How common do you see a stripper that will only be open to OTC when: A. She's comfortable with you, she's gotten to know you, this takes several visits ITC or B. She doesn't fuck customers OTC, but if you're willing to pay JS69 rates she might be open to making an exception.
Have you ever did OTC with these type of girls?
I agree with that Dougster as far as most of the strippers. But I do think (especially with the getting to know you, some are definitely fearful of customers being crazy OTC) that maybe 10% of the strippers that might be at some time open to OTC fall under those two points I listed.
If you pay a girl like that for otc, it should be only be for her having missed work to spend time w you and not js69 rates. Any girl I know would love for you to come get her and pay her fine and take her to dinner, and then give her ab 100 for her missing the opportunity to make money at work. This would have girls fighting over you at my club. If she still isn't comfortable w you, find a different one. Don't waste too much time and money trying to build up a relationship if she's not instetested in what you want pretty fast.
Alot of guys on this board are under the delusion they are doing something other than just paying hookers for sex. So they come with the non-sense that the hookers they are paying for sex are very discriminate. It's what they want to believe. Of course they know that if they say that on TUSCL it won't pass the laugh test, so they come up with the compromise positions you suggest, hoping that at least that will fly and help convince themselves of what they really want to believe.
10% seems way to high. Maybe 10% will even try to spin that tail. But we all know better than to believe anything that strippers say.
I have trouble dredging through all the crap JS69 posts. I'd say I skip past 95% of it as tl;dr.
Am I writing in assuming JS69 rates are around $1000/session?
^^^Yeah I assumed somewhere in that ballpark.
I don't do B... I don't have JS money so paying JS rates isn't an option, under any circumstances.
As far as A -- taking several visits to score OTC -- that's more than 50% of the time. I don't know why or how you guys are having 90% success rate at getting a stripper to go OTC with you the first time you meet her. Maybe the difference lies in the fact that I SC in what passes as our high-end absolutely-no-extras clubs, the girls who work there have specifically chosen to work in a no-extras environment, so it's not merely a matter of convincing a girl who is already fucking all her customers ITC, to just do the same thing OTC. The vast majority of these girls are fucking exactly none of their customers ITC, so fucking OTC may be a bit more of a leap. In any case, unless I"m doing something horribly wrong, not a single one of you would get 90% of strippers at the clubs I go to, to go OTC with you on the first trip. I can see if you SC at Detroit or Follies or similar clubs, then most of the girls might be OTC-friendly.
If you claim case A is rare, what kinds of clubs do you SC at?
^ I work at a club like this. It does take js rates and that's not even a guarantee for fs. They are also extremely worried ab what other girls will think at the club, bc it's so looked down on. Even for that kind of money. That's why I suggest a small pay for time situation to even establish the comfort zone of otc pay. She's already getting paid otc, and trusts him, so the leap isn't so great.
"Alot of guys on this board are under the delusion they are doing something other than just paying hookers for sex."
I'm not, and I'm okay with that.
And, yes, I believe that JS69 stated in a distant post that he spends about $1,000 on OTC. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Yeah I club in LA, extras clubs are plentiful. If I wanted a high end no extras club I would just do 4 Play. I'll differ to you Subra on this because you have a lot more experience on this. Based on what I saw on TUSCL and my limited experience is how I came to conclusion that A isn't too common.
larry: I think that's the best explanation as to why I sometimes feel like I"m in bizarro-land here. Tuscl is no different from most SC-focused forums: the vast majority of discussion focuses around extras clubs, and the vast majority of customers are ITC extras customers. And that was my situation too, until the SF SC scene imploded 10 years ago. Now, I rarely do ITC extras because the price and experiences just aren't that great ... most of the time, a rub-n-tug is a better experience for a lower price, frankly. So, I go to where the girls are beautiful (the alcohol-serving no-extras clubs), enjoy drinking with them ITC (which I truly love, it's an end in itself), and nearly all my sex-with-strippers is OTC ... with strippers who are very strictly non-extras girls. If you want to see what the difference is, just go to your nearest high-end no-extras clubs, and see how many girls you can get to agree to join you OTC, the very first time you meet them, for non-JS prices. It is definitively the case that: most of the girls are picky as to who they'll OTC with, you will need to see them a few times to talk them into it. More than 50%. Maybe closer to 70%. Or, you can offer $1000, I reckon that works often.
