Hypothetical Question #2014

What is the endgame, Slick? How long does she plan to keep dancing? What's her exit strategy? If she's saving up for nursing school or investing in real estate, she may be a keeper!

I met her last week. I'll let you know how it goes; so far I'm actually okay with just the FWB (not for money) because I assume she's a flake like everyone else, but so far I have no evidence of it.

Hey, Slick did you watch Entourage? Remember when Vinny Chase was dating porn star Sasha Gray? Everything was good, she was cool and funny, and of course the sex was incredible. Then Vinny blows everything up when he goes to the set of her latest porn shoot and freaks out that she's having sex with other guys (duh!). Sasha tells him she's just doing her job, that it doesn't mean anything, but he can't handle it and breaks up with her. Sasha freakin' Gray!? Idiot.

Can she be Asian?

Hai!

She would have to know how to spell 'Bordeaux' properly before I would give her a sniff.

@Clubber: My new girl is Asian, of course! Kind of a hippie chick too. I like that combination.

@Art-I blame the iPhone. It's racist.

Can she bake an apple pie?

Of course she can. Her stripper name is Marie Calenders.

And does she know how to do a screenshot?

Plus a money shot. And a bank shot.

And most important, will she laugh at my jokes?

She'll laugh till she squirts. Oh, did I forget? She's a squirter.

It would make for some interesting dinner conversation. "Hey honey, how many guys did you get off today? Give me a kiss".

No chance for anything serious.

rock,

Go F%^K yourself! :)

Is she bringing in enough of a bank roll I don't have to work?? Yes I would become the stereotypical Stripper BF... excluding the drugs.... HAHA.

But if the bank roll is large and she is safe with the extra's (condom...even for BJ)... I would be down with this woman they way you described her.

Unless I saw her as a girl I'd like to be waking up with in the mornings, I wouldn't be engaging with her in the first place. I certainly would not be handing her money and I wouldn't be touching her. Say a girl signs on to work in an AMP. She finds out that everyone expects HJ "Happy Ending". Is she wrong if she starts giving it to them? Is it wrong if she takes the next step and starts encouraging that by suggesting that they should give her a nice tip and that she will do that?

Then suppose guys start asking her for FS. Is she wrong if she starts to comply? In South Bay only a few shops openly offer that. But in S.F. many more of them are really open about that. If she goes to one of these more straight up places and starts openly offering FS, because it gets her more money, and because she sees that guys like that and it keeps 'em coming back, is she wrong?

And in an SC, when guys keep asking a girl to do OTC, if she finally agrees, is she wrong? And when some of the girls are doing FS in the VIP Room, and guys are asking her to do that, is she wrong if she finally goes along with them? Does that make her bad? Does that mean her flesh is corrupted? If you really think that, then why are you even touching her? What does that say about you?

Guys approach these girls in different ways. Sometimes the guys are nice about it. The girl can see that if she meet the guy any other place, she probably would be happy to go out with him, and she probably would end up in his bed. So initially she rejects pay for play offers. But eventually she comes to see that if she does that she spends her time talking to her cats and watching soap operas. So eventually she accepts. Does this make her wrong?

I've written about my time with the small Korean girl in a Sunnyvale AMP. I had just intended to cruise the place. But as I approached I saw her through the store front window, from behind, cutting hair. So I waited and watched until I got to see her face, and I then decided to proceed. None of the others I'd sessioned with were around. When I got her in the room, she did not want to be moved upon and cornered, and so I just sat in the chair. We talked, I mean I told her about myself and I asked about her. Finally she said, "Do you want a haircut?" I just looked at her and turned my head from side to side. Mostly it seemed like she was afraid of getting caught by the boss or LE. But it also seemed like she had just never come to consider that her job description could include FS. She probably did not know how much FS the others were doing, like with me.

So finally her shoulders dropped and what then ensued was really sweet.

If I was talking to her like a prostitute, then that would have given her justification to decline with moral indignity. But I was not. I was intent on making it happen immediately and I was letting her feel my desire, but I was also being very nice to her and treating her exactly as I saw her, as an Ordinary Girl. It could have been a first date, or some sort of a civilian pickup. Was she wrong to give it up, and to do it so nicely? And was she wrong when once her shoulders did drop, she still remembered to be sure and get the customary fee?

After we were done she came over and gave me a big friendly hug in the lobby. She wasn't that far away from crying happy tears. Of course what she wanted was for me to walk her out the front door right then. At a minimum what she wanted was for me to let her know exactly when I was going to take her home with me. But she was smart enough to see that that was unlikely. But the fact is that unless I also wanted that I would have just left her to her hair cutting.

