Serious Topic on Try'n Too Hard
GACA
Un-retired: Met my ATF. Married her. Divorcing her.
Tuesday, September 8, 2015 10:12 PM
Ok, so now I'm not joking. I was told I was trying to hard. After reading these boards I felt like I hit the sweet spot for OTC. Poor as area, the girls ehh 7 tops.
Now I have "given rides" home to a few on occasion, but I have not yet been able to pay for an OTC experience. And I'm not saying "boo-hoo" I thought it was cool being asked for rides home. But what isn't cool is wanting to establish an OTC and not being able to do so.
Yes, I'm being a but picky obviously, but really (Subra, JS69, anyone ) jump in and let me know exactly how the shot goes down?
Now I have "given rides" home to a few on occasion, but I have not yet been able to pay for an OTC experience. And I'm not saying "boo-hoo" I thought it was cool being asked for rides home. But what isn't cool is wanting to establish an OTC and not being able to do so.
Yes, I'm being a but picky obviously, but really (Subra, JS69, anyone ) jump in and let me know exactly how the shot goes down?
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52 comments
LOL
I think it puts a bit of pressure on them if you straight up proposition them and it shifts their mindset when things are stated so explicitly.
I always try to treat dancers the way I would treat any other girl. And I think it requires offering some degree of plausible deniability. Women want sex on the first date just like we do. They just need an excuse. Let them blame it on the wine. The heat of the momment. Let them know you're non judgemental. If a dancer ever comments on how another stripper is giving extras I always say something like we'll who am I to judge what two consenting adults agree too or we all have to pay the bills somehow.
I think most are willing to prostitute but only if you can let them see it as something else.
Back on it. I asked point blank what's up with it, and that's when she told me I was trying to hard. Obviously I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but with you and JS69 making it sound pretty easy, I'm actually wondering how you do it. I mean do you get it with the girl you want to or are you settling for whatever is available?
Hookers or extras friendly clubs with hookers for stripper s such as follies is the easy as pie
Good luck bro
The skill based and the follies easy way
I suggest you move on and make new waves tweeting your approach with other girls. Be direct and don't mince words when asking for what you want, but more importantly timing is key. Ask when the vibe is good and the trust has been established. Most girls will give you hints that they want you to ask, and this is the timing where you ask.
A whole lot of money helps to get a girl to do OTC.
If you have the means, I highly recommend it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0wALArd2rv…
Unfortunately the ones who bring it up usually are 6s at best.
Seriously dude, don't be so serious. :) Just play it cool. Each legit 9 that I ever took OTC took time to land. I spent enough to keep them intrigued, but never so much that they got fat off of my payments. After casually inquiring the first time and invariably receiving a no, I just let them know that there was good money available if they changed their minds and that they would be my first choice if they did so. Then I would pop back in every so often to see them. Often I would leave early because I had "other plans" with a girl from another club or would be waiting for another girl in the same club and they already knew what that meant.
Over time, if things are cool and some comfort develops, the opportunity will open up naturally. All it takes is one sucky night ITC or one day where she wants to earn but would like to skip the club altogether. But no girl is going to want to go OTC if you seem too intense of desperate. Just chill dude. Most of the girls that I deal with would swear that I don't give a shit about almost anything, which is not true but it's certainyl what I want them to believe. It helps to have a few pokers in the fire spread among a few different clubs, which is usually the case with me.
Good luck man!
I have a good friend who always struggled with this even up to his 50s. Heck, he freaked one girl out so badly with his intensity, no doubt in part because he tracked her over multiple clubs, that she asked me to back him off (which I did). This chick was a verified cock sucker and would have been a sure OTC target if he had just been able to play it cool, but he couldn't back then. Then something happened in his 60s that seemed to relax him a lot in the clubs. The difference between then and now is remarkable and it definitely opened up his OTC game.
Amen brother good advice
But if this to much for you just like mikea said go to follies or clubs similar to it
It's partially luck, it's partially technique, it's partially confidence, and it's is partially money.
On luck, I suggest praying to the strip club gods first. They haven't done me wrong yet.
On technique, I combine the straight forward approach with the SJG romance approach. Make clear what you want. Be direct. But don't push. Be casual, have a take it or leave it attitude. And talk about sex in a non creepy way. Ask her sexual turn ons. Offer to do them for her. Be clear that you are not selfish sexually. Be clear that you will pay her fairly. Be the kind of customer that she'd be least repulsed by.
