OTC only when....
larryfisherman
California
How common do you see a stripper that will only be open to OTC when:
A. She's comfortable with you, she's gotten to know you, this takes several visits ITC
or
B. She doesn't fuck customers OTC, but if you're willing to pay JS69 rates she might be open to making an exception.
Have you ever did OTC with these type of girls?
A. She's comfortable with you, she's gotten to know you, this takes several visits ITC
or
B. She doesn't fuck customers OTC, but if you're willing to pay JS69 rates she might be open to making an exception.
Have you ever did OTC with these type of girls?
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79 comments
My take is that it's binary. They already made the decision if they will or they won't and which particular customer asks has almost no influence on their decision.
10% seems way to high. Maybe 10% will even try to spin that tail. But we all know better than to believe anything that strippers say.
Am I writing in assuming JS69 rates are around $1000/session?
As far as A -- taking several visits to score OTC -- that's more than 50% of the time. I don't know why or how you guys are having 90% success rate at getting a stripper to go OTC with you the first time you meet her. Maybe the difference lies in the fact that I SC in what passes as our high-end absolutely-no-extras clubs, the girls who work there have specifically chosen to work in a no-extras environment, so it's not merely a matter of convincing a girl who is already fucking all her customers ITC, to just do the same thing OTC. The vast majority of these girls are fucking exactly none of their customers ITC, so fucking OTC may be a bit more of a leap. In any case, unless I"m doing something horribly wrong, not a single one of you would get 90% of strippers at the clubs I go to, to go OTC with you on the first trip. I can see if you SC at Detroit or Follies or similar clubs, then most of the girls might be OTC-friendly.
If you claim case A is rare, what kinds of clubs do you SC at?
I'm not, and I'm okay with that.
And, yes, I believe that JS69 stated in a distant post that he spends about $1,000 on OTC. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
I agree with those that say it's not really difficult to convince a semi prostitute to ply her trade.
Maybe the rates were a bit higher, but it was the same story: they had either already made up their mind it was something they were willing to do, or it wasn't something they were willing to do. Waiting just seemed to work against you. (Probably because it conveys the sense that you're willing to pay without the OTC and/or generally get strung along.)
But who knows, maybe LA is much different than anywhere I every visited, for whatever reason.
i'm not too bummed about it because i figured it would be a long shot.
twentyfive-->"I have never found it difficult in any club to find an OTC girl"
25, that's not what we're arguing about though, I don't think. I have never found it difficult to find "an OTC girl" either ... I'm saying, though, that if you randomly pick any particular girl, 50% chance at least she won't go OTC with you the first time you meet her, where Dougster is saying 90% chance she will -- 90% of the girls at any club, even high end no extras clubs, will go OTC with you for reasonable rates, like $300. That's not in my experience. I AGREE with your quoted statement: yes, of course, at any club you'll find an OTC girl. That doesn't mean 90% will. I'm further saying, that although most will balk at first, with a very high success rate you can change their mind.
But, another factor to explore:
Dougster-->"they had either already made up their mind it was something they were willing to do, or it wasn't something they were willing to do. Waiting just seemed to work against you."
How do you know about the waiting working against you? Did you often pursue girls who said "I don't know", "I'll think about it", etc.? Obviously enough, I DO always continue to pursue, unless I get a clear firm "no" that I actually believe. In 2 or 3 trips, I almost always turn them around. If I didn't do that, OTCs would be less common for me. I only drop it completely if I've gone another 2 (maybe 3 max if she's spectacular) trips and she hasn't relented
Although my first successful attempt was with a girl that needed to be assured she was safe with me. So seeing her at the club a few times before I broached the subject likely helped.
As a result I haven't asked a girl on first meeting. I need a few visits to decide if she's really my type or the type I'd want to see OTC anyway.
No, that's not what the question was. The question was out of the ones who will do OTC, how many of them need to wait several visits before they are comfortable with you OR have you offer them JS rates. We are talking Bayesian probabilities here. Lol!
Also, yes, I base my conclusion on girls I asked early on, and those I didn't ask early on.
Lol!
Damn Vikings I thought you had it :( At least you're getting the action ITC.
