OT: Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments?

SJG: "Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments?"

Compared to what? Your faggity little gay only church?

Millenials couldn't learn a goddamn in any forum.

Millennials are sure as fuck alot smarter than you, skihomo.

With traditional colleges and universities, of course their is pressure due to the academic schedule. And not everyone does well under this.

But their are also social issues. The more prestigious the school is, and the more it is full time students living in on or off campus dormitories, the narrower the socio-economic base it is drawing from.

So this is why I started with Elliot Rodger, a guy who found the situation intolerable and just lost it.

We hear more about school shootings at high schools.

https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Ro…

What this author does a very good job of explaining is that school shootings don't occur in inner city ethnic neighborhoods where you do have high crime rates, and where there often are lots of guns in schools. Rather, they happen in these exurban whitetopia monocultures, where the pressure just gets to be unbearable and some people just lose it. Say like in Columbine Colorado.

In a multi racial and economically diverse school, there are social niches which people will find, but not so in a monoculture.

Now are colleges the same way? We do also have more and more of these sorts of shootings at colleges.

So you can say whatever you want about Elliot Rodger, but clearly he was long suffering. I say that for everyone who does something as extreme and destructive as what he did, there are thousands more suffering just as much.

So maybe colleges and universities just suck. I think most people already know that high schools are a serious malady.

So what is the alternative? Well it would have to be some sort of smaller alternative schools, or just some kind of supervised independent study.

Right after Elliot Rodger, I told someone who was a councilor at a state college about Karen Neuman's book and about how those in more varied and open environments can do better. For a college it would be one with more part time and older students, and more students with less privileged back grounds.

I mean, you listen to Elliot Rodger, he is a guy living in a glorified high school social environment. Sure, what he did was wrong, and he did lots of things to make the situation worse for himself. But we still should see that such schools are a negative environment.

So as I see it, the objective of all schooling should be to teach you to educate yourself. 4 years for a degree, maybe another 4 for a doctorate, that still cannot teach you all you need to know. Education needs to be life long, and it needs to be self directed, and I say that this should start as early ass possible and be supported life long.

SJG

Reading the article it seems the problem is the coed environment, which is what, a recent development in the last 100 years or so? 'Traditional' would be for same sex groups, social circles, and schools.

Yeah, and the dude (subject of the article) is a butthurt (entitled) loser.

Sometimes I wonder if society hasn't swing too far and too fast in the name of social progress? Maybe the tried and true traditionalism has a point? And maybe @rickdugan is correct and men and women can't simply be friends.

My high school had a strict dress code. If girls had been able to wear shorts shorts, I probably would have enjoyed it a lot more.

On the other hand in college I had a chemistry class with an assigned seat just above a group of girls like stadium seating in a cinema. I swear they had hot legs and I couldn't concentrate on what the teacher was saying at all. I thought about asking to be moved up closer but just forgot about it. I did enjoy the view.

Well yes, today most colleges are coed. And I know that relations with the young women was an issue for Elliot Rodgers. But I don't consider this to have been a negative thing. I don't think he was asking for a single sex school either.

I don't think his calling of the young women 'sluts' was in anyway warranted. He was just angry about the sorts of power they were holding, and that they seemed closed to him. And I do understand that he did a great deal to ensure this.

And yes, Rodger's had a very well off father, worth $250 Meg. Elliot could have gone to any school he wanted to, or anywhere else for that matter.

Nominally he was an English Major at the University of California. But in fact he was no longer taking classes. Listening to his video messages, he certainly seemed smart enough to have done very well.

His main interest seemed to be making his video messages, and his main audience seemed to have been his father.

Now we can condemn Rodgers for what he did, and we might say he was a 'looser', but I don't think that is constructive in any way whatsoever. The man is dead, and for everyone who does something like he does, there are 10,000 more suffering like him, and at similar colleges. So no, we don't gain anything by pointing a finger of blame at him.

He needed to be in a different environment, some place which is not a well-off mono culture, someplace not dominated by sororities and fraternities, or other restrictive social clubs.

Elliot was well-off, far more like the mono culture than different from it. But still, he was not really part of it.

In his video messages, he laments his low social status. People think he is a racist, an elitist, and a misogynist. And taking what he says at face value, yes, that is how he comes across. But I think he was just expressing his pain and lamenting his condition. Despite having the designer sun glasses and the fancy car, he was treated like a nobody. At least this is how he saw it. And as I know, this fixation on indicators of social status is pretty much standard in the LA metro.

Why was this so, Rodgers an outcast? Interesting, and a very open question. But I feel that he would have done better in a less mono culture environment, like one of the State Universities, or starting at one of the Community Colleges, where there are more part time students and more employed students. This is what I told a friend who is a councilor at Fresno State.

Or just letting his father send him on a long trip to somewhere, anywhere, and doing anything he wanted. In the more open environment, and losing some of his privilege, he would find his own way and his own place. Sometimes another country and another language does it for people. Someplace where he always going to be seen as an outsider anyway, and so people make allowances and accept him anyway,

Sounds like the birth mother did not stick around long. And Elliot disliked his step mother. He expressed different ideas in his videos, but mostly it seemed like he wanted to get a reaction out of his father. So we have to look at his final acts as a variety on suicide.

So when I talk about traditional colleges, I am not speaking of the single sex. I mean with face to face classes, schedules, assignment, and examinations. This made sense long ago. But today, with wide spread literacy and highly disseminated books and Internet communications, do these sorts of Universities really make sense?

The only people who really learn, are the ones who want to. And so supervised independent study starts to make sense.

And then this could be supplemented with some sorts of occasional face to face meetings.

For many people, hooking up with a counter culture of one sort or another makes all the difference for them. And then others have had to be in wars, or gotten into revolutions, or done really unusual things.

The father probably just wanted his son to 'normalize', and so he sent him to a well liked regional university, where most of the students are coming from out of the immediate area, and from well-off families. Rather like a child care center. And it is not the most extreme, it is moderate.

So we have had more of these kinds of spree shooters in high schools.

About high school:

https://www.amazon.com/Jocks-Burnouts-So…

https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Capitali…

Both of these are most interesting.

According to Karen Neuman, though these high school shootings are rare, they happen more often, not in high crime rate areas, large number of guns in schools areas, or with students that have records. They happen the most in white exurban mono culture areas, and done by students that have clean records.

So are colleges now same sorts of things? I would say yes, at least the common type which Elliot Rodgers was attending.

And are such schools the best way to get an education? I would say that it would be indeed very rare situations where they would be that good at all. Education needs to be self directed and life long.

Those most common sorts of schools are just an extension of adolescence. But if you have not graduated from one, you are still likely to be looked down upon by those who control the corridors of power, because they have graduated from such.