I have never looked for extras in any club I go to in over thirty five years of clubbing I have never found it difficult in any club to find an OTC girl and over the years I have had a few non extras types meet with me regularly A few have even told me they don't do this wit anyone other than myself one or two I beleived because she was happy for me to come over to her apartment without any advance notice, after her son had left for school and would gladly make me a coffe pot in the AM and I would drop over sometime when she wasn't expecting me in the evening and both her son and mom were home, but we only had sex in the AM when her son was at school and her mom at work. In return I often went clubbing with her at different clubs and most weekends we would go for dinner on either Friday or Saturday evenings. I agree with those that say it's not really difficult to convince a semi prostitute to ply her trade.
It was never my sense that girls in "high end no-extras" clubs needed more time "to get comfortable with you" before doing OTC with you or would only do it "for JS rates".
Maybe the rates were a bit higher, but it was the same story: they had either already made up their mind it was something they were willing to do, or it wasn't something they were willing to do. Waiting just seemed to work against you. (Probably because it conveys the sense that you're willing to pay without the OTC and/or generally get strung along.)
But who knows, maybe LA is much different than anywhere I every visited, for whatever reason.
^^^Not really Dougster I think the younger less experienced Clubber's just really don't know how to play it. A few years back when I was in LA I really didn't have much of a problem finding girls to come meet me at my hotel at rates I considered reasonable usually less than $350. And the good part is with strippers it would be all night as I never have actually called an escort but I hear that they are very rigid with their time.
my CF, who i've seen in the club several times, isn't going to meet me OTC :-(
i'm not too bummed about it because i figured it would be a long shot.
I'm in SF, not LA, but I too wouldn't think it'd be much different -- high end no extras club is high end no extras club. No idea why so many girls turn me down at first. You guys obviously have the RICH STUD factor going on.
twentyfive-->"I have never found it difficult in any club to find an OTC girl"
25, that's not what we're arguing about though, I don't think. I have never found it difficult to find "an OTC girl" either ... I'm saying, though, that if you randomly pick any particular girl, 50% chance at least she won't go OTC with you the first time you meet her, where Dougster is saying 90% chance she will -- 90% of the girls at any club, even high end no extras clubs, will go OTC with you for reasonable rates, like $300. That's not in my experience. I AGREE with your quoted statement: yes, of course, at any club you'll find an OTC girl. That doesn't mean 90% will. I'm further saying, that although most will balk at first, with a very high success rate you can change their mind.
But, another factor to explore:
Dougster-->"they had either already made up their mind it was something they were willing to do, or it wasn't something they were willing to do. Waiting just seemed to work against you."
How do you know about the waiting working against you? Did you often pursue girls who said "I don't know", "I'll think about it", etc.? Obviously enough, I DO always continue to pursue, unless I get a clear firm "no" that I actually believe. In 2 or 3 trips, I almost always turn them around. If I didn't do that, OTCs would be less common for me. I only drop it completely if I've gone another 2 (maybe 3 max if she's spectacular) trips and she hasn't relented
^^^ and besides GoViking! prefers dudes anyway.
I really don't know, I have never tried on first meeting. But it does seem most have either decided they will or will not. Money probably will not flip any, and those that will just comes down to price.
Although my first successful attempt was with a girl that needed to be assured she was safe with me. So seeing her at the club a few times before I broached the subject likely helped.
As a result I haven't asked a girl on first meeting. I need a few visits to decide if she's really my type or the type I'd want to see OTC anyway.
Wow. Dougster reads 5% of my posts. I'm surprised he has that much attention span.
If you think all whores are the same and will fuck any guy who asks and can pay the price, that's because those are the type of whores that you are always hiring. But if a stripper refuses sex, but you eventually convince her to fuck you, then you will have some idea of the types of whores that I prefer.
subraman: "50% chance at least she won't go OTC with you the first time you meet her, where Dougster is saying 90% chance she will"
No, that's not what the question was. The question was out of the ones who will do OTC, how many of them need to wait several visits before they are comfortable with you OR have you offer them JS rates. We are talking Bayesian probabilities here. Lol!
