OT: Trying another round on SA

Here's (your) problem. You think you're paying hookers for sex, while the girls on the other side of the computer/smartphone have inflated egos and think you should be paying them JUST TO BE IN THEIR PRESENCE.

I used to be very active there but gave up in frustration after a few years, too many of the hot girls have too high of expectations. I love when I used to ask "so how many guys have paid you the amount you're requesting?" and I would usually get two types of answers: "none" and "tons of guys" I loved to follow up when they said "tons of guys" with "why aren't you currently seeing any of them now?" - which was a call out that they're full of shit - some caught it, some didn't.

There are gems on that site, but unless you live in a large city you have to do a lot of digging to find them. I've found the most efficient way to have sex, is with a stripper in or outside the club. I pay a fee, they fuck me, I go home - that's the way I personally like it for now. If you want dinner, the chase, a "companion" (so to speak) then SA might be just for you.

OTC isn't the caviar of the sex industry for nothing. it's unchallenged at the top, unless you're going to move into pretty high allowance levels on SA.

That said, I'm on a forum where there's a bunch of SDs and wanna-be SDs. Most of the seasoned SDs are paying $3000-$4500/month, if you count allowance, gifts, travel, hotel rooms, etc. Those guys are having a completely different experience than the rest of us on SA... at those prices, they're getting some quality women, it's just more than I am interested in paying for sex each month. The rest of us (most in the $1000-$1500/month bucket) all have similar stories: a flake rate that surpasses even strippers (although much of the flaking occurs during emails), no girls who are as attractive as their pics, many "regular girls" who just aren't so fun, and then you get the "$300 for dinner girls". That said, I HAVE run into some gems and had a good time, and I seem to have gotten better at picking those girls out .... in fact, my last few hits I've had positively OTC-like experiences, which is pretty nice (go ahead, ask me what those girls do for a living outside SA).

SA is where I'd be if strip clubs disappeared tomorrow, but as long as they're here, looks like they'll remain my primary. 'course, I could be just one awesome sugarbaby away from changing my mind

Yeah, there are plenty of girls on there who think guys will take them on all day shopping sprees, fly them out on vacations to Caribbean resorts, and buy them cars, yet not expect sex in return. They are completely delusional. I wrote an article called "strip clubs versus sugar babies" last year and came to the conclusion that I am a strip club guy.

I don't doubt there are a few insanely rich guys on there paying way over the market rate for sex, but even rich guys are not going to see a girl for more than once or twice at those kind of rates. If you have the means to buy any girl and price is nothing but a number, you are going to try to sample as many different coeds as you can, not stick to one chick. So yeah, every blue moon the hottest ladies might find a guy willing to pay $500-1500 for a trophy fuck, but no guy is going to pay way over the market rate for weeks, months, and years.

sinclair, at the forum I'm on, there's a pretty decent chunk of guys paying the numbers I cited -- $3000-$4500/month, in total -- and that isn't really "insanely rich guy" level. But it is a LOT, and more importantly, a lot more than I want to spend on sex, nor is having a paid-friend worth it to me. Those guys are definitely having a better experience than we minimal-level guys on SA, and I suspect is at the heart of much of the different views and experiences. If you're going to spend less than $1500/month in the sex industry, we're already in the right place

This is a link to Reddit: Denver_Luv's guide to using Seeking Arrangements for guys with good game and money...

google.com

In essence, like others TUSCL members have mentioned: YMMV Requires to invest time and money. You get what you paid for. There are lots of escorts. There are many GPS girls.

In any case you have to try it to see if it works for you and report your experience, because your experience will be unique, but can help others to learn from it. Good luck.

I've been thinking about writing an article about my experience on SA, I have some fun (at least to me) insights, I think. It has been a kick, even if the experience has been mixed

@subraman yeah, I've been thinking the same thing. Since I can't find a local SA forum, this would be as good a place as any.

I, too, am in that $1000-$1500 range, based on the desire to average some type of sexual encounter once a week at a price range of $200-$300 per encounter. I do like the chase, a companion, teasing/flirting/build up between visits, sexting, etc so trying to find someone on SA is worth the effort for me.