SJG

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Wh…

So this Charles Whitman, 1966, U Texas Austin, killing his wife and mother, and then killing three people in taking over the tower, and then locking himself on the 28th floor observation deck, and killing 11 more people at long range. After 96 minutes, police shot and killed him.

Is this the first one of these school shootings? America's first lone nut? No, this was after Lee Harvey Oswald.

Did well in the Marine Corps, good conduct medal, also good marksmanship.

He was married, he was a Mechanical Engineering student at U Texas Austin, grades were just minimal, so Marine Corp terminated his scholarship, and so he had to go to North Carolina to finish up his 5 year enlistment.

In 1964 honorably discharged from Marines, went back to U Texas Austin, as Agriculture Engineering Major. Also worked as bill collector, bank teller, and with railroads.

Tall building is the tower he fired from.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c…

He had just bought some cans of Spam, probably for when he was to be holed up in the tower.

Deranged Killers: Charles Whitman (2009)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx6veJsx…

Wounded lots more than those he killed.

SJG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OON81IJ9…

SJG

A very large school, U Texas, the tower shown in the center of the screen:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2844271,…

SJG

From University Ave:

https://www.google.com/maps/@30.2868736,…

If only Charles Whitman would have just pointed the gun at his father and then pulled the trigger. In the US right now, there are around 300 parricides per year, making for about 2% of the general homicide rate.

Compared to what Whitman actually did do from the tower at U Texas Austin, that would have been nothing. No one would have ever shed any tears over his father.

Either way, what we need is to be able to have justice, before it goes to killing. Charles Whitman didn't need any second chance, he needed a first chance. And so the way of getting him this, under the law, would be simply to do what nearly every other industrialized nation has done, make it extremely difficult to ever disinherit a child of yours. And then in such cases of clearly criminal abuse, make civil damages suits work. Stand with the survivors, not with the perpetrators. Make the perpetrators pay. Don't let them exit with money or assets. Who is working on this?

This is why I helped to put a Pentecostal Daughter Molester into San Quentin, so that the survivors would be vindicated, and the perpetrators and their church would be humiliated. But actually taking the next step and getting this into the civil courts still hasn't happened yet, and likely will not.

SJG

John Fogerty - Knock On Wood (Live at Farm Aid 1985)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyjsMy4G…

Bruce Springsteen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNu54cX6…

Eric Clapton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0T12EVXd…

David Bowie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf8KTeob…

Looks like san_jose_fag's interests are branching out. It used to just be serial killers, necrophilia, and the occult. But now he is picking up mass murders as an interest.

Well as a Marxist that's the next step. Commies killed more people than anyone else by millions

vinceygirl didn't actually serve in the military. He just lied and said he did.

I never read the links or SGJ long posts. Well maybe one or two lines.
I think Bernie Sanders won the ME generation vote just talking to young people. Hey, if they all believe all this stuff Bernie promised was really free, I might be able to sell a few bridges. I could even tell them that Bernie will take half the profits and give it away to help with free college education and they might believe it.

If college students value travel and socialism and the government taking more in taxes then I suggest they live in a socialist country in South America called Venezuela where socialists have been in control for serveral years. That would probably be more educational than whatever they are learning now.

Caution, they might die or get mugged visiting the country.

On the other hand, if the democrats want open borders, and everyone from South America can come here no restrictions after a democrat becomes president, they may get their wish come true in just a few years.

Bernie is the perfect example of how socialism "works" for those at the top. He's worth millions, owns three houses, and under investigation for fraud.

Yeah, if someone needs to grow beyond what they were forced into being in the family of origin, they are not likely to find traditional colleges to be supportive places.

Elliot Rodgers and Charles Whitman, and lots more.

Colleges are culturally narrow, still centering on middle-class doctrines, whereas the outside world has lots of cracks and fissures in it.

So they need to get out, but they also need ways to be able to continue their education. And education needs to be lifelong anyway.

SJG

Yeah, if someone needs to grow beyond what they were forced into being in the family of origin, they are not likely to find traditional colleges to be supportive places. These are culturally narrow places, not radical places.

So for every Elliot Rodgers and Charles Whitman, there are thousands more who are suffering in silence

Colleges are culturally narrow, still centering on middle-class doctrines, whereas the outside world has lots of cracks and fissures in it.

So they need to get out, but they also need ways to be able to continue their education. And education needs to be lifelong anyway.

So while not suggesting that we shut down any colleges, we need to supplement them with independent study and life long learning programs.

SJG

^^^ shaddup, ya dumb fuck!

Elliot Rodger was clearly mentally ill even before his massacre. The problem was instead of ending up on the streets, daddy's money propped him up for a while. The issue is how we handle mental health.

There are reasons why these sorts of things tend to happen in high schools and colleges, and mostly at high schools and colleges of certain types.

And for everyone who does anything like what Elliot Rodgers or Charles Whitman did, there are thousands of others who really are in anguish, besides not really being able to complete their desired degrees.

So we need some other venues for people to continue their educations. Agreed?

And as far as Rodgers's father's money, that could have sent him anywhere, like reading poetry in Paris Cafe's, or maybe living in TJ's Cascadas Hotel.

But where it did put Elliot, was a an extremely culturally and sociologically narrow university, where he and the sorority girls did not get along at all.

Elliot's main audience seemed to be his father, the guy he was trying to send a message too, via his videos, and beyond.

As I see it, clearly he need to be someplace else, a place less culturally narrow.

What was keeping him in the hands of doctors, was his father's money.

And as far as this idea of mental illness:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_o…

Sure, anytime anyone does anything which is disturbing, we say they are mentally ill. I first learned this when someone I knew in grad school, completing his studies, had a rough time in the work place, working for some of the premier employers, but still having a very hard time, ended up driving his motor cycle off a cliff.

Someday I would love to track down his coworkers from back then and interview them.

But people said, "Oh (name), his mind had a problem".

These people were foreign students, English was not their first language. So their speech may sound a bit stilted. But the man who killed himself was a white American.

Mental illness is always the explanation given for things we don't know how to deal with. And psychiatry, psychotherapy, and psychiatric medications are one of the main mechanisms for middle-class child abuse.

SJG

Summom, Salt Lake City, video classes
http://www.summum.tv/

What I had heard about Elliot Rodgers, right after his killing spree, was that his father was sending him to a psychotherapist. And that for his entire life, he was often finding himself the target of school bullying, and his father was always transfering him to different schools, as well as to all these therapists.

So you've got three groups of people who are wrong:

1. the father
2. the doctors
3. the school administrators

Now as far as the University of California and the sorority girls, yes, they are a kind of a symbol, usually seen as the elite of the elite.

So if someone thought there was something seriously wrong about it all, they may well target sorority girls, even though you can't really say that they are doing anything wrong.

Elliot was lamenting that even though he should be at the top of the social pecking order, he was instead an outcast. But this does not mean that he supports any of these social hierarchies. But it does seem that they are strong at the University of California, as they are likely to be at most of your traditional colleges.

