failed txt OTC negotiation with a russian stripper, advice?
I live in NYC. Been on Tuscl, SCing and getting ITC extras 3 years now, but all OTC relations I've had so far was no $, nothing sexual, hanging out, or civie "I like you, lets be a couple" dates, again, $ never discussed. Even had a stripper sleep overnight in my house (there is nothing to steal) in the guest bed.I did once get a porn-star grade 21 year old with fake tits at my SC. She quit instantly saying stripping isnt for her (but she has a BP ad with her pic), but I did FS her ITC. We traded numbers.I asked to hang out, she then asked, "how much are you going to help me out with?", we negotiated $200 for 2 hrs. She then started going silent through out day, missed 1st hotel parking lot by 2 hours, I went home, then she called me out to a 2nd hotel (different one), I came waited 1 hour, ghosted, then I called it off, after I left, she started texting again, even called me begging to drive back, we spoke by phone, at that point I said, we agreed for 2 hours, by the time we are done, its so late in the night, we can't do it today. I never contacted her again. I'll find another sex worker who lives closer to me and has a less busy life. So if shes P4P, I think I know how to negotiate.
Anyways, I caught another new quasi-stripper at my SC. Off-the-plane russian. Russian girls IME are the most conservative, most $, least value girls in the SC. She had VERY BAD english skills. She didn't fully know how to give LDs, so I thought she must be a newbie, and maybe I can get something out of her. No sex friend, or civie GF (I am US born russian actually), or P4P fuck buddy. Getting dances, she DFKed without me asking, but pushed hand off pussy. I did 3x$20 dances. We traded numbers. Her number is her civie FB with her pic BTW. Most info private, but seems to be a "normal" person. This is the message log between me and her. I can't tell if this was even her, or her BF/pimp texting me, I wrote like it doesnt matter if it is her or her pimp.
08-03-17 09:39:17 AM Salata: hi nastia ita daniel from last night, how u doing?
***answers 12 hr later***
08-03-17 10:22:55 PM Nastya: Yes you like me, danial , when we can meet with you again ?!)
08-03-17 10:27:04 PM Salata: i want to see u again, when r u free?
08-03-17 10:27:57 PM Nastya: When do you want to met with me ?!)
08-03-17 10:30:08 PM Salata: i am free on saturday, what neighborhood do u live in NYC? i forgot
08-03-17 10:34:32 PM Nastya: I live in Manhattan. Study in Russia. And I need to pay for my university, if you can help me, I'll be glad of our meeting)
****I think now, I've been hit up for $ in minutes, shes just P4P****
08-03-17 10:39:42 PM Salata: do u have a place or i need to find a place in manhat? what donation do you want?
08-03-17 10:41:58 PM Nastya: No I don't have a place in Manhattan, It all depends on what you want to get?)
08-03-17 10:47:01 PM Salata: r u interested in girlfriend sex?
08-03-17 10:59:26 PM Nastya: I think it's better if it's sex with you)
08-03-17 11:05:13 PM Salata: are you single?
08-03-17 11:06:11 PM Nastya: Yes of course) and you ?!)
08-03-17 11:44:47 PM Salata: i am single, i would not be in a club if i had a gf
08-03-17 11:46:38 PM Nastya: Yes, I don't work there anymore, we can met with you when we won't
08-03-17 11:46:53 PM Nastya: Want
08-03-17 11:47:51 PM Salata: okay
***I'm busy today so I wait a day***
08-05-17 03:20:55 PM Salata: do u wanna hang out tomorrow?
08-05-17 09:23:52 PM Salata: hey nastya, im free tomorrow, i would like to meet u, are u free?
***answers next day***
08-06-17 11:34:38 AM Nastya: What time do you want to meet ?!
08-06-17 11:37:22 AM Salata: 2 pm, u live in manhat?
08-06-17 11:38:03 AM Nastya: Yes
08-06-17 11:38:23 AM Nastya: Why 2 pm?!
08-06-17 11:39:55 AM Salata: i live in queens, it takes 1 hr-1 hr 30 min to get to manhat by train
08-06-17 11:41:14 AM Salata: when do u want to meet?
08-06-17 11:48:07 AM Nastya: How much time you want to spend with me ?!
08-06-17 11:54:23 AM Salata: I dont know much about you. we met 10 mins at a club. u were hot. we had a little bit of fun. lets goto a starbucks or a panera near you, meet for 30 mins, & see how it goes
08-06-17 12:05:01 PM Salata: ?????
08-06-17 12:09:12 PM Nastya: I think we should discuss all the details
08-06-17 12:14:01 PM Salata: want me to call you?