Another girl at the same place another day, Vietnamese, and again on my lunch hour. We got into the room and we handled the money and she was on top of me. This is how sex workers usually want to do it, unless it is understood to be a longer GFE session. I go along with it. I let them do it and I enjoy, but I also follow up with other positions. Usually they are not expecting this, and so most are pleasantly surprised. This girl seemed to have enjoyed it very much and be most eager to see me again soon. If we spent more time I know we could have gotten a lot more personal and probably have gotten into GFE. But on that day what she said was, "If you want to go for a long time, better not to do it during lunch time. During lunch time we try to do a as many as possible." I've run into this in other AMP and AAMPs since. Some will refuse 1 hour sessions and only take 1/2 hours during the lunch time. This would be in the places not advertised as GFE. I mean AMPs and the walk in AAMPs. At the RB-GFE AAMPs where you have to book an appointment to even get the address and where the 'service level" is higher and where 1 hour = 60min of GFE because of MSOG, then everyone books one hour and there is no faster service for the lunch hour.

Anyway, this girl who did me real nice at lunch time, but was clearly accustomed to doing high volume quickies at lunch time, was she wrong to be giving guys what they want, and also to be trying to make good money from it by doing high volume? She certainly seemed willing to give me a more relaxed session, just at another time of day. And I am sure she could do even better than that if I took her someplace else ( OTC ). Is there something about her which is tainted, and I am somehow exempt from that myself, going to such a place on my lunch hour and with such intent?

I've never accepted the basic standard which divides women into two categories. I don't go along with it. I also know that it is a double standard as it applies to women and not to men. And so I consider it unfair and I have always tried to dismantle it, and to dismantle it's manifestations in my own thinking.

So I walk into a store in San Jose and a girl at a bus stop sees me looking her over. When I come out she hands me a piece of paper from a small pad which she has just finished writing on and it says, "If you want to date Serenity" and then it has a phone number and a fee schedule which starts out with, "If you are quick" ( I never like to be quick as I want to watch the girl go into orbit. ) and then times going up to one hour. Is she wrong, and especially considering how I was looking her over?

I asked her for an email address and then found her myspace page. Like most of those at bus stops, she is from Alameda County, and she is black. On her profile she is explaining about how she just got out of their county jail.

People have talked about Asians and I have been talking about Asians. Is there something different about Asians? Or maybe it is just about anyone who is not white?

Here on Gawker's thread I talk about how white strippers are more likely to lead these shit head lives: Strippers and Domestic Violence tuscl.net

The groups that have been here the longest are whites and blacks. Both groups can be leading shit head lives. But Asians?

I know that the Asian girls who come here for 3 to 6 months for the AAMP's don't like to deal with Asian clients. They don't like to see them when they open the front door, because these guys will accurately perceive their age, where as whites and blacks won't. Whites and blacks will see them as exotic treasures and be nicer to them. The Asian men can see them as their own country's losers, and really look down on them, and the girls do not like this and they make this really clear.

I have written about some beloved Latina escorts and I hope to post more about this and to make some clarifications on what I have already said. I think the Latino culture is actually the most gentile about P4P. But I also know that what these girls orchestrated in the dark SC front room amounted to orgies. The guys had a very good time. Are these girls wrong, and are they wrong for each pocketing so much money?

It was long ago that I first asked a San Francisco AMP girl how many she does per day and how many she had done already. It was a lot more than I thought a woman could do. It was a lot more than civilian women would think a woman could do. If you try to tell them, and I have, they get grossed out.

I have since learned from close observation how many the girls in the AAMPs do, how many they seek to do, how many they can do easily, and how many it takes before their capabilities are diminished.

Do I really understand it? Not quite because I am not female. But I do know that MSOG gets really hard for them when they are PMS. I don't really know why, but I think it has something to do with water accumulation. But I don't really know what that this feels like for them.

But has it been hard for me to just accept the fact that if someone is having sex, and if it is a woman having sex with men has it been hard for me to think about all that this entails? Most definitely.

Here I talk about my first time. Compared to the college girls I was used to dealing with she was a breath of fresh air. It seemed like no big deal for her, and she was on The Pill. But this still freaked me out. She seemed really extreme to me, like some sort of a sex machine.

She told me, "I don't have sex with more than one guy at a time", and yes this proved to be true. But I was still uncomfortable with her, and with how clingy I saw that women become once you have fucked them. I had much to learn, and it has taken lots and lots of experiences to get used to the idea that women can have sex and that they can have sex with lots of guys. But as I want to be having sex myself, I learn to accept it.

