Unaccompanied Females (Part Deux)

We have all been ignored from time to time. It's part of the game. You can't force the dancers to dance for everyone. In a case like that they should have been more proactive and approached the dancers themselves. The fact that they were a couple probably didn't help either...right, seaboardrr? ;)

"Disgusting old men"? I resemble that remark but it is us old guys that keep the clubs going.

^ I agree - but I would imagine is a little harder/more-uncomfortable for female custies to do the approaching in a strip club - but that's just me speculating - we probably still have more a ways to go b/f everyone is treated equally in all circumstances/environments

“... I was there with my date (we are both lesbians) and I was very confused because only two of your girls came up to us the entire night while the other girls looked on as if we had two heads ...”

That's not that uncommon in a strip club since almost all custies do have two heads.

"disgusting old men" -- wow, how judgmental is she? Maybe the dancers picked up on her nasty, judgmental attitude and didn't want to go near her or her girlfriend. Maybe the dancers found something disgusting about her and her date (and I don't mean the lesbian part).

I bitch about being ignored in a club, but I know enough not to be surprised if it's my first time there. Dancers, like most people who have something to sell, prefer to deal with "known" customers. If you seem out of place, I can understand them preferring to go to customers they do know or the "disgusting old men" they're familiar with.

Also, did they take into account that the dancers may have been suspicious of them for other reasons? They could have been friends to a woman who was pissed off her husband/boyfriend was at the club and was looking to start problems. They could be friends with a woman whose girlfriend worked at the club. When you look out of place (and this has nothing to do with being gay), people are going to be suspicious.

I'll throw in some more possibilities. I know dancers who hate dancing for lesbians because they've found too many of them are willing to grope their tits and crotch on the club floor! (Apparently they feel that, because they are women, the bouncers are less likely to throw them out.) Also, how much do lesbian customers "typically" spend in clubs? Are they likely to ask for a VIP? How much money would this club lose if no one from the LGBT community ever stopped there again?

At the very least, they received an apology. Any of you guys ever received an apology after you were ignored at a club? I never did.

Some of the black dives I go to down here in Miami get a fair # of female custies – I imagine some are lesbians and some seem straight and seem to want to use the SC as a nightclub b/c all they do is put their hands up in the air to the music and dance to the music as if they were in a disco – i.e. they go to party but I rarely see them spend any $$$ on the dancers and they take up about 1/2 the seats in the club since these dives are small w/ not many seats – so spending custies like me can't get a seat to get a dance (dances are on the floor) b/c the fem party custies take them up.

I'm not saying all female custies are this way – just IME in the dives I visit.

It might not be fair, but dancers are independent contractors and are under no obligation to approach a customer if they don't feel like it.

"Your girls dance on a pole for disgusting old men all day."

I was sympathetic until she made that statement. We disgusting old men rule in strip clubs.

The “independent contractor” thing seems a bit tricky to me and I wonder where the line is drawn.

I certainly understand a dancer pays to work at the club; but thus this dissolve her from any rules of the club?

The club has an interest in that their customers are treated well so the customers want to come back – is having dancers sitting by themselves smoking and talking w/ each other or with their noses buried in their cell phones good/proper customer treatment? – should dancers be allowed such behavior b/c they are “independent contractors” since this type of behavior affects the club's business.

Not saying that I know the right answer; just what goes thru my mind (and also not saying this is the case in all clubs).

I had to laugh, Papi, because guess where I was when I read this thread? Yup - in a stripclub! But unlike my poor lesbian sisters, I was getting lots of attention :)

While I can certainly sympathize with their plight, like sclvr5005 said we all have felt the sting of being ignored at some time or other. And while it is nice to have the dancers approach you, sometimes you just gotta get up off your ass and approach them. I have often found that my first time visit to a club is more of a scouting mission - for both me & the dancers. Sometimes I get dances, sometimes not. On subsequent visits I will often be approached by dancers who saw me on my first visit, but were too intimidated to ask me for a dance. Once I buy a few dances with them, word gets around quickly. It's amazing how word about your spending habits gets circulated in the DR and suddenly you are the life of the party.

