Is a RIL also a PL? And is this always what strippers have to deal with?

All RIL's are PL's but not all PL's are RIL's

Draw out your Venn diagram

"All RIL's are PL's but not all PL's are RIL's"

Agreed, as some PL's don't get into RIL territory.

But I would still say then that a RIL is a guy who tries to pursue a pretty intense relationship with the girl ITC. Why does he do this? Hard to really know. But fair or not, it makes him incontrovertibly a PL.

And the girls know this. So they hold back until the guy proves that he is not an ITC RIL. The girls have to do this.

Strip Clubs and AMPs and Hostess Dancing Clubs attract guys who for some reason are socially disabled, except in that fantasy identity place of the club.

It is sad, but I am convinced that most of the guys the girls deal with are like this. That was why decades ago with the Sunnyvale Brass Rail, I came home after my visit the night before to find my girl's voice on my answering machine. "I want to SEE you." She gets all kinds of offers, RIL talk, and P4P OTC offers, and she doesn't accept either. I was the one who was different. She said so too.

I am convinced from spending so many hours in strip clubs myself that I have to be considered a PL, that most of the guys the girls deal with are somehow socially disabled ( like being married, broke, or just totally inexperienced ) or they are guys who want to use P4P to treat them negatively.

I think the girls actually get so bored and lonely, that eventually the start to accept P4P OTC offers, just so they don't have to be alone.

SJG

Just Call My Name (I'll Be There) - Blackmore's Night youtube.com

You may be overthinking things a wee bit, you cheeky monkey :)

LOL. ... Okay, just to keep things spiced up, I'll tell you that you'd be incredibly frustrated if the girl you were waiting for was with me that day. I've talked about my M.O. many times now. I grab my girl -- who, chances are, I've already made an appointment with by text -- as soon as I walk in, and for the entire 4-ish hour trip, I expect her to stay with me the entire time, no other dances. If you're in the clubl for an hour or two, you may not see me do a single dance with her, and wonder why the fuck she's staying iwth me and why she shot you down when you sent the bouncer over on your behalf to ask whether she'd do a dance with you ... But in the end, she'll be happier with her rewards if she just sits and plays ball with me, which is why she does it. I realize it does piss off other guys, and one fuck less I could not give.

I'm definitely not a RIL. A PL, we are all guilty as charged :)

Well sometimes it can work out my current bf was a RIL PL for months and eventually I gave him a chance and never looked back.

But to answer your question, yes dancers have to deal with this a lot. I have had several regulars who where in live with me and as awful as it sounds I knew they where and so I'd use that to milk all the money I could out of them. It great for the dancer (unless they get stalkerish) but not so great for the sad bloke in love with her. And even if there not a great spender they can be a plus to have if there good conversation. Cause if it's dead I rather have someone I can talk to then it be dead and being bored

Subraman, yes I forgot about you. And I do understand your M.O.

So why do you keep seeing the girl ITC, instead of taking her home or to a motel and fucking her brains out? And why isn't she making your breakfast in the mornings?

Is it because you want to drink and the strip club is a better environment for that?

Phoenix133, you are new here. Sorry I have tell you, the general consensus on the forum and about the entire country, is that dancers usually end up having the worst of the worst losers as boyfriends. We talk about this in thread after thread.

I know this is not fair, as these guys don't have anything intrinsically wrong with them. But it is just how our society works, and often it is the result of familial child abuse. Hot looking and most personable and intelligent dancers end up hitched to the worst.

I don't mean this as a value judgment, but just as an objective appraisal of the near universal situation.

Sorry

SJG

Take These Broken Wings -- Recovery from Schizophrenia without Medication (FULL FILM) youtube.com

SJG: yes, ITC fun and OTC are not remotely mutually exclusive,and I enjoy both. ITC is not just a vehicle to get OTC for me, I genuinely like being in the strip club and fraternizing with strippers there. I love drinking with her in the club, especially if my buddies are there, too. But obviously enough, that's not sufficient for me -- I have to be able to enjoy her OTC attention too, or otherwise I move on.

