Besides run of the mill shorting, there's also Bitcoin futures and Bitcoin options. (And for the super believers/fearless looks like you can even put your IRA in Bitcoin. Lol!)
When the stock markets were raging before the financial meltdown beginning in 05, a buddy went to work at MCI World com. Instant mutli-millionaire with all the stock options. Five years later, during a drunken game of poker, someone bet $10.00 and he pulled a stack of paper out of his briefcase and said call: 75,000 shares of MCI. The bettor said: "were's the other nine dollars"? That's bitcoin.
Dougster, why don't you just buy 1 Bitcoin? Seeing as how it's a global phenomenon, I doubt that it will become worthless overnight (it didn't last time, nor the time before that). Worst case risk: you lose ~80% of the value of your purchase before you decide to sell during a particular bad downturn. Best case medium-term reward: Bitcoin is the dominant cryptocurrency that a large portion of the western world uses on a daily basis and it's value goes north of $10,000, which is about a 400% increase from present value. Heck, maybe it goes even higher than $10k. Nobody knows. Then you can sell 0.5 Bitcoins and use the profits in your favorite strip club.
How does that risk/reward ratio compare to US equities?
And, if it's value doesn't change much, you're feeling too lazy to sell it, and you are particularly daring, then you can spend it on the black market.
Ethereum is certainly interesting but I am going to pass on buying very much right now. I think the foundations and future potential is there to replace BitCoin, but the maturity isn't there yet (too many security holes thus far, not the infrastructure that BitCoin has).
Despite this the market cap ran up to 1/2 of BitCoin's! Seems a little overdone to me, but I guess that depends if they think they quickly mitigate any known attack, and how easy is it would be to add onto/replace existing BitCoin infrastructure.
So if you guys don't mind sharing, where do you buy your bitcoins? From a shady dude after they picked you up blindfolded you and took you to a wharehouse? Or is it with one of the big online wallets. Or are you doing it on an exchange?
@twentyfive, might want to inform yourself on the technology to ensure nothing happens to those bitcoins. I don't understand these things in detail, but these keywords should lead you in the right direction: "segwit" "softfork" "hardfork" "bip148" "uasf"
Also, might want to look up bitcoin "cold storage."
I decided to go with a couple of the alt coins. A third one I still need to read up on. Gonna wire some money over in the morning. I played around a bit on the exchanges this weekend. Price action is just crazy. Think I'll take off work to analyze it and write a bot soon.
I read there was a 19% drop in the price of Bitcoin in just the last few days.
I barely even heard about it. If gold or stocks dropped that much that fast, it would be all over the news. I can just imagine a guy buying Bitcoin at $2200 a coin and reading a few days later, if the price does not drop below $1200 a coin, it is still in a bullish technical pattern and thinking wtf.
Looks like a 19% swing in a day either way is no big deal for Bitcoin. The altcoins are even more volatile.
I guess I should thank TUSCL and trackstar in particular for pointing me at it. The things you can learn on a strip club message board! In time we'll see if this is of even greater importance than RickyBoy's The System.
Someone once posted we discuss all the important stuff here. Money, sex, and I forgot the third.
In other news, I found a new way to fall asleep, listen to a long video on call option strategies. I understood it all except I need to review what was meant by rolling over an weekly option into a spread. I suppose that's a call and put spread or maybe a spread between a stock and the covered call.
One useful thing I learned tonight is a poor man's covered call. I'm just wondering if it's allowed in Ira accounts and what happens if a call you sold ever gets exercised and you have a 2 year leaps call instead of actual shares.
Dougster, do you know?
If I went back in time, I think I would have majored in finance instead of a technical field. I'm actually interested in all this financial information. Stayed up to 130am watching free option strategy videos. That's probably a better use of my time rather than playing a poker app. I already know how to beat the SP500 index by 2 or 3 times supposedly. I'll eventually find out.
Free tip to become a millionaire. You need multiple streams of income. I read a number of millionaires became millinaires after developing at least 3 different income streams or income generation.
@random: if you think BTC is bad, have a look at ETH.
I talked myself out of ETH and went with the coin I thought had the best technology. My choice is keeping up with BTC, but ETH is walloping both of them. I'm worried that the ETH technology is unproven and has a very shaky track record and if mass adopted (at this stage) could be a great vehicle for viruses. Guess I overthought that one. :-)
@shark: you should be able to do option spreads in IRAs. Depending how it is setup though, be careful: some brokers will get nervous once the short leg is ITM. They have the right to close any of your position at any time if they are worried they'll get exercised. I've heard stories that some have not always done it thoughtfully either. Maybe some brokers can handle it though. I would call them and ask.
My IRA has option level 3, but I've never done an option spread with it.
sharkhunter --> "Free tip to become a millionaire. You need multiple streams of income."
Good tip. I am starting to think this is the case, too!
OT: I still don't understand some people's fascination with gambling or poker? I often get the feeling I'm risking my hard earned money needlessly. To each his or her own.
