that positive feedback.

@EveHartley: "that the main reason guys would do that is because he knows it wouldn't be socially acceptable to just start being rude to a woman he saw outside the bar in any other social setting."

That's part of it, but I think it's more likely that these insulting losers are just insecure assholes who feel better about themselves by denigrating others, and strippers are pretty low on the social esteem totem pole, making them safe targets.

There are more than a couple examples of this right here on TUSCL. People who denigrate strippers, yet still, for some reason, go see them for entertainment and sex. It's almost as if they're trying to conceal how they feel about themselves by pointing out flaws in others.

I think the strip club just tends to reveal more of who you are. So you're going to get a more honest appraisal of how customers really are since there is really no penalty for their behavior. Some of them even feel entitled to it based on how much they spend. I'm surprised that EveHartley's club has such a high ratio of good to bad customers. Good for her. That has not been my experience and i only see a fraction of what the dancers do. My favorite club tends not to be busy, despite being so large with a decent number of dancers, and many of my favorites will tell me that a lot of the customers just aren't good or nice people. I don't ask what they do for them to say that, but as there aren't that many of them, they have little choice but to deal with them, making their job not easy and stressful. Even the friendliest dancer there, who only usually works weekends, will come back to me and say, the customers are weird tonight. Something shook her up. I know she wants to get more dances with me and go back to the crowd, but i already did one with her and am waiting on my favorite to dance the night away with. Maybe i should ask them to elaborate, but then it will probably sound like your average rant from SW.

^ and not go back to the crowd...

I'm sure the most upstanding, nice guys are not the majority of strip club customers. I mean not all guys are as outstanding as those of us who post on TUSCL. Way too many men have no idea how to treat others with respect. Add alcohol, cash, naked girls, and darkness of a club, it's no wonder dancers end up dealing with assholes.

I have only seen a very few girls dancing in clubs that repulsed me. Very few I thought should not ever be seen naked by anyone. I have experienced many more aggressive, pushy dancers that basically just piss you off by their behavior and attitude.

My go to response to a request for a dance by a girl I don't care for is something like "thanks for asking but no". Sometimes I add that I'm waiting on someone else, just arrived, taking a break, or any other thing. Sometimes I even add a comment such as you are lovely. It all just depends on the situation or the girl.

No reason to be rude or demeaning to a nearly naked girl. It's tough enough to work as a dancer putting up with all the crap from customers, management, other dancers. Of course, they have the ability to piss me off on occasion too. Usually with a poor attitude or being pushy.

Strip club dancers take a great deal of emotional stress. It is hard on them, even if guys just seem to be ignoring them or shunning them.

SJG

Yardbirds, a more white space type of performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QcTgPyI…

I've never put a dancer down for how she looks, but at this point I avoid getting dances that I'm not going to enjoy even if I have to be firm. I prefer just to say "no thanks," but sometimes that isn't enough, so I have to escalate. Most of the times I've shown anger with a stripper is because she cheated me by exaggerating the number of dances or by not delivering something promised or hinted at. Once a stripper shared some ignorant conspiracy theory about Obama with me and a totally lost it, called her stupid, etc. I'm not proud of that.

The way I see it, the men that find flaws about a dancer's physical appearance and put her down for it, are most likely to be men that are not all that attractive themselves. They may have self esteem issues themselves about the way they look and they cope with it by putting others down about how they look.

I firmly believe that when you are a customer at a "Gentlemen's Club", you should act like a gentlemen. Dancers typically don't criticize their customers about how they look. The least we as customers can do is not criticize dancers about how they look.

I'm usually nice to the dancers but become less so the more pushy and rude they get. Fortunately most dancers aren't that pushy or rude. I enjoy talking to a majority of dancers. They're why I'm visiting a club.

I never denigrate dancers looks to her face. I know I am nothing special so in the looks department so I'm certainly not going to say something to someone else.

When I don't find a dancer attractive, I just say no thanks. I've never had one ask me why.

In my book, if you have to make someone else feel bad to make yourself feel better, the problem is with you not them.

dirkdigger said "This is not an easy industry to work in and never will be. But there is never a good reason to be mean. Kindness is a virtue and one of very best at that and is almost always appreciated on both ends."

sometimes i feel that i am walking on eggshells in saying 'no' to a dancer. i try to be nice...

I agree, no need to demean someone.

Last night, a woman that had asked me on prior occasions for dances (I declined politely) and had confused me with other customers, tried again...This time using a "prove me wrong" approach. Saying "you don't like to get dances from me, do you?"
I explained that I was waiting for someone else who was taking a smoke. So she persisted "so you don't like anybody here other than her?" I really had to resist the temptation to tell her to buzz off and let me decide how to spend my money.

When a dancer approaches me with obvious implants, or i saw that she had some on the stage, or with an obscene amount of tattoos or body piercings (particularly face and nipples) including huge ear spacers, i just can't tell her that those are a considerable turn off and a probable reason that i won't get dances with her, especially after the fact as those changes are sadly, largely permanent. If she asks me what i think about her work(?), although girls almost never ask what i think about their implants, i might give a more honest answer, but i still tell them that it is their body and what they think or feel about it that is more important.

