Reading:
Marriage Markets: How Inequality is Remaking the American Family amazon.com
And these authors also have:
Red Families v. Blue Families: Legal Polarization and the Creation of Culture amazon.com
Probably I only partially agree with these authors. More about this after I read more. But they have referenced, which is quite interesting: theatlantic.com
SJG
I got another book that might be up your alley "The Gentlemens Guide to the Underground Mexican Boys Clubs "
FU Shailynn.
FU twentyfive
SJG
Funniest joke on the internet,
SJG went into a strip club !
that's the joke
June Carbone Discusses the Emergence of Family as a Marker of Class at Hofstra Law School youtube.com
Red Families Vs. Blue Families w/ Author June Carbone youtube.com
Culture Clash: Surprising Truths about How Families are Formed in the United States w/ June Carbone youtube.com
SJG
Funniest joke on the internet,
SJG went into a strip club !
that's the joke
"How I Got Thrown Out Of Every Strip Club in San Jose" A novel about front room friendliness and taking off my pants, because I love to show off. BySJG
"The Anarchists Cookbook " A novel about mixing psychotropic medications with moms gravy. by SJG
^^^^^^ got any more info about those books, they sound good.
SJG
Funniest joke on the internet,
SJG went into a strip club !
that's the joke
SJG you'd enjoy "Raping Unconscious Women So They Enjoy It."
The joke is on anyone who thinks he's actually been to a strip club.
^^^^^ Quite a peanut gallery we have here!
June Carbone and Naomi Cahn are saying that our society is being changed by the expanding wealth gap. They are saying that women are facing a huge deficit of suitable marriage partners.
They are also saying that to avoid trapping women in bad situations, that they must have access to contraception and abortion, and that this has to be publicly funded.
They are saying that if you are not white, or if you are minority, then the odds start to get very high that your only info about contraception was high school sex ed, and that you have been exposed to one of these abstinence only programs.
But to function in this world, women must have good access to contraception and abortion.
And then if a woman has very low chances of gaining a stable and workable marriage, and economic stability, then she has no reason not to get pregnant and carry to term. And this perpetuates the increasing stratification.
SJG
Ralph M. Lewis, actually quite good. youtube.com
This has a man I knew. Sadly, now deceased. youtube.com
Carbone and Cahn wirte on page 188,
"American marriages are less stable than European cohabitations; the instability rather than the lack of a ring is what effects children."
And they are citing a study based on a 3 year long federally funded marriage promotion program, finding that it had absolutely zero effect.
These two authors are saying that our Family Law system has completely broken down, as the assumptions about families are no longer at all relevant. They don't see any real solution coming, but they do want to fix things so that parents are investing in children. Otherwise, as most of this is driven by economics, we have the perpetuation of economic stratification.
Of course I find these authors way too conservative, but this is all still very interesting to me.
SJG
News Flash: Steve Bannon was influenced by the notorious fascist occultists Julius Evola and Rene Guenon, and related groups of reactionary Catholics.
[Talk Gnosis] An Introduction to Martinism youtube.com
[Talk Gnosis] Martinism & Gnosticism youtube.com
French Occult and Gnostic Masters, Occult Paris, Tobias Churton ( always quite a character ) youtube.com
June Carbone and Chan have also written amazon.com
And Carbone is also an author on some Family Law texts.
Doesn't seem to deal with Inheritance Law, and her works should be connected to that.
She shows how increasing economic stratification has left women in bad straights, and that our antiquated system of Family Law discourages investment in and bonding with children.
SJG
What happened in the early 1600s to explain the R+C furor? What was the manifestos, what did they say, who was behind them & what did they lead to? youtube.com
i see you’re still angry about the restraining order your ex-mail order bride took out on your psycho ass. what did you expect when you ran up her credit cards, ruined her credit, and stole all the money out of her purse. all so you could go get drunk and spend her money on whores. call my secretary and set up another appointment. you have the number
June Carbone and Naomi Cahn are trying to save the middle-class family from itself.
Of course this is a hopeless situation. Do these authors know this? I think they do.
But what they want is to try to protect children, as the current state of affairs discourages investment of time and energy in children.
There has been expansion in the ranks of well off men. But the middle and below has really been hurt. The well off men can benefit from changes in Family Law and the uses of prenuptial agreements. So the risks of marriage are lowered.
