Massage Parlors

I always wondered too if there was a such thing as "white girl" massage parlors. But pretty sure some of them do provide fs.

I'm not into Asian girls either. That's why I've avoided AMPs.

By the way, where's Clubber?

Don't know about anywhere else, but here's how your questions would be answered in Louisville. Note that I've never actually been to one of the actual Asian places here, just the body rub shops.

1. Because the Asian women (often 35+ and not the prettiest) will do damn near anything you want, up to and including bareback sex in some places. There are a few local parlours that are completely legit, but most of them appear to offer at least a handjob.

The "white girl" places tend to be called "body rub" shops here, and while they can't legally offer a "massage" without a license, some of them do a creditable light or medium touch rub that is pleasant, and when done right, arousing, but you won't have your sore muscles eased like a real massage would.

There are three notable exceptions with which I'm familiar in Louisville. They're are actual licensed massage therapists (LMTs) and give excellent to outstanding massages, and a happy ending. None of them that I know of actually fuck, but one allegedly sucks dick, and one other really has the hands of an angel. My long ago series of articles about a "different experience" describes my first session with the latter girl. :)

1. Many of the Asian places apparently really do give a good massage, even the ones where you can get sex. It's not the excellent one (with a couple of notable exceptions) that you'd get at an upscale LMT place, but good.

2. Generally seems so. The body rub places get busted when they get stupid, drugs and girls outside smoking in lingerie, but they appear to be keeping up their graft payments. Some of the body rub girls work out of hotel rooms. I tend to stay away from those as more likely to be stings.

3. Depends on the place. Some girls are strictly handjobs, not even allowing you to touch her. Others will get naked and jack you off while your hands are free to go anywhere. Still others will climb up on the table/bed and suck or fuck when you're ready. Very often the first visit is a HE only, with no or limited "roaming", sometimes not removing bra or panties. Other times, usually with some kind of reference, I've been sucked off by a beautiful naked chick the first time I'm there.

4. The local prices are between $60-90 for a half hour, and $85-100 for an hour. Most of the girls expect a tip for finishing you off. There's a fair bit of variant up in both fee and expected tip, though.

5. Depending on your area, check backpage and then cross-reference with a site that does reviews, like usasexguide.info, rubmaps.com, the erotic review or something like that. Different sites are more useful in different areas. Here it's usasg, elsewhere it might be one of the others.

As for LEO, here locally, mostly he doesn't seem to care unless somebody complains, gets hurt, or is is obvious about it.

Be warned that even though usasg is free, if you come on asking for info straight away, you'll be told to shut the fuck up and share before anyone will answer your questions. None of the information is locked away or hidden from non-members though, so you can read to your heart's content. That's what I do. :)

Some of the others charge a fee, but also in some cases want real world information in order to verify that you're not a creeper, sexual predator or LE. Why they think LEO couldn't fake some info, I don't know.

It's been close to 50 years since I last visited a massage parlor but I didn't see any Asians. Took me 3 tries before I found one where extras were available and that was for BBBJs. They got raided after my second visit and shut down. That was in Santa Ana CA.

I cannot ad much more than the info provided by @GMD above. There are options for non-Asian MPs but you have to look. The legit spas are typically not open until 10 at night or later and do not have neon signs in the window.

You just have to do your homework. I have found few non-Asian MPs in my region but those that are found here are often full of Latinas.

But by far the best and most entertaining source of great info I've found was a blog written by a MP girl calling herself CJ. Look up "Happyendingz" and read through her blog. She has some great stories and info for the MP newbie.

I've had some very good massages at these places. Asian girls often give very good massages and are seemingly well trained on massage techniques. I've also had less than stellar service and no HE. I've only fucked one MP girl in the parlour but have had multiple offers from others. Like SCs, MPs offer a multitude of options - have fun searching for those that offer what you are looking for.

I don't do massage parlors, but I do love FBSM. FBSM, at least in this area, tends to be mostly white girls, mostly independent or in female-led groups. In contrast to AMPs, FBSM girls work out of apartments in a regular apartment building, rather than having storefronts, and at any one time, there's only one or at most two girls (depending on how many bedrooms and bathrooms the apartment has) in the apartment. Another difference: my impression is that around here, AMPs are mostly about the inexpensive sex -- awesome, dirty, nasty sex for relatively cheap. FBSM is about a great massage with a happy ending, and since most of the girls ONLY supply a massage and a happy ending, many have become incredibly good at delivering a super sensual experience within those limits.

