Serious Topic on Try'n Too Hard

And yes "given rides" is a euphemism

GAC, fucking hot strippers is not as easy as dougster claims, but it's not as hard as you make it seem either. You haven't provided enough info to figure out if you're doing something wrong or what that something might be. for example, is this one girl you're spending all this $ on, or many girls? What have you done to try to fuck her/them besides spending all this cash? What was her/their reaction bedsides saying younger too hard? Have you tried at other clubs? Are you wearing deodorant?

Also, are you being pretty blatant about it? Too coy? Maybe you're coming off too much like a cop? I hear cops use The System to entrap strippers and hookers; the ladies might just be getting bad vibes from your white polyester suit.

^^^ LOL

Maybe you're a little too winey

Everytime OTC has been mentioned to me it's always been brought up by the dancer. I think it puts a bit of pressure on them if you straight up proposition them and it shifts their mindset when things are stated so explicitly. I always try to treat dancers the way I would treat any other girl. And I think it requires offering some degree of plausible deniability. Women want sex on the first date just like we do. They just need an excuse. Let them blame it on the wine. The heat of the momment. Let them know you're non judgemental. If a dancer ever comments on how another stripper is giving extras I always say something like we'll who am I to judge what two consenting adults agree too or we all have to pay the bills somehow. I think most are willing to prostitute but only if you can let them see it as something else.

Seeing that you started 2 separate threads within an hour of each other on this same topic I'd agree that you're trying too hard.

^^ So, if paying for sex from a hooker is this hard I'll just stick to dating civiis.

But it seems that you're asking the other girls, not the hookers

Duh...guess that 35% chance is a real kicker

Hmmm.... obviously, I have my own The System, and it's been working for me. How many times do you see the girl first? I usually see them a few times before popping the question...

Sometimes getting strippers OTC can be challenging, so don't beat yourself up about it too much. Getting hookers to see you isn't challenging at all.....if you're having trouble in that area then you should be beating the shit out of yourself.

^^^Subra, I've been going to this particular spot for about a few months now. When this particular girl in question is there I spend most of my cash on her and the bartender. I popped the question of an outside meet probably the first month I was there and of course she made the excuse of wanting to get to know me better. And you know I was okay with that because it was part of a rotation. Then probably a month later I asked again and it was the same lame excuse. So I stop spending as much on her and try to mine some other opportunities. Unfortunately in this particular club there aren't that many great opportunities. Anyway, I finally asked again, because another girl at the club (let's just say Clubber would give his left nut, and entire savings) made it pretty clear she offers OTC, while she ain't exactly my type I am looking to secure OTC for those moments in between action .

Back on it. I asked point blank what's up with it, and that's when she told me I was trying to hard. Obviously I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but with you and JS69 making it sound pretty easy, I'm actually wondering how you do it. I mean do you get it with the girl you want to or are you settling for whatever is available?

Normal strippers at the average strip club are difficult to pull and do take 6-18 months of visits and yes buying drinks, dances and so on...it takes a bank roll and investment into them

Hookers or extras friendly clubs with hookers for stripper s such as follies is the easy as pie

Good luck bro

The strip club scene really has 2 sides

The skill based and the follies easy way

What's your same size? Just these one or two girls from the same club I visit? If so you probably have developed a rep and have been flagged as "that guy".

I suggest you move on and make new waves tweeting your approach with other girls. Be direct and don't mince words when asking for what you want, but more importantly timing is key. Ask when the vibe is good and the trust has been established. Most girls will give you hints that they want you to ask, and this is the timing where you ask.