On confidence, you can't come across as the PL that you are. Act like you know what you're doing. Put her at ease. Be a take charge guy who guarantees her safety. Be clear that you aren't creepy. And you'd like to give her some more money if she wound only take it. But don't beg. You've got lots of options.
Gradually escalate the pressure on each club visit. Talk more explicitly. Be clear that you're spending on her is about to end. But it doesn't have to, it can grow. Dangle the promise of continued money before her eyes, and keep making your case. Keep pointing out that she doesn't have to share this money with the club. Imagine tasting her vagina while you say these things, it will help you come across as more sincere.
On the subject of money, to move things along I sometimes just pay the girl, or promise to pay her, more money, until she can't say no. The little head promised DS2 what I pay DS1. And I tipped her $100 on stage. I helped her to her first $1,000 night. She was so grateful. Saying no was no longer an option. I am a key element to the success of her new stripping career.
Oh, and wear deodorant.
If this doesn't work after 3-4 visits, move on. Spend money on other viable candidates, and not on her. Cast a wide net. Make offers to several dancers. Go shopping all over town. Some will take the bait.
Amen god damn good advice
You know, in the end not every girl does OTC. I get turned down or led on, I've just fallen for it enough times that now I cut my losses so fast that it doesn't count as a strike to me :) For all I know, I wouldn't have gotten your girl OTC either... on the other hand, no one EVER told me "you're trying too hard", which is a phrase girls use when your behavior is ... suboptimal (lol). I'd shrug my shoulders and just say "GACA just ran into some chick who doesn't do OTC, that's all" if it weren't for that phrase...
Next time, ask what her work schedule is and if it's okay to stop by again; let her know that you'd like to spend some time with her -- and in so doing, some money on her. Try to do it less than a week later. Keep things fresh, not ready to get tossed out.
Smoking hot girls do not play long winded shit games.
They will F you if they want you. She will not mince words because she knows she is f-ing hot.
And these super model looking ladies will just ignore you if they don't like you. Or probably be nice enough to pull money out of your wallet.
And of course money is a key issue no matter the dancers experience or hotness. Those who are on the fence about OTC (which is my DS2) may play if you just offer more money.
I just find it too much that girls that I consider not on my league simply because they are way too beautiful are also falling to my moves.
To me, that's just too much to handle.
I think that happened to me many times in the past and I still can't explain it.
With my CF1, we just simply found a nice level we can hold onto each other and we simply just go there when we want to connect. She made it very simple for me to enjoy her.
Whereas the CF2, we are just breaking the ice and things are just not meshing pretty well right now. So, it will take time to get it going smoothly. More shit testing coming her way, until she gives up on my shit test or I give up on her stripper shit.
I get laid. I've gotten laid for free from a few strippers. That isn't the issue.
My issue is setting up an "on-demand" OTC arrangement. If I'm going to pay for it, I'd like it to be with a girl I couldn't get otherwise. I hit freely 7's and occasional 8's. I've hit a 9 but few and very far between. So, I was hoping to at least set up OTC with a few.
So with this particular girl, and I would not call her a 9, I felt like it would be a no brainer, she's on food stamps, white girl who lives in the projects, with a couple kids and obviously a lose baby daddy.
Have I spent a pretty penny and then some so that all the other girls in the club hate her, yes. I don't just get dances from her, but she gets the most, and everyone knows that's why I go to this club. There is no VIP at this club, or else it would have been a done deal a long time ago I'm certain.
My mistake was spending too much for the area, aND getting too drunk when I'm there. (It's super cheap compared to other places) And yes she's the most sought after here, but I don't think she'd be all that anywhere else. I think I let my ego get the best of me because, well , it's a poor as fuck place, and I'm not exactly hurting for pussy but still not in full control of my own destiny in that area. I figured a hot girl who consistently breaks me off a piece would do the trick, because every time I get consistent ass, then I get all the other ass I want. So maybe that's my "desperation"
"My issue is setting up an "on-demand" OTC arrangement. If I'm going to pay for it, I'd like it to be with a girl I couldn't get otherwise."
You need to work on your self esteem bro if you feel that there are girls that you couldn't get otherwise. I hope you get this, most of us guys feel we could get any one of these girls if we wanted. we might be wrong but we don't feel "that anyone is too good for us"
I also know that when I date a hot girl, most other girls have a 6th sense about it and it increases my rate of success with girls who otherwise seem uninterested.
I think my self esteem is actually healthier than the guy who "thinks" he can get any girl, vs knowing my current limitations and choosing to do something about it.
But thanks for the couch session, might want to read the entire post next time.