The downside to FBSM is, it's relatively more expensive than AMPs. FBSM tends to cost $200-$220, and again, that's just for a happy ending. I haven't checked recently, but I believe AMPs still charge less than $200, and that's for everything up to full service

I do FBSM only, and think it's awesome

@Subraman: FBSM is probably the correct term for what the three LMTs with whom I'm familiar do here. All three give an excellent massage. Two of them will let you touch in return, though they won't take off their panties.

The third, the best of the lot, and the subject of my articles, would get completely naked, rub herself all over you, let your hands go wherever you want, and end up with a handjob that rivals many blowjobs, and even some sex, with regard to sensuality and satisfaction. Absolutely some of the most erotic experiences I've ever had. Bar none.

GMD: I'm lucky in that this area has easily the best FBSM in the country, by all reports -- and one of the only areas that actually calls it full body sensual massage instead of "bodyrubs", and that really does reflect the great effort they bring to it, IMO. The limits are all over the map, from girls who won't take their panties off, all the way to girls who'll do most anything. Although $220 is crazy expensive for "just" a HJ, the FBSM girls here have been competing to expand their client bases, and add in everything from showering with you before or after, "bodyslides", light domination & fetish, "plus" services that can get you BJ & FS at an up-charge, and just raising the good ol' HJ to high art. As you said, pick the right girl and it can be an unbelievably erotic experience.

I've mentioned a couple of times that I haven't had an ATF for quite a while, because I've been "OTCing" (to the extent that term applies) with an FBSM girl, who has out-ATFed every stripper ATF I've ever had, and the experience has been un-fucking-believable.

FBSM sounds like what I wound like, if anything, in the massage world. Sounds much better than an AMP. How do you go about finding a good provider?

@JS69,

Your best best is to read review sites in the area(s) in which you'll be shopping. Multiple sites if available. And be prepared to be disappointed a few times, as others' experiences don't match yours.

Geroge summed it up pretty well, in various larger citites around the country you can find a discreet white girls massage parlor where you may get a happy ending but the quality of the girls are relatively low. You can also find independents that are basically escorts but youre getting a massage and happy ending instead of sex.

Now to fulfill your fantasy I recommend 2 options:

1. some spas offer a couples massage where before the massage you get a prive bath or steam room which is usually just a fancy room to habe sex in. In Vegas I go to the Southpoint Casino spa where you get 30 minites or so in a steam bath where you body paint your partner with special mud baths then get a 60 minite couples massage. This runs around $350 and I love it. Ive taken 2 strippers there (seperately) and mrs shailynn.

2. travel to toronto and hit their spas. playboy type quality girls that will give you happy endings. no sex I repeat no sex, you may get lucky and get a bj and several will allow kissing and daty. There are also spas in montreal which do offer full service but they are very discreet and dont shoe their models on their webpages. I hobbied here before I discovered Detroit.

flirtspa.ca steelesroyal.ca merb.ca or merb.cc - montreal message board

To

I exactly echo GMD. Find review sites, or multiple review sites, that cover your areas, and keep in mind the downsides of not being in a strip club: you won't see her face until she opens the door, you won't know if you have any chemistry until you're already there and naked, you can't take her for a $20 test drive.

shailynn---> "but the quality of the girls are relatively low"

Definitely lower in general than the hottest strippers, but I definitely think that IN GENERAL, for my taste, hot girls in a high-end strip club are pretty much the hottest girls in the sex industry, period (although I imagine super high end escorts are also that hot or hotter, who knows, I don't have the $ to test it out). You'll see lots of AMP, bodyrub, and escort ads with pictures that make the girls look as hot as the hottest strippers, but when they open the door, they usually won't be.

With FBSM, I find that I can usually find hot-enough girls, even if they're not hottest-stripper-in-the-club hot (although I just discovered a new FBSM girl who is definitely top-shelf stripper hot), and the level of sensuality they bring can make it an awesome experience. I tend to like the girls to build the sensuality to a happy ending that still leaves us 15 minutes, and then just enjoy the last 15 minutes of pure massage post-happy-ending.

