OT: How Does One Get Rich By Ripping Off The Public, Donald Trump?

I once bought a 3 family house as an investment. I added two additional apartments in an adjacent building. I depreciated the building for the ten years I owned it and enjoyed the tax break however when I sold it my basis was reduced by the amount depreciated and because it was now a 5 family in real estate parlance, it was now commercial property. Banks would then require a full 25% down payment and charge 1 to 2 % more for a mortgage. I finally found a buyer who subdivided the property the week after he bought it, sold the ordinal 3 family for what he paid for the 5 family, converted the two "new" units into a single family and owed nothing. My tax bill was equivalent to my "profit" leaving me with nothing except a ten year tax write off in exchange for a million hassles collecting rents, evicting deadbeats, midnight calls when there wasn't hot water.

I know an owner occupied, and actually habitable, home gets the best financing. 1 or 2% more, and 25% down is the deal for a commercial building?

And then getting to depreciate it even though you still own it, I believe that is unique to real estate. Maybe it also applies to corporate capital equipment purchases, where they can't just deduct it all the first year.

People who have owned a building I lived in essentially got nothing except huge huge hassles, and spending lots and lots of time. But no real profit. Certainly nothing to compensate them for what time they put in. They saw it as a passive investment, like a mutual fund. But it was nothing of the sort.

Realtors say prices double every 7 years. That is bullshit.

But these owners were not very good in how they handled tenants or how they did repairs.

I would never want to be in the rental business, too many hassles, to much negative impact on people.

I understand about your depreciation being used to alter your cost basis.

To me what you are describing sounds perfectly fair.

But how does Donald Trump get a $900Meg tax deduction when I don't think he actually spent any $900 Meg.

The closest example I know of is this, and I don't know if this would really work out and be legal.

Suppose I start three companies:

A. Technology based for profit.
B. Local service company for profit.
C. Religious non-profit.

I don't spend much money on any of it. And I own as many shares as the law will allow of A and B. Of C, I control it.

So A and B become valuable, where as I had put in almost nothing.

So at some point I donate B to C. What is the value of B if it is not public, how do you establish this?

But anyway, then I get a big tax deduction which I then use to sell shares in A, without having to pay any tax. So I have a big bag of mad money!

But is this strictly legal, and how complicated is it, and what are the limits?

Certainly I cannot have other share holders in B or they would have reason to object.

But how did Donald Trump do it, be able to have a $900 Meg deduction when I don't think he actually put in anything like that kind of money.

I read that you can buy jewelry wholesale and donate it and deduct the retail value. Jewelry has a big difference between the two prices.

But my suggestion, building a corporation from little or nothing, and then donating it, same idea. A big tax deduction without having to pay out money.

How did Trump do it?

SJG

Depreciation is not as complicated as it sounds basically it allows you to recover the cost of moneymaking equipment or rent-able buildings within a range of parameters
"Most types of tangible property (except, land), such as buildings, machinery, vehicles, furniture, and equipment are depreciable. Likewise, certain intangible property, such as patents, copyrights, and computer software is depreciable."
In order to claim that deduction the equipment must meet certain requirements
"The taxpayer must own the property. Taxpayers may also depreciate any capital improvements for property the taxpayer leases.
A taxpayer must use the property in business or in an income-producing activity. If a taxpayer uses a property for business and for personal purposes, the taxpayer can only deduct depreciation based only on the business use of that property.
The property must have a determinable useful life of more than one year."
There is more to it but these are the basics just check on the IRS website and you will find a simple primer that shows how to use the depreciation allowance to your benefit.

^^^ I should have added this is a tool the government uses to encourage entrepreneurship it can be misused, but it really is quite valuable, for most business people, enabling them to offer items or services for sale and pay for them over time and have the access to the markets that they wish to reach in the near term.

Say a company buys a piece of equipment and it costs $1k. Usually they will want to just deduct that from their earnings for that year.

So as I understand they only go into depreciation schedules when they are not allowed to do that. True?

So eventually it all gets depreciated / deducted.

But how does Trump get a $900Meg deduction when I don't think he ever paid for anything which cost anything like $900Meg?

SJG

In answer to your direct question
" Say a company buys a piece of equipment and it costs $1k. Usually they will want to just deduct that from their earnings for that year."
That piece of equipment will most likely not generate a profit of one million in that fiscal year, so your deductions are generally used to allow you to offset your taxes in the way in which they are paid (on profits) all revenue is not profit, the portion that you deduct should offset the capital expenditure allowing you to amortize your costs in a predictable manner allowing for that business to run, pay wages to employees, and generate profits for its shareholders.

But how does Trump get a $900Meg deduction when I don't think he ever paid for anything which cost anything like $900Meg?
The answer to this is a lot more complicated but it involves having access to skilled Accountants and Lawyers that most folks do not have available to them. Seems unfair and it is but that's life here in America, its not as unfair as it seems but It would take an hour or more to actually explain the concept, basically it starts with risk and reward.

^^^ Do you know how Trump did it? Can you direct me to any link where I might learn.