SJG

Elliot Rodgers, I believe that his father had been a still photographer, than a motion picture camera man, then a second unit director. Net worth about $250 Meg.

Many of the UC campuses have more women than men. People think they are fuck fests. But from what I can see, this is mostly no. Maybe compared to the 1950's. But compared to how it goes with young women who are supporting themselves in the work place, no way.

Most of the UC students are coming from well off families, and they have conservative views and standards to uphold.

So there is way more drinking than there is fucking.

And of course the most elitist and the most insufferable, are the sorority girls.

Now Elliot was an English Major. That is something fairly benign. Good.

Eventually he will have to decide what he wants to do for a living, and that may take time. So better he starts asap. But the thing is, the UC schools are set up as child care centers.

Whereas at the CSU's, the average age is older, and most students are working part time jobs and the class schedules support this.

And then at community colleges, the average age is even older.

I would have suggested to him a CSU. They still have fraternities and sororities, but they are different and they are not such a big deal, so best just to stay away from them.

Maybe Elliot would be good in drama, or as a musician?

Jim and Artie Mitchell got their start as door men in a porno theater.

Hunter S. Thompson was a manager for Jim and Artie, and he was for 20 years the political writer for Rolling Stone.

Movie about a young guy writing for Rolling Stone.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181875/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qW9wqUI…

Anyway, Elliot could go to school part time. Having this outside work experience would make things go completely different for him with girls. The UC schools can be highly toxic. His father had managed his life and probably saw Elliot as an embarrassment, and this drove everything. He was looking for the college to be a good environment. Often it is not.

So the most basic way to protest is just to not be there. But people still should have a way to get an education and get the recognition. Beating the education is not that hard. But to get the recognition and break down our class system, it is going to take more.

SJG

10 times more likely to smoke
https://www.democracynow.org/2017/7/17/f…

What is PUA Hate? I first heard about this is conjunction with Elliot Rodger. Is it just people who Hate Pickup Artists? Rodger could actually be very good as a pick up artist. But the college and the sorority girls are not the place to find that out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/m…

http://www.mediaite.com/online/what-is-p…


"


Rodger’s language is familiar to anyone who’s spent time exploring the Pick-Up Artist or Men’s Rights Activist communities. Rodger was a “Nice Guy,” a man who feels he is entitled to sex based on positive personality traits known only to him. (“I've wanted love, affection, adoration. You think I’m unworthy of it. That's a crime that can never be forgiven,” he said). He aspired to be an “Alpha," the most attractive, dominant man in his group, but felt he’s been wrongly dismissed as an inferior “Beta.” Pick-Up Artists, by the way, refer to women they would like to have sex with as their “targets.”

Rodger was also allegedly a member of PUAHate.com, a website for men who feel they’ve been tricked by the Pick-Up Artist pyramid scheme, which takes men’s money and promises to teach them how to have sex with women. (And not just any woman, but one who scores at least a 7 on the PUA decimal rating scale of female attractiveness.) PUA Hate is a community devoted to criticizing the Pick-Up Artist movement and “the scams, deception, and misleading marketing techniques used by dating gurus and the seduction community to deceive men and profit from them." It is not, however, interested in putting an end to the PUA community’s objectification of women; it simply complains that the tips and tricks don’t work.
"
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/201…

FWIW, I don't go along with the PUA doctrine, or with people like RooshV. Though I do find RooshV extremely humorous to listen to. But I do not agree with his views.

http://jezebel.com/lessons-from-a-day-sp…

With the sorority girls, and with most of the girls at a school like that, no, you can't just hit on them. But almost anywhere else, yes.

If Elliot was working part time on some suitable career, and instead going part time to a CSU, he'd of had all the pussy he could have handled. These elite rich girl schools are really bad places.

http://sluthate.com/

https://thehairpin.com/the-pickup-artist…

Now I understand, they don't hate PUA's, they hate the self-proclaimed experts who make money off of the concept. Now I understand.

I do not agree with the PUA doctrine, but much of what they actually suggest is just common sense and in many places, it is very easy to pick up on women.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthrea…

SJG

Football season is coming soon who's looking forward to it.

My Christian Eating Lions have multiplied, and they are ready! So bring on the football games.

*********************************************

At some of the UC schools, fraternities and sororities are a bigger deal than others. I would speculate that they are less at say Santa Cruz, and more at Los Angeles.

At Santa Barbara, where Elliot Rodger was, probably they were a big deal. Mostly upper middle-class parents sending their daughters there.

But I don't know that Elliot had that much social contact with the sorority girls. Rather, they set themselves up as a symbol.

Remembering now, it was R. Buckminster Fuller who dropped out of Harvard, because he could not get into a fraternity and he just did not like the situation.

One commentator said that it was because he did not have the right social connections, and was a kind of eccentric, and so he could not get into the most prestigious fraternity.

https://www.amazon.com/Buckminster-Fulle…

And wasn't it Woodrow Wilson, President of Princeton, fired because he tried to eliminate fraternities and sororities?

Once I had looked into these things just a bit, and what i found dovetailed with what someone had told me, that they started in the South, right after the Civil War.

Remember the movie Mr. and Mrs. Bridge? Kansas City, and in the 1930's. They were normative there. The younger daughter's beaux was "An Independent", and not everyone would go along with that.

Elliot Rodger would have done better at a more open sort of school, where most of the students are less rich, less elitist, less conformist, and are going to school and working at the same time, such as our CSU's or our Community Colleges.

As some have noted, the more money the parents have, the harder it is for the child to break out of their controls.

I don't have bad feelings about the father, but that Elliot would be sending him those video monologues does suggest that all was not well between them.

And then there are far more people for whom traditional colleges are just completely out of reach, and the costs keep escalating. We need to be making some other options.

SJG

Religion and the 2016 Election: Historical Context and Unusual Alliances - Prof. Randall Balmer; Greenville South Carolina, Bob Jones University
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjMhdHHk…

Funniest joke on the internet,

SJG went into a strip club !

that's the joke

There it is, that fast moving Bi-Turbo, license: "PLNTYDSPSBL".

Not loud, but quiet and comfortable.

Me in my FIAT nuevo 500, it blasting past me, its four doors blowing off my two.

'Till all I can see is its satellite radio dorsal fin.

SJG

Funniest joke on the internet,

SJG went into a strip club !

that's the joke

As I know, at the UC's the frats and sororities are like: "We are already the greatest".

Whereas at the CSU's it is, "We are motivated for success".

So of course the best thing to do is avoid both of them. But it is easier to avoid the CSU type. Whereas the UC type makes itself a visible as possible.

No good! Need other types of schools.

SJG

Marriage Markets
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=5091…

Funniest joke on the internet,

SJG went into a strip club !

that's the joke

Yes, we have had these shootings in high schools, and in colleges too.