Also, yes, I base my conclusion on girls I asked early on, and those I didn't ask early on.
@JS69: Nope, it's b/c they see you as a chump who they can string along for some time and then charge more money too. If it was someone who more down to earth they would be fucking them for less in fewer times of meeting them. You must have a big "C" tatoo'ed on your forehead for them to see.
Lol!
And, how do I know this, from reading reviews of the dupes who post that so and so won't do such and such, or requires a very high price or needs to know you first. I've often just laughed at these reviews since my experience with those girls was quite the opposite.
Ah ... okay, what I"m saying is this: In my experience, a pretty decent % of girls agree to OTC early on, but a pretty decent % of girls do not. Of those who do not, I end taking many of them OTC within 2 or 3 more trips. Maybe I'm the RICH STUD here, if you guys can't match my conversion rate :) I'll leave it as a separate exercise as to why a girl might say "I don't know" "no", or whatever, and then change her mind. My own guess is that it's partly trust/safety, partly the risk of losing someone who is now a good customer if she doesn't play (I am pretty clear that, no hard feelings, but I'm moving on), etc. Just a guess, no stripper has ever sat down and explained it to me.
No the question was with the girls who would only open to OTC under those two circumstances.
Damn Vikings I thought you had it :( At least you're getting the action ITC.
I think it's optimal to ask early on, by which I mean in the first three visits. And then first or second time is better than the third. After the third time I think your odds plunge. One thing I would do is ask again after the first "no". That leads you into the chumps game of getting strung along. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. I just move onto another.
As I said to John, the ones who you think you are talking into you aren't. They just strung you along longer than they would most guys or ended up charging you more. Because they got the sense from you that they it was important for you to believe they are more discriminate then they are. Maybe not a reality you or John want to hear but The Truth.
Lol!
And, of course, I meant "would not do is ask multiple times". Beyond being ineffective that just seems pathetic. Like I say even if you do think they are giving into you but nobody, that's just them playing into what you want to believe, and taking your money and time along the way. Is it worth it to guys like you and John who are big on pretend? Maybe. So maybe you are getting what you want. For me I just want to fuck them. To each their own.
Lol!
@Subraman I do get what you are saying I believe that 50% number is on the low side I also believe tha@Dougsters90% number is a bit high I also believe that some of the girls are a bit particular in who they go OTC with if you go by @JS69s numbers I think he has a different idea of who these girls are from the reality that he actually believes to what is real I guess I just called him delusional but I think many here are or at least don't get where people are coming from Like I have stated thes women that we love to play with are in many cases broken and that will not change. Some more than others that's my take feel fre to disagree.
Agree, ask within first 3 visits. I've never paid more for a girl for waiting another couple of trips, not one dime, and I definitely do not give moneybag vibes, if anything the opposite. I also think it is in itself a fantasy that a drunk stripper can tell I "want to be strung along". The explanation that fits best, despite the positions of the guys whose main objective is to pose on the group as being most hardcore, rather than simplest explanation: strippers are actually people, and sometimes there's a comfort thing or any other number of reasons they might say no after a single visit, which in a couple of visits more, can be addressed. Whatever it is, her reading that I want to be told no is a bit far-fetched to me.
Oh, no. Women are very good at reading guys in general. It's second nature to them. Scratch that. It's first nature. And if they are doing it professionally on top of that? Get the fuck out of here!
Of course, they can sort guys like this better than us guys can imagine.
Make one offer and make it your final one. They'll know. Do it early on. Plenty of fish in the sea.
And to the guy who said he never tried asking the first time. Try asking the first time. I think the results would surprise you. The only caveat is that you can't always ask the first time b/c yourself might be getting a feel for the club and area, so you yourself don't know if this is the girl you want to OTC with. Often you will know, however.
Well, I drank the koolaid too Dougstar, because I think there are a percentage of top shelf girls that are very selective and doing it with only a pl or two OTC.
Top Shelf Girls:
There will always be a select few girls at higher end girls that have a line of PLs waiting to throw money at them for a chance to fuck them. The smart ones... pass on fucking multiple PLs and search for a few of PLs that will be a steady flow of cash.