These 2 gals being a "couple" definitely didn't help things much. As a lone female I get way more attention than I ever would if I was part of a couple, either a female/female or male/female one. That's just the way it is. At least a couple of dancers approached them. I hope for their sake they were spending some cash and at least tipping the stage. If they sat there like bumps on a log all pissed off and not tipping it would have just exacerbated the problem. My advice to them would be to go back again, and talk to the 2 dancers that did approach them and buy some dances from them. Ask those 2 dancers if they know of any others who might be interested in dancing for them. Be proactive!!!

Unfortunately papi because clubs don't want to spend the money to put us on payroll, we can do those things you mentioned. The club can terminate the independent contractor at any time however.

Those lesbians can be a pain ... but if one of them is girlfriend of one of the strippers it can be hot. One night, super hot lesbian came in to make sure her girfriend was 'in line', and when the stripper was off stage the two of them were making out in secluded corner until the bouncers broke that up.

Aside: Papi, are you turning into a fucking frog? Shouldn't Part Deux have been Part Dos?

"It might not be fair, but dancers are independent contractors and are under no obligation to approach a customer if they don't feel like it"

Just to play devil's advocate, isn't that quite an ironic statement given the lengthy discussion we had yesterday about whether night clubs are "public accommodations" and whether the 1964 Civil Acts makes it illegal to deny entry.

So just when sclvr5005 just had me convinced that it is illegal to deny entry to anyone a dancer basically says its a moot point because she can still refuse service once that individual is in the club

Hmmm....now I'm more fucking confused than ever.

On the other hand, if dancers do discriminate, they practice equal opportunity discrimination.

I've seen/heard of dancers that won't dance with old guys, young guys, fat guys, white guys, black guys, Middle Eastern guys, Hispanics, women, broke guys.

I guess the only ones they don't discrimate against are guys that spend lots of money! :)

I don't know what's confusing you, motorhead. If you walk into a car dealership, not every salesperson will approach you. They don't have to if they don't want to. They'll likely get some shit from their manager if they don't approach at least some people....but if they want to sit at their desk all day and stay off of the showroom floor it isn't breaking any law. And while not every salesperson will approach you, you must be permitted to enter that dealership under ordinary circumstances. Same principle in a stripclub.....or any sales job for that matter.

And like you mentioned - for every type of person out there, there are dancers that won't dance for them. I stopped caring why a long time ago.

Capeesh now?

If we don't want sex work to be as evil as the haters want to claim it is, then the sex worker has to have the unquestioned, no explanation required right to reject any customer. If a dancer is a bigot even though it costs her money, there's no way of forcing her to give a good dance to a target of her bigotry anyway. But obviously, a club may well decide that a dancer who's always sitting on her ass because no custy is good enough for her is a waste of the floor space.

The stereotype that many dancers have of lesbian customers is that they think that the dancer will feel some big girl-girl bond with them and give them all sorts of special treatment. Maybe this chick fits the stereotype, since she feels she's somehow automatically a better customer than old disgusting men.

@ilbbaicnl - remove "lesbian" and "girl-girl" in your last paragraph and you've described just about every customer, male or female, in the club.

I got a woman wanna ball all day yah yeah.

This has been an interesting, informative discussion. I really think ibbaicnl and lopaw hit the nail on the head. This customer went into the club with the same attitude as many of us--that we deserve special treatment because of who we are. We're better tippers; more respectful, cleaner, smarter, etc. Or, we know the "game" better than other customers; we know the best way to fulfill our needs and pay the dancer that benefits us both best. Even subconsciously, I believe that's what's going on inside us. In a way, it makes sense. We're at the club to spend money and expect the best customer service.

When we don't get it, we ask why. Sometimes it's because the dancers are more focused on other customers, or some of them are suspicious of us because they don't know us, or they're just lazy.