Fraternities and Sororities, and people thinking they are better than everyone else, have been a part of it.

People have studied these school shootings
https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Ro…

And then it was R. Buckminster Fuller who twice dropped out of Harvard, over these fraternities.

https://www.amazon.com/Buckminster-Fulle…

It was Woodrow Wilson, having been President of Princeton, who got fired for trying to eliminate fraternities and sororities.

And where did this all start. Not really sure, but sounds like some of it started in the South, and right after the Civil War, and that these chapters were spread across the country.

For every problem which ends in spectacular tragedy, there are 1000's upon thousands of others where traditional colleges just don't work, or are impractical. Need to set up other options.

SJG

Visualization Techniques # 1- Kristie Knutson, she would go on to become the Grand Master for the entire English Language jurisdiction. But eventually she was forced out, and the HQ was moved to France.

She's not the worst, but I never did care for her. AMORC has had its limitations. Not a

fan of Self-Improvement teachings.

The building shown at the start is AMORC's Temple, San Jose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ShZR5Om…

http://pamela2051.tripod.com/AMORC_Templ…

And upstairs there is a Martinist Room.

This one is probably in France
http://www.phoenixstjohn.com/wp-content/…

Rosicrucians & Secret Knowledge Of Creators of Human Race
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGAJrx1J…

Traditional colleges, meaning those with class times, homework, and examinations, where you are forced to learn on their schedule, have serious limitations and they harm lots of people.

Then there is also the problem that in a short window of time, 4 years, 8 years, whatever, you cannot possibly learn all you need to know. And then things are always changing. You need life long learning.

The purpose of school should just be to teach you how to educate yourself. Once this has been accomplished you should be able to proceed with some form of supervised independent study.

And one needs access to both old books and new books. It is in the comparing of them that one really develops a good understanding. New books only is totally inadequate.

For many people, traditional college just does not work, or it is at the wrong time in their lives. Still today it serves more as an indicator of social class, than it does anything else.

In the organization I am building all these needs will be met, including accredited degrees.

SJG

Lester Young
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8snbEWCW…

Karl Marx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrhoHtS…

SJG has a brain made out of shit!

So go back to where I started Elliot Roger, University of California Santa Barbara, the Isla Vista Shooter.

The sorority girls are not going to like him. As I have observed they like a conformist already harnessed personality type, usually the product of team athletics. Doing bullshit, just to gain approval. What more could a pretty rich girl want?

I gather that UCSB is rich kids, I guess like UCLA. Elliot Roger certainly was such, but he was not the normative type.

So to be where? Nominally an English Major, that certainly seemed to fit him. I think he would have been great as a theater actor too. He may have followed his father into the visual arts.

So how about instead, in San Francisco, living in the Tenderloin, or in North Beach, bedding down with Pink Diamonds and Market St. Cinema honeys each night. Working a basic job, and that will make a big difference in how the women see him. Roger would be more a service sector person. He would be exactly like the gay men, except that he is not gay.

He could be taking a class or two at a time at SF State, a much more down to earth working people school than the SoCal UC's. Maybe he would never graduate, but lots of people don't. He would find his way.

One problem, living in San Francisco is so expensive that his service sector money would not pay the rent. He would still need to be getting money from his rich father. But that should be okay. With working people, especially working girls. Far better than at the rich kids college.

Eventually he would find his way and decide what he wants, with our with out graduating from college. He could live in an artist's commune, like one that I would want to be supporting. He would get very close to some of the women, not necessarily strippers, but bohemian women.

Traditional Universities can be very negative places.

SJG

If they could get out the lame ass professors spewing their cultural Marxism, and other sjw bullshit it would get better but since so many people want to take gender studies and other bullshit majors where you get no skills where you can make a living, it breeds a bunch of week pussies looking for handouts.

So yet again I go back to where I started. We have lots of high school shootings. But we also have lots of college shootings too. Definitely security measures are always in place, because this is so common.

But are people looking at what the causes of these shootings are?

Elliot Rodger, the Isla Vista Shooter, UC Santa Barbara, he really shocked me. Part of it is what he did, the other part is just his views. And the guy wrote hundreds of pages and made videos.

And I can sympathize with his feelings, though not with his actions. But sometimes people just do crack.

So is college a bad place? Well at a school like his, most of the young women are from very well off families. Its not that other people are not there, I'm just talking about the majority. They have led charmed lives. What ever people are expected to have, they have. And as far as academics, well for the most part they have been free of other cares or concerns, so though not brilliant, they are good enough to easily get through school. The vast majority are not employed while they are in school. And of course by their manner of frivolous dress and their camaraderie, the sorority girls make themselves into a symbol. That is just how SoCal is, and it comes straight from the high schools in the wealthier areas. SoCal is very wealth segregated. And the girls at that sort of school are supported by their parents, and this makes them very different from those one will meet outside of college.

Those from more humble beginnings, and with less charmed lives, they go to the CSU's and Community Colleges.

Now Elliot Rodger, his father was wroth $250 Meg. Elliot's family was richer than the majority of the students. And he had all the goodies to show this too.

But still, Elliot was not like most of the other students, especially the well off ones.

What I have seen is that sorority girl types, they seem to go for an athletic conformist type. These are guys who are always the lowest common denominator of their friends. For the girls it is the fashion show. For the guys it is the commitment to meaningless athletic contests. These are the people who keep bourgeoisie society going. And likely they will fill the slots in corporate America. They do what they have been told to do, and as this shows in them, doors open to them.

Elliot was not at all like this, even though often richer.

In high school Elliot experienced bullying, and as he described, bullying in front of girls.

The father Peter Rodger was not what Oliver Stone has called, "A Commercial Director", "A Shooter". No, he had developed himself slowly from still photography to being a second unit director to doing things which did bring him notice. There is definitely an artistic and more sensitive strain in the family, and Elliot clearly showed this.

So again, I say that that college was, at least for some, a very negative environment. Elliot need to be else where, a different kind of school, some suitable work experience, living in the bohemian core of a big city. Eventually he would find his way. But at that kind of school, a very tough situation, and eventually he just cracked.

So for myself, high school was hard, and so was college. High school was just a complete waste of time academically. College was better academically, and I tried as best I could to avail myself of that.

But still, being in college was hard, it was a mostly negative and conformist environment. But college is normative. If I had not of gone, I'd of had more trouble in life. As I did go, it worked out, but it was still years spent in a negative place, not supportive for study and learning, and not socially constructive either. Something else would have been better.

So I emphasize that people need a system under which they can continue their educations life long. And even for young adults, there still need to be better types of options.

As it stands now, college remains more a show of social prestige and status, more than anything else, and this can never be good.

SJG

Masters of Money, Karl Marx
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyrhoHtS…

Masters of Money
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9ULMxxl…

High School and College each had high costs on me.