Think you're a whale? Try renting a condo for your favorite stripper, or making her car payment. There's guys out there doing that, who are much higher than us in the $350K club! lol
@bubba: I see. And what percentage is it. In your opinion?
@shailynn: I don't know. Maybe. SA exists after all. I haven't heard about any such whales for many years though. Thought they had all died out. Maybe the booming economy has brought some of them back though.
So if someone had an SA type exclusive arrangement would they still allow their girls to work in strip club on the side?
Haven't not looked into the SA too deeply. Superficially it seemed kind of amusing.
I've been playing around on SA for about 6-8 months now. It is BOOMING as a sex industry medium -- even if a lot of the people on it are in a bit of denial as to whether they're participating in the sex industry. I've had some interesting discoveries, relevant to strippers and strip clubs, to report back sometime soon
You rich guys need to stop driving up the going rate. Your desperation and cavalier attitude towards money isn't doing the rest of us any favors. Lets just keep it reasonable.
There's only one rich guy in the entire thread, man! We keep him around to class up the joint
Nice to see that Dougster actually post something about strippers instead of finance or gay shaming. But we all know it'll never last.
You don't have to be ashamed to be gay, John. It's just the way you were born.
@Dougster- was he "Born This Way" like Lady Gaga?
I agree that women are very good at reading men.
@dougster, for the type I'm talking about, somewhere under 10%. @ shailynn, I'm certainly not a whale, though I could stand to lose a few more pounds. :).
While there are girls reading and manipulating guys just as described, it is part of the game for me to get what I want, top shelf girl, OTC, with an accompanying GFE... I'm not so blind to know that I'm replaceable just as they are too me but my experience is that some girls are looking for quality over quantity, just like me. Is that worth a little more? It is to me. Does it piss off some guys who want a multiple hour GFE,OTC for $150-$200? Yes...
And for clarity, looking back, part of the conversation/question related to first visit success. My 10% would be 2-3 visits, not first visit in a non extras club, with top shelf girl.
You guys are comically dopey, with JohnSmith69 being the lead clown. Once in a blue moon, I'll read some of the slop he posts to remind myself of just how far out some guys on this board are. And get a bit of a chuckle.
Both A and B happen. But both can be a suckers game if you are not careful.
B especially, since the law of diminishing returns definitely applies. A $1,000 lay with a girl who really has to force herself to do it is not a place you want to be. I've done this a couple of times in my life - not 1,000 but more than I should have - and it always ended up being a sterile experience. I would never pay that much to get a girl out. If she won't do it for $300-400 (depending upon location), then I don't want her at $1,000.
A happens all the time, contrary to goofy troll comments. Not only for rapport reasons, but even simply for the girl to be sure that you're not LE. Shit, even some escorts are picky about who they have sex with. Why wouldn't some strippers be, when they already have an income stream? Now there are also plenty of extras girls who are not so selective, but they will usually let you know pretty quickly that OTC is available, either directly or through not so subtle hints that a solicitation is welcome.
The ones who don't make an offer and then reject your initial attempts are going to fall into one of two categories: Girls with potential and those who never will. Just learn to differentiate between the two and don't burn vast amounts of time and/or money chasing the latter. After doing this for a while, you should be able to gain a sense as to which personality types fall into which category.
Good luck.
bubba267: "It takes hard work, intelligence and strategy to do what we do, and yes, many others will envy that success. "
This is how out of touch the guys on the other side are, folks.
Like I said comical hard to believe that people serious think this way.
As for rickyboy. I don't put much stock in anything he comes up with. With is the same guy who took ten years to invent a system which said you couldn't "just ask" you had to be the only guy wearing a suit in a dive club. This not exactly a guy who gets it. Just another guy who wants to fancy himself a "hard working, intelligent, and strategic" genius when all he is doing is paying hookers for sex. Same as anyone else.
@Subraman The reality is that nobody really picks randomly, there are many biases and other issues that come into play, so the only way to know the answer to the actual question asked is to conduct a poll, it appears to me that you, like me sort of pick up on subliminal unintentional clues maybe without even realizing it and that is why our success rate is as high as it is. OTOH the younger guys having not as much experience in general don't do as wall, or maybe they are perceived as not so RICH STUDS or possibly might come across more aggressively, causing a bit of uncertainty that makes these girls put up their guard, or just maybe we seem to be daddy figures to them making it harder for them to refuse, I'm not sure but I enjoy it anyway.
