ROB?

avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
I think I know the answer to this question, but I'm curious to get some feedback. Thanks for your input.

So, I'm testing out the sugar scene. Signed up for SA and have started going on some initial dates. I'm looking for an ongoing thing, not a one time hookup. All of my dates so far have been with attractive young women. One I wasn't really interested in, but the others are options. I would consider these women to all be 8.5's and above. Picture the best strippers in the club, except without the drug addiction, and a little more like the girl next door. Most are in college or college educated and not many have tattoos. Don't get me wrong, I have some favorite strippers who have plenty of tattoos and do their fair share of drugs. The SA women I've met with just seem a little cleaner cut.

Anyway, on to the situation. So, I meet this one girl online. Early twenties, pretty, hot little body. We exchange messages, numbers, start texting, and then meet for a meal. We spend about an hour getting to know one another and we are really hitting it off. We both feel comfortable around each other, so we discuss the details of an arrangement and come to an agreement. We are both happy about the arrangement and look forward to starting soon.

Then, she goes to the bathroom, returns, and the hustle began. She asked me for $$ for today's date. She said her previous SD's had given her $ up front, to show they were serious. I told her I wasn't aware of this in advance and didn't feel comfortable with it. She said she really needed it to go get her car from the repair shop, before it closed that night. After I said no, she said it would be an advance toward our first date together. I still said no, so then she asked for less money. I still said I didn't feel comfortable with that, because I thought I might give her the money and never see her again. She started pressuring me and guilt tripping me, questioning whether I could really afford to be a SD, if I was sweating over a small amount of money like that. I told her we could meet soon and start the arrangement and she would get her money then. She insisted she needed it then, to get her car. I refused and eventually, I said sorry, and walked away.

She contacted me a couple of days later, but still we had the same issue, so things went nowhere. Before the hustle at the end of the date, we got along so well and I was really attracted to her, that I was hoping she would be my new SB going forward. I'm disappointed things didn't work out, but there are other options I'm pursuing too.

Since this would have been an ongoing thing, she stood to make a lot of money over the long run, so if she was genuine about wanting an arrangement, she left a lot of money on the table by insisting on the up front payment. My gut tells me that she is a hustler though, who does this regularly. She has no intention of entering into a relationship with anybody, and just gets guys to fall in lust with her, and then suckers them out of upfront money and disappears. I had heard about SB hustlers conning guys by getting them to send them money before their first date, but never after a first date like this.

So, was she a ROB? Also, for any of you out there that have used SA or other sugar dating sites, any advice? Thanks.

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avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
8 years ago
I'd trust your gut.

I do imagine the arrangement thing is a bit of a game, where the guy often has to make at least some sort of a "deposit" he may never see a return on.

It does sound like she laid on the hustle hard and didn't promise anything in return.
avatar for Corvus
Corvus
8 years ago
I think your gut feeling is right on. Maybe when she called back you should have told her to meet you for a romp and basically call her bluff.

Not sure about SA but there are some dating sites which payment up front is their system.
avatar for Lone_Wolf
Lone_Wolf
8 years ago
I like the way you handled it. Honey probably would have been a non stop money hustle. A good counter offer would have been hotel time right after the meal.
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Thanks guys. Good suggestion LW. I'll keep that in mind, if I run into a similar situation again.
avatar for s88
s88
8 years ago
Pull out the $, show it to her, dont give it to her, put it back in your wallet.
avatar for Dominic77
Dominic77
8 years ago
Paying for the first date seems pretty normal to me. I mean it takes time and effect for a woman to get dressed up. To me it shows respect. To each his own though.
avatar for sinclair
sinclair
8 years ago
TravelingGolfer, I will refer you to an article I wrote in June. https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=4…

When she went to the bathroom, she was probably talking to a friend on the phone who has had success scamming guys. She was getting instructions. She could have asked you for $$ for the meet n greet before the date or even when you guys came to an arrangement. That is my hunch. I had a similar encounter.