Of course college takes time energy and money. But there are other costs, like the opportunity cost of being there instead of elsewhere doing something else. And in many ways, both High School and College were negative environments. Not that life since has not often been hard, its just that beyond college I know that there are always more possibilities. In college it was like being stuck in something. Still trying to find ways to give words to this. But I can see what Elliot Rodger was saying.

SJG

Oscar Peterson Trio - "Satin Doll" - 1989
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYjB_j8E…

High School and College too are conformist environments. All the more so when most of the student body is very young, very well off, or being supported by their parents.

Here, UC is the most like the above, and that's where we run into Elliot Rodger. CSU less so, and Community Colleges even less so.

SJG

There is one guy who would always play it differently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJEkl5G…

More:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsJEkl5G…

So we have this: 'Modern Fortran In Practice', by Arjen Markus, 2012

And we read that Markus is with this Deltars, which is in the Netherlands, and deals with water, the subsurface and infrastructure, and Markus develops numerical modeling programs and the tools that accompany them. Markus is also a leader in the community which maintains and extends Fortran. In the book, Markus explains that as Fortran stands now, it has distinct advantages over other languages, such as C.

I need to read more to be able to see these advantages. But in part this deals with the very complex area of array processors.

Well, I know that these sorts of environmental modeling issues are very complex. People think about supercomputers as used for nuclear weapons modeling. But I know also that the US Weather Service also does extensive and complex modeling and simulations.

It was in college that I first saw first hand that there were adults who actually used their brains, and they did complex things which were worthy of an intelligent adult.

As a child I never got much chance to see this. As I saw it the adults were completely corrupted, sell outs and buffoons.

But this still does not mean that any path was open to me to do such work. Quite the contrary, the conformist social pressures applied to young adults are extreme. And always it is to be doing things which are for appearance and no substance, as this is where the money seems to be. This is also where the social legitimacy is.

Nevertheless, by fierce fighting I was able to do things of mathematical content and potential lasting value. But it was always by fighting day in and day out. And guess what, the more one accomplishes, the more the jealous rivals and established leaders who are sniping at you. The road gets harder, not easier, when you have a track record of results.

That was when I decided that if you want to do things of real content and lasting value, you have to run your own affairs.

So I guess this is not really a critique of colleges. Or maybe it is. You will sometimes find professors who have given up. So long as they can continue to get grants, say from NSF, they can hire research assistants. But this does not always mean that their work has any relevance to anything. I asked one about this and he said, "I don't know." To me this meant, "I don't care." And I later learned that one of his grad students, someone I always though highly of, had worked for two of the most prestigious employers, still very unhappy, and had ridden his motorcycle off a cliff.

In fact, these academics may be picking things of questioned relevance in order to avoid becoming a target for attacks.

I'm saying that the pressures lined up to stop someone from doing things of lasting relevance and mathematical content, are extreme.

Today, anything dealing with applied mathematics will be done on computers. So I see a tremendous amount of potential and hope in the Free Software Foundation.

You can do something with that, say for example investing 100 hours. Where as to do the same in standard industry it would be 100 hours of productivity, plus another 900 hours of politics. Always writing memos explaining what you are doing. Fighting just to maintain your ground and mandate, extremely tiring. And the best of what you have already accomplished will be used against you.

Colleges, to an extent show those who want to see it that things could be different, but they don't usually really provide a path to this.

FWIW, in the organization I am building, things will be completely different.

SJG

Phil Collins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BuuGxEg…

Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRSgvfNZ…

Mr. Gumby your brain hurts

https://youtu.be/MrCPIrs90eg

^^^^^ If their aren't things which make your's hurt, you might want to consider why that would be.

SJG

Traditional Colleges are very narrow environments, like here we have UC, very young average age. CSU has an older average age, and Community Colleges even more so.

Beyond a point, such places cannot be that great of a place to get an education.

I am convinced that Elliot Rodger would have done better some place else. I also know that for everyone who snaps and does something like he did, there are 1000's of others who are suffering in silence.

SJG

TJ Steet
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/9620…

Robert Reich, Inequality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCWk_mKo…

My reply:
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

So much better than dealing with girls in the college environment. Mostly I think it is because a full time college is an elite world, and also because most of the people are being supported by their parents. High school also a problem the same way.

SJG

In my experience, colleges and universities are actually very anti-intellectual environments. The vast majority are not interested in any kind of detailed knowledge, just in a piece of paper which says that they graduated from college.

You cannot actually talk with them about very much, as they try to cast everything as being tied to future income guarantees.

Outside of college, yes the people are anti-intellectual too. But we all know this.

Me, spending lots of time reading, and a large portion of this being college text books, I can see even more now how anti-intellectual the college environment actually is.

And then the sex is often really messed up.

I do not agree with what Elliot Rodger did, or with his expressed view, but I do understand his distress.

The organization I am building will solve all these problems, a pro-intellectual life long learning environment, and total sexual paradise.

SJG

You are right. I think that universities are too pretentious. For every one brilliant professor coming out with amazing content, there is 10 more busybodies of bullshit. Some of it being other professors, most of it being university administration staff.

Those fuckers are far less deserving being subsidized by taxpayer money than Laquisha with five children.

Traditionally, college is a class signifier. Today, with the push of university, it’s less so. The more people who go, the more worthless it is.

I was happy to drop out to enjoy my stripper life, but I’m fininshing up to get that piece of paper to jump through through the hoops society requires.

And despising every minute of it. Hopefully a white collar office job won’t be as bad.

My organization will supply life long learning, supervised independent studies. Really needs to be this way. Only way you can really learn that much. Can't do it in a narrow time window, and it only works when people are intrinsically motivated.

As far as Laquisha, I take exception to that as a racist stereotype. That an increasing large percentage of the population will not be supported by wage income is simply the result of industrialization. We actually should be planning on a much smaller labor force.

White collar office jobs are horrid, selling yourself. Keep on stripping and giving guys what they want for as long as possible, and then still keep on going.

And then there will always be a place for you in my organization.

SJG

What will your organization have? There’s already Khan Academy. And the Great Courses. Would it just enable more people interaction?

I’ve heard talk about robots replacing the roles of people as a justification for socialism. I’m skeptical of that, but my personal opinions favor more the Austrian economic side of things.

I would strip, but I face pressure to quit. But if I hate corporate America too much, I’ll definitely double down on self employment aspirations.

Nicespice, talk about replacing people with robots and Austrian economics, that sounds like just the non-sense of the Right, and Libertarianism is just a stalking horse for the Right.

My organization is going, but just a handful of local people, and nothing on paper, and no money changing hands.

But what it will be is something spread throughout the US and Northern Mexico, and maybe further.

It will be invitation only and never advertised. We only invite people we know f2f, not from online. They are all held to very high standards, especially the men.

