Hmmmm.... It makes sense!

So false.

Jim, agree, I've long since thought the 'democrat' and 'republican' camps were a distraction from the real party in power: the super wealthy. There is them and there is rest of us. It really doesn't matter who wins this or any election cycle. We have to carry on ourselves.

I agree with Dominic77, and I think this is a first, I also agree with JimG.

But I also say that Donald Trump is about the worst thing that could possibly happen, and so there really is no responsible choice except voting for Hillary Clinton.

After that, we can work to build more community based solutions and support other candidates to deal with exactly the sorts of things Jim is speaking about.

The Republican and Democratic Party names don't really mean anything. They just try to hold on to power. But they do respond when public views shift.

SJG

Whos That Lady? - Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Boz Scaggs - The Dukes of September - Live 2014
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02uqM2Dn…

the choice between hilly and donny is an illusion. hell, I'm convinced donny is in cahoots with hilly to ensure she wins. he's publicly supporter her in the past.

part of the problem is too many people think that "their" senator/representative is great and not part of the problem, but everyone else's senator/representative is the problem... ah the joys of gerymandering

It still does matter which bozo wins. They are not equal. Generally the Democratic Party is more sided with people outside of the central power axis, people who work for a living, people who are not white, people who are not protestant.

The Republican Party, except when it first started to oppose slavery, has always been aligned with White Protestant Big Business.

Today though it operates on a specifically racist code language:
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/1/14/do…

This is thanks to Barry Goldwater, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan.

But one of the most xenophobic, Real Americans versus Other, was Herbert Hoover vs Al Smith, 1928.

Smith got his political education from the Triangle Shirt Waste Factory Fire. Remember, doors had been locked, and so women workers were jumping to their deaths from high up.

He fought hard for labor. Elected NY Governor, then first Roman Catholic to win any major party's presidential nomination.

Hoover was someone who's holdings in Tsarist Russian timber and mining assets were estimated at $1 billion, in 1912. In 1912 that was really a lot of money. And this kind of thing is typical in colonial and neo-colonial situations, autocrats working with foreign business interests and selling off their country's natural resources.

And so Hoover spent most of the rest of his life supporting the Right, and especially Germany's Right, to try and find a way to get his holdings back.

SJG

^Yes and no. Trump's policies would pass congress no easier than Sanders' would, had he (1) won the nomination and (2) won the general election. Both candidates (Trump and Sanders) are pie-in-the-sky and can't muster support in a real-world Congress.

SJG, I do agree that through process-of-elimination that Mrs. Clinton is the only sane (IMO) choice left.

She's the centrist candidate. I freely admit she has a number of problems. I'm looking for a moderate orleft-leaning on social issues, esp. LGBT issues.

and... hope and change isn't pie-in-the-sky?

Hillary Clinton who has voted for every war; who got our ambassador killed; who caters to wall Street; who accepts donations from Foreign Governments and Foreigners; who committed 31,200 violations of the Freedom of Information Act; who lied and said she came under fire landing in Kosovo; who's reset with Russia has reulted in 400,000 dead in Syria and with Russia stationing troops yesterday 50 miles from Alaska and who will have to prove her penis is larger than any man's will start a war within 18 months of her victory. Hope those supporting have their children killed in this war. Trump is just as bad. Vote Gary Johnson. Anyone who thinks that Hillary is not in bed with Wall Street is simply fucking stupid enough to be a liberal. Personally I couldn't care less as I have no children and more than enough money to enjoy life.

I'll have to disagree with skibum. Voting libertarian is a vote for Hillary. I'm not for Trump, but I am against Hillary. To say that federal leadership has no impact on your daily life should be grounds for having your voting rights rescinded. Bush increased government spending while cutting revenue. I love tax cuts, but I hate debt. Obama has accumulated more sent in eight years than all his predecessors combined. The bill for that will come due. Obamacare exchange are failing all across the country, and delivery legislators will try to use that to federalize healthcare. All of Obama and the Democrats free entitlement programs will come from increasing taxes. Too much spending on entitlements, and we will be in the same position as Greece, Puerto Rico, and Ireland.
I understand what Jim read one that op-ed, but it is dangerously foolish.

I'm moving to Costa Rica. No matter who's in charge, We are screwed. Life will go on, to be sure, oh well.

I worked with a fellow who was fairly wealthy and building a retirement home for himself in CR. I don't know the details, but apparently he got entirely ripped off.

The libertarian fellow is probably a good option.