What's your "sample size" ^^^

My first OTC occurred after many blowjobs and a couple of full sex situations in VIP. At the time, VIP was a minimum 1 hour ($175 to the club, $200 for the dancer, and $100 "tip" for the extras. I was paying $475 and she was getting $300. I had free hotel rooms from hotel point programs, so I suggested that we'd do exactly the same thing only I'd pay her the $475. She thought it over for 5 seconds and we started comparing available dates. She swore she'd never done it before (bullshit), that it was "business only" (stripper shit), and that once wasn't a habit (horse shit). She quickly realized she had hit the mother lode and after 5 years of fucking at least once a week, she told me she'd fucked me more than her boyfriend over the past few years.

A whole lot of money helps to get a girl to do OTC.

If you have the means, I highly recommend it.

m.youtube.com

Thank about it – if it was that easy to pull OTC would a System be necessary?

Nuts is right. Everyone go to "sure thing" Follies ,,lol

I've had girls bring up the fact they escort. And there are girls I know wouldn't do OTC for $1,000.

Unfortunately the ones who bring it up usually are 6s at best.

I can only imagine the fixated death stare you were likely giving her as you popped the question. ;)

Seriously dude, don't be so serious. :) Just play it cool. Each legit 9 that I ever took OTC took time to land. I spent enough to keep them intrigued, but never so much that they got fat off of my payments. After casually inquiring the first time and invariably receiving a no, I just let them know that there was good money available if they changed their minds and that they would be my first choice if they did so. Then I would pop back in every so often to see them. Often I would leave early because I had "other plans" with a girl from another club or would be waiting for another girl in the same club and they already knew what that meant.

Over time, if things are cool and some comfort develops, the opportunity will open up naturally. All it takes is one sucky night ITC or one day where she wants to earn but would like to skip the club altogether. But no girl is going to want to go OTC if you seem too intense of desperate. Just chill dude. Most of the girls that I deal with would swear that I don't give a shit about almost anything, which is not true but it's certainyl what I want them to believe. It helps to have a few pokers in the fire spread among a few different clubs, which is usually the case with me.

Good luck man!

Maybe you should post your question over on StripperWeb and see what kind of valuable feedback you get

The one thing that is impossible to teach is the natural open relaxation that, IMHO, makes OTC much easier to score. It doesn't matter how much money you waive around if a girl thinks you are going to become a psycho stalker, or worse, if she fucks you.

I have a good friend who always struggled with this even up to his 50s. Heck, he freaked one girl out so badly with his intensity, no doubt in part because he tracked her over multiple clubs, that she asked me to back him off (which I did). This chick was a verified cock sucker and would have been a sure OTC target if he had just been able to play it cool, but he couldn't back then. Then something happened in his 60s that seemed to relax him a lot in the clubs. The difference between then and now is remarkable and it definitely opened up his OTC game.

@RBD don't get me wrong (and thanks for the reply you're a legend man) I fuck strippers on occasion (well waitress that work there mostly ) but I want to establish a paid-FWB experience. So maybe I wasn't playing it cool but I wasn't actually thinking I had to impress these hoes with anything other than my wallet and trustworthiness. Because why play games with these girls when I can do that sorta shut with a civii for free. Actually I'm paying do I don't have to. Anyway not saying you're wrong, just saying what's the point then?

Maybe it's the club or area. Some places things just happen. in others, they keep a tight rein.

Meat and rick are correct on this subject at your topical average club

Amen brother good advice

But if this to much for you just like mikea said go to follies or clubs similar to it

How do you do it? Here's one way to approach getting a low mileage pussy.

It's partially luck, it's partially technique, it's partially confidence, and it's is partially money.

On luck, I suggest praying to the strip club gods first. They haven't done me wrong yet.

On technique, I combine the straight forward approach with the SJG romance approach. Make clear what you want. Be direct. But don't push. Be casual, have a take it or leave it attitude. And talk about sex in a non creepy way. Ask her sexual turn ons. Offer to do them for her. Be clear that you are not selfish sexually. Be clear that you will pay her fairly. Be the kind of customer that she'd be least repulsed by.

