MG-TOW -- PUA -- PUAHate -- MRA

https://www.puatraining.com/blog/how-to-…
I mostly don't go along with the above, too much posturing. Getting strippers off the clock and into bed is not especially difficult. Really more the opposite.

SJG

@mamisan "No wonder wife leave you, no wonder no Asian massage parlor attendant will yanky wanky you. Even ugly massage parlor attendant say no to San Jose guy."

ftw

Not sure what ANYONE'S point in this thread is. TLDR, TMLDR (too many links, didn't read), etc.. I knew once a long long time ago that the "PUA" movement had some steam, and I saw that book "The Game" hit the shelves with interest. I frankly don't think any of the advice there-in, or in any other similar genre, is inherently BAD or inherently GOOD, (except, of course, in one or another specific item here or there that I'm not conversant with), just like any other books in the self-help genre can be IDIOTIC or HELPFUL given the context. Therefore, I suspect, for example, that the right reader, in the right economic climate, with the right attitude, can make Napoleon Hill's "Think And Grow Rich" into a very precise blueprint for huge monetary success; similarly, I suspect, the wrong reader, or in the wrong climate or with the wrong attitude, can take the same book and get absolutely no beneficial change in his life at all. So too with the pick-up genre.

One thing I always want to say to the people who are interested in "figuring out" or "learning" how to "get" girls, is, that they aren't really interested in what makes girls (or women) operate. Rather, they're interested in what makes THE VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF HOT WOMEN WHOM THEY ARE INTERESTED IN operate, and in how to cause THOSE VERY FEW WOMEN to fuck them. I don't give a shit about whether or not MOST human females are interested in crap like Danielle Steele books because of reasons A and B or reason C or trouble with their daddy. I only care about the motivations behind choices of super-hot young-enough available chicks who are likely to fuck me. Often the PUA and pick-up world gets extremely side-tracked into finding out too much about those females who read Danielle Steele (for example), only later to find out that such books are really replacements for emotional connection sought out by undesirable women, undesirable on a LOT of fronts, to a LOT of people. Very few successful gymnasts who are now USF cheerleaders wallow in self-pity and read Danielle Steele to feel better about themselves. Sure, they have SOMETHING in common with the Danielle-Steele-reading undesirables; but that thing is so distant, so subtly connected, it's hardly worth finding out, IMO.

The last time I trusted a man who didn't drink was...fucking never. If man doesn't drink, the man cannot be trusted.

Clicked the boycottbitches link for the hilarious URL. Top article is whining about Jews. This is an entire web website for David Duke types that never get out of their mom's basement. Clearing my browser history now.

Now, I do not agree with this guy. I don't listen to his stuff and I take strong exception to his stuff. He is a figure on the Right.

But as I want to understand it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oybAUKZh…

When the Isla Vista shooting first occured, I looked to see what people were saying.

It is only now that I am finding people whom to some degree seem to support Rodger, or at least agree with some of his statements.

I believe that the Professional PUA Roosh V falls into this camp.

This Stefan Molyneux I have long taken exception to.

But at least here we can look and listen as we might wish, and disucuss.

SJG

Again, I do not at all go along with this Return of Kings, as for one thing, it promotes a right wing world view.

I only post this to be able to hold onto the links and to scrutinize it.

http://www.returnofkings.com/36135/no-on…

https://www.mediaite.com/online/what-is-…

http://www.pualingo.com/pua-hate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/puahate/

SJG

John Legend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YgmaAXP…

You probably should ho with right wing, since left wing is beta and cucks. Faggot.

Elliot Rodger Manifesto, 141 pages

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014…

I told someone who was a councilor at Fresno State about this and he called it a thesis.

SJG

Stefan Molyneux, someone I do not agree with, because he holds right wing positions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oybAUKZh…

Molyneux says he was going after the 10's, because he wanted to re-enact sexual humiliations.

http://www.chainmailandmore.com/

Molyneux says Elliot Rodger, short, slight, insecure, was aiming at 10's because his goal was to re-create sexual humiliations. Otherwise he just would have set his sights lower. But his goal was, "self humiliation", "to continue a life of being ignored and treated with contempt and treated with indifference by women." "So the goal of his sexuality was self humiliation, it was a masochistic drive, it was not actual desire for women who were out of his league."

Again, I have never agreed with Stefan Molyneux or with the MG-TOW or PUA movements.