As I know, to be able to deduct $1 you had to have spent $1.

If I spent $1 and it turned into a million dollars, and then that was lost, all I could deduct was $1.

True?

So it has something to do with he peculiarities of the laws as they pertain to real estate. That is all I can figure.

SJG

With out his actual tax return I can't explain to a certainty, not sure where you would be able to find his methodology,
and the answer to your first question when you made the million, you needed to put the tax money away as it was due, if you lost all of that money you stole tax revenues which you were obligated to pay.

Yes, but normally a loss or gain is only recorded when you sell off.

If he really put $900Meg into something and then lost it, I wouldn't fault him.

Trump seems to have found the holy grail of tax avoidance, being able to deduct for money never lost because you never paid it out. This is how it looks.

SJG

STFU SJG! ^^^

It must have something to do with special ways that the law treats real estate, allowing you to claim your appreciation as a new cost basis, but while still deferring tax payment. A kind of win or lose either way system. Really crooked.

SJG

STFU ^^^^ Everyone hates you SJG!

Nothing to sell off, It's neither a loss or a gain, its profits from a continuing operation, Build an apartment building the rent roll is a business the building is depreciable the land never depreciates in theory, the building needs repairs upkeep management etc. the property is saleable as a completely separate entity from the business.

^^^^^ 25

Okay, that sounds fine. So if my building cost $3Meg, then I had to either pay $3Meg or borrow it and have it as an outstanding debt. And then if I am depreciating the building, then those come off of my cost basis when I sell, as in Gawker's example.

But how does Trump get a $900Meg deduction when I don't think he ever spent or borrowed $900Meg. I think he is just somehow getting to count the loss from the buildings peak appreciation. He is getting to deduct for paper loses, money he never spent and never was liable for.

It must have to do with special laws pertaining to real estate.

SJG

SJG doesn't understand that the government is actually encouraging this type of investment behavior. It's what Trump and others in his position have learned to do as a result of government regulation. If these loopholes weren't in place, many of the risks would not be taken by businessman. It's why the 1031 "like-kind" exchanges are available under the IRS revenue code, to help innovation and efficiency for investors to find better investments and a better ROR.

This "like kind" exchange along with recapture of depreciation simply allow delay of taxation, so a person can use government tax payer money to be reinvested into future projects and reinvestments into the business community.

However, why should I expect a simpleton like SJG to understand what it takes to build an organization when all he has done is "talk" about doing an organization. One of which he has never revealed what it is or how anyone can join. At least Trump and other like me have organizations people actually have seen and witnessed. Trump is at least relatable, where you his your face 2 face activities as a troll behind the computer, being nothing but a creepy jack ass!

And this is why working people have to rise up. Otherwise their cut of the benefits will continue to diminish, as Fox News and Jim Gaffagain continue to lionize the big deal makers. Jim go back in time to the days of Calvin Coolidge.

SJG

SJG is just a CNN/leftist liberal mouthpiece regurgitating anything they tell him to.


SJG is nothing but a creepy Jack ass!

Everything that makes sense just goes right over your head SJG. Did u even read my post? I dumbed it down enough for you to understand....

Gaffagain, Authority on Average Americans, people like Archie Bunker are funny on television, but not anywhere else.

Trump:
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/do…

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/10/us/pol…

"...he used a $916 million loss that he reported on his 1995 income tax returns to avoid paying personal federal income taxes for years."

SJG

Egyptian Typhonian Magick - II
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGrbn4RU…

Pissed Catholic Mother, video taping her is probably the only thing keeping this boy sane
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8Aq00yJ…

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/02/us/pol…

"The 1995 tax records, never before disclosed, reveal the extraordinary tax benefits that Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential nominee, derived from the financial wreckage he left behind in the early 1990s through mismanagement of three Atlantic City casinos, his ill-fated foray into the airline business and his ill-timed purchase of the Plaza Hotel in Manhattan."

I understand that investments can lose money, and that these losses can be subtracted from other gains. And then as far as subtracting a negative Capital Gains from regular income, I thought there was a cap, $1.5k? $3k?

But what I want to know is how was Trump able to gain a tax deduction from what are probably paper losses? They seem to be losses of the value of businesses which he had not spent that much to get into.

SJG

Set the Egyptian God of chaos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwCvB_y0…

Trump Tax Deduction Analysis:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20…

SJG

Everyone hates you SJG, so quit spamming up the board with your left wing sponsored posts!^^^

We all wish you'd just leave TUSCL for good, u lying hypocrite who cheated on his wife by having an affair during his marriage. Real piece of shit liar if u ask me!

The problem with President-Elect Trump's (leaked?) 1995 tax return is that we only have the analysis that the media has provided. I think like Twentyfive said, most of us (I know me included) either haven't analyzed the actual return nor do we understand tax law enough to do it, so we perhaps (naively?) rely on there media analysis, which could be biased.

With that said ...