On confidence, you can't come across as the PL that you are. Act like you know what you're doing. Put her at ease. Be a take charge guy who guarantees her safety. Be clear that you aren't creepy. And you'd like to give her some more money if she wound only take it. But don't beg. You've got lots of options.

Gradually escalate the pressure on each club visit. Talk more explicitly. Be clear that you're spending on her is about to end. But it doesn't have to, it can grow. Dangle the promise of continued money before her eyes, and keep making your case. Keep pointing out that she doesn't have to share this money with the club. Imagine tasting her vagina while you say these things, it will help you come across as more sincere.

On the subject of money, to move things along I sometimes just pay the girl, or promise to pay her, more money, until she can't say no. The little head promised DS2 what I pay DS1. And I tipped her $100 on stage. I helped her to her first $1,000 night. She was so grateful. Saying no was no longer an option. I am a key element to the success of her new stripping career.

Oh, and wear deodorant.

If this doesn't work after 3-4 visits, move on. Spend money on other viable candidates, and not on her. Cast a wide net. Make offers to several dancers. Go shopping all over town. Some will take the bait.

Papi if some one post this on stripper web i would die to read the comments

I was going to say more but johnsmith69 coverd it the best

Amen god damn good advice

"but with you and JS69 making it sound pretty easy"

You know, in the end not every girl does OTC. I get turned down or led on, I've just fallen for it enough times that now I cut my losses so fast that it doesn't count as a strike to me :) For all I know, I wouldn't have gotten your girl OTC either... on the other hand, no one EVER told me "you're trying too hard", which is a phrase girls use when your behavior is ... suboptimal (lol). I'd shrug my shoulders and just say "GACA just ran into some chick who doesn't do OTC, that's all" if it weren't for that phrase...

Thanks @JS69 that was very specific. I think I was being too nice to this particular girl because I wanted her a little too much.

GACA, you said that you asked her once, then you asked her again a month later? Personally, that's sounding like way too much time between meetings with her. Not only have you let her cool off, you might've given her the impression that you have to save up money for these visits, so any sort of business relationship would be off the table. She also might think you aren't seriously interested.

Next time, ask what her work schedule is and if it's okay to stop by again; let her know that you'd like to spend some time with her -- and in so doing, some money on her. Try to do it less than a week later. Keep things fresh, not ready to get tossed out.

PG is right. When you shop try to see her once a week. The entire process is over in less than a month. Never let it drag on for months

Here's a tip dude:

Smoking hot girls do not play long winded shit games.

They will F you if they want you. She will not mince words because she knows she is f-ing hot.

And these super model looking ladies will just ignore you if they don't like you. Or probably be nice enough to pull money out of your wallet.

i think the better test is how new they are to dancing, not how hot they are. If they have been dancing a while, then they know if they will play, and if they do they just have to get comfortable with you and agree on prices. This shouldn't take long. But if they are relatively new to dancing, even if they are very hot (this is my DS1 and DS2) it may take a few visits to get them to let you be the first.

And of course money is a key issue no matter the dancers experience or hotness. Those who are on the fence about OTC (which is my DS2) may play if you just offer more money.

I pretty much agree on what was stated above. That'll work definitely.

I just find it too much that girls that I consider not on my league simply because they are way too beautiful are also falling to my moves.

To me, that's just too much to handle.

I think that happened to me many times in the past and I still can't explain it.

With my CF1, we just simply found a nice level we can hold onto each other and we simply just go there when we want to connect. She made it very simple for me to enjoy her.

Whereas the CF2, we are just breaking the ice and things are just not meshing pretty well right now. So, it will take time to get it going smoothly. More shit testing coming her way, until she gives up on my shit test or I give up on her stripper shit.

It sounds like your own frustration and anxiousness is killing any chance that you might have. Relax and have patience and it will happen eventually.

^^^ I guess people are misinterpreting. .. I get laid. I've gotten laid for free from a few strippers. That isn't the issue.