As I said to John, the ones who you think you are talking into you aren't. They just strung you along longer than they would most guys or ended up charging you more. Because they got the sense from you that they it was important for you to believe they are more discriminate then they are. Maybe not a reality you or John want to hear but The Truth.
Lol!
Lol!
Of course, they can sort guys like this better than us guys can imagine.
Make one offer and make it your final one. They'll know. Do it early on. Plenty of fish in the sea.
And to the guy who said he never tried asking the first time. Try asking the first time. I think the results would surprise you. The only caveat is that you can't always ask the first time b/c yourself might be getting a feel for the club and area, so you yourself don't know if this is the girl you want to OTC with. Often you will know, however.
There will always be a select few girls at higher end girls that have a line of PLs waiting to throw money at them for a chance to fuck them. The smart ones... pass on fucking multiple PLs and search for a few of PLs that will be a steady flow of cash.
Think you're a whale? Try renting a condo for your favorite stripper, or making her car payment. There's guys out there doing that, who are much higher than us in the $350K club! lol
So if someone had an SA type exclusive arrangement would they still allow their girls to work in strip club on the side?
Haven't not looked into the SA too deeply. Superficially it seemed kind of amusing.
I agree that women are very good at reading men.
While there are girls reading and manipulating guys just as described, it is part of the game for me to get what I want, top shelf girl, OTC, with an accompanying GFE... I'm not so blind to know that I'm replaceable just as they are too me but my experience is that some girls are looking for quality over quantity, just like me. Is that worth a little more? It is to me. Does it piss off some guys who want a multiple hour GFE,OTC for $150-$200? Yes...
B especially, since the law of diminishing returns definitely applies. A $1,000 lay with a girl who really has to force herself to do it is not a place you want to be. I've done this a couple of times in my life - not 1,000 but more than I should have - and it always ended up being a sterile experience. I would never pay that much to get a girl out. If she won't do it for $300-400 (depending upon location), then I don't want her at $1,000.
A happens all the time, contrary to goofy troll comments. Not only for rapport reasons, but even simply for the girl to be sure that you're not LE. Shit, even some escorts are picky about who they have sex with. Why wouldn't some strippers be, when they already have an income stream? Now there are also plenty of extras girls who are not so selective, but they will usually let you know pretty quickly that OTC is available, either directly or through not so subtle hints that a solicitation is welcome.
The ones who don't make an offer and then reject your initial attempts are going to fall into one of two categories: Girls with potential and those who never will. Just learn to differentiate between the two and don't burn vast amounts of time and/or money chasing the latter. After doing this for a while, you should be able to gain a sense as to which personality types fall into which category.
Good luck.
This is how out of touch the guys on the other side are, folks.
Like I said comical hard to believe that people serious think this way.
Seems to me more likely he was just scrambling to save face after we pointed out that guys who wait a long time and just keep asking are most likely just getting strung along. Trying to keep people from coming to the most likely explanation.
But if we are to believe him: More than 50% of girls wouldn't do it the first time he asks. At that point he stops spending money. But they keep coming around, and eventually they almost all give in. And he never gets strung along.
I'd be pretty awesome if I pulled that off! But, when I said not another dime, it was in the context of how much I offer for OTC -- I usually have put out a dollar offer the first time I ask, in any case. This was in the context of your theory that the girls have such finely honed sales instincts that they "know" I want to be told no (which in fact I don't), which is a sales superpower that not even the SW girls claim, but is needed to match the theory of stripper behavior you've constructed.
I ask early on, within 1-3 visits and these days closer to one. If I get a yes, we're golden. If I get a no and I get the feeling that won't change, I'm out. If it's a "I need to think about it", and I feel like she's waffling, I'll stick around for a couple more trips to see if I can change her mind: and a pretty fair percentage of time, she does. I typically don't stay more than another 3 max, since as we know, a lot of girls say "I need to think about it" to string customers along.
The weird thing here is, how it is you think you KNOW that girls don't change their mind. You said above that it's basically futile and humiliating to keep at it -- which means, I gather, you don't. So if you haven't done it, how do you KNOW it doesn't work? My theory: you don't -- but you need to believe it, so the stripper theory you have doesn't fall apart. I go on the actual experiences I've had, not a theory that I've built on a house of confirmation bias
And you hear enough stories about guys who just get strung along (either from them directly or from strippers) that you don't actually have the play the chump yourself to figure it.