The understanding the lay person apparently to take away from this is President-Elect Trump has written off losses we (?) don't believe are fair (according to who?). Why? Here is the 'hood analogy: imaging a baby daddy who does not support his wife and 3 children, nor does he live with them. Yet, he attempts to file a tax return ahead of his wife, claiming the 3 children as dependents -- none of which supports to be entitled to the deduction/credit -- so he attempts to fine the return, early, before the baby momma has a chance to do it. He does this knowing he'll get a big ass refund. He doesn't care that this will screw up baby mamma's return.

Based on 'hood logic: he's claimed a credit/deduction that wasn't against anything he paid out -- the momma did. So he stole (?) from the IRS and the baby mamma.

In the Trump example, we in the 'hood believe this to be a loss the business investors are due, not Trump, therefore we in the 'hood believe he's dishonest or cheated. Somewhere some investors (the 'hood believes) are unable to claim their rightful $900MM loss (aggregate).

--

Now here's the part that confuses me. Twentyfive is an upstanding guy who believe in honest dealings, yet he (preliminarily?) believes Trump took a legit deduction/credit for gods-on-Earth, er, I mean, cough*job*creators*cough. And twentyfive is usually on the up and up and didn't necessarily believe Trump was correct/ethical in all the bankruptcies / obligations-to-pay-people that Trump (allegedly?) skirted on.

So I am confused. And the laypeople are confused, too.

^^^ Maybe that explains it.

^^^Dominic77-Nothing to be confused about, Trump definitely gamed the system in ways that most ethical business people would never do, he probably broke no laws while doing it, but there is not much that any of us can do about it, so what's the point. Smarter to concentrate on controlling what you can and not obsessing about those things that you have no control over.
Hope for the best while being prepared for the worst.

Of course most people who work for their living, would never be able to deduct big losses and exempt themselves from future taxation. But my real concern about this is that it looks like Trump has been able to deduct paper loses. That I do not understand.

So reading:
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/10/0…

Trump combined tax benefits under Section 1231 of the Internal Revenue Code with the exception provisions in Section 108.

So sounds like Trump paid too much for some trophy properties and old airliners. This created a loss of $1billion.

Net Operation Losses, NOL's

Net operating losses should reflect economic damage suffered by the owner of the NOLs. But Trump found a way to gain from these losses by spreading the costs around to bankers and investors.

So interjecting here myself, so it sounds like these losses were real and inadvertent, though likely the result of negligent business operating. But the losses were real, not paper.

So these can reduce taxes for from 2 to 15 years. But for real estate gains, the tax reductions go out to 39 years, and Trump's was $916 Meg.

So though the losses were real, Trump was able to shift the burden onto investors, lenders, and suppliers. Trump owed over $3 billion, much of it secured by nothing but his signature.

"
Last May, Trump revealed that he took on debt with no intention of paying it all back, which strikes me as fraud. “I’ve borrowed knowing you can pay back with discounts,” he told CNBC in May, boasting “I’ve done well with debt.”
"

"
Back then Trump threatened endless litigation unless 70 banks he owed money gave him millions more in new loans at low interest rates and provided him with $5.4 million a year for personal spending, the equivalent of $10 million in today’s money.
"

"
Normally, any part of a loan that is forgiven becomes taxable income, as millions of people who could not repay home mortgages or student loan debt have learned in recent years.


That’s where Section 108 comes in. Three years after Trump bested his bankers, Congress amended that section to let real-estate professionals avoid income taxes on debts that were canceled.
"

So interjecting again, sounds like Trump dealt with his creditors by simple bullying, getting them to lend him even more money, even this $5.4 Meg per years for personal and family spending money.

"
So while Trump made money at every turn, the banks that lent him money, the workers and small businesses who delivered for Trump, and the investors in his casino company all got stiffed. And while they paid taxes on whatever income they did manage to collect, Trump enjoyed at least $916 million of tax-free income.
"

"
In the first debate with Hillary Clinton, Trump did not dispute her statement that he pays no income taxes. Instead he said it shows he is smart.

That may be, but it also suggests the rest of us are chumps for paying our taxes while Trump enjoys all the benefits of the United States government—little things like individual liberty, the FBI, and a military to protect us—while bearing none of the burden. If we all did as Trump does, we would, to quote a line Trump employs often, not have our country anymore.
"

So the losses were real, Trump just made other people absorb them, and seeming was engaging in fraud when he first borrowed the money.

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Donald-Tru…

SJG

Report: After Legislative Coup, North Carolina Can No Longer Be Considered a Democracy
https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/28/…

Tijuana Hotel Eduardo, on that alley, renovations underway. Look at the Spartan bedrooms, where the bed is built in, like it were an altar or something.

http://greatpussy.blogspot.com/

100 boobie squeeze challenge
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CHARLIE CLASSIC Vine Compilation
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Interesting, SJG. He's seems more gangster than businessman in that analysis.

That he is really a con artist and gangster, rather than legitimate business man, is the main theme of David Kay Johnston:

https://www.amazon.com/Making-Donald-Tru…

Happy New Years!
SJG

The Best Of Cream | Cream Greatest Hits Playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDee1d5b…