I'm not good looking enough for immediate physical attraction to overcome the lower $$$ I want to spend, so I don't chase the hotties. I did start out searching young women 21-29. Tried 2 in this range. Extreme flakiness killed both. I am still talking to one other but there has been mild flakiness already.

Decided to try something different, and expanded age search to 30-39 (still younger than me) hoping to find someone that is more stable. Initial conversations have been more stable, but did have two flake on our first date.

As opposed to the 21-29 crowd, the 30-39 crowd has universally acknowledged that sex is going to happen, several seem to be happy JUST meeting for sex, and one is just so desperate for attention I don't think she's going to ask for any money (although I have my doubts she'll follow through on meeting). One has set a very affordable price and seems sincere on meeting. I'm out of town right now, but once I get back I should have a bunch of dates lined up to see if anything works out. Two pretty good looking ones seem happy that I'm not trying to scam them, or string them along for internet sex.

What I was having trouble understanding was the girls saying they didn't have time to meet up with me, yet they are "On Line" at all hours of day and night. Then, I realized they are probably just chasing their version of a unicorn, and would rather sit at home messaging potential SDs instead of going out with one that has made a bona fide offer.

Why not start by offering something like 50.00 for lunch, or dinner, and not pushing for any expectations of sex? It's not that much money, and it's a chance for you to see if you like her, and want to develop any sort of arrangement w her also.

Once you do like her, and she likes you, then make your offer. I don't do arrangements, but if I did, I'd be likely to take a lower rate from someone I was already comfortable with. If you aren't pushy and truly do just buy her dinner once a week and give her 50, bc you're a nice guy and you know she's needing cash, she will start feeling some gratitude and develop fondness. My favorite customers are the ones who are just easy to be around. If you get along, she will look forward to having a decent, low pressure, dinner out, and having a little extra cash also. Then, when you want to elevate it, the lower rate will seem like a lot more money, for not a lot more, bc she already trusts you, and likes you.

-->"Extreme flakiness killed both" -->"but did have two flake on our first date"

Anyone looking for less flakiness on SA is delusional ... it's one of the main threads that absolutely unites all of our stories. The good news is, even though SA girls as a whole are flakier than strippers, they tend to flake earlier in the process: an SA girl might disappear mid-conversation, or disappear after she agrees to a date, or disappear the day before the date, or cancel the morning of ... but I've only had one no-text no-show where all systems were go so I actually went to the date and then got stood up.

AGain, the $3500+/month group is perplexed by all this and they don't see nearly as much of it (I assume RM is in this group also; his experience seems to be that SA girls are more reliable than strippers, not less). Among the small group of guys on the forum who started on SA about the same time as me, most have already dropped SA.

BJ99-->"Once you do like her, and she likes you, then make your offer."

I'm actually a believer in that. I think if you're looking for an escort-like experience, then negotiating in advance over email might be the right thing. But if you're interested in anything more than "go to a hotel room, pay me, have sex, leave an hour later, don't text me until you want to do it again", just concentrate on compatibility, and make her feel safe and appreciated, over email. IMO, she may accept less if you're safe, fun, and easy.

Bj99-->"Why not start by offering something like 50.00 for lunch, or dinner, and not pushing for any expectations of sex?"

I agree with the last part -- make the initial meet-and-greet about meeting, that's it. It flushes out the escorts, and leaves the higher quality girls who want to know you first. I don't agree about offering the $50 ... despite my complaints of flakiness, I've met with a lot of potential SBs, so still lots of opportunity to get them to meet without paying them. But not paying $50 is more about me ... sooooo many women do not look as good as their pics, it's like escort pics or Tinder pics, the pics are their best pics from 5 years ago. If I'd offered $50 for every meetup, I'd be out hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and feeling angry and ripped-off, and have a whole different attitude about SA. If she shows up not looking as good as her pics and 15 pounds heavier now, I shrug and make the best of enjoying the next hour(s) drinking with a young woman; if I'm PAYING her to show up, it's a completely different ballgame if I feel she misrepresented herself with pics.