^^^ youre right about the hot scale. the one place that breaks this rule with attendants as hot or even hotter than your typical higher end strip club is toronto and montreal.

In the past I habe found good quality and service in Dallas, PHX, and Austin TX but I think all of those places have gone out of business over the years.

GMD hit pretty well. There are several places that review "Parlors" and the ones that have decent info are pay sites. "Rub Maps" is one. The big problem I have with the Asian place is many are slave operations. From what I read those are the ones LE is most interested in and rightly so.

yeah and you dont want to hear "HURRY UP AN FINISH YOU TAKE TO LONG, MY BACK HURT"

TT: that's the problem I have with AMPs also. There's lots of contrary information -- obviously, AMP fans (like SJG) claim that the women aren't trafficked, but I'm just not entirely sure... the media sure claims the women are trafficked, but now you have info from two groups with completely different agendas: the media, which regularly sensationalizes anything to do with the sex industry to the point that it's hard to believe anything written there, against the AMP clients, who definitely want to believe their area of the sex industry is clean (no wants wants to believe they're exploiting trafficked women). I dunno.

TER is another site that covers, if not the AMPs themselves, then the girls. I'm not a big fan of TER for a number of reasons, but they do have the most reviews IME

Jabberwock: Full Body Sensual Massage

In Southern California, there are some FS Latina MPs, with a good number located in the Inland Empire (Upland and San Bernardino, etc).

Easy for me to pass up an Asian MP, but a Latina one.... mmmmmmm, love me some latinas

1. People talk about AMPs for different reasons. Some people just want a massage, and so they get that. Others want happy ending, and so they get that. Others like me want an economy but quality whore house, and so we get that. Back 30 years ago I read in Hustler Magazine that considering escorts and street, AMPs are probably the best value for prostitution. So some years later I tried it and found out that this was most definitely true.

Yes there are some White girl MP's. Some are strictly legit. Others are set up like an escort service. They don't publish the address in the ads and so you have to first make an appointment, and it is probably in a fancy gated apartment building, more like an AAMP. In other cases there have been White girls who work right along side the Asian girls and do what they do and for the same money and love it. One such girl worked in such a place in Sunnyvale. Stripper shoes and makeup, young and good looking, and loving her work.

1. At any I've ever been to they do give you a real massage and they are good at it and they work hard. It only turns into something else if you make it so. If you never say anything they girl might try to promote happy ending by saying, "You tip me good? How much you tip me?" If you really never tip her anything she won't be pleased. And she really is fully willing to administer HJ. So usually this is how it goes. Shops and girls which don't do this on a regular basis are rare.

There is now one sort of exception. Because in Calif we have massage licensing laws, each girl has to have a license, and this hamstrings the industry, there are some "relaxation" shops. And this is why on RedBook the girls were called RA's, Relaxation Assistants. In a relaxation shop they put hot towels on you. They can't call what they do massage. If you call it massage they will correct you. Some of those shops do better GFE because a higher percentage of the sessions are FS, and because the girls have less pretense about it and they are really clear about what they are there for. There is here a circuit which exchanges girls between SJ and LA. Lots of the young girls don't want to work locally as someone might recognize them. So these sorts of shops are definitely whore houses. And I'm sure that some are going to try and call this sex trafficking.

1. As far as I am concerned it is safe. That you would be there when a bust occurs is probably less likely than getting hit by a car crossing the street. I have never heard of them busting customers. And besides, having sex with a girl is not illegal. To prove it illegal they would need to have access to private communications, and they do not. You think no one has ever fucked a diner waitress? Impala told us about fucking a hotel desk clerk.

2. As I interpret, Happy Ending, means HJ. But tittie play is usually allowed. Sometimes FOV/FIV, and sometimes kissing too.

I think if you wanted BJ they would charge more. Some won't do BBBJ. This is good thing to use RubMaps Advanced Search on, to find the more extreme shops.

They will always want more for FS, and this is the only thing I go there for.