I don't man, I'm just not buying Subraman's story. Supposedly he ask early on. Within the 1-3 visits. And they say no, he doesn't spend "another dime". Yet they keep coming back to him even though he will only go for OTC now and isn't spending a dime otherwise. And even though they said "no" before. And then he converts "a substantial percentage".
Seems to me more likely he was just scrambling to save face after we pointed out that guys who wait a long time and just keep asking are most likely just getting strung along. Trying to keep people from coming to the most likely explanation.
But if we are to believe him: More than 50% of girls wouldn't do it the first time he asks. At that point he stops spending money. But they keep coming around, and eventually they almost all give in. And he never gets strung along.
-->"I don't man, I'm just not buying Subraman's story. Supposedly he ask early on. Within the 1-3 visits. And they say no, he doesn't spend "another dime". Yet they keep coming back to him even though he will only go for OTC now and isn't spending a dime otherwise. And even though they said "no" before. And then he converts "a substantial percentage". "
I'd be pretty awesome if I pulled that off! But, when I said not another dime, it was in the context of how much I offer for OTC -- I usually have put out a dollar offer the first time I ask, in any case. This was in the context of your theory that the girls have such finely honed sales instincts that they "know" I want to be told no (which in fact I don't), which is a sales superpower that not even the SW girls claim, but is needed to match the theory of stripper behavior you've constructed.
I ask early on, within 1-3 visits and these days closer to one. If I get a yes, we're golden. If I get a no and I get the feeling that won't change, I'm out. If it's a "I need to think about it", and I feel like she's waffling, I'll stick around for a couple more trips to see if I can change her mind: and a pretty fair percentage of time, she does. I typically don't stay more than another 3 max, since as we know, a lot of girls say "I need to think about it" to string customers along.
The weird thing here is, how it is you think you KNOW that girls don't change their mind. You said above that it's basically futile and humiliating to keep at it -- which means, I gather, you don't. So if you haven't done it, how do you KNOW it doesn't work? My theory: you don't -- but you need to believe it, so the stripper theory you have doesn't fall apart. I go on the actual experiences I've had, not a theory that I've built on a house of confirmation bias
@Dougster A lot of that I agree with but I also believe the younger guys just keep missing the mark, maybe its impatience. I know from my own experience that it's usually available to me, I can also remember a time in my life when it was a bit awkward but I quickly grew out of that, maybe its just me as I have been managing a business with many employees, over a long period of time, where I expect people to do as I say, but it can't be that alone, because then they start to resent you and you lose good people, who really knows?
@Subraman: Wow, you're really scrambling some more now. First it was you don't spend another dime more, now it's just that you don't up your offer by another dime.
And you hear enough stories about guys who just get strung along (either from them directly or from strippers) that you don't actually have the play the chump yourself to figure it.
Sounds to me like you are the guy who is getting played as the chump alot, we caught you on it, now you are coming up with more and more elaborate stories to try and avoid. that.
Can't wait to see what the next version of your story is...
To re-frame what I'm saying here. My EXPERIENCE, not theory:
There's some girls in the club who say yes to OTC, first time. I'm guessing that's just like everyone else.
There's some girls in the club who give a strong no to OTC. I'm guessing that's just like everyone else.
There's some girls in the club who say no, I need to think about it, etc. I'm guessing that's just like everyone else.
My sense is, for the bottom two cases below, nearly all of you just move on. All I'm saying -- again, a truthful recitation of my experience -- is that I pursue the case 3 girls, typically set a limit of 2-3 trips, and often enough, they'll relent. I don't offer a huge amount of $, and no more handsome and charming than Juice, so I'm saying, it's likely if most of you guys did pursue, you'd be converting them too. I understand if you can't be bothered.
I realize if you've built a theoretical world of stripper behavior, you either cannot believe I'm telling the truth, or need to assign wild theories to explain it. I understand.