SJG

University of California Spree Killer, Elliot Rodger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_…


Usually I don't agree with anything Stefan Molyneux says, the standard white male rightest line. But here, as he seems to have, like I, adopted Alice Miller's stance of always siding 100% with the child.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oybAUKZh…

Elliot Rodger Manifesto, 141 pages
http://www.survivorschat.com/board/index…

Now, I do not go along with this website, ReturnofKings. It is a right wing anti-feminist site. About this PUA Roosh V, I do not agree with him, but often I do find him extremely entertaining to listen to, because I can laugh at him.

http://www.returnofkings.com/36135/no-on…

Again, I do not agree with Roosh V.
http://www.rooshv.com/western-culture-po…

http://nypost.com/2011/08/10/a-single-gi…

Again I do not agree with ReturnofKings, or with PUA doctrines.
http://www.returnofkings.com/17084/debun…

Do not agree with this:
http://www.returnofkings.com/7877/the-me…

https://www.mediaite.com/online/what-is-…

http://jezebel.com/5906648/the-angry-und…

http://www.pualingo.com/pua-hate/

https://www.reddit.com/r/puahate/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gThKOR5F…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnT0CMwB…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7JwcDeX…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBvaVWdJ…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NIwS8np…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz8IxrTY…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfmK2vU2…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rmOF31V…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThpWSI7o…

most curious, bunch of videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZLUz4xz…

SJG

SJG is a complete fuckin' psycho and a homosexual!

Lol!

This is what I had expected would happen after the initial shock of the Elliot Rodger spree settled down. He has a fan club.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JblflIdX…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G_2i32q…

SJG

^

Are you the leader of his fan club or are you considered too creepy to lead that group?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh-fZrfb…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZZgEaQ4…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZciPOE8M…

And now these too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t58qiEwo…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1lTW9kE…

Barbara Walters interviews the father Peter Rodger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnT0CMwB…

SJG

TheeOSU I am not the leader of his fan club. If you think I am creepy, sorry but I can't help you.

SJG

Guy talks about:

Similarities between me and Elliot Rodger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz8IxrTY…

I have also noticed that it did not sound like Elliot Rodger was actually approaching girls or trying to go out with them. And especially with the sorority girls, it was not clear to me that he had much interaction with them at all.

They are a symbol, and the deliberately set themselves up to be this. It starts in high school.

SJG

Glen Campbell, Sioux Falls SD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zqyQN6N…

It is well known that Glen Campbell was in this session, 1962. We shouldn't hold it against him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QnEAmLD…

Bunny Ranch hiring quality control testers
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national…

Wildcat Brothel, Mina Nevada
http://www.wildcatbrothel.com/about.html

Nevada Brothels List
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_br…

Bump Tour, interesting idea, lots of driving. But many of these places are closed, some have even been torn down.
http://bumptour.com/index.html

The New Mona's Ranch, Elko
http://monasranchelko.com/about-us/

Jefferson Starship - Miracles live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbJ4Ws6N…

Jefferson Starship, Jane, live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPRN89El…

Normally I don't go along with much of anything Stefan Molyneux says. But when it comes to his analysis of the Isla Vista Shooter Elliot Rodger, I find what he says to be compelling, at least better than I have heard anywhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oybAUKZh…

Molyneux says that Elliot Rodger was not well bonded with any of his parents. ( Father, Stepmother, Birth Mother ). And he explains that had he been he would have been far better able to deal with all the bullies he encountered in his life.

And note that not at any time does Molyneux endorse any of the PUA or MGTOW doctrines, like Roosh V. does.

Okay, maybe so, maybe there is something to this bonding. And it is like John Hubner is talking about in his "Somebody Else's Children".

Okay, but things are as the are. If one has been influenced by some types of things, they are forever changed, no way to undo it. And is bonding really to be that much of an objective?

I say that Elliot Rodger need to complete his transformation and become the Red Dragon.

Now wait a minute, I already know what some of you guys are thinking. You're thinking Thomas Harris and his fictional serial killers. And maybe that is where I first got the idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhunter_…

Okay, but I don't really mean it the way he does.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bl…

Elliot Rodger needed to become something far greater than all the people who are 'bonded' to a parent.

And a large university might not be a very good place to do that!

In Collin Wilson's 1956, "The Outside", he shows great respect for William Blake.

SJG

Eric Clapton - Have you ever loved a woman?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBSaCAxJ…

One of Blake's Proverbs:

"Prisons are built with stones of Law, Brothels with bricks of Religion."

SJG

Went through a huge book of William Blake paintings and book illustrations. They don't have these.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_…

SJG

Antifa
https://www.amazon.com/Antifa-Anti-Fasci…

^^^ PSYCHO !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Oedip…

SJG

Steve Winwood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQz-_vUC…

You sure read some faggity literature don't you, @SJG?

Lol!

No, I just post on a forum which has some real creeps.

SJG

Figures you'd find your way to Roosh V. He's also rapey and lives in his mother's basement.

Roosh V is hilarious to listen to, but I do not agree with him.

*********************************************

Dealing with young women in college environments can be really hard. For one thing, most are still being supported by their parents. I am not saying that is wrong or anything, and I know it was the same for Elliot Rodger.