Whatever. The reviewer blames her experience on being a lesbian. Hey, maybe that was one piece of the puzzle. At the end of the day, the dancers can dance for whomever they want. I've come to the conclusion the reviewer made no efforts to get attention--she didn't tip on stage, didn't go ask for a dance, etc. She certainly made no mention of it. It sounds to me that the club was fine and she was just a piss-poor customer.

Anyhow, I'm going to jump back on the "disgusting old men" comment. What an asshole comment. That's like going into a country western bar then complaining about all the "#@$@%$ shitkickers and cowboys"; or walking into a hip hop club and complaining about all the "n***ers"; or slipping into a latino club and bitching about all the "wetbacks." What the fuck did she expect to find and why denigrate everyone else? If you go out into OUR clubs with that kind of attitude, maybe you shouldn't expect special treatment or any attention at all.

@lopaw Everyone wouldn't mind special special treatment, only a minority think their all that and expect it. I'm just telling you what I've been told, no lesbians ever wanted me to give them lap dances so I only have second hand reports. I think most dancers are like have money and don't be a pain,I don't give a shit how many penises you do or don't have.

Dancers also tend to think romantic couples are likely trouble. So if these two looked like they were knocking boots that may be the real reason they got bypassed.

@ilbbaicnl - totally agree about the couples thing (where's seaboardrr when you need him?). Couples definitely have it tougher than single people of either gender in getting attention. I have had many conversations with dancers about that, and many of them just don't want to risk any drama, so they avoid them. It's a shame that the good couples suffer because of it. This lesbian couple sounds like they also had that working against them. But it also sounds like they weren't proactive at all. We don't know if they are newbies or SC vets, tho I get the impression that they are not regulars.

@carlos- it seems like the "disgusting old men" comment was said out of anger, but it was definitely unnecessary and uncalled for. If they had that kind of attitude upon setting foot inside the club, then their ugly vibe was probably palpable and its no wonder that the dancers stayed away.

I was confused too Motörhead until lopaw broke it down for us:)))

My pleasure, Diva! It is kinda funny & ironic- by law you must be allowed to enter a business, but once you are in there all bets are off as to if anyone will give you the time of day!

Thanks lopaw. Using the car dealership analogy makes sense.

That reminds me of the story several years ago where an African American guy dressed in a hoodie and sweatpants went into a prominent BMW dealership in Indianapolis. Not only didn't a salesman approach him, he was asked to leave.

It turned out he was a Colts football player and that dealer just lost out on the sale of an expensive car!

Should be a word of caution to clubs that service to anyone.

@motor I think that dealership is on shaky legal ground. AA is a protected category, so they could be in hot water if it was shown they'd given better treatment to a similarly dressed white person.

The law does recognize that some paid services are much more personal than others. For example, if you are renting a room in your home (as opposed to a separate apartment) you have total discretion as to who you rent to. Fair housing rules don't apply. The same principle would logically apply to dancing. Of course, in most places in the US, queer is not yet a legally protected category.

The only thing I have to say on this is that if a hot unaccompanied female (civilian) is in the strip club, I'm gonna hit on her.

before lopaw hunts me down......lol

It seems like we've discussed this umpteen times. First off, my initial unsubstaniated thoughts about the angry inch worm lesbian review are that I get the feeling they started the night ok but before too long once they didn't have strippers fawning over them they started getting the "scowl face" going and getting more and more pissed off when no one approached. If you look pissed off a stripper ain't approaching you. Mrs sea tells me all the time I need to smile more. I am smiling but I can't help it I'm not going full retard smile. (maybe ¾ but not full retard)

Hetero or homo couple it makes no diff. First and foremost I don't think most strippers know how to interact with a couple and it all comes down to the woman. They simply don't know whether the female is going to go ape shit when they approach. I don't buy the argument about female customers thinking they get more leeway being a huge issue. They ABSOLUTELY get more leeway. Every single stripper we've gotten multiple dances from has given us what I've been told is very high mileage action and it's all because mrs sea has been there. Like I've said before right off the bat mrs sea asks what her boundaries are and that makes them ask us what OUR boundaries are. Mrs sea tells them all we have no boundaries and everything is fair game with either of us. Once they hear this it's been game on.