Dougster, here's the quote: " I've never paid more for a girl for waiting another couple of trips, not one dime". I was referencing -- obviously I thought, maybe not -- that I do not pay more, that is up my offer. I've been consistent for years in saying I continue to visit them. I know you well enough to know you're going to keep repeating that I claimed not to spend another dime on them in the club, but that wasn't what I was saying.
Meanwhile, you're so committed to your theory that you're desperately assigning the strippers super power to tell I "want" to be strung along .... lol
You know what resources you have; money, time, your pride (for some of you, this must be the biggest one), and it's up to you what you are willing to give up to get what you want. Do you see what we do to get what we want? It's the guys who go around all worried ab playing games who look like chumps to us, but if that's your thing, who cares what the strippers think anyways?
Subraman, don't bother debating with a troll. He doesn't really care about accuracy, he's just trying to get a rise. It's like trying to jerk off with a cast on your hand. It's doomed to end in frustration and the harder you go at it, the more you damage your own junk (all of this equates your junk with your pride in case you were unsure). ;)
@Bj99 So tell me am I correct in my assumption that the younger guys, very often don't really have a good game when it comes to making a connection I don't believe that I have a problem with my ego, it's healthy but I don't feel that I come across as aggressive, would rather be nice in most situations, and that is why the girls find me appealing, along with the fact that I have very little problem spending when I find one who meets my type. In the end it's all about the money but some people don't know how to use it properly.
In general, the younger guys (under 30), actually do very well making a connection when they come in the spend some money and have a good time. They are less guarded and bitter, so it makes the girls more comfortable. The problem is when young guys come in looking to date strippers, which gets their pride and confidence involved and makes them lame. They do stuff like try to get girls to sit and talk to them, but refuse to buy dances (bc they read this crap is how you date), and brag ab all of their dancer friends, or ex girlfriends. They usually wind up sitting off by themselves a lot and hit up every new girl.
@ Bj99 You made a good point about older guys being guarded and bitter I don't think that I am ever bitter my life has been blessed my relationship with my exes and my children is great, but I will admit to being guarded as I have a lot to lose so I do need to be careful about my personal stuff. But again as I have said I consistently get great girls to go out with me all very pretty and willing no hesitation is really noted ( please notice I never said all) I'm reasonably fit look better than many but at 63 I am no longer George Clooney and I do have a fairly large disposable to spend on fun.
"The problem is when young guys come in looking to date strippers, which gets their pride and confidence involved and makes them lame. "
There's nobody on TUSCL that remotely resembles that description.
I agree with bj99. I am under 30, but I just come there with money to spend and I have a good time and I build a good connection with the dancers. I've noticed other guys around my age in the club try to date the girls and don't buy dances. The experienced strippers see through this and just move on to the next customer. Of course I've slipped up a couple times and tried to play Captain Save A Ho, but haven't we all.
^ LOL
Under 30? That's true but how about being a bit more precise. Try under 16.
Perfect that he responded just after me.
@ dougster...don't know whose it is, but last quote attributed to me isn't anything I've said. you have a lot to say about what others are saying that is wrong. Summarize your thoughts on the topic and share. I'm curious
At least not in this thread....
Subraman: Nah, it doesn't require "superhuman powers" for strippers to see that some guys have "chump, let's play him for a bit" written all over them. I'm going to go out on a big limb here and say that you and JS fit that category.
Anyone can tell that JS is one naive guy very prone to fantasy just by reading a small random sampling of his posts here. You, OTOH, seem a bit more down to earth except when it comes to this topic. Why is so important for you to believe they are do things exclusively for you?
bubba: You're right it wasn't in this thread. It was in this one:
Any, big tip off to what you ultimately feel is going on.
I've also noticed there is a quite a correlation between ego size. E.g. JS69 and RickyBoy are two of the biggest egos on the board (although RickyBoy is way ahead here) and this type of belief. Doesn't surprise me much since it's well known that having egos that big pretty much requires a "vivid fantasy life".
@Dougster...thanks for connecting the dots. You are an intelligent guy...just someone with a different view on women and guys that pursue a different level of girl/experience. You may believe it is driven by ego or something other than the pure pursuit of going for something one wants. I don't really follow your random logic but I feel like I know you better now.