Not that many well off women, but for those that are, they are in demand, and they appreciate the privilege of being able to marry a man who makes more than they do.
But for everyone else, things are really tough. In marriage or cohabitation, both parties are risking loss of money and their children.
These two authors seem to want to reduce the collateral damage and offer more protection to children.
But do they want to give children outside public support, and make children into persons instead of chattels?
I'll finish with this book and then read their earlier one about Red and Blue Families.
SJG
This looks good, though mid 90's
Jennifer L. Hochschild amazon.com
Jennifer L. Hochschild is not related to Arlie or Adam
This book is in high demand and I think well worth reading to understand the dire plight our nation is in: amazon.com amazon.com
you’re treading on thin ice san_jose_guy talking about children. you know that the court order and the terms of your parole prohibit you from having any contact with children
Carbone and Cahn reference:
June Carbone, U Minnesota law.umn.edu
Naomi Cahn, George Washington U Law School law.gwu.edu
They are really showing how economic stratification is changing everything. Today women in the middle third don't want to marry, as they know that that could mean attacks against their earnings and problems maintaining custody of their children.
Previously only in the bottom third was there this problem.
And for men, likewise, those in the middle third face bleak economic prospects, where as previously it was only those in the bottom third.
SJG
Carbone and Chan talk about this Joan C. Williams and this concept of the hard living.
Williams's books look interesting, heard interviews with her before.
They also talk about the D. P. Moynihan Report Report, 1965, which angered everyone.
SJG
A Modern Gnostic View on the Purpose of Life youtube.com
"Man is a rope stretched between the animal and the Overman -- a rope over an abyss."
This Charles Murray, sees the world as women making men comply with societal expectations in order to get their pussies.
Yes I have seen this. Its like Jackie Gleason on the Honeymooners. Its like real people I know too.
But what Charles Murray doesn't know is that today the women most likely to end up with workable and lasting marriages are the ambitious college students who avoid relationships and play on the hook up culture, and end up being able to marry similarly ambitious men, totally discrediting the conservative moral view.
SJG
Lori Graves playing Pirates Of The Caribbean on the Lowrey Organ youtube.com
The American Revolution with Yale's Joanne B. Freeman youtube.com
I dunno, I heard on TUSCL that the ambitious guys tend to wait until she's 40 or so and then start going to strip clubs to pursue 18/19 year-olds. When she has a nice job, too, she doesn't even get alimony.
Carbone and Chan are looking at how things have changed. For those in the top income third, there are more men than women, and the women are highly sought after and have lots of power and they have the ability to make it work.
For those in the bottom third, marriage almost does not even exist any more. For the middle third, it is tough. The women stand a lot to lose in marriage, if it does not work,. And the chances of this are high. So many opt not to marry.
So my point above, to the Charles Murray's who blame poor people for their bad morality, Carbone and Cahn show that it is these ambitious college girls who play the hook up scene to avoid relationships, who when they have completed their schooling and want to settle down, they have it the way they've wanted. So it is not the women who remain chaste who have the best chances of working marriage. Quite the opposite.
It used to be the most educated women who were least likely to marry. Not it is the exact opposite.
It is all about money, and the high income wife is then prized.
And from page 15, "red states have more religious and conservative elites and a working class that attends church less than they do while blue states have more secular elites and a working class that is more religious than those with higher incomes."
Carbone and Chan are answering conservative moralists, and their charge that it is the wealthy elite that is leading our society away from marriage. This is not true. The wealthy elite is more likely to marry and more likely to have it work. It is those in the middle and those in the bottom who are less likely to marry, and because they see that it is not likely to work and that the costs of marital disaster are very high.
SJG
Lori Graves playing Pirates Of The Caribbean on the Lowrey Organ youtube.com
The American Revolution with Yale's Joanne B. Freeman youtube.com
still angry about the restraining order your ex-mail order bride took out on your psycho ass. what did you expect when you ran up her credit cards, ruined her credit, and stole all the money out of her purse. all so you could go get drunk and spend her money on whores.
I would still rather marry a trailer park girl I met at Wal-Mart than Megyn Kelly.
Agreed, but then neither you nor I sound likely to make it into the top third. And the chances of our marriages succeeding are going to be less than it is for these highly ambitious college girls who avoid relationships and play the hook up scene until they have completed their schooling and are ready to zero in on their selected successful man.