There are alot of sugar babies out there who rack up dough by getting a "down payment" at the first date, then disappear and block your number. If they can get one sucker to gift them $200 for a date each day of the week, they've made $1400 in a week without having sex. I've heard stories of women who string sugar daddies along just to go out to expensive restaurants for free. There are even guys so desperate to be around a hot young woman that they pay for platonic dates. Likely, this girl had desperate guys promising her money just to meet on a date, and she thought you would stoop to that level.

My advice is to pay for her food and drink and nothing else. If she truly needed to get her car, she could have made a down payment to you, like some groping in your car or a blowjob.
avatar for busta_nut
busta_nut
8 years ago
you did the right thing.. from my experience that is usually discussed before the date happen if that is her criteria.
Much less credible with the whole car in shop bs.. How did she get to the date to start with? If it was just an innocent show of good faith that was mentioned in passing. especially after the deal was struck.. maybe..
but that was definitely a ROB
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Thanks Sinclair. I'll check out the article. I think you are spot on. She was in the bathroom a while. Too long probably. I got the feeling she was texting someone for a while when she was in the bathroom. I agree, if she asked me for $ before the date, it would have been different than surprising me w/ that at the end of the date. Of course, she probably realizes most guys would refuse the date altogether if she asked for $ up front, so she doesn't do that. She needs to get face to face to make the hustle work.
avatar for JohnBuford
JohnBuford
8 years ago
ROB,no doubt in my mind. I think you handled it well.You paid for dinner,came to an agreement on the business side of things and made plans to meet again.If she took an Uber/taxi to get the restaurant I would have paid for her ride home,but that's it.
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
She picked a restaurant close to her apartment and I traveled to her. She walked to the restaurant and walked home. I suppose she could have been dropped off a few blocks away by a friend or boyfriend, but it seems like she did walk there.
avatar for rh48hr
rh48hr
8 years ago
Definite ROB
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
You def did the right-thing; and it's a business dinner to talk and deal business; not for her to get paid just to show-up; if she was expecting payment for the dinner she should have said-so prior when arrangements were being made - I think many guys will understand if she says her time is $$$ and is reasonable about the dinner fee - a guy opposed to the dinner fee will not pay whether she mentions it upfront or after.

Upfront payment in the P4P game is a surefire recipe for getting ripped-off and it's too easy to do; pretty-much like taking candy from a baby; these are women often selling their bodies thus not exactly high on the trust totem-pole.

To me her attitude has red-flags all-over and I would not even let her reconsider - you'll know when you find the right-one and no need to roll the dice with a pushy one - if she was so pushy on the first date; that says something right thur - not worth it to those that know the game; perhaps for the desperate fools.
avatar for flagooner
flagooner
8 years ago

Whether she was a ROB or not (and I would give great odds that she was) you did the right thing.

Worst case scenario of you dumping her is that you have to find a different SB. A lot of fish in that sea and it sounds like you have a few on the line already.

Worst case scenario if you persisted with her, quite a bit of $$$ gone without benefits.
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
You guys are dropping knowledge. Appreciate it. Well said Papi. Flagooner, you too. Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I agree that I need to steer clear of her and keep fishing, even if she contacts me again. Like a lot of you said, even if she isn't a rob, it will be a non-stop hustle with her and lots of headaches. Not how I want to spend my time and money.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
Here is a different article from TUSCLer "steve229" whom used to be very active on here on TUSCL - he describes his SB experience:

https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=2…
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Thanks Papi! That was a very helpful article. Appreciate the link.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
!
avatar for Player11
Player11
8 years ago
I have done about a dozen of them off SA for 60-200 pop - my goal get them less than strippers. most sessions with one was about 35. the best fuk a 35 yo offc mgr at 140 pop

I do not pay for services not rendered

some are ROB and if want money for get to know dinner say no - only pay money for pussy
one bitch wanted allowance at get to know diner of 3000 a mo. bragged guys paid her 500 for lunch. lectured me we not on same chapter - told her "go find him" paid bill and left. another I laughed and said "why would I pay some bitch 3000 b4 I have any idea what kinda fuk she is. that is about 20 sessions based on what I pay, I may dump her after 1st session if she lousy."