Will a woman's sex worker life effect the kind of relationship we have? Most certainly. Like for one thing she is probably usually used to lots of un-taxed cash and being able to spend it anyway she wants. But also I know that having known lots of guys, it will just be different with her.

Mostly what I want is to build a different kind of a life, a counter cultural life, and I know that everybody having lots of sex partners is going to be a central component of this.

But I go back to where I started posting on TUSCL, I treat all women like civilians and I do this in all situations. This is why in AMPs I have been treated to lots and lots of girl friend auditions and wife auditions. They are really nice. My only regret is that I was not able to give them what they wished for. This is going to change. I will not only be giving them what they want, I will be giving them much more.

First Girl You Had Sex With tuscl.net

We talked about this before on Shadowcat's thread. Yes, I do like my eggs scrambled. How Do You Like Your Eggs tuscl.net

About this distinction between Courtesans and Prostitutes and all the stuff that divides women into two categories. Lena advances this and I oppose this, so she doesn't seem to want to talk to me. tuscl.net

strip-club-news.blogspot.com SJG

Deep Purple, full concert youtube.com

Here SJG, You should read this book, it really is awesome..."By Reason of Insanity" by Shane Stevens

fright.com

Just 3 simple requirements

1. She must like sports. She should be able to tell me who drained the last second jump shot in the 1987 NCAA basketball championship game.

2. She must know pop culture. She better know who Carr, the floorwalker, is, or she's gonna spend a night in the box.

3. She must be blonde.

@Moto-She's Rick Pitino's goddaughter, Bobby Knight's niece, and she use to babysit for Coach K. And she's blonde.

Mikeya02,

I can't read By Reason of Insanity quite today, but I do notice that the article mentions Thomas Harris. Harris does understand psychopaths. We know of him from Silence of the Lambs and from all the Hannibal Lecktor stories. But he also wrote something I like even better, Black Sunday. This would also be made into a movie.

I also find that Harris is promoting a right wing and pro-law enforcement world view. I believe that Jodi Foster wanted to do Silence of the Lambs because of the strong female character, and she also explained that it was because of the lack of any romance narrative.

But I also believe that after that she declined to be in further movies based on Harris's books because of his right wing world view. She would not want to be advancing this.

The film with Hannibal out and loose, in Italy, I found problematic because they were presenting him as some sort of a superman. Remember when he stabbed the junkie and pickpocket that the cop set up to get Hannibal's finger prints. As he died, the guy acted like he had just seen God. I found this to be a problem.

That weapon Hannibal was using came right out of Marathon Man, the movie with Dustin Hoffman and this dentist Zell, who was supposed to represent the Nazi Doctor Joseph Mengele.

One massage girl, Malaysian with huge tits, said to me, "I know it is hard for you because you have to really like the girl".

We had gotten along well and done our session and she was sitting and talking with me. Again, if I had not been married and cold have taken her home with me, or at least out somewhere, things could have been just wonderful. But what had transpired was only so so. For one thing, she had refused to kiss. If I had been able to manipulate the selection process a little bit more, this may have been different. In years since I have learned to set the sessions up better, and to make them go even better on all accounts.

But we were getting along fine. I had never thought about what she was saying. Of course yes I have to like the girl. Why would I want to pay money to a girl for such a session if I did not like her? Why would I want to have sex with her if I did not like her? Why would anyone session with a girl they don't especially "like"?

But she was wrong about that being difficult. No problem at all finding girls that I like, not in AMPs, not in SCs, and not in lots of other places as well.

So I ask as a follow on to SlickSpic's original hypothetical, how many people are handing money to and engaging in sex acts with girls that they don't really like, that they would not want to be waking up in the mornings with? Certainly not I.

Responding to Lena tuscl.net

sites.google.com SJG

"I beseech your Highness, do no marry me to a whore." Measure for Measure part1 youtube.com part 2 youtube.com

Also better than Hannibal Lector, is Michael Slade's "Ghoul". Highly violent and sometime graphically disgusting. Check it out

And if you want to read about "control", there is a chilling short story called "More Sinned Against", by Karl Edward Wagner

Women like it when a guy takes control of a situation and makes it happen with them. Asian women like this. White women like this. Black women like this. And Latino women like this. Most female flirting amounts to giving the guy opportunities to take the initiative, but while still leaving him thinking that it all came from him. Sometimes if you happen to be on the sidelines and see it being done to someone else, it is easier to recognize. It can be humorous to watch.

