How much authority do bouncers have to eject and/or ban custies from the SC?
Lone_Wolf
Arizona
Do sc bouncers have the authority to kick out or ban customers from the SC at will? I know there is a lot of grey area here.
For example, about a year ago I had a dancer on my lap and we were flirting around about some on-going fun drama that happened weeks before. The waitress walks up in the middle of our conversation and says she didn't like the way I was talking to the dancer and was going to have the bouncer (her boyfriend) kick me out. The dancer protested and I tried to provide context but the waitress was having none of it. Eventually, I told the waitress to go ahead and try to have me kicked out. The waitress walked over to the bouncer at the door who looked confused while the waitress dramatically tried to have me kicked out. The bouncer looked my way but never came over. Very strange situation that surprised the shit of me.
My question isn't about my example, I'm just curious how much leeway a bouncer has to kick people out. Obviously an overly drunk or hostile customer is an immediate ejection and possible ban, but what if it is customer a dancer simply does not want to see in the club anymore for whatever reason? Given these bouncers are often fucking the honeys I can see where this could get complicated. Also, would sc management want bouncers potentially pissing off whales just because their favorite honey didn't like them?
For example, about a year ago I had a dancer on my lap and we were flirting around about some on-going fun drama that happened weeks before. The waitress walks up in the middle of our conversation and says she didn't like the way I was talking to the dancer and was going to have the bouncer (her boyfriend) kick me out. The dancer protested and I tried to provide context but the waitress was having none of it. Eventually, I told the waitress to go ahead and try to have me kicked out. The waitress walked over to the bouncer at the door who looked confused while the waitress dramatically tried to have me kicked out. The bouncer looked my way but never came over. Very strange situation that surprised the shit of me.
My question isn't about my example, I'm just curious how much leeway a bouncer has to kick people out. Obviously an overly drunk or hostile customer is an immediate ejection and possible ban, but what if it is customer a dancer simply does not want to see in the club anymore for whatever reason? Given these bouncers are often fucking the honeys I can see where this could get complicated. Also, would sc management want bouncers potentially pissing off whales just because their favorite honey didn't like them?
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http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/ar…
Some of these details will vary somewhat from state to state but the link provides a pretty good generic explanation of the law and how it plays out in practice.
I have not seen a case, since the advent of 2-way touching, where a customer has been kicked for *anything* with a dancer. SCs look to customers like gold. IME.
**especially in cases where, say, the dancer doesn't protest aggressively enough to be fingered, etc., during a dance.
Here's one data point. I got in trouble with a dancer last year during a dance. All that happened was the bouncer told me to stop. ... when he *apologized* for stopping me.
But try not to get any naked dancers in the background if you can avoid it so nobody can challenge your motives. Yes this may be the only time I will ever advise anyone to work hard to avoid getting nude images of strippers.
That's why I club with rickthelion. If a bouncer gives him lip it's wildebeest time. That's the ticket! Squawk!
Often this occurred after I texted one of my favorites and told that I wouldn't be able to see her that day because I got kicked out and was going to another club. One time not even fifteen minutes later I got a text back from saying to come back and see her, she talked to the manager and got it straightened out. Of course I didn't see the text until far later that night because I was getting a dance from another favorite in a different club, not that I would likely have gone back anyway. My next visit the manager offered me half price champagne room dances for the trouble, and I took him up on the offer.
It also works the opposite way. I have also followed many of my favorites to a new club when they got fired or quit for whatever bullshit reason the club came up with.
This is a problem in strip clubs too, as sometimes these guys are acting just to impress the girls.
As far as how long it lasts, it is up to the management. No real legal limits to it.
SJG
origins of speculation, stock market Ponzi schemes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXNziew6…
-->"A business operator can kick anyone out "
ilbbaicni and sjg, what does "kick out" mean in this context? Are you saying that means, even for someone who is not posing a threat, putting their hands on them and removing them bodily? That's the way it seems to work, but JS seems to be saying that might not technically be legal
There need be no violation of any rules. If the person does not leave, police can be summoned to remove them, and they could be charged with trespassing.
Business operator does not have to give a reason.
So if the bouncer is an agent of the business operator, they have this same authority. Often the bouncer is the shift manager anyway.
Only legal basis on which to fight it is to say that it is discrimination based on race or religion, or such. But this is very hard to prove, and the burden of proof is on the litigant.
Now especially in a strip club, it is usually understood that the management will back up dancers. So if a dancer wants someone out, usually the management will comply.
Problem is that these bounders are often meat heads to start with, and they only get worse when pretty girls are pulling their strings.
This subject gets discussed with San Jose PD all the time.
SJG
financial bubbles always break, and when they do, even innocent people get hurt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXNziew6…
But the issue here is the right to exclude people. Any business operator has the authority to tell someone they have to leave, and they don't have to justify it, and then if they don't police will respond and they could site the party for trespassing.
Strip club bouncers can be just stupid bullies. It can be a real problem. Sometimes these guys are compounding and escalating problems that never needed to exist.
SJG
Financial Meltdown
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQzEWeGJ…
Yes the club can refuse admission as long as they don't do it for an unlawful reason like race. But once you pay the cover and they let you in, it's not so simple. The law will vary from state to state but I think there's a good argument that a person who has paid to get in, and has been allowed in, can't be kicked out for some arbitrary reason.
Again, the practical solution in most cases is just leave. It's not worth the hassle. But that's not because the club has absolute discretion to kick anybody out at any time for any reason.
It's like the old signs say, We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone.
Also in the Pink Poodle they have their own sign which says they reserve the right to clear the house after each performance. I think that means just one girl's two song set. This sign may not really be legal, and they don't do it.
San Jose can be quite wild and wooly, so this sort of thing comes up on non-strip club retail places all the time, and often police have to give the instructive that the business operator does have that right.
I do agree though that they SHOULD not do it for arbitrary reason. But as they don't have to give a reason or justify themselves in any way, it happens.
You will find that in some Asian businesses they have strange ideas, which come down to compulsory social conformity. So often ill will builds up in a shopping center, and so the lease does not get renewed.
There are also some court precedents in San Jose which make it harder for shopping center tenants and owners to remove unwanted solicitors or picketers. This can be both good and bad. I've gotten involved in some disputes.
Again, unlike the suburbs, in San Jose things can get quite contentious and the police always end up being the arbiters.
For myself, I've been involved in lots of sidewalk campaigns against business operators. Usually in the end the business is gone, or sold to a new owner, with the original owner's equity trashed. But usually police end up out there.
Things are also contentious in San Jose because though police do try to keep the peace, they still decline to respond to lots of calls. Not like this at all in the suburbs. San Jose has been in a financial meltdown and a war with the police and fire unions. The new Mayor Sam Liccardo had definitely made things worse. His first act as Mayor was to fire the City Manager and have security remove him from the building. This Manager was making good progress in restoring trust. Sam Liccardo is a piece of shit, and the people behind him are scum.
Notice also that the recent AMP closures on Bascom, where the DA's Office is being quoted in the newspapers, that is actually unincorporated
Now of course I support AMPs and don't want them closed. But the authorities do have the right to enforce the law. My point here is that in San Jose, police are really stretched beyond their limits now. This is why the real nice Viet AMPs are making such a comeback. Best of course is when they have girls coming from San Francisco and they dress and behave more slutty.
SJG