Well if you are also seeing her OTC, then you don't qualify as a RIL. As I see it, the RIL is someone who never delivers on outside contact.

Most people, at least as I see it, would not continue to come to her club once they are seeing her outside. They might go to different clubs instead.

But I understand you now. And yes, strip club environments, though expensive, do have an appeal. I think this is also why some guys like to go for the food too.

SJG

Blackmore's Night - Under a Violet Moon Live youtube.com

That strippers end up with loser BF's, I think it has something to do with both being marginalized types. The girl is marginalized, in a stigmatized state, but she still has money. The guy for some reason is also marginalized. But for a man, this means you won't have money.

Sad. But I am convinced that most of it comes from familial child abuse. Some local and very self aware dancers have said as much.

SJG

Blackmore's Night - Castles & Dreams youtube.com

Sjg I used the term PL because that's the type of customer grouping really I would say for any customer.

My bf is wonderful he's a gentlemen (most of the time. ) he trys to be understanding (he's not strong in this area cause he grew up very well off with virtually no real problems. But he trys to understand none the less which is what matters.) Also he has a well paying job he makes more then most people his age. He's good looking, funny, and in general quite the catch. We dont share all the same interests but we respect each others interests and try to be envolved in each others interests and hobbies even if its not our cup of tea. He has his flaws but so does everyone.

"PL because that's the type of customer grouping really I would say for any customer."

That's how it gets used here too. It is used lightly. But ask people, I believe that most of us believe that it is the absolute truth. It applies to each of us, and to almost anyone who spends serious time in strip clubs.

SJG

TUSCL members using the term PL to describe themselves in a tongue in cheek self-deprecating way is harmless. Dancers using it in a malicious or derogatory way is different. You have to consider the environment in which certain words are used. It's not always black or white.

Also sjg not all people that are RIL that get OTC stop going to the club. My bf and I when I worked regularly came in to see me all the time even when I would be meeting with him later that night. (No one knew we were together obviously though since you are not allowed to have out side relationships with customers. ) Everyone simply thought he was my favorite customer and he never left without getting 1 lap dance and buying me at least 1 drink so he still spentone on me as well.

I realize now that this subject of RIL's gets into touchy territory. I really was just thinking about my unpleasant day at the Pink Poodle years back when the girl I liked was throwing herself at some guy, and probably making a fool out of herself, making it hard for the entire shift to make any money, and the guy probably never going to see her outside.

I have been RIL.

I have been a PL.

I am a PL today, and mean this seriously.

That I have such a horribly failed marriage behind me, even further makes me a PL.

The guy at the Pink Poodle was probably not a RIL or a PL, and the girl could tell this. But this does not mean he will see her outside.

I think back to two at Sunnyvale Sporty's Bar ( then Candid Club ). The amount of time alone that I spent in there alone qualifies me as a PL.

One girl S. and another N.

S. had just gotten laid off from an Office Manager job. She looked okay, but she had no experience and it took her quite a while to get into the costuming and dolling up.

I asked her how she liked it, and she explained it was better than, "staying home and getting beat up."

Then the other girls were teasing her about having civilian dates at 2am.

She said, "Well when am I supposed to date?"

Now I would have loved to have been taking her off on a date at 2am. But I was a married creepy PL cheating on his wife.

Then I learned that they got a call on their pay phone, S. was in Vegas and married. So she was retired.

Then there was N., Cambodian, Laotian, and Thai, and with her parents in Minnesota.

She was really hot looking too. But usually she had a black boyfriend. The other girls always said the guys lived off of her. And then listening to her, she would just move out and abandon her stuff, like her clothes, high heels, and dance wear. So she always had nothing, like a stray cat. At one point it sounded like she wanted to move in with me, like immediately, and with all customary benefits. She didn't drive so she needed to work day shifts.

She always talked about dancing as something she "had to do". I told her that that sort of thinking was no good.