Basically, when SA has worked for me, it's: charm her over email, first meeting is a no-sex meet-and-greet with both of us sharing the risks (that is, I won't be paying her), discuss prices and expectations at the end of that meeting if you're so moved, and then follow up quickly to get to the sex.

So what ab only giving the ones you want to see again 50 for the first date, after you have a good time. As a sort of tip. For her gas money, or to get herself a nice bottle of wine on you? Then continue w that u til you are ready to make an offer? It still makes it ab you, but it's also a show of good faith on your part, and puts you in a good light while you are waiting to establish a connection. The goal is to find a less flakey girl, who you like, and who likes you, for a much lower rate in the long term.

I never tried anything like SA because it sounds like way too much work. I've had several sugar daddy relationships with strippers that took only a fraction of the time to set up that these SA deals seem to take. Also I never pay to talk to or spend time with a woman. Never. Not even with a DS.

Hmmm, I suppose I don't have any major philosophical objections, other than generally being averse to paying her for nothing. That said, I have two anecdotes where I paid a potential SB for "Nothing", and in both cases, those girls did the opposite of flaking after that, they pursued me until I broke it off (in one case) or indulged (in the other). In the first case, a girl I ended up liking told me she took Uber to get to the date, since she doesn't drive, and since she lives faaar away, I gave her $40 for her Uber. She continued to pursue me, but I decided that if she lives so far, and can't drive, logistics would just be horrible and I didn't want to deal. In the other case, there was a smoking hot girl who I'd met once already and knew she was awesome, she had told me before our first "official" date how incredibly stuck she was for $$$ and had a big bill coming up... I had to cancel our date literally an hour before (yes, I'm the one who flaked) but I shot her $100 since I knew she was depending on revenue from my commitment, and she was crazy grateful; next time I met her, she showed her appreciation.

So, anyway, could be something to your theory :)

JS69: ". Also I never pay to talk to or spend time with a woman. Never. Not even with a DS."

That's right, JS! A man in his 50's going through a mid-life crisis and trying to live like he is a teenager again, must do whatever it takes to preserve whatever sliver of dignity he has left, right?

I am with John Smith on this one. I have a couple of friends who I respect alot that have taken the S.A. route. From my perspective, their success rate is rather low and there is a big investment in time, effort and even disclosure of whom you actually are. We all have different goals, but I have found a higher rate of success with good satisfaction for me by going the ITC and OTC route.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered on here, at the rate of once a week, JS69 gives girls enough to have an arrangement at the higher price range. At that rate, he doesn't have to pay for their other time.

@shailynn well said

@subraman These bigger spenders are playing the game at a much higher level and no doubt having some amazing experiences. "(go ahead, ask me what those girls do for a living outside SA)". Let me guess are they strippers.

You should write that article, I would read it, your always very informative on here.

I'm not surprised the bigger spenders are having less problems with flaking. 1) They are likely spending a bit more per date in the beginning and looking for more frequent meet ups compared to the minimal type guys and 2) Most sb's are busy, they would rather earn all of it from one guy instead of having to take dick from a bunch of other guys each month.

@Sinclair I did read your article, nice read.

@Bj99 Some guys pay for the first meet and greet and some don't. I treat it as an investment of time for both parties involved. However if it was a good meet you could throw her a fifty because your likely going to be contacting her again.

@johnsmith69 It is a lot of work.

lucky guess, day_trader :) And yes, totally agree that's the reason the $3500+ crowd is having a different experience; the amazing things you hear about SA are mostly from this crowd, whereas we peons are pretty uniformly having a more frustrating experience, especially versus strippers ITC or OTC

I've met exactly one SA girl for sex right out of the gate. It was a special case where she needed the cash right then, and I was available, and not asking for the moon.

The five others I've met were all for coffee/lunch on the first meet, with no payment, and the two who followed through did so on the first or second "date" after the initial meetup.

The flakes have been numerous, the 10 year old or 30 pounds ago pictures have been many.

The sex has been on par with some of the best with favorite strippers, but none of it has made me want to give up strippers. :)

I can drive to a strip club, see a hot dancer and come to an "arrangement" with her. And I know what she really looks like and I don't have to pay $3500.