****I wait 10 mins, then call, 1 ring then to voicemail that isn't set up, she must've hit ignore****
08-06-17 12:27:58 PM Nastya: I think it's bad idea, meet with you, sorry, we can meet in the club in Wednesday evening
Okay PLs, would you have handled the OTC convo any other way than I did?
When she mentioned $ for university, should I have responded the way I did asking what is her donation? Was this girl stupid enough thinking I'd give her a donation for a no-sex just friends date?
Was it wrong to suggest a not-a-hotel/not sex meeting? Is that what killed it?
I asked if she can host, and she said no. I'm not inviting a stripper IDK to my house. So her place, or hotel, is only choices.
Anything different I should have txted?
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Don't ask them when they want to meet. Don't ask if they are available. That is just spinning your wheels and will ultimately lead to flakeouts. Girls would rather accept your offered time than plan with you. Just say "Let's meet at 2:00pm Wednesday." If she wants to do it, she'll find the time.
The same goes for location. Just bite the bullet and buy the hotel room. Asking her if she can host makes her lose interest. Choose a hotel with a coffee shop if you want to meet there first. But you have to have everything squared away. After you bang her, if you feel there's chemistry, you can bring up non-hotel meets.
You also should have gamed her harder. These texts read like what you'd send if you were buying a used TV on Craigslist. I know you're.paying her, but you still have to flirt and charm them. Girls hate feeling like whores, even if they are.
Echoing what Digitech said "Can we meet for adult fun at hotel xyz at 2:00 PM on Thursday for $$$?" That's it! If she is interested at all, she'll come back with a counter proposal if needed.
She's all business and you don't sound like you're all business so that's not a good match. Think she read you as a needy lil bitch who would eventually fall in hard lust and become a stalker.
This girl's going to help you catch a nut for the right price. Don't make it more than that.
F****** coffee like it's a f****** real date what the f*** were you thinking?
The other advice is solid. You give her a time, day and place. If she wants the money she'll make it work or offer an alternate option.
Also be upfront about expectations for the date. Let her know what you want and expect. If she doesn't agree or is noncommittal, cancel the date.
@rh48hr Her stripper shit was obvious, because I told her I dont come to her SC, when it was my 2nd time this year there. The fact she said she will be a regular, too funny. She must have assumed I'll never be back since her new SC wasn't my reg SC. I thought I gave her a time, 2 PM, she then said "08-06-17 11:38:23 AM Nastya: Why 2 pm?!" like it was a no.
@Digitech I guess I should have been more "man" and given her a take it or leave it offer. She didn't offer a price or a menu, so I didn't offer her a price. Last P4P OTC girl, we did discuss price for time in great detail, this girl confused me by NOT giving a price. I didn't get the feeling she wanted to hook up, or she would be hitting me up for extra $ the whole way through the date "taking off my top is extra, $100 more, sex $500 more". I'm guessing from what all the PLs here say, just tell her a "time, location, yes or no?", then negotiate price IRL face to face OTC in hotel lobby, dont let her walk upto your room (or know its number) until the price is negotiated on the sofas in the hotel lobby?
To answer the question though, I've never negotiated specifics like that. If a price is agreed on, its done in person. Over text its a simple, "lets meet at blah place at blah time on blah day" if she starts wanting to get into the minutia my response is what hers was, "okay, lets just see each other at the club then." If I see her again we can chat again, but even then I'm probably not making a special trip and I'm certainly not going to get into the specifics. If I wanted carefully constructed service contracts I'd stay at work. We're both adults and she knows what I want just as well as I know what she wants. Sure, there's some risk in my approach and every now and again we're not on the same page, but usually its a minor issue.
But, I'm not hitting up chicks I spent 10 minutes talking to in the club for P4P. If we exchanged numbers in that time I'm assuming it was a personal thing and taking it that way. Which may get us to the root of the problem, which is that you don't seem to know what you want. If you go in thinking you're trying to date this girl, but you'll pay her to fuck her if you have to, she's gonna feel like a whore and you're gonna feel like a PL. IMO, you can't go in ambiguous. You can adjust as time goes by, but you gotta go in with a goal.
I agree, danfox/s88, you need to work on your texting (and posting) game. Keep your texts (and posts) short but sweet. Flirt with her (and us) -- don't make her (or us) feel whorish.
-->" Is that what killed it?"
I think what ultimately killed it is:
- The general excrucating complexity of talking to you had to have her already very wary, you already prying into whether she's single, etc.
- The lack of clarity on whether, if she put this time aside for you, you might simply meet her a5 panera and then decline and go home -- that is, total lack of clarity on any details at all, especially whether she'll be paid -- is enough to by itself to call it off
- Then, you call her without permission. WAAAAAAY the fuck over the line, that by itself should merit an instant and permanent decline, as well as her warning her friends (if she has any) not to deal with you.