It is only after you are employed, outside of the college environment, and dealing with women who are also employed and trying to support themselves, that things change.

What Rodger found in college was that the women were unapproachable.

Outside of college, they throw themselves at you.

Now what about the college jocks or frat boys who get all the girls? Well that is just it, it is those who are favored by externally defined scripts, who get the girls. And even then, though they get something, it is usually still delimited by middle-class approved standards.

College, for many people, really sucks. And for increasingly larger numbers, it is out of the question or out of reach to start with.

SJG
SJG

Moriarty NM, Truck Stop with a Stripper Pole
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHlDo3Zj…

Lot Lizards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0B5aTzK…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lqxgv8bK…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EeJzpmk…

Steve Winwood, Eric Clapton - Can't Find My Way Home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT-SFgkV…

Steve Winwood - Dear Mr. Fantasy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DYC61Hz…

Steve Winwood - I'm a Man - Jools Holland Big Band
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5k-ofsL…

If Elliot Rodger were able to venture out further, with or without financing by his father, things could have been very different for him. He still had huge amounts to learn. But in that U Cal environment he never even had a chance. Somewhere else, he at least might have made it.

SJG

Thanks again to Founder for re-opening our old threads. Thinking more about this PaulDrake thread about Incels.

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Of course we know about these people and pay attention to them because of the spree shooters.

I joined this forum shortly after Elliot Rodger went off at UC Santa Barbara. I really was surprised by that and still don't know what to make of it. Of course I object to the anti-feminism and mysogeny which seems to underlie it.

One thing which is entirely self decided is that their celibacy is involuntary. Others could say, "Well I have tried A, B, and C, and still not gotten laid, so need to try D, E, and F, and if that does not work, then G, H, and I.

I guess they are seeing that others get laid via A, B, and C, and so that should be good enough. So they declare themselves to be involuntarily celibate.

But some decades back, no one would have looked at it that way. And then they blame feminism, which I find to be the strangest part of it at all. Feminism is what has given women permission to be fast moving.

Maybe in times past, the ordinary guy would have gotten fixed by peer groups, church groups, etc, to women who wanted to be married.

Now maybe they are less marriage interested, though they would never admit that. So they want a different type of guy, more the reckless image oriented type? Hard to say. So still not sure what to make of these Incels. Some of what they say I take strong exception to.

SJG


SJG

Erwin Kreyzig, Advanced Engineering Mathematics
https://www-elec.inaoep.mx/~jmram/Kreyzi…

These self identified Incels believe that they are being persecuted, and by young women. Hard for me to go along with that interpretation. But the women might be going more for cosmetic masculinity, jocks.

But the older pre-feminist era gave us young women who were only interested in marriage material. That would be different, but worse.

There are other problems in places like colleges, the narrow social environment. Change that and someone like Elliot Rodger would have been just fine.

SJG

TJ HK girl
http://hktijuana.com/assets/img/gallery/…

Robin Trower live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmoMb0gN…

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this member is widely mocked and considered at best a nuisance or at worst mentally unstable, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

^^^^^^^^ IMBECILE SPAMMER DETECTED

SJG

Kiss, Do You Love Me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ-GDObO…

Reflecting more about Elliot Rodger and this Incel self-identification, and the spree shooters. Elliot Rodger surfaced just as I was joining this forum, and I was really set back by it. But I guess there have been a total of 3, who use this Incel self-identification.

So long ago, marriage and courtship were prescribed by traditional authority. You could not just hit on girls, not on those with social status. There were rules, and most marriages were arranged.

Over time things have got loser and loser, and so with young women making their own decisions, their logic and their 'feelings' may lead them to a type of posturing toy boy. All hard to predict.

But I strongly disagree that feminism is the problem. And so while much of the tactical advice of the PUA's is very practical. I think it is obvious. But the overall rationalization for it I strongly disagree with.

So are these Incel's correct in claiming that they are unjustly being made into victims?

Well, if a guy approaches a girl and she rejects him, if she does it with excessive zeal and condemnation, then it is something like school bullying. Though I would still say that you cannot effectively deal with it that way.

If a guy is always getting turned down by girls, then I would say that there is something like prejudice, the making of judgments on the basis of sterotypes and incomplete facts in play. But I would still say that you cannot deal with it by addressing it that way.

The price we pay for a very informal society where young women can consent, is also that they have an arbitrary not prescribed by social conventions right to decline.

When this right to decline is used with excessive zeal and prejudice, then it is something like bullying and prejudice itself. So the way to address this though is not to challenge it head on, but more just to change social environments and to build new social environments.

Elliot Rodger had a lot to learn. But in a more open environment he would have done well. I suspect the same would be true for the other Incel Spree Shooters.