The men will be paying substantial membership dues. This money mostly pays for the club houses and a fleet of shuttle vans. The vans are for moving people around, but mostly the women. The money is strictly accounted for. And it will be supplemented by money from companies I will be running.

My salary will be $1 per year.

Our people will always be well taken care of. But we will also have a radial left agenda.

For those who want to be in the inner order, then they will live on our properties. They will get a small allowance. But really they will never need money again.

For those who decide they want to leave, there will be an exit parachute. For the women this will 4x what the men get. But this is not intended to put them out to pasture. It is just so that they don't feel trapped.

For those who do not leave, which we hope will be most, that money will go into a separate non-profit which will build more residence halls.

Everyone will be in a lifelong supervised program of independent study. Education needs to be lifelong, and eventually people should be able to teach themselves.

There is much more to it, but most I must conceal at this point.

One big benefit, and I guess a controversial facet, is the 365 day a year drained dry guarantee. Drained dry by stripper grade hotties, sex is not rationed, you get saturated, and never any charge for this. And so while our club houses, really temples, will serve many purposes, the primary purpose for them and the reason for tying money up in them is sex. So just show up at the club house, and the only reason today for travel, everything else can be done by computer, and our dolled up stripper grade hotties will go into action.

SJG

3D Circuit Boards

Heart, Little Queen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhFit87V…

Talking Heads, full concert 1980
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_PC6Tl…

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is widely mocked and considered potentially mentally unstable, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

DC9428 wrote,

"The entire school system is anti-intellectual and not really the best place for learning."

I agree fully! And my organization will, for our people, remedy this.

And yes, we do need to go to Universal Basic Income.

The difference between this and welfare is that it is not needs tested, everyone automatically gets it without even needing to apply.

We need this, for one thing just to justify our society's existence. We can't go on perpetuating a society which justifies itself by blaming the poor.

Capitalism depends upon the abuse of children, and then on being able to justify it. This is why people get away with blaming the poor.

Keynesianism worked perfectly. But then we abandoned it. And now we are gutting one layer after another of all which made our society work. The so called Supply Side doctrines.

Today though there are other issues, like environmental. We cannot just expand the economy, as Keynesianism does, and expect that to solve our problems. It makes other problems.

And also, we should not be promoting the middle-class, as Keynesianism does, because the middle-class lives in Bad Faith and this means the exploitation and abuse of children. We should not ever be encouraging this.

SJG

I also want to point out, as there are people here who follow the Right, that I am not in anyway calling for reduction of funding to public universities. No. Expanding the will help, broader sociological basis.

More people in college is good. So as Bernie Sanders called for, Free College.

My organization will have its type of college for our people, always free. But we do not try to steer people who are in traditional colleges away from that. We encourage them.

SJG

In my organization the men will be held to very high standards before they get invited. So continuing scholarship will be universal. Not always book learning, as this does not work well for everyone. But usually book learning.

This will also be encouraged in the women. But it will not be a requirement. Rather, we will give them more time to see how things go, and to make friends with the other women, and to find their own ways.

SJG

My Ignore List

DrPhil, DrPhil., IME, Meat72, san_jose_gay, tixtittyfag, JimGassagain, Call.Me.Ishmael, SirLapdancealot, L1oydSchoene

Peter Frampton Do You Feel Like We Do Midnight Special 1975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7rFYbMh…

Andreas Vollenweider - Caverna Magica (Vinyl rip)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxvwW_xr…

Do you find the above two songs similar? I certainly do.

People need a venue for life long learning, this has to be so, this makes the difference between who goes senile and who does not. Used to be that people thought senility and Alzheimer's were just things which happened. Now more and more it is being talked about as a lifestyle issue.

SJG

The vast majority of the people in traditional colleges are just there for the degree. They do not envision that they will ever be using what they learn.

And then also, the material is never really current in colleges. It can't be. Always behind the curve. Current knowledge has to come from work experience.

Also, college is just never broad enough and not enough time. Needs to be life long, needs to be broader and self directed.

FWIW, the organization I am building will provide this.

But standard colleges do a great deal of harm. I am not saying stop them or defund them, but we need to supplement them with things which are better.

The vast majority of people who know something well really are self taught.

SJG

Mason
https://www.allmusic.com/album/harbour-m…

1971
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyeJk5W…

So, there is no shortage of high school shootings, and there are lots of college shootings too. They seem to me similar, very similar.

And we have the Elliot Rodger episode, and then follow ons:

PaulDrake's Incel Thread
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Excellent book about school shootings:
https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Ro…

Toronto Incident
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2018/0…

Incel Forum
https://incels.me/

Misogynist Ideology
https://www.vox.com/world/2018/4/25/1727…

So what Katherine S. Newman is saying in her book is that these high school shootings do not happen n high crime areas or areas where there are kids with criminal records, or where their probably are lots of guns in schools.

Rather, they are happening in white suburban mono-culture areas, low crime rates, very few guns in schools or kinds with criminal records or violent experience.

They are happening in these places because they are conformist pressure cookers. Where as in inner city schools there are enough social niches that everyone can find a place.

So college seems that it can be the same. In Elliot Rogers's videos, this amounts to what he was saying, a socially oppressive place, and because of conformist mono culture.

So after the Rodgers spree I happened to meet someone who is a councilor of students at Fresno State, and he is also very active in Latino politics, and I explained about Rodger and his 'Manifesto', and about the Katherine S. Newman thesis.

The UC campuses actually have the lowest average age. CSU is higher, and the community colleges even higher.

So for one thing this shows that it is mainly socio-economic status based. Kids are sent to college by their parents. It was like this for Rodger and for most all those he ever had contact with.

I told the man that if he had been at CSU, or most any place else, it would be hard to imagine the frustration Rodger spoke of. There other kinds of schools are not mono-culture.

As many have reported, most of those at CSU are employed at least part time. Same for Community Colleges. So this gives people a broader base of social experience. They are not hot boxed in some strange place. And they tend to be older.

Less concerned about "student life" stuff, like frats and sororities, or like athletics. People are busy with their school work, and usually with outside employment too.

So as I see it, traditional colleges can be extremely negative places. Some of this is caused by how the schools are run, and some of it is just because of how our world is.

Being in such a school at a young age is not always good, not for many people.

Need to be other kinds of schools, other ways for people to go.

There was the Peace Corp, still exist? How about Bill Clinton's Ameri Corp?

Need to be other things too.

Overall an expansion in the number of part time colleges and independent study schools would be an improvement. And then short f2f summer seminars would be good.

Really, a man is not seen as an adult until he has employment income. I was very surprised myself, in college facing what Elliot Rodger faced, but out of college and having women jumping in front of each other to make me see them.

Total day and night difference.

And then even if one is out of college, one still should be educating themselves.

We need more alternatives. Traditional colleges have serious limitations, and they can be really negative places.

