More human trafficking bull shit.

Politicians are in a neck-and-neck race with child molesters & terrorists for lowest human life forms imaginable,

Why can't Ted Cruz threaten to carpet bomb politicos along w/ISIS?... and then proceed to step on a IED himself when he's finished doing that.

Sounds like a WIN-WIN strategy there... and he'd definitely get my vote if he ever did that.
Albeit posthumously for him.

Fuk this Dembinsky asshole and his disingenuous bullshit blather.....

Scat,when you ordered your Mexican mail order bride was that not a form of human trafficking?And was she a squirter?

That's small town politics. They have nothing better to do but decide they are going to fight for some moral cause and don't think about what problems passing their local ordinances will cause. In this case they caused trouble for one business and the female dancers who are likely all pissed at city hall. net result: mission failure big time, typical for small town city councils who know nothing and don't think. However like in this case, they have people who think they know it all.

We have the same problem in my town. The religious right citizens and the city councilmen want the strip clubs GONE. So they pull tactics like this so the SC owners (and customers) will pack up on their own.

Of course they are targeting strip clubs. What other type of business is regulated to address a problem that nobody knows to be an actual problem?

Yeah, and I guess spring breakers aren't a problem anymore so the city "fathers" have to fuck with someone. Why not us?
SHEEESH !

Human trafficking is a problem and it should be illegal. However, I think legalizing sex would reduce (not elimate, unfortunately) human trafficking. If sex workers viewed cops as people they could go to for help the world would be a better place.

^ Can't agree with you there. Countries that legalized prostitution actually have increased human trafficking, and it's a problem for every country. Because most people don't grow up thinking they wanna be a prostitute so not enough supply to meet the demand, you remove all the legal roadblocks and people who normally wouldn't pay for sex when it was illegal now will when it's legal. Demand increases, not enough supply to meet it.

Amsterdam has had problems where even legal brothels are used as fronts by organized crime where they kidnap women, some from other countries, and force them to work as hookers. There have been cases where prostitutes who choose to work at an establishment, not forced, had no clue some of their co-workers were actually kidnapped and enslaved against their will.

And even in countries where it's legal, illegal brothels still pop up because criminals don't want to share their money with the government, so they can charge even less and still make more money.

Call me a moral fag, I don't care. I'm fine with porn (yes I'm aware it sort of is prostitution, but at least the actors know each other and are sort of on equal footing), strip clubs, nude art, etc, I think of myself as a sex positive guy, and think the world is way too sexually repressed but I just don't agree with prostitution. And human trafficking is one of those many reasons and before you say it, no none of my other reasons are religious. It just seems so empty and hallow to me when it becomes a business, if someone wants to have sex with me, I want it to be because they actually wanna have sex with me, not because I flashed some money in front of them. That and it just sends a message that women are just things that are only good for sex and nothing else, and I don't agree with that.

I know someone is gonna argue dating is kind of prostitution, but I give a chick a gift because I like her and wanna make her happy, not because I'm trying to buy sex. If sex happens it happens and fantastic, if it doesn't but we still had a fun night then fantastic. I'm dating because I actually wanna have relationship with this person, not just sex. Yeah sex is a part of it, but there's more to a relationship than just sex.

I'm rambling, not trying to come off as talking down to you guys (and gals), nor am I trying to tell you what to do, it's your life and you're free to do what you want, just giving my point of view.

Forget to say, yeah people argue that banning alcohol didn't work, but alcohol isn't a person, it doesn't care if it's bought, sold and used. We aren't talking products here, these are people we are talking about, someone's kid.

Legalizing prostitution perhaps may not stop or decrease human trafficking but keeping-it illegal is not the answer – prohibition does not work – e.g. the dry-era in the 1920s.

I’m no expert on the subject but I once heard that there are actually more human beings trafficked in the *non*-sex industry than in the sex-industry – it’s just many of those that are anti-sex industry will use human-trafficking as their way to get rid of the sex-industry which they don’t want even if there was no human-trafficking involved.

As I posed when I first joined, an Adult Entertainment license is a loosing deal. It authorizes people to do nothing that they couldn't do before. All it does is cast their activity into a suspect category and make it subject to all sorts of regulations which don't apply any where else.