If you know them they will be more right out in the open with you. In some places they have to be discrete and so lots of people really don't know that they do more than massage. In other places the way the girls approach you leaves no doubt what is being offered. In these places it is easiest to turn it into a GFE session, as the girls are used to it, and their own come on gets them in the mood. There are also areas where they get little trouble from LE, and so they are actually competing with each other in their GFE-FS offering. So of course these are the VERY BEST!

For myself I never try to negotiate or talk the girl into anything. I treat her like I just met her at a party and just let it happen with her. She will indicate when she wants money.

1. Usually it is $60 for the hour, and then the money to the girl could be from $100 to $160 for everything. Today I would say that $100 is rare, most of the time they want $120 as the friend price. Sometimes they will try for $200, and if you give them more than $160, they will show their appreciation.

They don't want to negotiate or talk before you have paid the house fee. So paying that and then finding that it is not going to go the way you want, or that the girl has her head up her ass, or Aunt Flo is visiting, is not uncommon. It is a risk.

They try to minimize all talk before you pay the house fee. It is safer for them, because they could be dealing with a window shopper, or a self appointed morality enforcer. Once you have paid the house fee though, she will take you into the room with her and you are free to play it however you want. But the house fee is not refundable.

I NEVER talk to them about anything like money for sex. I treat all women like civilians in all situations. I just make it happen with her. That way she has clearly not broken any law, and I haven't either. Usually after she has been kissed and felt up some, clearly seeing what is intended, she will make sure the money is handled. But not always, sometimes she just goes with it, as that makes it more like a first date, or a Girl Friend Audition.

In reading RubMaps I can see that most guys do not do it this way. The girl always tells you to lie face down. Then there will be the 'flip'. That is usually when the negotiations start.

Using the face down time to talk with the girl some is good. It helps let her relax.

But I always try to use front room flirting too, seeing how she responds, before committing and paying. Often I make it like I was just there to get the house price quote, and then I get the girl's name.

But today because they don't want online reviews, they usually give a cover name, not their usual working name. But anyway, when I come back she will feel that I am coming back just on account of her. She won't be too interested in doing any massaging then.

How you dress makes a big difference. In Asian culture, suit and tie is everything.

A year ago when I first mentioned AMPs, Lopaw said that the problem is that the intimacy level is not high enough. I agree with her completely. With the basic service it is not enough. It is not like a GFE Escort session or an AAMP session. So if you want GFE, then the game is figuring how to spin it that way. It doesn't always happen, but when it does, it is phenomenal.

There was a Vietnamese lingerie modeling place in San Jose. It did not last long, but it was an awesome experience. Getting the girl to go the distance in dressing for it, just changes it. Shailynn talked about giving gifts. I've given out countless pairs of thigh high stockings to AMP girls. But, I would not do it if I just walked in and selected her. It has to be when she is seeing that I am coming back just on account of her.

You said your girl was a '2'. Well, the minimum standard for looks and dolling up in AMPs is very low. So you have to find a girl you like. I never session until I am face to face with one I really want. Say 1/3 of them are very fuckable and I really like. Maybe 1/4 could work in a strip club.

Usually if the AMP has a high percentage of hot looking young ones dressed slutty, then that means that that shop does a much higher percentage of FS, and so it will be easier to turn it into GFE.

1. Most white girls seem to go for escorting, strip clubs, or street. So there are some white girl MP's which are strictly legit. Beyond that, a white girl MP is probably an escort service and so you have to book an appointment before you get the address.

As far as an AMP which does not do Happy Ending and LE being able to tell the difference, that is extremely rare. Happy Ending is almost universal. And then if you treat the girl nicely and clearly want to fuck her, 80% she will comply. Police and everybody know about the happy endings, but about the other they do not necessarily know. In some places they have to be discrete, and so it is only known by those who are good with the girls and make it go that way. Even at the most extreme shops on rubmaps, only about 1/3 of the reviewed sessions are FS.

LE seems to go after the places which are more conspicuous, and this means demeanor and manner of dress in the front room, plus the number and age of the girls. But this directly correlates to how GFE it will likely be too.

It is hard for cops to bust places without themselves becoming complicit. And the girls understand this well. This is why it is better to just make it happen with them, instead of talking about it. Sure I talk about all sorts of things with them. But I don't ever try to get them to agree to sex acts. I treat them like civilians.

