How much authority do bouncers have to eject and/or ban custies from the SC?

This is a multifaceted legal issue. I was going to write an explanation but first I googled it to see if a lawyer out there has already summarized the law. I thought this was a pretty good explanation so no need for me to go through it.

legalmatch.com

Some of these details will vary somewhat from state to state but the link provides a pretty good generic explanation of the law and how it plays out in practice.

If something improper is happening, it is far more likely the dancer will be fired** than it ever is for a customer to be kicked out (let alone banned). Only one time since the mid-90s have I seen a bouncer kick out a customer, and that customer was an overly drunk customer who picked a fight with the bouncer (not smart).

I have not seen a case, since the advent of 2-way touching, where a customer has been kicked for anything with a dancer. SCs look to customers like gold. IME.

**especially in cases where, say, the dancer doesn't protest aggressively enough to be fingered, etc., during a dance.

Here's one data point. I got in trouble with a dancer last year during a dance. All that happened was the bouncer told me to stop. ... when he apologized for stopping me.

And here's one practical suggestion if you get into a confrontation with a bouncer and are convinced that you are in the right. It will often be best to just leave and avoid a confrontation. But if you are determined to stay, pull out your phone and video it all. Stay calm and within your rights as described in the link provided. The club won't want to call the cops or be on video abusing a customer so they may back down. If they don't then you have evidence to give me to support your lawsuit.

But try not to get any naked dancers in the background if you can avoid it so nobody can challenge your motives. Yes this may be the only time I will ever advise anyone to work hard to avoid getting nude images of strippers.

Thanks for reprinting that JS69. I found no surprises in it but it was of interest.

Thanks for the article JS. Very informative. I've often wondered how bouncers in a sc, civie clubs, concerts etc..seemed seemingly above the law and had a green light to fuck people up as desired. Although, I've seen much less of that type of shit in the last 10 to 15 years. I think bouncer type jobs naturally attract dudes that desire physical confrontation. I've seen several instances where I thought the dude being ejected had a good case for filing assault charges against doormen.

depends....money and physical attribute play a big role.

Yes bouncers will kick out customers but as far as banning goes it is usually only a temporary ban.

My guess is for all but the most obvious cases (puking, punching, etc) it would typically come or go through the manager.

Bouncers abuse their authority with me. They say I smell and don't like it when I vomit. Squawk!

That's why I club with rickthelion. If a bouncer gives him lip it's wildebeest time. That's the ticket! Squawk!

To JS thanks for that link it was informative but there is another part that is not addressed. Strip clubs are private property as such you enter by invitation, which can be reminded at any time. If you are asked to leave and refuse you can be arrested and charged with trespassing if you resist attempts to get you to leave peacefully you might not be able to claim self defense, if you give cause to be forcibly removed.

^^^ sorry spell check changed rescinded to reminded

It depends on the stupidity of the management. I got kicked several times, and banned maybe three times usually it only last a short time. It helps to be a regular at the club, especially if there is a lot of competition in the area. Several times a scam running bouncer tried to get me ejected or banned and the manager overrode him the next time I visited. I have gotten free passes or a free lap dance or other offer for the trouble several times because of this.

Often this occurred after I texted one of my favorites and told that I wouldn't be able to see her that day because I got kicked out and was going to another club. One time not even fifteen minutes later I got a text back from saying to come back and see her, she talked to the manager and got it straightened out. Of course I didn't see the text until far later that night because I was getting a dance from another favorite in a different club, not that I would likely have gone back anyway. My next visit the manager offered me half price champagne room dances for the trouble, and I took him up on the offer.

It also works the opposite way. I have also followed many of my favorites to a new club when they got fired or quit for whatever bullshit reason the club came up with.

It's private property. Part of the bouncer's job is to exercise the owner's authority to kick people out. If your not white, and can convince a court how weren't doing anything improper, you could maybe win a suit against the club for kicking you out. Anyway, if a club is not being run seriously as business, you'd have to be really hard up to think it's worth it to be in there.

A business operator can kick anyone out for any reason they want. So with a bouncer, so long as it is cleared with the on duty manager, they can kick anyone out for any reason.

This is a problem in strip clubs too, as sometimes these guys are acting just to impress the girls.

As far as how long it lasts, it is up to the management. No real legal limits to it.

SJG

origins of speculation, stock market Ponzi schemes youtube.com

-->" bouncer's job is to exercise the owner's authority to kick people out."