Then she had a white boyfriend. Then it sounds like he tried to intercede as she did a private floor air dance. He started a fight. He got kicked out and then the next day she quit dancing and made a big scene out of quitting. But then the guy got laid off, so she started dancing again. But then he dumped her because of this. So as she was dancing again I told her that she can't do stuff like that.

She never ever said a word about her parents. There was clearly some sort of a rift.

Most people in normative society have family based identities. So those of us that don't are delegitimated.

Well N. was delegitimated.

Then there was V. at Sunnyvale Hip Hugger, from the east coast, explained that she ran away from home and had been on her own ever since the age of 13.

And then K. at Pink Poodle, very similar story. K. I think did do OTC's, and she did really like me, and me her.

Then after K. vanished I met this guy who was clearly a boyfriend pimp, and he claimed to have been associated with K. Not sure if that was true, or if he was just helping himself to her well liked name. He could just say he had been engaged to K. at the Pink Poodle, and most people, the sorts like me that he would be dealing with, would know of her.

And then this movie, Whore 2 imdb.com

Guy goes to New York to write a book about street hookers. Yes, they are losers.

But he ends up in relationship with one in particular. He says she is just like himself, a loser among losers. She has abdominal stab wound scars.

A girl I liked, who did not like me, at the biggest dive I have ever been in, Georges Rock'n Robin in San Jose, has scars that to me looked abdominal stab wounds. She refused to tell me what caused them.

For a man to have an income he has to be something or somebody. This guy the Pink Poodle girl was throwing herself at was somebody. But most of the Pink Poodle customers were like me, PL's.

For a woman to have an income, she does not have to be something or somebody, she just has to be a woman.

So male PL's are broke, whereas female PL's make good money.

This is harsh, but I believe true.

I do not go along with the innate moral defect, self-reliance ethic, boot straps stuff, not at all.

But I also know that people live hard lives.

I've explained to this forum that I helped put a guy in San Quentin who was sexually fondling his three daughters.

Well know what the two parents were trying to do? Send the girls to a kind of therapy, really brainwashing, to make the girl's memories go away.

en.wikipedia.org

In my voluminous writings to the DA, I made much of this over and over and over. I also made much of the fact that everyone in their church has at least on scapegoat child.

Children are abused in the family and they have no life in this world. So they become PL's.

They end up in Psychotherapy and the Recovery Movement, and these are just more abuse. They end up seeking Salvation. They end up being the targets of the outreach ministry from that Pentecostal Molester's church. I would write much about this to the DA and the court too. That church tells people that all of their problems come from them being "rebellious". This means that anytime anyone does not accept their parents that they are rebelling against God just like Adam and Eve did.

And so you have these abused Adult Children just continually getting reabused, and always by people who are in denial themselves.

And of course most of the people in that church have their own histories with drugs, alcohol, and spousal abuse. But this was before they got Saved, of course.

And then they always have at least one blacksheep child. And they all believe in psychiatric medication, and some of them, like the one I help put in San Quentin, was on it.

He had a midlife crisis, like he couldn't take his worthless career or his horrid marriage anymore. But he let the doctors convince him that he had a brain chemical imbalance and so he need to be on mind destroying meds for the rest of his life. And he believes this. He is terrified about what could happen if he didn't have them.

Well he has sexually abused the girls. With the eldest boy he got him removed from the home and from school on the pretext that he too needed to be on psych meds for the rest of his life.

It is really really sick, the whole thing!

One shining light in this. That eldest boy turned against his parents and the White Coats. He flushed his meds down the toilet. A few days before the trial he showed up at the parents home and started pounding overhand on their front door. He kept pounding until some small casement windows cracked.

Then during closing arguments he came to the trial and sat with the girls.

So there is some hope, at least for this group of siblings.

But I know others who are terrified of what they think would happen to them if they were without their psych meds. And mostly what it comes down to is childhood familial abuses which are unredressed.