There are large shops in San Francisco which rotate in Korean girls, and then there is a system for getting Chinese and Korean's into the country for AAMPs. Remember, the legal definition of 'trafficking" does not require force, fraud, coercion, or juveniles. So "trafficking" is often completely consensual. So if someone is telling you that there is wrong going on, but they are not partaking, do not listen to them because there is no way that they could know that.

If after some extensive partaking, like home toda la noche's, someone says that a particular girl was a trafficking victim, okay I'll believe it, as he really knows her. But just to look at them or listen to their limited English in the front lobby, you cannot say that they are victims of anything. I feel that the trafficking allegation is either just unfamiliarity, or straight up racism.

As far as Asian girls themselves, you just have to get to know them, and the Asian men too, and form your own impressions. Some of us have lived and gone to school and worked in places where this just comes naturally.

Another great thread JS69, bringing various issues right out into the open. Also, people live in different sorts of places and also they look for different things.

SJG democracynow.org

Amnesty International Votes to Support Decriminalization of Sex Work democracynow.org

Azteca youtube.com

Good info from everyone thanks. I'm going to think about it. Sounds like a big learning curve to get into this. And I've got such a good thing going in strip clubs I'm not sure it's worth the effort. But I sure did like that massage.

The massages are usually great. But how do you feel about the Asian girls? The time to get into it is when you are face to face with one that you really can't refuse, and not before that.

SJG

^^^ "Back 30 years ago I read in Hustler Magazine......"

Thanks for the laugh

Just go to rubmaps.com. youll be able to find what each city offers and reviews of girls.

I will add that there is a big difference between KAMP (Korean) and CAMP (Chinese) parlors. The KAMP locations tend to be pay-to-play FS environments where most everything is in the table. Expect to play $60 house fee + $100-$150 for the rest. KAMP locations are higher risk with a more likelihood of average massage while trying to hurry you out the door. CAMP, IMO, offer the best massages with with an opportunity for HE. You will need to do some research and invest some time, but I tend to think it is worth it.

@JS69: It's not so much a learning curve as just willing to make the time investment to find a good one.

If you find yourself in Louisville sometime, I'll point out the best current one. The one from my story longer works, but there's another who comes close.

I'm agreeing largely with GMD, too, though with the caveat that it's going to vary greatly from provider to provider, from region to region. One AMP I used to visit offered some really good, really solid massages, along with FS. The women I met ranged from probably 5-8. Have to say, one woman, probably a 7.5, caught me seriously off-guard during the pre-massage table shower when she started giving me a rimjob. Yeah, I wasn't ready for that and asked her to stop.

As for your questions:

1. I think AMP is pretty much the default in our country. We think of massages, we tend to think of Asian women largely due to media stereotyping. But, yeah, assortments of ladies can be found at assortments of MPs.

2. It's going to depend on a lot of things, much like with strip joints and strippers. Some actually are massage therapists and they won't offer you anything more (other than maybe a bottle of water). Some working in studios will tend to be more cautious, especially if you're brand new. They'll be using their LE radar on you to gauge the possibility. And they'll probably want to test you, often either by grazing your junk or (less likely) letting you cop a feel. If she comes out and asks you if you're a cop, chances are she's either brand new or incredibly lucky and naïve because cops can lie when it comes to this question. They're just not allowed to touch or be touch in the privates (though that might depend on the locale, too).

Therapists who operate out of their apartments and homes, I'd probably do some extra research on. Stings are just far too likely. Course, you have to watch out for some of the hotels, too, because the police can and will set up stings in them. If you do find yourself in a private setting (rather than a studio), try to do your own LE tests before towels start disappearing.

1. It's really about as safe as ITC in the VIP -- it's going to vary greatly, depending on the city, the politicians, the churches, and, very much, the political season. Now that we're heading into the 2016 elections, you can pretty much plan on even more raids on massage parlors, deserved or not.

2. Happy endings will depend on the provider and probably the surroundings, as well as how comfortable and how familiar the therapist is with you. HE can range from handjobs to FS, but they're also very much YMMV. One therapist I met was reputed to only give HJs and BJs, at least to first-time clients, but for some reason, she gave me FS -- and didn't ask for any extra money -- which was okay because not only did she give a poor massage (despite what others had said), she also sat on my head, which really didn't help the neck any.