I saw the bait in the other thread but am too weary to bite. Thanks for the thoughts....it is clear where you stand on the topic.
Nothing ever works just so simple and is only "paying hookers for sex".
SJG
Larry, have you considered that talking to her like she might be amenable to sex for money, is probably the most negative thing one could do.
SJG
I'm curious ab why you don't want to date this girl. It's not that there aren't plenty of reasons, I'm sure. It's just that dancers wonder what you are after exactly. You really need to know your own needs before you can attempt to negotiate and answer her objections. I think you've said that you are too busy to be in a relationship in other threads. Are you looking for gfe, or just p4p?
Next, what you need to do is accept her position, so you need to find out what that is:
-Does she have a boyfriend she loves? That's okay. You don't want feelings. Just fun like fwb's.
-Is she scared of catching something? You will wear a cover.
-Does she have no attraction to you at all? You don't expect her to.
-Is she scared of girls hearing and starting drama? You don't tell girls anything ab other girls (If you are doing this, stop right now!!).
You do need to answer these objections, if you can't afford to skip them by offering enough money.
If she is just saying "I don't do that. Whoring makes you a whore and I'm not a whore." There are prolly some of the above mentioned objections and she's just not telling you, but this can be answered also. Just tell her that you don't have time for a relationship, but if you did, that girl would be fucking you, and you'd take care of her some, just like any boyfriend or husband. It's just how things are. So if a girl is taking care of your needs, you naturally want be there for her, but you can't, so you'll give her money to take care of things she needs. I have found that both women and men get this logic and it makes stuff feel less like p4p. It also gives you a built in defense against her asking for extra help w bullshit like her bills and expenses.
Some guys have argued that objections are only to get more money. Since everything has it's price, its kinda true, but you still need to answer them. The cheaper whores will be easier to get bc they have answered their own objections w their price. A girl who doesn't normally do this will need to be walked through it. Ironically, my experience w this has been in convincing my guy friends to switch from needy mistresses, to arrangements w their side ladies for the sake of less emotional manipulation to get stuff from them (money).
So what you are really saying @Bj99 is that they should dump their greedy mistresses and make you their greedy mistress. )
Kinda! lol ..I think they should trade emotional manipulation for financial negotions. I'm not available for arrangements tho. :P
^^^But you do seem open to financial negotiations :
Everything's has it's price, but friend zoning guys is more fun than money can buy! ;)
For you, maybe but Daddy don't play that game, Daddy says no honey no money !
@bj99 it's funny you mention the pay for time thing. Just a couple of days ago I was texting with a stripper trying to get her to come in to work that day. She wasn't really feeling it, she said she would rather go get some drinks with me at a bar, and it would better for her because she wouldn't have to pay the club any portion, so then I knew she was expecting me to pay for her time. I wasn't sure how much money she was expecting, in my head I was thinking she'd probably be expecting 200, but that was just a guess on my part. You think 100 is good enough? I'd be comfortable doing 100, that seems fair.
The OTC girl I'm referring to at the beginning of the thread is not the same girl as the pay for time girl. That makes sense though, doing the pay for time first and getting comfortable with each other OTC first before the sex lol. I might actually do that with both of these girls.
Yeah I'm just looking to fuck, nothing serious or committed.
How the hell have you been able to save that much from your paper route?
100 should be good for missing work, if no extras are negotiated. I'd suggest paying for her to leave early and taking her to dinner/bar tho. If there's so booze, it's not a date, and you want a date feel.
Larryfisherman
" I wasn't sure how much money she was expecting, in my head I was thinking she'd probably be expecting 200, but that was just a guess on my part. You think 100 is good enough? I'd be comfortable doing 100, that seems fair"
Instead of guessing you could ask her. Or tell her. I was going to get 4 dances from you today. With a tip that would be 100.
What will you get for her time? It could be just drinks. I'd make sure to know what to expect before agreeing.
@K I think it will be just drinks, that's what she made it seem like. Like bj99 says though it is something to get us comfortable OTC before doing the actual deed in future OTCs.
Sounds like a TUSCL fantasy to pretend it's anything more than just paying hookers for sex.
My take is that it's binary. They already made the decision if they will or they won't and which particular customer asks has almost no influence on their decision.