I do not drink the SB Koolaid. Most understand that it is p4p but the ROB ones try hit you with the allowance shit

3000 a mo = 36000 a yr. if that SD budget 5% of income he would have to make 720,000. Prolly less than 1% of men make that. On SA SB = 10x SD. tell ROB "go find him." many bitches on SA not worth but 60 pop vs strippers bc less attractive.

if girl worried about money first time just lay money on table

one I did at her trailer (39, div good body) wanted 140 up front b4 sex "no pay no play she said" and not a prob for me (she had been ripped). was good pussy and not have use rubber. she would wear this sexy swimsuit I bought her and be at door waiting for me in it when got there. I would shoot off in her like crazy, she loved it
avatar for Tiburon
Tiburon
8 years ago
YOu did the right thing bro. A hoe that doesn't want to play the game correctly is a hustler by her own rules. She was NOTgoing to come back, never pay upfront, always pay AFTER the fact. If she can't handle that, less money for her AND less time to chump someone else. AND the fact that she came crawling back again with the same hustle tells me she wasn't going to put out and she really needed the money for somethign and you weren't going to see equivalent exchange.

Best way to do it is to tell her you'll pay if she puts out first. Make sure the money goes to the right people. Otherwise forget it.
avatar for stripfighter
stripfighter
8 years ago
Whether she's a ROB or not, too much trouble, I jump ship. Pay to relieve stress not to endure it.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
"... Pay to relieve stress not to endure it ...."

Great line - simple and so true - too many PLs seem to go thru all sorts of drama and grief w.r.t. P4P hook-ups - I mean we are paying them and they still give us drama and grief and many of us put-up w/ that shit.
avatar for RandomMember
RandomMember
8 years ago
I skimmed the OP, but just wanted to add that you should *never* pay for a meet@greet. You have to sift through a mountain of profiles, but there are some really wonderful college girls out there. Good luck.
avatar for Aaron_hip
Aaron_hip
8 years ago
How much was the girl asking for initially?
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
$250
avatar for san_jose_guy
san_jose_guy
8 years ago
SA?

I found:
http://www.sugarmummysa.com/

Someone had also shown me, What's Your Price
https://www.whatsyourprice.com/

for myself, this kind of stuff does not look that appealing. I like women in extreme heels and makeup, sluts. So strip clubs give me that.

SJG
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Bumping this thread with an update, in case it interests or helps anyone. I've been on SA for a few weeks now and I'm really pleased with the progress. I've been on several dates already and I've even had to cancel some dates with some hot women, because it's getting too confusing juggling them. I even had one hot stripper message me first and she wanted to meet me for lunch, but I chose not to, because she wasn't really my type, even though she was at least an 8.5.

Fortunately, the hustler that I mentioned above is the only scanner I've run into so far. Finding some pretty young co-eds that are looking for ongoing situations. There are some flat out escorts too, but you can usually tell which is which, based on what you are looking for. Some women, especially some of the young ones, are looking for $ for strictly platonic relationships, but it's easy to avoid them too.

Some women are requesting huge allowances, but most aren't. For the amount I was spending at SC's recently, this will wind up being a lot less expensive. Plus, it feels like more 'normal' dating, if you want an ongoing thing, and that appeals to you.

For these first dates, I'm just buying dinner and drinks. I'm not giving them any money for a first meeting. A few women will ask for that, but most won't. I just avoid the ones that want first date money.

The women, so far, have all looked like their pictures. I've taken conversations offline and have been texting several women. Some are sending me sexy photos, flirting, etc. It's fun.