3. Cost is going to vary greatly again. Massage therapists tend to start at $60/hour, body rubs at probably $150/hour. And typically, the subject of happy endings doesn't come up until late in the session, so you can negotiate then. Personally, I'd consider the market average for the area for one hour with an escort as the baseline to work from, factoring in the quality of the massage. I'd just ignore the little guy though; you know he's going to drain your wallet before the therapist will ; )

4. Like the others have said, do your research. I'm not a big fan of Rubmap.com (there seem to be more trolls looking for free membership on that than here on TUSCL), but I've had a lot of good luck with eroticmp.com. Eroticmp.com has forums much like these, and much like these forums, you really have to get a feel for who knows what he's talking about and who's just full of shit. Just to be safe (or safer), I'd double-check some of their info with what you might find on TER (but you have to be a paid member to access the information on massage girls there).

Sorry if this comes off as flip, but like with mongering, you really need to go out and experience some of these places first-hand in order to start to build up your radar for MP extras. What we write here and on other sites is a good start, but you really won't know until you walk through those doors.

And, yes, LE can find these places, too. Even though all reviews are supposed to be considered works of fiction, too many stories set in the same place can and will ping on LE's radar. It's why one of the most popular, most reliable FS AMPs in the Twin Cities got shut down -- too many morons bragging about what they did there. That's why the forums are important; you get a chance to virtually meet a lot of these enthusiasts and start back-channeling information.

Hope this helps. If you have any more specific questions, feel free to PM me.

On the other hand, I once visited a place that was reputed to offer extras and even gave off the extras vibe, but the attendant gave me a pretty pathetic massage. Nuts, I went in the for just a relaxing massage (and the possibility of more); instead, she did some Thai stretching techniques on me and, several years later, one of my hips still acts up. John, whatever you do, whatever you're looking for, do your best to make sure the "therapist" actually knows what she's doing and if she starts doing something that sets your alarms off, make sure she stops.

Okay, that last paragraph was supposed to be the last paragraph of answer 2. Weird.

What area (s) are you looking at, JS?

^^^ "Back 30 years ago I read in Hustler Magazine......"

This was before I had any P4P experience, or had even been to a single Go Go Bar, like what we have here. I had both curiosity and reservations about the entire enterprise.

About Koreans, they run a nation wide system of shops known as 10-day houses. The girls only stay 10 days, then off to a different cities. They do 2x 10 day stints per lunar cycle.

You just call the ad and then walk in. It will be a town house set up.

You will be presented with the available girls serially. The price is right and the girls are young and very good looking.

But, it is non-gfe and these are the types of places where they make it happen and then hurry you out the door. The girl will just get you on your back and climb on and do it.

So no reason to book more than 1/2 hour. Usually $120 1/2 hour and $160 1 hour.

Sometimes they will even refuse 1 hour bookings during the lunch time rush.

Anyway, for what they do they are good at it. But, there are nasty elements to the syndicate which runs this system, so I would avoid it. Also, as the girls are only there for 10 days, it would be very hard to ever see one of them OTC. So I suggest avoiding this network of shops. One characteristic is that they don't require appointments.

Now, about Korean AMPs, my own experience is that they are fine. Wonderful mind blowing GFE sessions with Korean girls. And of course after that what they want is outside contact.

Koreans, and most Asians, in my experience, are prejudiced about race and social class. So you have to understand this before you walk in.

It appears to me that LE has giving up on enforcing against HJ shops, be they AMPs or SCs. So you have SF Crazy Horse, widely known as a "Jack Shack" and clearly set up for that, and no one does anything. Likewise, all these cities have Happy Ending AMPs. They do nothing. It is only when it becomes FS, and offered competitively and conspicuously, that they do anything. This seems to apply to both AMPs and SCs.

Tell me what city and I'll help you evaluate it with RubMaps. Can look by city, at an entire state, or by radius up to 50 miles and crossing state lines.

But what you need is to find an AMP girl you really like. That is the key to making sense of it. Find a girl who looks so good to you that you would want to be seeing her outside. To do this you just have to do some window shopping. Some cities will be much better than others. Usually the more AMPs, the more competitive it is.

SJG sites.google.com

X Los Angeles youtube.com