NOW..........getting past the initial "first contact" where we actually get a little conversation going that leads to LD's is the huge hurdle you have to get over but once that happens the initial stripper's fear is gone. A while back we spent some time chatting with a dancer during a stupid UFC break. A few weeks ago not 30 seconds after we walked in the club this same stripper practically ran across the stage ignoring everyone else and dove into mrs sea's tits. Then she gave me a hug and motor boated me. She already knew mrs sea wasn't going to bitch slap her or go ballistic so she wasn't worried anymore.

It's no different than breaking the ice in the civvie world. Once you get past the initial possibility of rejection you know you can approach someone in the future and get a positive response.

Single guys in the SC are easy to deal with. You walk up, say hi and see if they are positive in their response to you. If they aren't you just move to the next guy. A guy isn't going to bitch slap a stripper or go insane just by her walking up. They are there to have naked women approach them. But a stripper is not obligated to approach every guy. They can pick and choose which guys they want to talk to.

I do have to say I think lesbian couples in a SC have it worse than hetero couples. The ones we've seen are either non-tippers just taking up a chair or they're insane. The insane ones are constantly standing up by the stage making it rain, making a scene, throwing their hands up in the air dancing, getting up and laying on the stage and just constantly taking up the full attention of whoever is on stage. This basically makes everyone else sitting around the stage wanting to tip become spectators who aren't getting any attention. If we see this then the strippers who see this go on on a regular basis must think this every time a lesbian couple walks in. A hetero couple makes a stripper uncertain what to do. A lesbian couple walks in and I feel they just say "oh no, what kind of lesbian couple are they going to be?"

You can't legally keep women out of a SC but that doesn't mean a stripper has to pay them any attention.

Diva, PD and the rest; would y'all like to elaborate and give your thoughts on couples?

My ATF leans more to women than men, but she doesn't like going after the lesbian P/L's. I never really asked her about that but I think I will!

“... Papi, are you turning into a fucking frog? ...”

Of course not – but I have been told by many a female that I kinda look like a frog.

I don't know if it will apply, rockstar666, but I was talking to a lesbian dancer a while back (she told me that she was gay and I had no reason to question her). She told me that out of respect for her partner she would not dance for any women. She was pretty good looking and I recall that her dances were also pretty good.

“... disgusting old men ...”

Yeah – I take exception to that – I'm not that old

“... This customer went into the club with the same attitude as many of us--that we deserve special treatment because of who we are ...”

For those of us that complain about dancer-treatment/customer-service – it's not that we expect to get everything we want whenever we want – IMO a certain level of customer service; which seems evident and to be the norm in the better more upscale clubs; is not too much to ask for.

If I go to a restaurant – it's ok to have to wait a bit to be waited on if the waiters/waitresses are busy w/ other tables – but is it ok to not get waited on b/c the waiters/waitresses are over in the corner chatting it up and using their phones – it is not too much to expect to be waited on at a restaurant even if it's not an upscale restaurant.

And yes – I know – dancers are INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS and thus can do as they please – but the question is should they and should they be allowed to not provide basic customer service – perhaps yes (i.e. they don't have to provide shit) - but in the better clubs this does not seem to be the case/allowed for the most part.

“... Once I buy a few dances with them, word gets around quickly ...”

This sorta happens to me at times when I go into a black dive where I don't visit often or have never visited – sometimes the dancers are hesitant to approach me – IDK if they think I'm LE; or that me as a clean-cut whiteguy may not be into black dive dancers which are often thick (since it appears many whiteguys that go for black dancers go for the Caucasian looking black dancers; i.e. thin figure; thin lips; light-skinned; etc) – but once one brave dancer approaches me and the other dancers see me getting my chocolate freak on; then it starts poring chocolate on Papi Chulo.

Now a days when I go into a black dive where “I have a reputation”; I often have to beat them off of me w/ a stick (although I usually cave in and let them grind all over me).

It looks like the lesbians in question were not experienced SC goers.