It took a little time getting the profile set up, searching for women, messaging them, etc. However, once you get the ball rolling, you'll probably have more woman to choose from than you know what to do with.

This has been a more positive and enjoyable experience than dealing with flaky strippers not responding to texts, leading you on with false OTC hopes to keep you coming to the club, and racing against the clock with ITC extras in VIP.

To each their own and I know there are pluses and minuses to everything, but this is turning into a pleasant surprise that I almost didn't even try. Glad I did.

Right now I'm going on 2nd dates with a few women and I should have my new SB picked out soon. If variety is your thing, it would probably be was to juggle multiple women and have a different girl every week. I like routines, so I'm just looking for one good woman for now, until things get stale or the shelf life of the relationship runs out. Anyway, just thought I'd share, for whatever it's worth.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
Interesting; we can all learn from each other's experiences so def keep us up to date.

With the way many cities are becoming anti-SCs; the SB route may be the way of the future (one more disruptive internet business model) - and perhaps one of the reasons why there may not be as many hotties in the SCs these days at in the 1990s (hot babes choosing SBing over stripping).
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
Have you stuck to Seeking Arrangements or have you had success on other sites?
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
True Papi. I will. I've just stuck with SA for now and see no need to try any of the other sites, because the quantity and quality of women is tremendous. I think I read there are 10 women for every guy on the site and a lot of the guys are fake SD's, so if you are genuine and willing to spend $, you should get lots of attention. The other sites may be good too, but I don't know since I haven't tried them. From what I read, I think SA is the most well known site, so it probably attracts more women, but that's just a guess. Also, I'm very picky. I've probably had over 50 women message me or favorite me over the last two or three weeks, but I've only responded to a few of them. If I wasn't so picky, I could probably develop a harem. Haha.

I'll keep you posted as time goes on.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
"... I think I read there are 10 women for every guy on the site ... I've probably had over 50 women message me ..."

Seems there are a lot of women that like to beat up on men for being horn-dogs always looking for sex; but damn there seems to be lots of bitches looking to get paid - double-standard anyone?
avatar for Dominic77
Dominic77
8 years ago
I think it's generational. The younger women today are more on-board with being a sex worker (including Sugar Babying).

I also agree with you about keeping SB/Escorting as a backup in case clubbing fall through. I know when I thought about going back to clubs last September I had contacted some escorts and already started the screen process (once the wife approved). But in my case the Strip Club thing panned out so I'm in than camp for now.

Always good to have a Plan B. :)
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
8 years ago
TG: If you don't mind saying, how much are offering per month? I've toyed with the idea of trying an arrangement before...
avatar for Dominic77
Dominic77
8 years ago
My response was to Papi_Chulo.
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
^ yeah w.r.t. the generational thing - but I also think technology (internet + smartphones) has probably made it possible/easier for something that was probably always there for it to become more main stream and easier to pull off.
avatar for Dominic77
Dominic77
8 years ago
Very true Papi_Chulo. With Instagram and Twitter to visually promos the SB and escort model .. I doubt it would have taken off like it did. Let alone things like SA. I believe you are correct. I omitted that point when I shouldn't have. Thanks
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Subra: I have my profile set to 'negotiable'. My finalists right now are a 19 yr old student and beauty pageant winner who wants 200 per date, a 20 year old college student who wants 300 but is considering my suggestion for 250, and another mid 20's woman who wants 300. All are above an 8 and realize this will be more than platonic. There are some hot women in their 30's who I have as back up options, but hoping one of the first three work out. If the women feel comfortable around you, I think it helps get a reasonably priced arrangement with them.
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
8 years ago
Oh! I didn't realize "per date" is an option ... how is that different from an escort? Is it because the date can last multiple hours, and you're only paying one set fee for the entire date?