SJG

I am not for human trafficking. They don't know they have a problem so they make an ordinance against it. Sounds like the logic used in building the ship that couldn't sink, until it did, in the frigid Atlantic.

Again, accept the Adult Entertainment categorization, and you can expect them to be inspecting you for absolutely anything, and without any probable cause.

SJG

Watching the Mercury News, as things started melting down in Santa Clara City Hall the day after the Super Bowl,

I stumble upon:
Super Bowl 50: Human trafficking crackdown yielded dozens of arrests, citations
http://www.mercurynews.com/sports/ci_294…

Also, @cantsleep wrote, "Countries that legalized prostitution actually have increased human trafficking, and it's a problem for every country. "

The problem with this is that "trafficking is extremely ill defined. One book gave the example of a man who spends half of his year in Europe as a stock broker, and the other half resting in his native India.

Is he a human trafficking victim?

No, it mostly means sex workers. But I remember one radio show about this. A woman who had worked in Spain returned to her home village in Africa and they went all out and put on a 3 day long event. She is by far the richest person in the village.

So if a woman voluntarily becomes a prostitute and does it elsewhere, is everyone involved a trafficker?

The American Trafficking Victims Protection Act, signed into law by G. W. Bush, defines trafficking, a 10 year federal felony, and extreme trafficking, a 20 year federal felony.

Just ordinary trafficking does not require that there be force, fraud, coercion, or juveniles. And it doesn't seem to require crossing borders or going any specific distance.

Is this right?

Once a Sunnyvale AMP girl asked if I would drive her to San Francisco. She was from the East Coast. I found her window shopping a Sunnyvale AMP and we sessioned. She could see that I liked her. So she asked if I would drive her to San Francisco where she was to start work the next morning.

So that Sunnyvale shop was part of a rotation circuit.

This girl seemed like she probably also was offering a nice civilian leaning night, like maybe dinner and overnight sex.

If I hadn't of been married, that is exactly what would have been suggesting myself.

But then if I dropped her off at her new place in San Francisco, would I have been a perpetrator of this lesser form of ordinary trafficking?

Some of this is also being driven by these T and U visas they are offering for those who rat out the traffickers. Most see it as a sex worker retirement program. They have to rat people out, then they can get the visa. No need to show fraud or coercion, only a minimum of "psychological distress".

One San Jose attorney who deals with all Vice cases, and especially Asian prostitution, talked about a Korean girl written about in a long serious of articles in the San Francisco Chronicle. "She's working the system. She's working that system ( Korean circuit which brings girls in via Mexico, then to Los Angeles, then to San Francisco ), and now she's working this system ( US immigration and law enforcement ).

I'm happy to give sex workers every break.

But I feel that most of this trafficking concern is bogus. What one book said was that the feminist movement lost its war against the evils of porn, mostly because the internet has made it universal. So now it is "trafficking".

So yes, if you legalize prostitution you will have more foreign born prostitutes coming to work.

Bring it on! I've been enjoying it for over 25 years already. So I'm more than ready!

And I say Amnesty International is right, decriminalization is the best way to protect sex workers from abuse.

The above mentioned girl in the San Francisco Chronicle did suffer some degrading situations and problematic people. But decriminalization, along with legal reforms back in Korea, would have been the best remedy.

Here, from this page, it then goes to 4 parts on sfgate about the Korean girl
http://www.humantrafficking.org/updates/…


I'll read the Mercury News article now.

SJG

Jon B.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qurhsou1…

Fair enough cantsleep, I did a quick google and found a peer-reviewed study that backs up your mechanism.

I just can't fight the feeling, however, that there the right experiment hasn't been done. Imagine if you had a system where all the crazy stories that get told on here were perfectly legal, but there was also severe anti-human trafficking penalties and strip clubs had to have clear records. I can't believe that most club owners would risk jail and an investment in a club to get slightly cheaper labor.

I'm anti-drug but pro-legalization. I just believe the costs, both in terms of budgetary costs and costs to our freedom by promoting a militarized police, are higher than the damage drugs do. And believe me, I know the damage drugs can do because one of my best high school friends almost lost his life to them. I think legalization of some drugs, potentially with keeping other drugs illegal and mandating treatment or allowing addicts to enter maintenance programs rather than jail. Jail is expensive, and it costs all of our tax dollars.