Feminisim is not the problem. But there are definitely normative social hierarchies and personality types, and a place like the University of California can be really negative.

Right after the Rodger's incident I met someone who was a council of students at Fresno State, and we talked about this at length.

Because Rodger's father was rich, Elliot could have easily been at some sort of inner city alternative arts school. It is also very different when most of the students are supporting themselves with off campus outside jobs. The outside world is less priviledged, but it is also more open.

And, there is room for creating more institutions.

Would Rodger have done will in an occult setting?

Blazing Star OTO, Oakland CA

Symbolic Dimensions of the Gnostic Mass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENpzzIVD…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENpzzIVD…

SJG

AMLO Elected in Mexico
https://www.democracynow.org/2018/7/3/me…

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this member is widely mocked and considered at best a nuisance or at worst mentally unstable, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

^^^ You forgot to mention that he's creepy as fuck and a twat.

SJG, what do you think about the redpill movement?

DC9428, thank you for posting that, and largely I agree with you.

Remember that the interpretation that their celibacy is involuntary is being made by these Incel's themselves. Others could just as well say that they have not yet done what is necessary to get laid.

Especially because Elliot Rodger wrote so much and made his videos while driving his car, it seems to me that he was feeling that he was being unfairly oppressed, being made into the target of prejudice.

So hiring an escort, or going to some other place, would not have corrected this. His perception is that other guys are getting laid, without such things. So he felt entitled to such.

My own view is that there really is not any where near as much sex at these 'party schools' as it often looks like there is. And when it is there, it is a certain contingent, and not necessarily jocks either.

It sounds like you had already recognized that life outside of college could be very different. I don't think Rodgers knew that.

These Incel's are claiming themselves as the victims of prejudice. Prejudice is always based on stereotype and the making of judgements about people with very incomplete information. I believe that there is some legitimate basis for this feeling. But I disagree with their interpretation about it.

The Incels are blaming young women and feminism. I do not go along with this. First of all, there are many strains of feminism. Some are moralistic and anti-sex. But this is not the norm. For the most part, feminism just gives women the ability to do whatever they want, and not to worry about what other people will try to label them.

And then of the claim that the women are being prejudiced, I think that attributes to them more individual agency than they actually deserve. I did not understand this when I was the age of Elliot Rodger, but I now see young women as being primarily herd animals. They aren't prejudiced because they don't even have the individual agency to consider that.

Now what I would agree with about these Incels is that they are living in a social environment which denies them social standing, legitimacy.

In part this is always going to be true at full time oriented schools because most people, like Rodger, are being supported by their parents. So it is an extension of adolescence.

And my first glimpse of how much different things can be when you are out of college started right away, as soon as I was out. All you need to have is a job and the women are all over you. Totally different from college. And they are aggressive, and they are possessive.

So they say that most adolescents will pick a career similar to what their parents do. Rodger, an English Major, I could very easily see becoming a screen writer, or a film maker of some sort. If he were going to some small arts school, maybe in a big city, and if he were also working part time, I believe that he would have been well liked and would have had girls climbing all over him.

But at UC, with these Joe Cool types all around, with their extremely contrived 'laid back' personas, it would be murder. Rodger has no claim to anything other than that himself, and mostly it is about socio-economic status. Rogder had the rich father, but he is still not of the normative type for that sort of a school. Really tough.

There need to be other types of school. Too much is given up and too much has to be endured, just to go with the standard type. And education needs to be ongoing and life long, not just for a few years. And it works better when people have other kinds of work and life experience.

SJG

I don't like the whole PUA thing at all. A lot of those men are bitter for not being able to smash bitches so they turn to trying to convince/beg bitches into fucking them. They're pussies.

You can meet bitches anywhere. The gym and grocery store are probably the best places. Just talk to them when they check you out.

I saw some of those MG-TOW videos on Youtube and they're batshit crazy. Their problem is they don't know how to handle bitches, and celibacy is never involuntary. Im far from the best looking guy out there but I have no problem attracting bitches. But I have a baby face, work out and tattoos so, certain bitches like that.

PUA's pride themselves on being able to get girls anywhere anytime. Where I break with them is with their interpretation. They talk like they are pulling one over on the women, or that they are defeating feminism.

MGTOW's speak to some harsh experiences, but I still say that these are all movements of the right, and it is the guy's own right wing views which are causing the problems.

SJG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIxIFm1b…
The Left & Right-Hand Paths

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh03bruH…

San Jose Guy, I agree with you on that. I think they act like there's a conflict between the sexes, there isn't . They're complementary

PhatBoy99 +20

SJG

This thread and the one mentioned in it, so much better than dealing with the girls in the college environment.

But I had to make it to the point of finding out myself. Some do not make it.

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

SJG