I was thinking everyone was mostly offering "per month" stipend type of thing
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
I would assume most SBs would like/prefer a monthly stipend but most probably realize that SDs willing *and* able to shale out monthly stipends are probably far & few b/w
avatar for Papi_Chulo
Papi_Chulo
8 years ago
There's probably a much greater demand of SBs wanting stipends than supply of SDs willing and able to do so - supply vs demand thus probably leading to less lofty SB expectations
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Subra, a lot of these women have suggested per date to me, even though I've been open to monthly. The students differ than escorts in that most are busy and probably only have time to see one or two guys at a time instead of dozens. Also, I've become friends with these women and talk to them every day, even if we only see each other once a week.
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
8 years ago
Papi: I'm on another forum that has an SD/SB subforum, and the guys there seem to indicate that monthly is the common arrangement...
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Also Subra, like you said, the SB's have been open to 2 or 3 hour dates for those rates. No way an escort would go for that.
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
8 years ago
Thanks, I appreciate the info .... seems like a really fun way to go, potentially
avatar for Dominic77
Dominic77
8 years ago
Many of the SBs are getting advice from other sex workers (SBs and escorts) to treat the SD like an escort client, which makes sense for a number of reasons and is the value option for both side: SD-->$$ and SB-->time.
avatar for Subraman
Subraman
8 years ago
I would have thought that for a "regular girl", for her to keep up her illusion that she's not an escort, per-date pricing structure would be a non-starter... it just makes it too damn obvious that this is money-for-sex and she basically is exactly an escort (albeit a less professional one). Whereas monthly stipend lets the girls pretend "he pays me for my time, and whatever I decide to give him". Live and learn.

The other thing that's surprising about per-date fees is that it sounds like she's still willing to be a regular SB in between dates -- that is, the faux friendship with texting and all that. Again, seems at-odds when the pricing structure makes it so clear it's money-for-sex.

Anyway, I view this all as good news, I'm just surprised. All the other talk I've seen on the other forum has been about monthly stipend
avatar for TravelingGolfer
TravelingGolfer
8 years ago
Subra, I agree with you completely. I've only met with a handful of girls so far, but every single one of them has suggested the per meet pricing. I went into this thinking I'd be forced to pay monthly allowances, and I was open to that, but fortunately it looks like I won't have to.

I guess every SB is different, but so far the ones I've met have been very friendly. I've had phone calls, daily texting and messaging, etc. I haven't even paid some of these girls a dime yet. Some have asked me advice on random life things and I've given it to them, which they've seemed to value and appreciate. I think some of the younger, college aged ones, may not have close relationships with their parents, so they don't have a strong adult influence in their life to help them with certain things.

Also, almost every one of the younger girls has insisted "I am not an escort". They've said they won't sleep with guys on the first date, only want one SD, etc. I think for the younger ones that are dipping their toe in the SB waters, it helps them feel more comfortable with things, if there's a friendship there, they are only seeing one client, etc. I think it helps them justify that "I'm not a slut and I'm not an escort, because I know him and he's my friend too." For someone who's looking for more than just an escort, it's a win-win in my book.

We'll see. This process is still early on for me, but I'm optimistic.
avatar for RandomMember
RandomMember
8 years ago
I've written about this before.

My summer SB was a gorgeous, Asian, econ major from Duke, with perfect slender body and deep dark tan. Part-time fashion model, 5's on her AP exams, arrived at my place 10 min early, polite, classy, zero drama. Worst part is that is that she's gone back out-of-state for her senior year.

Plenty of flakes on SA, too. Some are former backpage girls, some are strippers, some are nuts. Sifting through the profiles takes some work, but I think it's actually easier and less expensive then doing the same thing in a strip club. In general, it's uber-style sex work that's reached the mainstream. I would think it would gradually erode the demand for strip clubs.
avatar for Dominic77
Dominic77
8 years ago
RandomMember --> " I would think it would gradually erode the demand for strip clubs." --> end quote

^I could not have said this better myself.
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