I felt the club was pumping them because the need to pay the house fees and tip out even if the club has a bad night and she didn’t make a dime she had to pay out of pocket or the would over lock her locker till she paid it and not let her work untill it was paid.
25, No, I don't consider strippers to be pimped, at least in the common understanding of the word. You can play word games about how strippers aren't treated well as independent contractors, how they have to pay to go on stage, how they "support" the club, but these are characteristics of other types of jobs, and the only reason to interpret this as being "pimped" is if you're purposely trying to insult them, IMO. Even under CA's insane legal definition where the security/driver who drives an escort to an appointment might count as a pimp, or an escort's live-in boyfriend where she pays the rent also might count as a pimp, strip clubs aren't considered pimps.
There are a shockingly high number of strippers who are ACTUALLY pimped, that is forced to work by their pimp and have to turn over all money at the end of the day, but that's different...
"... I felt the club was pumping them because the need to pay the house fees and tip out even if the club has a bad night and she didn’t make a dime ,,."
Off the top of my head that is not much different than an entrepreneur renting space in a shopping-mall/center and not paying rent if they don't make $$$/sales
I might have used the work in the rong context I will apologies to her next time I see her I used because she said she was trapped bc she needed the money I thought if you are trapped in a situation it would be some equivalent but if I’m rong I’ll man up. It piped in my head because I had read a post by pole dancer where she said something similar.
Working in a strip club doesn't mean you're pimped out. However, some strippers have pimps (strippers may call them "boyfriends"). This is how it works:
My girl pimps me out every time we go out to dinner and she pays. Damn, I got the top tonight. Wonder if I have to lick that pussy? She is fond of the clit flicking with my tongue I found out. Usually I bury my tongue deep.
In a traditional strip club, I wouldn't consider the dancers to be pimped. They are working on their own, and there are fees associated with the house, etc. However, a stripper could have a pimp who makes her work as an escort, and who takes a significant cut of her earnings.
So, no, strippers aren't pimped. It's possible for many folks to liken their jobs to "working for the man" - but that's more a figure of speech indicating you aren't getting your fair share.
Pimps take all the hoes money and in are in complete charge of their earnings and who they can and cannot fuck. Some ho strippers have pimps, but that is different. I don't have a pimp, I pay a house fee and tip out and the rest of the money is mine to do what I want with. A pimp would keep every dime I made and manage my earnings as his earnings, however he wants.
@ Nina I was under the impression that exploitation of a person who feels trapped, with no alternative, is the actual definition not how much, the coercion is the defining point. That is how I actually understand it.
They just aren't. It's the nature of shady independent contract, not pimping. Hair stylists also tip out and pay rent. I'm surprised you would think this, 25. If I didn't know better, I'd think this question was from Larry. :P
I'm just teasing. ;) but yeah. It's nothing like being pimped. It's just indepedant work. We use their facility, and the tipping system is actually so that we have some say and control in how their employees serve us.
25, a pimps take all the hoes' money, that's just how it works. It is another way of them to be able control the hoes. They usually will take them shopping, buy them nice clothes, sometimes even cars and rent out their own houses. Still, they collect ALL the money and manage it themselves. The gifts they may give the hoes are so that the pimp's "property" looks good and expensive and so the hoes stay happy. Not all hoes are trapped into it, many "choose" their pimp and "break themselves" (their words) and the pimp gets all the money and control. The hoes are their property. If someone is just taking a cut, they're not an actual pimp.
@NinaBambina, that's a great article. But what a sad ending. I really wanted all of them to live happily ever after together. Just a pimp and his hoes on the 'ho stroll. I know this will offend every woman reading this (and all the white knights), but being a pimp is like the ultimate male fantasy. I think we all dream about it from time to time.
There is one club in Detroit--and there could be others but one I know about that you have to have a booking agent and pay him to work there......in my mind you are in this instance being pimped......additionally if you miss a day of work regardless of the reason you have to pay the club and the agent before you can go back to work. I've never set foot in any club in Detroit and I never would in this one.