Such BS! Why else go to a club other than to insult the whores? Just a joke.

pole is correct. The only time I might get a bit testy is with those that don't back off after the aforementioned “No thank you”.

@PD83 - First of all, thank you for the interesting discussion. I understand your point of view, but I'd like to offer you another point of view as well.

From extensive personal experience, I'm going to disagree that all dancers are pushy as hell. I myself go to clubs to get away from stress. So the last thing I want is a dancer who's adding to my stress. If a dancer sits on my lap without invitation, and I have to say "no" to her more than once it's going to piss me off. If I say no and a girl walks away, I might give her a chance on some other night, but if she makes me say no "twice" then she's not ever going to get a dance from me. Never. And I'm a nice guy. Usually though it's not twice. Usually I have to say "no" at least 4 or 8 or more times in a row. And as soon as I get rid of that dancer, another one shows up. And another. And another. And here's the thing. If I haven't tipped you on stage, if I haven't made extended eye contact with you, if I haven't motioned you over, or asked someone to fetch you, then you by definition are interrupting me. And again, I'm a nice guy. So given this situation, I can easily imagine where a lot of guys who aren't quite so nice get pissed off as hell and are willing to say anything to get rid of a dancer who won't stop bothering them.

Another point I want to address is that when a customer is clearly drunk, you have no business trying to sell him dances. Usually when a dancer has a payment dispute with a customer, I tend to favor the dancer. However, the other night I saw a dancer complaining that a customer owed her $60, and when I looked at him, he seemed so drunk I couldn't believe he was even able to stand. A guy that drunk isn't able to give consent to a dance. I'm pretty sure I could have sold him land on Mars if I had tried. Second, a guy that drunk isn't going to have any self control. He might say or do anything, so why would you want to dance for someone like that? It's because of things like this I keep ripping the management of that club. That customer should have been ejected from the club, and that dancer should have been bitched out for taking advantage of him. Why weren't the waitresses or the bouncers or any of the managers doing their job?

As for that group, you should have left. There are guys who get off on abusing women through financial control. It's like the opposite of female financial domination. As I think you learned on your drive home, the money isn't worth it. If you want to have longevity as a dancer you have to learn how to minimize the psychic damage that's being done to you and more importantly the damage that you are doing to yourself.

So how do you approach a guy? First of all by observing him. What types of girls is he tipping on stage? What types of girls are turning his head? What types of girls is he speaking to? If you think you might be his type, try walking past him or just sitting in his line of sight to see if he shows interest. And if you decide to approach him anyway, without first having gotten some sign of interest, then make it as painless for everyone as possible. Walk up to him, ask if he would like some company, and if he says "no" then smile and walk away. That is how you approach a man in a strip club. There is nothing more unattractive than a woman trying to act like a man, and there is nothing more counter productive than trying to badger a man into accepting a lap dance. It's like a parent trying to badger a child into eating spinach. The harder the parent tries, the more convinced the child becomes that he doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

Because of things like this, I'm now getting to the point where I simply don't accept dances from girls I don't know. As I said before, I have zero interest in paying dancers to bring additional stress into my life. So my standard operating procedure is to talk to a girl first to find out what she's like, and if she interests me I might agree to one or two dances. Then the next time I see her the process continues. It's basically like an ongoing interview for the position of "club favorite." I don't really have an interest in getting random dances from several unknown girls when I go to a club. Instead I prefer to develop a small number of favorites, and each time I go to the club I will get dances from those same girls over and over again, assuming that they don't start doing stupid things like creating all sorts of drama and stress in my life. I know several dancers that I've now been getting dances from for about a year.

@anonlvone Great post. A dancer that just sits on my lap uninvited is completely violating my personal space and wow that is over the top pushy. So I am not going to feel one bit guilty that I don't want dances from her because I don't find her attitude attractive, let alone her.

Showing respect and kindness is a two way street and a lot of dancers need to learn this as much as customers.

LOL I love how a ROB's fake (as fuck) smile fades when she hears me say "no thanks, not right now" after she was as friendly (as fuck) two seconds ago before she asked if I wanted to dance.

I put up with zero drama and zero hustle in the club. I didn't come there to spend money on that shit. There are plenty of friendly and respectful strippers that I tip well and get dances with than to waste my time and money with ROBs. I also stick with dancers I know because we know not to play games with each other.

I think anon has the definitive post so far!

Well said anon.

I try to be polite but the more dancers that I have to turn down then I think my rejections become more curt and sometimes they get a little offended. I never insult them.

I agree with anonlvone in that all they should ask is "would you like some company?"
Instead some of them start out by sitting on you, touching you, bullshit compliments, talk like you are already in the middle of a conversation with them. Annoying.

Poledancer: 2 record companies turned down the Beatles. Not everone likes my band either, and not everyone will like any particular dancer no matter how hot she may actually be.

When you're in show biz like we both are, you need a thick skin. It goes with the territory so your attitude in dealing with assholes is just as important as your dancing, or my tunes, or your personality or my stage presence. Just do the best you can and be confident it's all worthwhile.

It's true that one guys hot girl is not everyone's hot girl. I've been disappointed by experiencing some of that in reverse. It's often some girls I don't care for much that act like I'm hot stuff. Of course I rarely complain when hot girls are all over me.