SJG

They give kids meds for ADHD, and this guarantees that many will go on to Bipolar. They give them meds for this, and this guarantees that many will go on to Schizophrenia youtube.com

Ringo Starr: It Don't Come Easy (Starr, 1971) youtube.com

The people that I do along with in interpreting this are:

Jean Paul Sartre

Simone de Beauvoir

Harry Stack Sullivan

Thomas Szasz

R. D. Laing

D. G. Cooper

Michel Foucault

Giles Deleuze

Felix Guattari

Alice Miller

Daniel Mackler

Peter Breggin

Robert Whitaker

Sami Timimi

SJG

also Jeffrey Masson

amazon.com

SJG

and also David Smail, who just passed away.

en.wikipedia.org

SJG

SJG is saying something again. I see lots of words. But they swim across the page, they blend together, I think I'm loosing consciou

Lmao JS69

Ontario Canada, Universal Basic Income!!!!

sciencealert.com

I think a basic income guarantee is mandatory. Capitalism is what creates unemployment. And Cecil Williams and the people who run Guild Memorial United Methodist Church in San Francisco have got it right. Poverty is caused by social marginalization.

So a corollary is simply this, everyone wants to do well. They want to win the admiration of family and friends. So if they are not doing well, then there must be some social marginalization or disability at work here. But as the main problem is marginalization, then we should not talk about disability, as usually this just means more marginalization.

And of course it is absurd that people should be accepting psychiatric labels. These are just an extreme form of oppression.

So for there to be justice there has to be this basic income guarantee, or what amounts to cradle to grave welfare.

The typical person on welfare takes far less out of our economy than those employed do. And if the welfare recipient is not driving around much in a car, then they are treading far more lightly on the earth than those who senselessly burn up gas and dump CO2 into the atmosphere to do jobs which produce absolutely nothing which people need to live.

Now welfare takes money out of gov't coffers, but in the US welfare has never been more than 3% of federal expenditure. This is much less than corporate welfare and other expenses directed to the betterment of the middle class in order to maintain political allegiance, or to keeping the poor down. So welfare is a cheaper way to keep our society going than the present state of affairs.

And then as far as federal accounts, it is the federal gov't which controls the printing press, the furnace, and interest rates which multiply the availability of money by the inverse of the interest rate. Suffice to say, federal accounts and the money supply are all under gov't control, hence it is artificial. It is just a matter of who and what are being served by it.

So as those who are not doing well are simply the victims of social injustice, we must redress this social injustice.

1. Stop using psychiatric labels, learning disability labels, or morality labels.

2. Offer people value producing work, not nonsense just to get a paycheck.

3. Provide this cradle to grave welfare system as efficiently as possible, and understand that everyone wants to be a useful and meaningful part of our society.

4. Follow my recommendation and hold parents accountable for exploiting their children, using them to give themselves a adult identity. This amounts to psychological child abuse. So besides criminal prosecution where practical, also prevent disinheritance and offer something like a divorce from one's parents when their is parent v child animosity. Make the parents pay, and pay dearly. Make it so that child exploitation no longer pays.

5. And for those who insist on calling the poor lazy or immoral, know that this is how Capitalism works. It is the family where this starts, with the designation of a child as the blacksheep. Those who denigrate the poor are just doing what their parents did to them. So the poor and marginalized need to start standing up for themselves rather than submitting. They and all of us must start engaging in public advocacy and non-violent civil disobedience.

6. And then since the New Economy and Libertarianism are really just the old Social Darwinism and Eugenics Movement, saying that the poor are not fit to compete, we all need to be prepared to do more than just be non-violent. We don't want to be like Anne Frank's father, hiding in an attic waiting for the Gestapo. We need to be ready to engage in guerrilla warfare, the use of lethal force, and without taking prisoners. Unless we are willing to do this, then we are helping the eugenicists who say that we are not fit to live. Gandhi and Jesus lived in violent revolutionary times. They were only able to accomplish their works because others were maintaining the constant threat of lethal violence on a large scale.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare

Mr. IME, thank you for replicating my post and bumping this old thread!

SJG

Beethoven's 9th youtube.com