Warrenboy75 that is not uncommon around the country for clubs to fine girls who miss their scheduled shifts --- this has been the case at even the very low contact clubs I've worked at around the country. The Detroit clubs ran better by management often will fine dancers who no-show their scheduled shifts. At the club I work at now, they give me the option of making up a scheduled shift I miss instead of paying money, so I've never paid money for a missed shift. Doesn't correlate to pimps though.
As Nina wrote-- "control the hoes"and in my mind this is the heart of the matter.
I walked away from clubs years ago and stayed away for a handful of reasons.
I'm no psychologist, but I've always found the dynamic of who is really in control in the strip club interaction interesting because of the various perspectives. The dancers will almost always claim to be but from my own point of view except for the very few that can consistently prove they make money for the club and the club would take a hit $$$ if they left the dancers are more often prey than predator.
Nina we were posting at the same time so my comment was being typed prior to yours but in my mind when you start controlling the dancer and impacting her ability to work it is on some level being a pimp.....and the club I am talking about requires a position of a booking agent......wtf does any club need a booking agent to find dancers....why does he get a cut? Why if the dancer has a legit reason not to work does the agent need to be paid?
@Nina you missed my point just lake a lot of the posters here I wasn’t talking about pimps, my commentary was about being pimped staying within legal boundaries not being owned by a pimp rather about feeling helpless about a situation that you are in because you cannot take care of your responsibilities through other means and having to be in that situation. My remark was in sympathy for this individual rather than what is being discussed.
The way I see it you can be exploited if you have vulnerabilities, and some of these clubs do and you know it is true. My actual conversation was about being able to freely and consenting you make your choice to be a stripper rather than by being forced by circumstances to do a job you dislike. I suggested that she take some classes in a field she might find of interest and use that as a springboard to training, to be able to work in a place that paid her enough income to make her own choices rather than her choices be dictated by her need to do something she find difficult and objectionable.
To repeat I never said she had a pimp rather I said she feels like she is being pimped, and after our discussion a second time we actually agreed that my statement was not rong but she did take it the rong way.
@NinaBambina, what do you mean when you say you have a booking agent? How does that work? Do you need him/her? If you dumped your agent would the clubs still let you work? I've never heard of such a thing in the strip club context, except for pimps.
Burlington, in the past when I've had an agent they have simply helped me with employment verification etc... That's how I am able to get apartments/condos/cars etc. I worked at a club for years that had no agency represeating them and not much else was different. But having an agent representing you is just more security. I could ditch my agent if I wanted to and nothing between my club or my schedule would change, it just is nice having someone represent you in the club and in your professional life outside the club.
@NinaBambina, that's interesting. When you say employment verification and helping with cars and real estate transactions, do you mean because of citizenship issues? Or is it just because when you work in the sex industry, you have no real job references so they create fake ones for you? If it's the latter, I would think most dancers could really use someone like that. Hell, I think lots of people who have no connection to the sex trade whatsoever could use a connection like that, too. It it's real it sounds like a great service.
Interesting about booking agent. I hadn't thought of the difficulty getting approved for things for which you need to demonstrate a dependable cash flow.
Does it impact the amount you need to report to the IRS?
@BHF I would doubt any legitimate booking agent would create fake references more likely they verify employment through 1099s.
@ flagooner it would only impact what she reports as income less deductions if the agent was paid that to would be a legitimate deduction.
They pay to use the facility and its up to her to try to make money. I do agree that it's not really her fault if customers aren't coming in the door or customers don't have money. That's more the owners problem and might be a marketing issue. Likewise it's not the owner's nor managements problem what dancers work be because they can't control who shows up to audition and have to work with what they have comes through the door.