I just seems to me that prostitution, legalized correctly, might have a similar effect. My suspicion is that it would be impossible to push trafficking to zero. The question is whether it would be possible to legalize prostitution and keep things neutral or even reduce it a bit. But the expanded demand effect always outweighs the substitution effect your right and I'm wrong. I'd just like to see more actual analysis to make sure that pattern holds before I believe it.

^^^^^ !!!!

SJG

We've had many contentious discussions about human trafficking here, especially as it applies to AAMPs and AMPs.

In common parlance the concept is extremely ill defined. And in current federal law it is just as ill defined.

So I say we have to distinguish between two conditions:

1. Situations where sex workers are coerced, forced, or misled, or are expected to work under bad conditions where their being in a strange place places them at a disadvantage, or they are somehow being threatened, or juveniles are involved.

AND

2. The migrations of sex workers freely and for their own benefit, where they have the ability to change shops or return home or otherwise get out of any bad conditions and where there has been no misrepresentation and there are no juveniles involved.

Unless we make these distinctions we should stop talking about trafficking.

And then also, when there are still problems in situation 2, I say that Amnesty International is correct that decriminalization is the best way to solve the problems and protect sex workers from abuse.

Decriminalization of sex work is also the best way to expose places where situation 1 is occurring.

SJG

Coffee Girl Gallery
http://www.vietnamesecoffeeshops.com/gal…

Miles Davis
Nature Boy, playlist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDS_nqHa…

I'm a Tea Party conservative when it comes to government butting out of our private business, which includes sexual acts between consenting adults. Even if they are paid. Sex trafficking is kidnapping and enslavement. These are crimes against the state and there is no such thing as consent. While the Tea Party and I are not exactly breaking crumpets anytime soon, I do wish they'd walk the walk and stand up for individual freedom from government oppression, like prostitution, legalizing virtually all drugs, sexually oriented entertainment and a woman's right to collect money for sex.

I do not agree with the liberal philosophy that it's a proper role of government to 'protect us from ourselves'. I am in favor of the government protecting me against those who would harm me from within our boarders and outside them, but not within the walls of my house (or a club).

:)

SJG

Or what at this point I would say is "Stop trying to enforce laws on the marriage-prostitution continuum. It is not practical to stop polygamy or prostitution. But, we must protect children, and this means that we have to provide safe places for them and alternatives to The Family. No child should ever be trapped within a family home, and they should never be without recourse. Adults can do what they want, but children must be protected, and they never have been."

SJG

well put rockstar

additional discussion of human trafficking and also Super Bowl 50:
https://www.tuscl.net/postread.php?PID=4…

SJG

Santa Clara County Anti-Human Trafficking Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE8tZafM…

"
Still, champions of the crackdown list the Bay Area and Silicon Valley as among America’s highest risk areas for human trafficking, especially labor trafficking, which is three times more prevalent than sex trafficking worldwide.
"

"
Cindy Chavez, center, has taken the lead on publicizing human trafficking at the county, which some critics suggest may be a form of political star building.
"

"
On Dec. 1, county Supervisor Cindy Chavez led a press conference announcing the plastering of human trafficking awareness signs on all 350 VTA vehicles. The predominant poster depicts a young, light brown-skinned teen with an American flag bandana blindfolding him. Next to hotline numbers read the phrase: “Don’t Be Blind: If you see or suspect human trafficking, say something.”
"

Yes, these posters are everywhere right now! Usually PSA posters going up means that we are in an economic down turn, so they can't otherwise sell the ad space.

http://www.sanjoseinside.com/2016/01/21/…

"Maggie McNeill writes a blog on the lives of sex workers that is critical of law enforcement's approach to human trafficking."
https://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2014…

“[Anti-trafficking organizations] are all profiting from the criminalization of prostitution,” she said. “If the police weren’t out arresting people for prostitution and trafficking them into their bogus services, their ass would be out of a job.”

SJG

Shocking Blue - Venus (1969)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPEhQugz…

Los Bravos - Black Is Black (1966)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsv7USKm…

San Francisco - Scott McKenzie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bch1_Ep5…

The Moody Blues - Nights In White Satin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9muzyOd4…

@rockstar666: +1,000,000