Now sure, in P4P situations the women learn that if they want to make money, they don't just sit pretty on bar stools, they act. But this does not mean that they don't still really get off on it when a guy takes the initiative. Women like guys who are not afraid of rejection. My best AMP sessions were initiated this way. Somehow I was able to short circuit the selection process and pick my girl in a way which gave the whole encounter a different meaning for her. She turned it into a girlfriend audition. And the times when strippers have really shed all their emotional armor and opened themselves up to me right away have been like this.

About legal restrictions, about kissing strippers, and about getting from where we are at right now, to escort grade GFE. tuscl.net

sites.google.com SJG

Pompeii, Lupanar, Den of the She-Wolves youtube.com en.wikipedia.org

For me it makes no difference if she is an extras gal. I have several girlfriends going now and I tell them up front if they want to screw around while I'm away that's fine. But when I'm in town they belong to me. It starts out as a P4P GFE but goes beyond that and soon I am not paying for the sex anymore because I'm helping them out and becoming a close friend instead of a fuck buddy. It's hard to explain but I have about four of these going now and am starting on #5. All hot all mid twenties. All very hot in bed. All very needy. To me psychologically it's all long term relationships. All in different cities so there is no jealously or cat fighting over which one I help more. They all have what they need. I make them all work. I just supplement their incomes so they can have nice things. I would be glad to explain in a PM how it works. It is expensive but we all have our expensive hobbies don't we ?

One thing I forgot to say I do some other things to gain favor with the girls which will eventually get my pick of the whole line up.

On Valentines Day I give each dancer a single rose when they stop by my table in the club.

In another club every time I stopped I brought a bag of Reese Cups and each girl got a Reese Cup. One club owner threatened to bar me from the club for making his girls fat LOL !

@jestrite50- i can see what you mean.i've met guys like that in various clubs who come with a bag of goodies for certain girls or just for everybody, also the guys who buy all the girls their drinks or intently tip a lot of people.I like them,they are welcome,i'll take their gift,give them a little warm hug,longer handshake…there's a kind and nurturing feel about them,these people know how to open up and give of themselves! But i can see right through them,i know you cant have this guy exclusively to yourself...their behaviour reminds of an adult grooming kids,sooner or later they come across that neglected needy kid who'll want to engage with them further.Those generous guys also tend to be a bit older and interested in women quite younger than themselves and preferably short,petite,baby faced or otherwise youthful looking.So i can see what draws these two types together,it does make sense.No judgement intended just my observation.X

Lena,

I received a XXX Christmas CD from a club patron some years ago. So funny!

I've never met one described above, but if she shows up and there is entanglement like sticky entanglement but not messy high stress, I would certainly jump on the idea of escalating the relationship to a higher level, the highest level my budget could possibly kick up.

Lena,

Jestrite50 is someone I greatly admire. He is actually living the free kind of a life which I have always wanted, but have found myself unable to obtain. So I give very close consideration to everything he says and I find his stories most enlightening. He has figured out how to get into some middle zone, where he is handing these women money, but he still has a much closer relationship with them, and he gets all the benefits of this.

There are already contentious discussions going on which do relate to what is said in the excerpted pages of your book, and in your article and your posts. Some of it just comes down to what people think of their strippers and how they want to be interacting with them.

You can see how SlickSpic started this thread, asking how people would see their high mileage oriented stripper as being suitable for a long term relationship. Most people seem to say that the answer is no. But I and some others don't see it this way. I have never gone along with this division of women into two categories, and I have always tried not to contribute to it.

But most of my own actual experiences with sex workers have been in AMPs ( Asian Massage Parlors ). These are very strong where I live, Santa Clara County, and in San Francisco. I do find that many of the white strippers lead extremely destructive lives and would be very hard to deal with in any off the job context. I have never found this to be true among the Asian Massage Girls. They are ordinary people and they live conservative and responsible lives, and they can dish out explosive sex and GFE and just be an absolute pleasure to be with.

Where I live, the SC's are zero touching. Most of those on TUSCL are not used to anything like this. But I have always enjoyed them. They are for talking and flirting. Sometimes because talk is all you can do, they can be for talking dirty to girls. This can go quite far sometimes and it does have a lasting effect on both people, almost as if real sex had occurred.

But I have consistently been an advocate for something which is quite controversial in SC's and Pay 4 Play situations, kissing. Many different attitudes have been expressed about this on TUSCL. Shadowcat started a thread, and then others followed and it has come up in other places. Shadowcat is a very frequent and knowledgeable poster. He is always in SC's, and always partaking to the fullest.