Good luck with that.
Girls are not pinball machines with coin slots in them.
They are smarter than pinball machines.
Of course, you can push but you can only push so far enough to annoy her or simply wet her down there.
I dunno dude, I don't go to SCs to get OTCs. I just go there to have some fun watching them dance on stage.
It's just that these dancers I get to meet somehow end up warming up to the idea of going out, they just blow my mind.
I guess, my expectations are kinda low and these smoking hot girls come into my life and make it awesome.
I mean, what is wrong with these girls spreading their legs out for me, bro?
That's kinda stupid.
Hilarious!
SJG
Neil Young and Pearl Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I_YkyxZ…
I'm a goal oriented person, I set goals to be achieved. One of which is an OTC interaction with a few choice strippers.
Next goal is hiking the Half Dome at Yellowstone . But a goal is a goal.
“... There is no VIP at this club ...”
So I assume no extras – thus many of the dancers may not be used to having to compete w/ ITC extras girls for $$$/biz – i.e. extras are not part of their “stripper eco system” and extras may be sorta far removed from their everyday stripper life making it perhaps a bigger gap to overcome (i.e. no-extras-ITC to FS-OTC)?
wow, i go away for a couple of hours and they move Half Dome from Yosemite to Yellowstone
was this another one of those government make work projects progressives like so much? i’ll bet it was and i’ll bet the department of education was in charge.
Let me just explain one of my own formative experiences. The first time I really tried to interact with a dancer was at the Sunnyvale Brass Rail. And this was back when I was the same age as the dancers. I was not sure if I could have any chance with them or not.
But I got a girl I liked to sit down with me, and I suggested we might go out sometime. She said, "*I* don't go out with customers."
That would be only the first affront to the honorability of my intentions that night. But soon she was almost apologetic, saying, "You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night."
I left and forgot about all of this, until the next day I came home late from work, only to find her voice on my answering machine.
What made things go for me is that I was just being completely straight with her. I was not treating her like a prostitute, a pseudo prostitute, a semi prostitute, or in anyway that I would not treat other women. This is what made the difference and made me different from all but 1 in a 1000 guys she encounters. I was not posturing. I did not have a nonchalant act, I really was nonchalant.
Now I had not intended to be one of those 50 guys, but as it worked out I was, because I really had not thought through what I was doing to do with her. Where would we go? How would work schedule and other lifestyle issues be accommodated? I started something but was not prepared to finish it. So in the end I was exposed as just another pickup artist, doing it for the sport.
I learned from this, and from all the drama, but still it would not be the last time.
Now certainly, there are girls at clubs who do P4P, and if you want that and have the money, I'm sure you won't have any problem.
If you are dealing with girls who do P4P, but you don't have the money, then I say you've got a problem. Even if they really like you, they will see their standard fee as a screening device, as an indicator of respect.
If you met the same girl in the supermarket checkout line, no problem. But as you met her in a place where she is known to do P4P, she will still want that payment.
If you can't afford it, then I say that you best just stay away. If you can't afford a venue, then you will just be treated like shit. Women are just that way.
But if you are having trouble with them other than this, other than P4P, then I believe that it is because you are not being real with them. You are posturing. You talked about pimp moves and a grove, and being nonchalant. This is all posturing, putting up barriers to keep the girls from getting their hooks into you and making you compromise with them.
And then worst of all you talked about identifying the Queen Bee. That is a crazy idea. If you do that, then you are just like them, you become one of the Queen's drones. You will be saturated with all of their drama, and then discarded by the side of the road. You become just like a peacock, cosmetic masculinity. That is a crazy thing to try.
So without knowing any specifics I still feel that this is a continuation of what we talked about before. If you want to know women and it is not strict P4P, then you have to open up with them, stop posturing, and you have to compromise with them.
The realm of full time college students who are being supported by their parents is completely different from young women who have to pay rent, and who know that they are always getting older. They have an agenda. You don't have to fully submit to them, but you do have to open yourself up to them, and posturing is not opening up.
Most of the stuff coming out of PUA circles is non-sense, They make it adversarial and they make it like you are pulling the wool over the eyes of the girls. It does not work that way. You need to be able to be real with them.
That I was real with this one at the Brass Rail was the reason she took my interest as legitimate and reciprocated. But I also say that I was not being responsible with her. I had not intended to be leading her on, but as I had not thought it through very far, I actually was leading her on.
My .02
SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…
Stones, Heartbreaker, 2015
https://youtu.be/v6QsmJ0Sg0Y?t=42m47s