I guess Dominic never watched Rounders. "Why does this still seem like gambling to you? Why is it that same five guys make the final table of the World Series of Poker every year? What? Are these just the luckiest guys in all of Vegas?"
No, I've never watched Rounds so I wouldn't know what that is.
Briefly when a roommate and I had satellite TV, he would watch World Series of Poker. It did seem, when he explained it, that the champion players where almost run like NASCAR teams (funding, sponsors, business plan, strategy, train like it's a sport).
But I'm not talking about pro level poker. I'm talking about the amateur hour stuff I read about on Tuscl (get rich quick). But maybe it just occurred me me that I'm not giving you poker aficionados enough credit. See, this is why I love Tuscl. No where else can I find out how to learn this stuff!
Is the trick to wager money that isn't yours? Or do you just get over the whole 'I wagering my hard earned money' part? I think both are my mental blocks that are keeping me back from success.
Also there seem to be some market play related to Bitcoin: NVDA and AMD. These have the added safety feature that GPUs are big in AI as well, so even if the Bitcoin were a bubble that does burst, AI/cloud demand should still put a floor under these stocks. (NVDA has a pretty nice market cap, AMD's extremely low (but they are losing money.))
Any other plays in none crypocurrency markets related to Bitcoin? I'm sure I've only spotted the low hanging fruit so far.
Dougster -->"So if you guys don't mind sharing, where do you buy your bitcoins? From a shady dude after they picked you up blindfolded you and took you to a wharehouse?"
^^ This. I don't use an exchange and an online wallet seems risky. The BTC I have I take on barter from others. Some of them are shady, paranoid, or outright criminal hackers.
Exchanges needs banking info and are usually used by those financially established, IMO.
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https://themerkle.com/top-7-ways-to-shor…
Besides run of the mill shorting, there's also Bitcoin futures and Bitcoin options. (And for the super believers/fearless looks like you can even put your IRA in Bitcoin. Lol!)
Along the way I found there is an ETF for it: GBTC. It trades at $405, while it's NAV is around $220. Lol!
Needless to say shorting it must look very attractive to many, but my broker has it listed as hard to borrow.
How does that risk/reward ratio compare to US equities?
And, if it's value doesn't change much, you're feeling too lazy to sell it, and you are particularly daring, then you can spend it on the black market.
Lol!
Despite this the market cap ran up to 1/2 of BitCoin's! Seems a little overdone to me, but I guess that depends if they think they quickly mitigate any known attack, and how easy is it would be to add onto/replace existing BitCoin infrastructure.
Also, might want to look up bitcoin "cold storage."
http://bitcoinrestaurants.net/
I barely even heard about it. If gold or stocks dropped that much that fast, it would be all over the news. I can just imagine a guy buying Bitcoin at $2200 a coin and reading a few days later, if the price does not drop below $1200 a coin, it is still in a bullish technical pattern and thinking wtf.
I guess I should thank TUSCL and trackstar in particular for pointing me at it. The things you can learn on a strip club message board! In time we'll see if this is of even greater importance than RickyBoy's The System.
Wow, if that rise in the bitcoin index doesn't look exponential! I say tulipmania.
In other news, I found a new way to fall asleep, listen to a long video on call option strategies. I understood it all except I need to review what was meant by rolling over an weekly option into a spread. I suppose that's a call and put spread or maybe a spread between a stock and the covered call.
One useful thing I learned tonight is a poor man's covered call. I'm just wondering if it's allowed in Ira accounts and what happens if a call you sold ever gets exercised and you have a 2 year leaps call instead of actual shares.
Dougster, do you know?
That was me. "Gold, guns, girls". Substitute in "bitcoin" these days.
Anyone have the cajones to short treasuries these days?
I talked myself out of ETH and went with the coin I thought had the best technology. My choice is keeping up with BTC, but ETH is walloping both of them. I'm worried that the ETH technology is unproven and has a very shaky track record and if mass adopted (at this stage) could be a great vehicle for viruses. Guess I overthought that one. :-)
My IRA has option level 3, but I've never done an option spread with it.
Good tip. I am starting to think this is the case, too!
OT: I still don't understand some people's fascination with gambling or poker? I often get the feeling I'm risking my hard earned money needlessly. To each his or her own.
Briefly when a roommate and I had satellite TV, he would watch World Series of Poker. It did seem, when he explained it, that the champion players where almost run like NASCAR teams (funding, sponsors, business plan, strategy, train like it's a sport).
But I'm not talking about pro level poker. I'm talking about the amateur hour stuff I read about on Tuscl (get rich quick). But maybe it just occurred me me that I'm not giving you poker aficionados enough credit. See, this is why I love Tuscl. No where else can I find out how to learn this stuff!
You are full of surprises, Dougster.
Thanks, Dougster.
Any other plays in none crypocurrency markets related to Bitcoin? I'm sure I've only spotted the low hanging fruit so far.
^^ This. I don't use an exchange and an online wallet seems risky. The BTC I have I take on barter from others. Some of them are shady, paranoid, or outright criminal hackers.
Exchanges needs banking info and are usually used by those financially established, IMO.