Shadowcat's Kissing Thread tuscl.net

My own position about this comes from experiences in AMPs and AAMPs, from what has been written about some of the most extreme SC's in the country, from what is widely written about Mexico and from my own local experiences with some Latinas, and just from experiences with civilian women and trying to understand how they are wired up.

Some here are strong supporters of the "extras" approach, and often what that means is dry humping or HJ / BJ till completion. I have never been a fan of this and I am still not. I feel that it contributes to sexual dysfunction and frustration. These issues continue to be discussed on many threads.

I have also been a strong advocate of building rapport with strippers before every doing any more than just a minimum of dances and money. Best even to take the initiative one's self. Get the girl off of script and get her responding to you. So you don't let her sell you much of anything. You find other ways to approach her and interact with her.

And of course I have found that this works splendidly well in AMPs. Those places are not intending to offer escort style GFE sessions. But when I can get the girl off of script and responding to me, it goes beyond GFE. She makes it into GFA ( Girl Friend Audition ), and this is just absolutely sublime.

But unlike Jestrite50, until now I have never been in the position to pursue outside relationships with these women. I have never been able to give them what they want. This will change.

I've always had to keep it within some bounds because I was married. I knew I did not want any of them to become my mistress, as when that happens it will always end up with the feelings of the mistress being badly hurt. Once that happens, watch out. So there were lines which I was careful never to cross.

Although San Francisco is where lap dancing started, in my opinion, the situation today is crumby.

Deals with the history of contact strip clubs, Jim and Artie Mitchell and their O'Farrell Theater amazon.com

Larry Flynt, ran 8 Go Go Bars in Southern Ohio, mid 1960's through 70's. Differing views on how an owner/manager should conduct themselves have been expressed. Flynt was having sex with his dancers around the clock. I think he eventually got tired of it and this is why he sold out of that business. amazon.com

And here we talk about the history of the legal issues, and two ways these might be gotten around: tuscl.net

sites.google.com SJG

Pompeii, Lupanare Grande Den of the She-Wolves

bing.com

youtube.com

@Lena, I am a giver and a pleaser. When I bring little things to a club, I bring them for all the girls. I just love women, especially dancers, and want to treat them special. You gals give and give and give of yourselves. You give your time your talents, your affections, your entire body mind and soul to help us emotional basket cases to feel loved, needed, and secure in our egos. That's why I treat dancers special. Not just any girl can do what you do. It takes a special kind of girl. Why you could get a job at Walmart making more money sometimes. But instead you stay at the club hoping to hit it big with that lonely guy who wants you so bad he will pay big bucks just to be with you one evening. If you ask any of my GFE girls they will tell you how much they appreciate what I do for them. I make life better for them. All they have to do is be my GF for 1 or 2 nights a month and keep in touch with me at least once a day so I know how they're doing and how I can help them. Thats all I'm not a controlling person but if I'm helping you financial I want to know I'm helping you and not enabling you. Thanks for your comments Lena !

And sure enough, another discussion about kissing, with Jestrite50 and Duke69, two of the guys who understand this: tuscl.net

Jestrite50 has learned how to make it so that bigger money, like what one would pay for maximum VIP dances, is just a simple gratuity. He has learned how to give it freely, just like guys do with $1 stage tips.

It gets to the roots of this thread, what do you really think of the strippers you are handing money to?

And Lena, it gets to the premises of your book, how do strippers and their customers engage and make that "mental and emotional connection"?

sites.google.com SJG

White Snake youtube.com

@jestrite50 :) yeah thanks you welcome,as i said people like you are welcome,i have no problem with guys who are multiple beautiful strippers oriented,they have this broad appeal and just joy to be around,despite the things that eating them outside of their beloved hobby.i ran into a guy like that in my first month of stripping and we properly dated for a couple of months.i have only fond memories of him,he spent some crazy money and spoiled me rotten right from the start,showed me some coolest places in London,made me believe i'm magical.He used to work as a strip club manager he liked strippers so much.All his friends were gorgeous women.And then he went bankrupt,had a mental meltdown,i paid for his rent once and we drifted apart.So no i wouldn't do a guy like that again,but i do understand and like them:)

@Lena I love spending crazy money on beautiful girls and spoiling them rotten right from the start. I don't get to the UK often but I would love to spend some crazy money on you and spoil you rotten. How bout it ?

Haha jestrite50 thank you,I'll keep you in mind;)

Well it doesn't hurt for a guy to ask ! LOL !!!