This is what Carbone and Chan's book is about. It is not moral failings which are causing strife and a very high rate of divorce and out of wedlock births, it is economic stratification.
SJG
Speak for yourself, man! I'm in the top third, I just spend it all on strippers. Don't assume my income from the cat food and cardboard box!
what's the matter san_jose_guy? can't face the truth? well that's always been obvious. no marriage of yours could ever succeed. not because of any made up academic bullshit that you spew but because you would be part of that marriage. that alone would doom it to failure just like every other aspect of your miserable wast of a life. a life of completely devoid of meaning
Yes ppwh, that's a good one.
But conservative moralists are decrying the decline of marriage and blaming educated elites. But in fact, these are the ones most likely to marry and most likely to have it work.
Lower income women are less likely to marry and less likely to have it work, even though they will have conservative values. It is all economics and increasing stratification.
SJG
But conservative moralists are decrying the decline of marriage and blaming educated elites. But in fact, these are the ones most likely to marry and most likely to have it work.
Not sure that it's actually working for the educated elites so much as that they see it as an economic arrangement where there is mutually assured destruction in their social circles. So, he lets it go that it's a sexless marriage and visits strip clubs, while she gives him the golden pass because she's getting with guys with higher testosterone levels and could give a fuck less what he's getting into.
Agreed that being poor makes it real and the incentive to keep up with appearances is lessened. Meanwhile, the resentment of different monetary priorities when there isn't much to go around would create friction.
I can't speak for conservative moralists, though. I think those types were called Pharisees back in the day and weren't especially well-received by separation of church and state types like Jesus.
I'm not jealous of these married economic elites. And your points are good.
I don't really share the world view of this Carbone and Chan.
But she is talking about what can be determined statistically, that these elites are marrying and their marriages seem to work. And these are the women more sexualilzed from the hook up culture.
The issue is that marriage is disappearing for everyone else and this is causing strife and problems for children. It is increasing economic stratification, making classes.
Conservatives blame morality of the poor. But it is the poor who have the most conservative morals.
SJG
Dr PHIL you attack San Jose Guy because DEEP INSIDE you know he is better than you. You are a FAILURE in life.
All you can do is make false accusations and weap over your sad life. Nobody likes you. AND I AM THE SPIRIT OF VENGEANCE COME TO RAIN HOLY HELL ON YOU!!!
Our politics has in large measure been run by these conservative moralists who say that the poor are morally defective and that LBJ's War on Poverty is a cause of this.
So our system is entirely based on blaming the poor. And TUSCL is full of this too.
Carbone and Chan are refuting this.
But no, I don't want to be a married elite. And I don't believe that the middle-class family is a good thing. I say we need to be protecting children from it.
SJG
I thought conservatives blamed statism run by narcissists and sociopaths and wanted to help the poor lead fulfilling lives. We must read different news sites.
Conservatives blame statism, but this is only the statism which benefits the poor. The statism which benefits the rich, they love.
Conservatives blame the morality of the poor, and say that that is why they are poor. It is the basic argument that welfare is bad for poor people. This has been with us for a long time, but in the last 3 decades it has intensified.
Conservatives may say that they want the poor to lead fulfilling lives. But really our society depends upon scapegoating the poor.
So Newt Gingrich wanted to end welfare.
And the 1992 Democratic Convention, Bill Clinton said he wanted to "End welfare AS WE KNOW IT." ( emphasis added )
And yes, making big changes in what we have sounds good.
But what Clinton finally did sign, just shoves people off of welfare.
About Clinton-Gingrich amazon.com
Carbone and Chan don't get into all of this, as they are looking at marital trends today.
They are seeing marriage really falling apart, except for the elites. And they are refuting what the conservative moralists are saying, especially Charles Murray, that this is because of low morality on the part of the poor.
SJG
Talk about Andrew Cherlin en.wikipedia.org
Going to look at this, but he has newer books amazon.com
Carbone and Chan don't really go along with this guy either.
SJG
Debunking the Gurus of Personal Finance !!! Everyone should listen to this! kpfa.org
Drawing from this Andrew Cherlin and others, Carbone and Chan are saying that marriage has turned into a consumer status symbol for the upper 3rd.
It was always tenuous at the bottom, but now it is disappearing in the middle too.