Maybe I should just post about financial topics to show off how sophisticated my knowledge of the markets is.

georgmicrodong, how much were you offering and spending on these SA women?

@JS69: Seems to me a gay pride site would be the perfect place for you, Smith.

What is the advantage, if any, to SBing vs OTCing - looks like SBing takes more work and has a bigger failure rate

Always better to find your girls by f2f first meetings, like at a strip club. Or maybe as bar or street hookers, or at a civilian night club. Don't go by any kind of ads.

SJG

I've had really good luck on SA and I don't spend anywhere near $3500. Dates are always at my place (so zero hotel bills) and zero shopping trips or gifts. I've read that the average arrangement lasts 6 weeks, but my last two were 4 months and 10 months, respectively.

I broke it off with the last one and I've been clubbing heavily lately. I did meet someone I'm infatuated with at one of the no-contact strip clubs nearby. She's 19 and really something. So far just one lunch date, and got back from the date a few hours ago. She's a sophomore and pre-law.

To first order, I would say there's one supply-and-demand curve that applies to both SA and strippers. However strippers seem to be better at gauging their own self worth and tend to be slightly more expensive. Every single stripper I've gotten to know has come from some type of dysfunctional family -- usually involving their dad and alcohol. In contrast, the SA college girls have been perfectly normal and from better family backgrounds than my own.

Like @NanoDong, I just do unpaid coffee dates at first, which weeds out escorts. Maybe the biggest problem with the younger girls on SA is the "toe-dippers" and the "platonics." The "toe-dippers" are not sure if they want to go through with sleeping with older guys and flake out. The "platonics" seem to think someone will pay thousands of dollars to go out to dinner without sex.

Just a flood of college girls in my area...

Okay, I am new to SA and I guess I'll throw my recent first SA meeting in this thread. I met a 25 year old black girl from Africa who is living with a host family in the USA. In her photos she had an ok face and a hot body. I guessed that her face would look better in person than it did in her photos and I was correct. She was attractive in person but didn't dress well to show herself off. Also, I would guess that she is older than the age stated on her profile. Finally it was a put off that she talked too much about SA and an arrangement on the date. I think the date should be to find out if you are compatible with each other and then talk business afterwards.

Meanwhile I'm also trying to setup a date with a South American girl who also appears to be living with a host family.

Yahtzee, two women who are foreigners living with host families makes a pattern. Is that on purpose, are you thinking there's some sort of advantage there?

IMO, the first part of the initial meet and greet is best used for compatibility, but if you like each other, no harm in working out deets for per-meeting allowance at the end of the date, while you're both feeling it

It's not on their profiles so I had no idea when I first messaged them. I didn't even know they were foreign let alone living with host families. I only found out after trying to coordinate free time for a date.

** Update**

Found some good options as of last week that have more realistic allowance expectations.

Girl #1 - Was a bit shocked when she agreed to a couple hundred. I then suggested a meet and greet, she asked how much I was going to pay for that, duh. She has read my message but didn't reply back. I wasn't offering an allowance for the meet and greet but offered to pay any other expenses for the meet. (coffee, drinks, meal, etc.) I may follow up with her later if my other options don't work out.

Girl #2 - Was supposed to meet this one at the mall on Sunday afternoon for coffee. She didn't ask for anything to meet. She cancelled on me a couple of hours before saying she was sick and asked to postpone for another day. I'm not really buying this story, although it could be true. However, I see her online every few hours, makes me wonder. If the actual date ever happens she says I can pay her whatever I feel comfortable with.

Girl #3 - Texted this one up on Sunday evening. Next day I see she texted back at two in the morning to tell me her phone was dead. lol. We talked a bit today over text, haven't scheduled a meet yet. Kind of holding out for girl #2 right now to see if that is a go. She wants 250 for the first date, which is fine, but every successive date should be a bit more, says her sd's in the past have done this. Hmmm not too sure what to make of that.

Sorry but all that sounds pretty-flaky to me

Papi, what day_trader described is par for the course, pretty much. The flake level can be difficult to deal with if you have trouble with such things...