I guess with that said, is the faculty fee, even when business is slow, fair to be dancer? @teentyfive you're a good person to feel bad for her in that case. But she puts on makeup, gets dressed in a thong and heels, shows up, pays the fee, and takes her chances. It just a market reality that the only place the owners have left in the equation to squeeze are the dancers. The customers aren't inclined to part with any more cash, certainly less cash than 25 years ago, which suggests the market places less value on stripping than it used to.
@Dominic77. As a business owner I believe in fair practices that being said I have employed both subs and employees in the construction industry for over three decades. We have weather related issues often a few years ago I instituted a practice where if an employee showed up and it was a rain out they still received 3 hours paid. I believe the club owners would get more and better girls if the club had a slow night and didn’t hit a certain goal tipout and house fees would be waived for the night, room fees could still be charged as well as lap dance fees which are easily trackable that would encourage the dancers to show even on slow nights because they wouldn’t be worried that they would lose money.
Addition to that above
That would take away the pimping aspect in my mind because hey they are not the same as hairdressers and others who pay facilities fees it this case the onus would be on the club to provide the environment where there would be a stream of customers remember no girls=no customers \ treat the girls fairly happy employees thriving business.
It really has nothing to do with feeling bad for anyone fair business practices benefit everyone.
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There are a shockingly high number of strippers who are ACTUALLY pimped, that is forced to work by their pimp and have to turn over all money at the end of the day, but that's different...
Off the top of my head that is not much different than an entrepreneur renting space in a shopping-mall/center and not paying rent if they don't make $$$/sales
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImYci3uW…
So, no, strippers aren't pimped. It's possible for many folks to liken their jobs to "working for the man" - but that's more a figure of speech indicating you aren't getting your fair share.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procuring_…
http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=1326…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIN5aT0Y… (not South Park, jack beat me to it)
I walked away from clubs years ago and stayed away for a handful of reasons.
I'm no psychologist, but I've always found the dynamic of who is really in control in the strip club interaction interesting because of the various perspectives. The dancers will almost always claim to be but from my own point of view except for the very few that can consistently prove they make money for the club and the club would take a hit $$$ if they left the dancers are more often prey than predator.
The way I see it you can be exploited if you have vulnerabilities, and some of these clubs do and you know it is true. My actual conversation was about being able to freely and consenting you make your choice to be a stripper rather than by being forced by circumstances to do a job you dislike. I suggested that she take some classes in a field she might find of interest and use that as a springboard to training, to be able to work in a place that paid her enough income to make her own choices rather than her choices be dictated by her need to do something she find difficult and objectionable.
To repeat I never said she had a pimp rather I said she feels like she is being pimped, and after our discussion a second time we actually agreed that my statement was not rong but she did take it the rong way.
Does it impact the amount you need to report to the IRS?
@ flagooner it would only impact what she reports as income less deductions if the agent was paid that to would be a legitimate deduction.
They pay to use the facility and its up to her to try to make money. I do agree that it's not really her fault if customers aren't coming in the door or customers don't have money. That's more the owners problem and might be a marketing issue. Likewise it's not the owner's nor managements problem what dancers work be because they can't control who shows up to audition and have to work with what they have comes through the door.
I guess with that said, is the faculty fee, even when business is slow, fair to be dancer? @teentyfive you're a good person to feel bad for her in that case. But she puts on makeup, gets dressed in a thong and heels, shows up, pays the fee, and takes her chances. It just a market reality that the only place the owners have left in the equation to squeeze are the dancers. The customers aren't inclined to part with any more cash, certainly less cash than 25 years ago, which suggests the market places less value on stripping than it used to.
That's just reality.
That would take away the pimping aspect in my mind because hey they are not the same as hairdressers and others who pay facilities fees it this case the onus would be on the club to provide the environment where there would be a stream of customers remember no girls=no customers \ treat the girls fairly happy employees thriving business.
It really has nothing to do with feeling bad for anyone fair business practices benefit everyone.