My issue is setting up an "on-demand" OTC arrangement. If I'm going to pay for it, I'd like it to be with a girl I couldn't get otherwise. I hit freely 7's and occasional 8's. I've hit a 9 but few and very far between. So, I was hoping to at least set up OTC with a few.

So with this particular girl, and I would not call her a 9, I felt like it would be a no brainer, she's on food stamps, white girl who lives in the projects, with a couple kids and obviously a lose baby daddy.

Have I spent a pretty penny and then some so that all the other girls in the club hate her, yes. I don't just get dances from her, but she gets the most, and everyone knows that's why I go to this club. There is no VIP at this club, or else it would have been a done deal a long time ago I'm certain.

My mistake was spending too much for the area, aND getting too drunk when I'm there. (It's super cheap compared to other places) And yes she's the most sought after here, but I don't think she'd be all that anywhere else. I think I let my ego get the best of me because, well , it's a poor as fuck place, and I'm not exactly hurting for pussy but still not in full control of my own destiny in that area. I figured a hot girl who consistently breaks me off a piece would do the trick, because every time I get consistent ass, then I get all the other ass I want. So maybe that's my "desperation"

to GACA most of these guys have given you good useable advice I would only add one thing to that and it is concerning your statement

"My issue is setting up an "on-demand" OTC arrangement. If I'm going to pay for it, I'd like it to be with a girl I couldn't get otherwise."

You need to work on your self esteem bro if you feel that there are girls that you couldn't get otherwise. I hope you get this, most of us guys feel we could get any one of these girls if we wanted. we might be wrong but we don't feel "that anyone is too good for us"

^^^ thanks dude, however I'm realistic. It's simple supply demand, I know based on my experience what girls I've been able to land vs not. And it isn't that I haven't made attempts and will continue to make attempts. That said, I know where I've been most successful. This isn't a self-esteem issue but based on data.

I also know that when I date a hot girl, most other girls have a 6th sense about it and it increases my rate of success with girls who otherwise seem uninterested.

I think my self esteem is actually healthier than the guy who "thinks" he can get any girl, vs knowing my current limitations and choosing to do something about it.

But thanks for the couch session, might want to read the entire post next time.

"My issue is setting up an "on-demand" OTC arrangement. "

Good luck with that.

Girls are not pinball machines with coin slots in them.

They are smarter than pinball machines.

Of course, you can push but you can only push so far enough to annoy her or simply wet her down there.

I dunno dude, I don't go to SCs to get OTCs. I just go there to have some fun watching them dance on stage.

It's just that these dancers I get to meet somehow end up warming up to the idea of going out, they just blow my mind.

I guess, my expectations are kinda low and these smoking hot girls come into my life and make it awesome.

I mean, what is wrong with these girls spreading their legs out for me, bro?

That's kinda stupid.

JS69 wrote, " fucking hot strippers is not as easy as dougster claims, but it's not as hard as you make it seem either. "

Hilarious!

SJG

Neil Young and Pearl Jam youtube.com

@alabegonz That's awesome for you that you don't go for OTC. My only purpose for going to strip clubs is OTC, and the interaction with strippers has actually made me a whole lot more successful with civiis.

I'm a goal oriented person, I set goals to be achieved. One of which is an OTC interaction with a few choice strippers.

Next goal is hiking the Half Dome at Yellowstone . But a goal is a goal.

I think many of us as custies at one time or another fall in the habit of thinking if we are willing to spend $$$ then pretty much every dancer is supposed to take it – sure if we think about it we can come to the conclusion this is erroneous thinking – but subconsciously many of us have felt that way at some point.

“... There is no VIP at this club ...”

So I assume no extras – thus many of the dancers may not be used to having to compete w/ ITC extras girls for $$$/biz – i.e. extras are not part of their “stripper eco system” and extras may be sorta far removed from their everyday stripper life making it perhaps a bigger gap to overcome (i.e. no-extras-ITC to FS-OTC)?

^^correct Papi. But I'm up for a challenge.