They call people who don't go to college 'working class'. So someone studied working class courtships in 1960, and found that they were brief and sexual. And marriage resulted from pregnancy.
It is still this way today, except that the marriage usually doesn't happen. Basically the women are looking at a guy who has very limited employment prospects, and generally is not that interested in it. And so they know it will hurt them more than it helps them. So especially if religion is in play, they will have the child, but stay single. Adoption is used less and less.
But the sexual restraint is not really that much less than before. Its just the marriage really is not an option. Women don't marry men who have zero or poor employment prospects.
So in the 1900's 1/2 of women who graduated from college never married.
And it had been that college educated women were the least likely to marry. Now that has completely reversed, marriage being a status symbol it is college educated women, often with graduate degrees and on high income tracks and having played the hook up game, who are most likely to marry.
SJG
Yes, this looks good, but there is another one I am also trying to find.
Anyway, Carbone and Chan talk about how much is invested in the children of the well off. They are talking about the tutors and athletic coaches and the SAT test prep. This is how they see it.
Like I said, their views are too conservative for me. I don't see it that way.
Like I told someone, "Kids live under the whip!"
I meant the local children of the well off.
But mostly Carbone and Chan are trying to take about the logic of the Right, like Charles Murray, and this they do well.
SJG
Dave Bruebeck
I bet SJG would find therationalmale.com interesting.
??
Thanks SJG
Joanne Freeman American Revolution youtube.com
Lots of discussion of the conservative James Q. Wilson en.wikipedia.org
And also of one I especially find idiotic, Barbara Dafoe Whitehead americanvalues.org
Rollo Tomassi goodreads.com
not in libraries, not surprising.
Much Mens Rights or MGTOW stuff is anti-feminist and/or libertarian. As such, I don't agree with it. Need to look at this guy's stuff.
Lots of videos youtube.com
SJG
Discussion of The Rational Male - Rollo Tomassi youtube.com
still reserving any judgments about this
SJG
This looks like it might be funny:
Red Pill Date (the making of a MGTOW) youtube.com
SJG
^^^^^ about Red Pill Date video, it is very funny, but I largely don't agree with it.
SJG
@san_jose_guy. there's only one reason that your ex-mailorder bride was unhappy in marriage. that reason was YOU psycho boy. don't project her misery to other women or to the institution of marriage. the fault was all yours
Thanks to FutureTrackStar for telling me about rationalmale and Rollo Tomassi.
Now that I have listened to him, I do find it interesting. But I do not agree with him.
Like so many, he has taken the position that Feminism is the enemy. I do not agree with this. I see it as reactionary and based on misunderstanding.
I do though find him interesting to listen to, as I do PUA's, MRA's, and MG-TOW's, though I do not agree with them.
Rollo Tomassi interview youtube.com
SJG
SJG is a complete fuckin' psycho! And also a homosexual.
Is it likely that Dougster can ever be thawed out and reanimated? I for one doubt it.
SJG
So again reviewing some of the interesting references from June Carbone and Naomi Cahn's "Marriage Markets" 2015
So we have "Unequal Democracy" amazon.com
Who Wants To Marry A Soul Mate stateofourunions.org
Will Women Marry Down dailycaller.com
and of course Charles Murray
SJG
Cannonball Adderlyl, 1963 live in Germany youtube.com
SJG
Mike Pence, Tom Price and Tobacco Industry democracynow.org
Who's the gay fucker that started this thread?
Gaffigan and Txtittyfag
SJG
Degree and career ambitious girls at prestigious colleges often don't want relationships, car key wallet dating, just some hookups.
SJG
Katherine S. Newman, on campus safety, 2008 youtube.com
Why 20-Somethings are Moving Back Home youtube.com
Katherine Newman - America's "missing class" presentation youtube.com
Elliot Rodger The Virgin Killer 2014 Isla Vista killings Documentary youtube.com
The Secret Life Of Elliot Rodger 2020 FULL Interview youtube.com
Channel 4 Elliot Rodger The Virgin Killer Full Documentary youtube.com
I think these books suit your situation better:
"How to Create Natural Lighting When You're Locked in a Basement With No Windows"
"How to Make Gourment Meals Using Only Hot Pockets and a Microwave When Your Mom Isn't Home Because of Bridge Night at the Senior Center"