SJG

West Side Story - America - Bernstein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOqBwH9y…

Prog Rock at the BBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCD-knx6…

The Pentangle, 1968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlETEjtF…

Pentangle - Light Flight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9gCN9-J…

Basket of Light Full Album
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2cBT8--…

Mike Oldfield-Tubular Bells III Live London
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2BqiipG…

Led Zeppelin 1969
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-WSbMW7…

Hispanic Foundation of Silicon Valley's Latino Report Card a 'Huge Wake Up Call', delivered by former San Jose Mayor Ron Gonzales
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Hi…

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

Here, 2018, first serious book I have found saying anything about Elliot Rodger since his 2014 shooting spree:

The Wiley handbook on violence in education : forms, factors, and preventions / edited by Harvey Shapiro (2018)

https://www.amazon.com/Wiley-Handbook-Vi…

Learning to be a rampage shooter : the case of Elliot Rodger / Ralph W Larkin, 16 page chapter

Larkin has written other books, like about Columbine, and about things like Suburban Youth Troubles, applying to people like Shailynn and the other white right wing / Republican-Libertarian types who end up on this forum.

No books I know of yet about the "Incel" phenomenon. I'm going to get the above book though.

SJG

BAKER GURVITZ ARMY - Live 1975
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7GXbGPN…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_…

A further point, these spree killers seem to be getting more and more common. They are very different from serial killers.

As I know, the first was Charles Whitman, at University of Texas. It was in response to that that Austin organized the nation's first Police SWAT Team.

I think the only way you can understand these spree killers is to see that first and foremost they are suicidals.

Homicide? -> Motive??

It makes no sense.

But Suicide -> Going Out With A Bang -> Making Some Kind Of A Statement,

That makes a great deal of sense.

It's that Famous For 20 Minutes Valerie Solanas scenario:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116594/

In the case of Elliot Rodger, I think the primary audience for his messages was intended to be his father.

And also remember that he also first killed his two roommates, the Chinese Engineering students, and he did it by cutting their throats early that morning. These two had nothing to do with the issues he wrote about in his manifesto.

And remember that in the early morning, before Whitman climbed the tower, he first cut the throats of both his wife and his mother, and these being at different addresses.

I think colleges have both strengths and weakness. But besides that there are people, many people, who just need to be somewhere else and doing something else. Traditional college, if it would ever be right for them, it would have to be at some later time.

I can envision lots of other situations where Elliot Rodger would have done very well.

And of Charles Whitman, if he had simply killed his father, I for one would today consider him to be a hero.


FWIW, in the organization I am building, everyone will be getting a very high quality supervised independent studies life long education. Equally the typical graduates from traditional colleges will be very easy. I think we can easily match the top 90% right off. Now of the best of the best, that would be hard because traditional colleges tend to draw most of the brightest of the bright. These are very different from most of their students.

As far as how seriously our graduates are taken, that really will depend on what they are like and what they are doing. Overall, I feel that our people will be clearly better than the bulk of those from even the most prestigious colleges and universities.

SJG

WARNING - The following accounts are considered to be forum trolls and may not be trustworthy:

san_jose_guy - commonly referred to as SJG this forum member is usually mocked or ignored, his comments should NOT be taken in any way as legitimate

Colleges can be high stress and negative environments. Often people just need to be elsewhere.

SJG

Katherine S. Newman, on campus safety, 2008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtsO5K6t…

Why 20-Somethings are Moving Back Home
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lftjp9x…

Katherine Newman - America's "missing class" presentation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AV5cgrx…

Elliot Rodger The Virgin Killer 2014 Isla Vista killings Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBm-dC26…

The Secret Life Of Elliot Rodger 2020 FULL Interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnT0CMwB…

Channel 4 Elliot Rodger The Virgin Killer Full Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IutRRGpe…

A lot of people need to be someplace else besides college. Or I should say, they need that there be someplace else where they can be. Often there is no such.

And then also, they need some other way to be able to get an education.

SJG

In college I met a guy who was transferring in as a Junior, coming from a Community College. And when there he has been employed, I think as the manager of a drug store.

This guy insisted that if he were back home and working in the drug store that he could have a different girl every night.

He felt that the 4 year college was a really negative place and that the girls were ridiculous.

Now of course I knew that what he was saying was just bragging. But also, having gone straight from high school to the 4 year college, and not having lived alone, I really did not know.

But when education is highly controlled, and then tied to a negative environment, that is a problem.

SJG


R Programming Langauge
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Computer Programming
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Assembler, C/C++, Embedded Systems, Machine Architectures, Development Systems, JTAG, Rust
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Pleaser 9" and 10"
https://www.pleaserusa.com/regular.asp?d…

Elliot Rodger Manifesto, 2014, 11 hours, human voice reading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60WCF3WB…

Mexican Independence Day, Sept. 16th, 1810
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Opera Carmen
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Are Traditional Colleges and Universities Bad Environments?
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Vocels (Voluntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Incels (Involuntary Celibates)
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

OT: Power Semiconductors, recent books about
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Stop holding doors for us if you don't want to talk about ending rape culture as much as wanna talk about other political issues
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

I challenge Nanna Bananna
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

While being yourself in a profession isn't always possible , it certainly is to a greater extent than most ppl realize.l
https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

Steve Jobs ' Most Inspiring Speech EVER ( facebook login required )
https://www.facebook.com/desientrepreneu…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cte9Bk_f…
Baker Gurwitz Army

Clark Kerr: Knowledge Industry
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4J94a_N…

Mario Savio on the operation of the machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yew51uYH…

Mario Savio Memorial Lecture: Robert Reich on Class Warfare in America
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LkYXec3…

I questioned him, and finally he said, "Okay, so some nights it will be the same girl."

His point was just that things were much better working at the drug store, being seen as in authority, compared to at the full time college with girls who were being supported by well of families.

And yes, by girls that you work with, you mean paid employment, yes, they see you there, so your employment credentials are verified.

But being in college can mean having to forgo such employment. So women will see you as not really adult. And in college you might not even realize that this is going on.

College really can suck.

SJG

They are bad environments if you want to make Revolution , or even just Counter Culture.

Most of the people there are doing what their expected to do, and putting lots of time and money into it.

And if they are being supported by their parents, then they are even less likely to want to make waves.

Need to be outside of college to make social changes.

SJG

Beth Hart & Jeff Beck - I'd Rather Go Blind (Kennedy Center Honors 2012)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fALdOkf_…

I learned a lot in a conventional university. But it was very hard work, and I feel that it had extreme social costs.

First, it is intended to be full time, not compatible with any outside employment or much of anything else either. And then it is all on the school and teacher's schedules.

I needed to be learning in some other kind of social environment. The school environment was really limited. I need to be able to be some place else and learning on my own schedule.

And then I need to be able to continue learning, more breadth, more depth, and more self-directed.

SJG

I think traditional colleges and universities can give someone the experience of a lifetime. They're not for everyone, but the model works for most.