-->"A business operator can kick anyone out "

ilbbaicni and sjg, what does "kick out" mean in this context? Are you saying that means, even for someone who is not posing a threat, putting their hands on them and removing them bodily? That's the way it seems to work, but JS seems to be saying that might not technically be legal

Business operators can have anyone removed from their business for any reason. It is like the old signs say, Right to Refuse Service.

There need be no violation of any rules. If the person does not leave, police can be summoned to remove them, and they could be charged with trespassing.

Business operator does not have to give a reason.

So if the bouncer is an agent of the business operator, they have this same authority. Often the bouncer is the shift manager anyway.

Only legal basis on which to fight it is to say that it is discrimination based on race or religion, or such. But this is very hard to prove, and the burden of proof is on the litigant.

Now especially in a strip club, it is usually understood that the management will back up dancers. So if a dancer wants someone out, usually the management will comply.

Problem is that these bounders are often meat heads to start with, and they only get worse when pretty girls are pulling their strings.

This subject gets discussed with San Jose PD all the time.

SJG

financial bubbles always break, and when they do, even innocent people get hurt. youtube.com

JS69's article deals with physically handling people and injuring them. No, bouncers do not have the authority to do this, except when it is defensive.

But the issue here is the right to exclude people. Any business operator has the authority to tell someone they have to leave, and they don't have to justify it, and then if they don't police will respond and they could site the party for trespassing.

Strip club bouncers can be just stupid bullies. It can be a real problem. Sometimes these guys are compounding and escalating problems that never needed to exist.

SJG

Financial Meltdown youtube.com

Saw an ejection of a doesnt-speak-english semi-wealthy tourist from my regular SC. First time ever I saw an ejection happen (6 months weekly visits). At this SC, there is alot of stripper customer interaction at the front rail (you can smell the pussy its so close to your face), but the tourist customer tried to finger the dancer on stage which isnt allowed (other touching of the dancer is okay on stage).

I don't have time to address in detail now but the issue is more complicated than has been suggested.

Yes the club can refuse admission as long as they don't do it for an unlawful reason like race. But once you pay the cover and they let you in, it's not so simple. The law will vary from state to state but I think there's a good argument that a person who has paid to get in, and has been allowed in, can't be kicked out for some arbitrary reason.

Again, the practical solution in most cases is just leave. It's not worth the hassle. But that's not because the club has absolute discretion to kick anybody out at any time for any reason.

If they refund their cover charge money, then they can remove them for arbitrary reason. Showing that it was really over race or religion would have to be done in court by the patron.

It's like the old signs say, We Reserve the Right to Refuse Service to Anyone.

Also in the Pink Poodle they have their own sign which says they reserve the right to clear the house after each performance. I think that means just one girl's two song set. This sign may not really be legal, and they don't do it.

San Jose can be quite wild and wooly, so this sort of thing comes up on non-strip club retail places all the time, and often police have to give the instructive that the business operator does have that right.

I do agree though that they SHOULD not do it for arbitrary reason. But as they don't have to give a reason or justify themselves in any way, it happens.

You will find that in some Asian businesses they have strange ideas, which come down to compulsory social conformity. So often ill will builds up in a shopping center, and so the lease does not get renewed.

There are also some court precedents in San Jose which make it harder for shopping center tenants and owners to remove unwanted solicitors or picketers. This can be both good and bad. I've gotten involved in some disputes.

Again, unlike the suburbs, in San Jose things can get quite contentious and the police always end up being the arbiters.

For myself, I've been involved in lots of sidewalk campaigns against business operators. Usually in the end the business is gone, or sold to a new owner, with the original owner's equity trashed. But usually police end up out there.

Things are also contentious in San Jose because though police do try to keep the peace, they still decline to respond to lots of calls. Not like this at all in the suburbs. San Jose has been in a financial meltdown and a war with the police and fire unions. The new Mayor Sam Liccardo had definitely made things worse. His first act as Mayor was to fire the City Manager and have security remove him from the building. This Manager was making good progress in restoring trust. Sam Liccardo is a piece of shit, and the people behind him are scum.

Notice also that the recent AMP closures on Bascom, where the DA's Office is being quoted in the newspapers, that is actually unincorporated

Now of course I support AMPs and don't want them closed. But the authorities do have the right to enforce the law. My point here is that in San Jose, police are really stretched beyond their limits now. This is why the real nice Viet AMPs are making such a comeback. Best of course is when they have girls coming from San Francisco and they dress and behave more slutty.

SJG

Kicking a customer out could cost a club thousands in lost revenue the customer would have spent over a year or many thousands over several years if that customer and or friends went elsewhere after the incident. It could cost tens of thousands if the customer told a lot of other customers to avoid the club.