@GACAclub “Next goal is hiking the Half Dome at Yellowstone . But a goal is a goal.”

wow, i go away for a couple of hours and they move Half Dome from Yosemite to Yellowstone

was this another one of those government make work projects progressives like so much? i’ll bet it was and i’ll bet the department of education was in charge.

^^^Anyway. . I knew it was one of the 'Y' parks

GACAclub, she could actually have a boyfriend but strings people along for $$ making it seem she is attainable OTC. Some girls are happy just getting by and aren't motivated by big money if they can nickel and dime their way through life.

^^Meat I actually believe that to be the case.

GACAclub, This is an interesting topic you have opened. I don't actually know much about what is up with your situation. But I remember we talked about these things a number of months ago.

Let me just explain one of my own formative experiences. The first time I really tried to interact with a dancer was at the Sunnyvale Brass Rail. And this was back when I was the same age as the dancers. I was not sure if I could have any chance with them or not.

But I got a girl I liked to sit down with me, and I suggested we might go out sometime. She said, "I don't go out with customers."

That would be only the first affront to the honorability of my intentions that night. But soon she was almost apologetic, saying, "You don't understand, I get hit on by 50 guys a night."

I left and forgot about all of this, until the next day I came home late from work, only to find her voice on my answering machine.

What made things go for me is that I was just being completely straight with her. I was not treating her like a prostitute, a pseudo prostitute, a semi prostitute, or in anyway that I would not treat other women. This is what made the difference and made me different from all but 1 in a 1000 guys she encounters. I was not posturing. I did not have a nonchalant act, I really was nonchalant.

Now I had not intended to be one of those 50 guys, but as it worked out I was, because I really had not thought through what I was doing to do with her. Where would we go? How would work schedule and other lifestyle issues be accommodated? I started something but was not prepared to finish it. So in the end I was exposed as just another pickup artist, doing it for the sport.

I learned from this, and from all the drama, but still it would not be the last time.

Now certainly, there are girls at clubs who do P4P, and if you want that and have the money, I'm sure you won't have any problem.

If you are dealing with girls who do P4P, but you don't have the money, then I say you've got a problem. Even if they really like you, they will see their standard fee as a screening device, as an indicator of respect.

If you met the same girl in the supermarket checkout line, no problem. But as you met her in a place where she is known to do P4P, she will still want that payment.

If you can't afford it, then I say that you best just stay away. If you can't afford a venue, then you will just be treated like shit. Women are just that way.

But if you are having trouble with them other than this, other than P4P, then I believe that it is because you are not being real with them. You are posturing. You talked about pimp moves and a grove, and being nonchalant. This is all posturing, putting up barriers to keep the girls from getting their hooks into you and making you compromise with them.

And then worst of all you talked about identifying the Queen Bee. That is a crazy idea. If you do that, then you are just like them, you become one of the Queen's drones. You will be saturated with all of their drama, and then discarded by the side of the road. You become just like a peacock, cosmetic masculinity. That is a crazy thing to try.

So without knowing any specifics I still feel that this is a continuation of what we talked about before. If you want to know women and it is not strict P4P, then you have to open up with them, stop posturing, and you have to compromise with them.

The realm of full time college students who are being supported by their parents is completely different from young women who have to pay rent, and who know that they are always getting older. They have an agenda. You don't have to fully submit to them, but you do have to open yourself up to them, and posturing is not opening up.

Most of the stuff coming out of PUA circles is non-sense, They make it adversarial and they make it like you are pulling the wool over the eyes of the girls. It does not work that way. You need to be able to be real with them.

That I was real with this one at the Brass Rail was the reason she took my interest as legitimate and reciprocated. But I also say that I was not being responsible with her. I had not intended to be leading her on, but as I had not thought it through very far, I actually was leading her on.

My .02

SJG sites.google.com

Stones, Heartbreaker, 2015 youtu.be