^^^^^ The more elite the school is, the more socio-economically narrow it is, and the more of a social monoculture it is.

When they showed pictures of the students and all the vigils, at UC Santa Barbara, after the Elliot Rodger Rampage Shooting, it made me cringe.

Not a cool environment at all in my view. And if you are a student there you are really pressed, and so you really have no other social realms.

Some people like it, but I think it only works well for people who are already part of the kind of a social realm.

I think it hard for people to stay in such places very long.

I think Elliot Rodger could have done well in some other kind of social realm.

And then what we really need, in my view, is life long learning.

SJG

College is about finding yourself, branching out. Schools have different groups, activities, etc that people can try and see where their niche is.

Elliot Rodger is an anomaly. Ultimately he wanted to kill people and that's what he did. He would have had the same mindset regardless of his locale.

But the more elite a school is, the more narrowly cultural homogeneous it will be. And so some people will be marginalized, though they might do just fine someplace else.

This is known to be true of suburban and ex-urban high schools, but it also seems to be true of elite colleges.

And then know one can learn enough in just 4 years, it takes an ongoing life long education.

Need to set things up differently.

SJG

Kurt Leland - The Chakras: A Magical Mystery Tour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12IfYlCh…

When I first joined TUSCL it was right after the Elliot Rodger rampage shooter incident, Isla Vista CA, UC Santa Barbara.

And he self identified as INCEL, Involuntary Celibate. I had never heard of that term before.

In the time since, I have come to reject that term and that movement's ideas. Mostly just misogyny.

But I still raise the issue, is there something wrong with conventional college?

We have lots of high school rampage shootings. And we have college rampage shootings too.

With the high school shootings some feel that it does indicate that there are problems with the schools.

With the college shootings I would also look that way. But no one seems to be looking that way.

Obviously it is just a few people who are perpetrating these shootings. But I say that for every such case, there are tens of thousands more where there is someone for whom the school is a very negative environment.

On thing about Elliot Rodger is that in his writings you can feel his pain. I for one do not at all agree with his analysis. I see it as being driven by a right wing men's rights movement which is close to the NRA and to the public pitch of the Republican Party, and is in large measure misogyny.

But so if I set all of that aside, I still feel the guy's pain, and I still see the tragedy. And I still know that many many more need some other kind of a school.

SJG

Just the fact that colleges recognize fraternities and sororities, means that there is a huge built in social hierarchy.

Maybe some can go along with this, but for others it really poisons the environment.

These are not good places.

SJG

Rosicrucian Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cRlS8qL…

The American Electoral Republic has failed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRtvI5CX…

Ocasio-Cortez: Ukraine allegation one of the most serious we have seen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHNL872u…

Tsar to Lenin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRtvI5CX…

These schools, they have programs that are primarily full time oriented, and structured for you. So you just have to go with them. But then also you end up having to swallow their interpretations. So you end up measuring them and yourself by how much money you can make. It is this rather than what the intrinsic ends activity value is in what you learn and what you might do.

And then this of course limits the nature of the kinds of things you might study. You are limited in subject scope, and you are limited in both depth and breadth. Beyond a point these kinds of conventional programs will be seen to have little value, and actually to be quite harmful.




SJG

https://www.tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=…

New San Francisco DA:

Boudin descends from a long left-wing lineage. His great-great-uncle, Louis B. Boudin,[8] was a Marxist theoretician and author of a two-volume history of the Supreme Court's influence on American government, and his grandfather Leonard Boudin was an attorney who represented controversial clients such as Fidel Castro and Paul Robeson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boud…

Boudin was born in New York City.[1] His parents, Kathy Boudin and David Gilbert, were Weather Underground members.[2]

When Boudin was 14 months old, his parents were arrested for murder in their role as getaway car drivers in the Brink's robbery of 1981 in Rockland County, New York.[1][3] His mother was sentenced to 20 years to life[4] and his father to 75 years to life for the felony murders of two police officers and a security guard.[5] After his parents were incarcerated, Boudin was raised in Chicago by adoptive parents Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, who, like his parents, had been members of the Weather Underground.[6] Kathy Boudin was released under parole supervision in 2003.[

Both parents Weather Underground Members. Both served time, father still serving time.

I wonder what his views are on P4P and strip club mileage and FRMOS's?

The pressures on young adults to conform in their aspirations is intense. And conventional elite colleges are part of that. As such they manipulate and limit what people can learn.

SJG

Years have passed since I started this thread. A lot of it was inspired by the Elliot Rodger spree shooting in Isla Vista, UC Santa Barbara.

And then also stuff I had read about high schools:
https://www.amazon.com/Rampage-Social-Ro…

https://www.amazon.com/Jocks-Burnouts-So…

https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Capitali…

People were very upset about Elliot Rodger, but they never suggested that maybe UC needs to look at things it is doing and the environment it is creating.

And then I had never heard of this INCEL idea.

My contention is this, traditional colleges are not the best source of education, and they are totally insufficient. We all need a life long supervised or mentored independent studies education.

And then specifically with traditional college, and I think especially for men, it puts you into a situation where you are seen as less than an adult.

Now here I am referring specifically to elite colleges. And by that I mean places like University of California, where Elliot Rodger was going. And I mean most private schools too.

The key feature is that most of the students do not have even part time employment, they are being supported by their parents. No I am not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong here. The issue is just that one is seen as less than an adult.

We have CSU and Community Colleges. There most of the students do have at least part time employment. So this gives them a broader social horizon. I am not speaking to financial issues, to social horizon issues.

Most of the study programs at these elite colleges are very demanding. They do make it hard for anyone who would try to have even part time employment. For everyone in the program, there are others who want to get in but cannot. There are others who have been forced out. And employment is also a factor in getting forced out.

UC is harder to get into, and has more graduate students and more doctoral students, but still the average age is lower than CSU.

And CSU has a lower average age than Community Colleges.

Just looking at the academics, this is the opposite of what one would expect. And this is my point, which school you go to correlates most directly with how wealthy your parents are.

Now Eliot Rodger had wealthy parents. But he was still not adapted to the monoculture which that school represented. So he was an outsider, he fell prey to some stupid National Rifle Association and Manosphere Misogynism.

If say he was going to CSU, maybe in an artists collective like for spoken word, and then having part time employment, things might have been great for him.

If he could be employed at a Pizza Place, groups of pretty young girls would be eating there just to flirt with him.

Curiously, right after the Rodger incident, I met someone who was a councilor of students at CSU Fresno, and I explained my idea to him, that the problem was one of monoculture. And this is the same sort of problem which leads to spree shootings at these Ex-Urban High Schools, where you are far less likely to see these in Urban High Schools.

Is the Elite College, places like UC, a monoculture problem, and something which amounts to an extension of adolescence and which can become intolerable?

SJG