Sounds to me like you are the guy who is getting played as the chump alot, we caught you on it, now you are coming up with more and more elaborate stories to try and avoid. that.
Can't wait to see what the next version of your story is...
- There's some girls in the club who say yes to OTC, first time. I'm guessing that's just like everyone else.
- There's some girls in the club who give a strong no to OTC. I'm guessing that's just like everyone else.
- There's some girls in the club who say no, I need to think about it, etc. I'm guessing that's just like everyone else.
My sense is, for the bottom two cases below, nearly all of you just move on. All I'm saying -- again, a truthful recitation of my experience -- is that I pursue the case 3 girls, typically set a limit of 2-3 trips, and often enough, they'll relent. I don't offer a huge amount of $, and no more handsome and charming than Juice, so I'm saying, it's likely if most of you guys did pursue, you'd be converting them too. I understand if you can't be bothered.
I realize if you've built a theoretical world of stripper behavior, you either cannot believe I'm telling the truth, or need to assign wild theories to explain it. I understand.
Meanwhile, you're so committed to your theory that you're desperately assigning the strippers super power to tell I "want" to be strung along .... lol
There's nobody on TUSCL that remotely resembles that description.
Under 30? That's true but how about being a bit more precise. Try under 16.
Perfect that he responded just after me.
Anyone can tell that JS is one naive guy very prone to fantasy just by reading a small random sampling of his posts here. You, OTOH, seem a bit more down to earth except when it comes to this topic. Why is so important for you to believe they are do things exclusively for you?
https://www.tuscl.net/?page=post&id=4629…
Any, big tip off to what you ultimately feel is going on.
I've also noticed there is a quite a correlation between ego size. E.g. JS69 and RickyBoy are two of the biggest egos on the board (although RickyBoy is way ahead here) and this type of belief. Doesn't surprise me much since it's well known that having egos that big pretty much requires a "vivid fantasy life".
I saw the bait in the other thread but am too weary to bite. Thanks for the thoughts....it is clear where you stand on the topic.
SJG
SJG
Next, what you need to do is accept her position, so you need to find out what that is:
-Does she have a boyfriend she loves? That's okay. You don't want feelings. Just fun like fwb's.
-Is she scared of catching something? You will wear a cover.
-Does she have no attraction to you at all? You don't expect her to.
-Is she scared of girls hearing and starting drama? You don't tell girls anything ab other girls (If you are doing this, stop right now!!).
You do need to answer these objections, if you can't afford to skip them by offering enough money.
If she is just saying "I don't do that. Whoring makes you a whore and I'm not a whore." There are prolly some of the above mentioned objections and she's just not telling you, but this can be answered also. Just tell her that you don't have time for a relationship, but if you did, that girl would be fucking you, and you'd take care of her some, just like any boyfriend or husband. It's just how things are. So if a girl is taking care of your needs, you naturally want be there for her, but you can't, so you'll give her money to take care of things she needs. I have found that both women and men get this logic and it makes stuff feel less like p4p. It also gives you a built in defense against her asking for extra help w bullshit like her bills and expenses.
Some guys have argued that objections are only to get more money. Since everything has it's price, its kinda true, but you still need to answer them. The cheaper whores will be easier to get bc they have answered their own objections w their price. A girl who doesn't normally do this will need to be walked through it. Ironically, my experience w this has been in convincing my guy friends to switch from needy mistresses, to arrangements w their side ladies for the sake of less emotional manipulation to get stuff from them (money).
The OTC girl I'm referring to at the beginning of the thread is not the same girl as the pay for time girl. That makes sense though, doing the pay for time first and getting comfortable with each other OTC first before the sex lol. I might actually do that with both of these girls.
Yeah I'm just looking to fuck, nothing serious or committed.
" I wasn't sure how much money she was expecting, in my head I was thinking she'd probably be expecting 200, but that was just a guess on my part. You think 100 is good enough? I'd be comfortable doing 100, that seems fair"
Instead of guessing you could ask her. Or tell her. I was going to get 4 dances from you today. With a tip that would be 100.
What will you get for her time? It could be just drinks. I'd make sure to know what to expect before agreeing.