The problem with most of our politicians (Mrs. Clinton included) is they are all taking money from lobbyists. Maybe Trump is different and won't take lobbyist money. That is what people are saying. How true that will turn out to be we don't know. That is the current problem with pretty much every politician in DC (every congressman, senator, and Mrs. Clinton and others). The lobbyist money corrupts. I agree with skibum that Mrs. Clinton is the back pocket of some pretty disturbing people.

mjx01, is that supposed to be a pot shot at Mr. Obama? If so, honestly, I wish he could run again or perhaps Mr. Biden in his place. I would have voted for Mr. Obama again. The republican counter-tickets against Mr. Obama in 2008 and 2012 we unappealing to me, as a young Republican to be honest.

Trump can do a huge amount of harm with just his appointments and executive orders. He is going as far to the right as he possibly can.

Voting Libertarian is non-sense, just Republicans who want to smoke weed and get laid.

Hillary represents a centrist constituency. Sorry she is not a more personable candidate. But she is effective. 8 years ago she really gave Obama a run for the nomination.

SJG

Benny Goodman - Sing Sing Sing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_YG9XBX…

^^^ I agree with SJG, a vote for Hillary is a vote to total government control. She is the anti-Christ!

^^^^^^ I did not say that. Bitch yes, but anti-Christ no. The worst thing which could happen to this country is a Trump Presidency. The way to stop that is Hillary, as she is the only other electable candidate at this point.

Hillary started with Children's Defense Fund. She is good.

http://www.childrensdefense.org/

SJG

Lol! SJGuy is such a stupid fuck.

A vote for Hillary is like accepting of the type of people who think like SJGuy. He doesn't even know Jim was referring to SJGay. Total ignorance!

San Jose Guy is simply following liberal herd thinking

Liberal views usually require seeing a larger picture and recognizing a more involved systemic process.

So as many commentators have noted, this is why Right Wing talk radio has done so well. What they are putting out are always oversimplified and largely emotional explanations.

Hillary and Bill come out of the conservative wing of the party, the Democratic Leadership Conference. It was basically an opposition to the George McGovern Wing.

And as NY's Senator, she has always continued with this, always steering to the Center.

Barak Obama was an excellent President, and so too will be Hillary Clinton.

Trump on the other hand would be that absolute worst thing that could happen.

So please, do not waste your vote on Libertarian or other protest candidates. We must all vote for Clinton, to assure the defeat of Trump. After that we can find other ways to voice other types of political views.

SJG

skibum comes closest to my thinking in this thread so far. From my right-libertarian point of view, Clinton and Trump are both unacceptable candidates.

gammanu writes "Voting libertarian is a vote for Hillary." No, voting libertarian is a vote for Gary Johnson! If the two major parties spew forth utterly reprehensible candidates such as Hillary and the Donald, we should feel no obligation to vote for *either* of them.

SJG, with his customary political idiocy, says that "[Trump] is going as far to the right as he possibly can." Ludicrous! Trump is NOT a conservative -- he's a populist authoritarian nationalist! Anyone who thinks that Trump is actually a conservative has no understanding of political philosophy.

@MisterDouche: Do you understand "political philosophy"? If so, who is your favorite political philosopher?

Churchill, because he stood for unity of the western world. Not the same thing, but similar to the mother and child reunion.

As much as I would like to, and perhaps this speaks more to my failure to compete at life, but I just don't see how the current Trump platform or the current Republican/GOP platform helps me provide better for my wife and me. There are a lot of regular, hard working people who are quite frankly getting 'killed' out here. I figure my stance will change once I feel more competitive. But quite frankly at 38 years old I'm starting to lose patience! But I do want to say I am grateful for what I have. But I'm intelligent and I feel like I should be doing better than my $63k salary shows.

Gary Johnson wants to gut the military, erase our nation's borders, and allow unlimited unchecked immigration. Those are completely unacceptable viewpoints. Any who has researched the libertarian party platform and still vote for them as a substitute for a true republican candidate is an idiot.

^^^ True, but I think more democrats will be voting libertarian than republicans, at least in this election.

MrDeuce says of Trump, " he's a populist authoritarian nationalist!"

I can agree with that.

As far as Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party, it pretty much is always intended to be a spoiler party. Republicans who want to smoke weed and get laid, but a political movement which promotes extreme coercive conformity by economic means, and by the idea of who is legitimate and who is not.

Of Hillary Clinton, she is about as centrist and inoffensive a candidate as you will find. Though not without taint, she will be someone who does her very best to stay the course and make only minor and necessary improvements. If you vote for anyone else you are either wasting your vote or risking large scale disaster. Barak Obama was a very good President, and she will be too.

SJG

The Filthy Souls - Destroy You (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZDtZawK…