Why so many older patrons in strip clubs?

Sorry to disappoint you, FONDL, but if the struggle ever gets to this point, I will simply have to parley for terms....

Chitown, I assume you've prepared a strong closing argument. Can I get a copy?

I'll bet Mrs. Chitown doesn't think strip clubs are mainstream. Neither does Mrs. FONDL.

No, not any more than I would think that sleeping on the sofa for the indefinite future was mainstream if certain facts became known....

Chitown, I agree with your comments about stratification of income and the decline in small-town manufacturing jobs. Add to that the altered treatment of expense accounts and increased competition from other forms of adult entertainment and I think you've accounted for most of the reasons that the strip club business is in decline. So to answer the original question, it seems to me that traditionally SC's have gotten most of their income from 3 groups: guys traveling on expense accounts, factory workers, and older retired guys. The first two of those 3 groups have declined while the third has increased. (I left out the young punks because they don't spend much money.) And I suppose that for some clubs bachelor parties is a big source of income, and that's probably growing. That's probably what keeps some glitzy GC's above water.

FONDL: I agree, I liked it a lot better when strip clubs where more underground. MTV, reality TV, tabloid television and journalism and the internet have all raised the profile of SC's and attempted to portray them as entertainment bordering on mainstream. I knew we where in trouble when MSN posted a list of hot careers last year and stripping was one of them-I wish I had saved it, damn it was hilarious. Anyway, for the most part, I think clubs are still considered mostly taboo in mainstream society (fine with me) but I do think that all the media coverage has had an effect on the increase of female patrons and the increase of very average looking women attempting to become dancers. The decrease in overall club business-especially during the day-is responsible for these women actually getting hired.

I feel most of the older patrons are great customers:

• They actually spend more money and well behaved.

• Enjoying their drinks, and stay and spend more time, and regular visitors to strip clubs.

• Having fun in getting lap dances, drinks with the dancers, tipping actions, etc....

Some other (not all) crowds are just borilng. All they do is noise, shouting, etc......

I'll take any time the older customers, are most of the time are the true Gentlemen!

BTW, FunSeeker, I agree with your initial statement that lots of oder people go to strip clubs. I try to sit as far away from them as possible.

FONDL: More in the 90s than in the 80s, now now.

" if many more people are going to strip clubs, why are so many clubs empty much of the time and why are so many dancers complaining about lousy business? "

I think this somewhat overlaps a discussion from a couple of months ago. As I recall, we had a lot of different theories, some of them contradictory. My favorites are:

Stratification of the economy...more money is being concentrated in the hands of fewer men. The average guy can't blow a couple of hundred dollars in a strip club, and isn't interested in going if he can't enjoy the complete experience.

A proliferation of strip clubs caused by the decline of manufacturing bases in small towns. This has caused the emergence of strip clubs in incredibly unlikely places, like little towns in the Midwest. So, you could have a greater absolute number of sc customers, but they are being spread over a greater number of clubs. Longtime dancers have, within the past year, told me that the financial aspect of stripping is as bad as it has been since the INternet boom of the mid-late 90s.

Other people on the board have advanced such theories as desensitization of young people to strip clubs, making hem less attractive, and the rise of internet porn, porn videos, and other forms of sexual entertainment.

Chandler, if many more people are going to strip clubs, why are so many clubs empty much of the time and why are so many dancers complaining about lousy business?

AN, no question that there is a lot more trashy sex on network TV than used to be the case. There are also a lot fewer people watching. Some observers think those two phenomena are related. TV networks and movies are definately trying to portray strip clubs as becoming more mainstream. I just don't think they're succeeding. In fact more than anything else I think they're fueling the backlash. I personally think we were better off when most strip clubs were small places hidden out of sight in an out-of-the-way industrial park. Fortunately there are still a lot of such places around. I'm betting that they still will be long after all the big glitzy places have gone bankrupt.

FONDL: Mainstream for the many more people who began going to clubs in the 90s. Obviously not for absolutely everyone. Your point is well taken that some segments are more hostile to strip clubs than before. That is largely a backlash in response to their increased exposure.

I don't recall a lot of guys claiming they could get sex from young girls for free, as you claim. If we are talking OTC relationships, well, if you think it's ever free...

AN: for free smartass... Not a stunning revelation, of course. Fuck you and yer strawmen and yer general idiocy. The point was people are starting to come out of denial. Idiot.

Yoda, you miss the point. Our problem (according to davids) is that we are too old and unattractive to pick up 19 year old nymphets the way davids can (by implication) so easily. In fact he is so stupendously successful with women he needs a new challenge, strippers. See, nobody has ever thought of this before, picking up strippers that is. Certainly, nobody has ever tried to employ some strategy to make themselves seem more desirable or "different" from all the other customers. And we definitely know what an innovation going to a strip club and not spending a lot on dancers is, and how successful it is in setting you apart from other patrons.

AN: Nah, the point is that posters here used to claim "no problem getting sex from hot, young women anytime they want". Now the tune seemes to have changed. At least some people are being more honest here now. Is FONDL willing to fess up yet?

davids, Really? Here is something you might want to look into. There are these women called "escorts". They are often young and hot if you choose carefully (from what I've heard), and cost about the same as a few strip club visits. Any guy can have one delivered to his door if he has the money. I'd have to say that guys that claim they can get sex from hot young girls whenever they want are probably on pretty firm ground. If it is your next stunning revalation that old guys in general aren't as attractive to young girls as young guys, WOW, I gotta say you floored me on that one. Any other stunning revelations?

davids, yes, you are right, you figured me out. It is true that strip clubs are the only place I can get a hot 22 year old I don't know to rub her naked body all over mine and let me grope her for $20 after a 5 minute conversation (conversation optional). This is the tragedy of my life.

Davids: Why do you continue to associate going to strip clubs with "having a problem" and, if so, why do you continue going to them yourself?

FONDL, perhaps not mainstream, but they are certainly on their way to being more socially acceptable, as is porn in general. Look at prime time TV comedies and how often guys (or girls) end up in a strip club where hillarious hijinks ensue. That certainly wouldn't have passed muster in the 1970's and early '80's (although I think there was one episode of Happy Days...). You will also find clubs are not entirely confined to red light districts, but can be in regular neighborhoods like most other buisnesses. Sure there is some pushback, but I think overall clubs are getting to be a more accepted feature of life in most major cities and a lot of minor ones.

Sounds like many people are at least starting to admit that the real reason they are in strip clubs is because they feel they are to old to attract young, attractive women. First admit your real problems folks. That's a good start.

Chandler, also a good point on AIDS. It couls be that it was part of the move to clean up clubs, resulting in a safer environment and a better, or at least less negative reputation.

I agree that there are a lot more fancy clubs than there used to be, but I don't agree that fancy constitutes mainstreaming. Mainstream for who? As I've said before, it used to be common business practice to take customers to strip clubs for entertainment. That's now a big taboo in most companies. So at least for that one sector of society it's moved in the opposite direction of mainstreaming. I also think that as clubs have become fancier and more numerous, opposition has also strengthened. They're attracting more attention. I'll bet Mrs. Chitown doesn't think strip clubs are mainstream. Neither does Mrs. FONDL.

I could believe that strippers aren't very likely to be sexually repressed and maybe a bit more casual about nudity, but I'm not sure that would translate to skill. I've found that older women (early 30's) who are more comfortable with their bodies and sexuality are a lot better in bed than hot 22 year olds used to getting by on their looks and youth (in my limited experience).

Davids: Who ever said strippers are supposed to be the best in bed?

A different board. Now there's an idea.

Strippers are supposed to be the best in bed, so that is why 20 somethings might want to spend time pursuing them. Quality over quantity. Also some might find the challenge of it all just plain fun.

If someone that age just wants to maximize the number of lays, then internet dating is the way to go:

Easy to get a date every night of week if one wants to, providing you know how to play the net. But I guess that's a subject for a different board.

There are not more older guys, just more younger guys noticing them. older guys have always been the staple cutomer of strip clubs-attached guys or just older guys who want some strange NSA ass.

As for the influx of younger guys, well, MTV made strip clubs cool so now these young, no-money punks are taking up space in clubs and hitting on strippers when they should be at a regular bar hitting on women who are their for the same reason that they are.

Another possible reason: Once on another board, guys were reminiscing about how a $1 tip used to get you what now takes $20 and up. Somebody chipped in that 20-30 years ago, strippers couldn't expect more than a buck, because it was so easy for anybody to get laid back then. Is it a coincidence that strip clubs took off around the same time AIDS made casual sex harder (and riskier) to come by?

Chandler, I was also into my 30's and the mid 1990's before I truely discovered strip clubs, even though from 1986 till 1989 I lived within blocks of one. I think it is probably best I didn't discover them at that time.

Good points, AN, and one regret I do have is that my mongering didn't begin before all those seedy red light districts were cleaned up.

FONDL: Thanks, but my question was intended to be rhetorical. (Sorry, I really don't mean to be snapping back at everything you post today.)

As for Chitown's premise, there was an obvious mainstreaming of strip clubs from the 80s to the 90s. I think it was mainly due to just increased exposure (no pun), and maybe age demographics, but not so much greater permissiveness. A lot of business-oriented owners realized they could make money opening clubs, and a lot of cute girls realized they could make money stripping. The backlash of anti-acceptance didn't put the brakes on club growth until the market was already oversaturated.

I think one overlooked reason that clubs were mainstreamed is that a lot of cities cleaned up the red light districts in the 1980's. When all the clubs were in one seedy dangerous area of town a lot of people didn't want to go there after dark. I am familiar with Liberty Ave. in Pittsburgh, but I think it applies in general. Many of the cities cracked down on prostitution and drug use in these areas, which was almost uncheckeked at the time. In addition, the worst of the clubs were raided and closed. In response some of the others cleaned up their act to an extent. With the neighborhoods where the clubs that were left now relatively safe, more people were able to visit, and their reputation was not based soley on being in the wrong area of town. Another possible source of porn mainstreaming in general is the VCR. People who wouldn't be caught dead in an adult theater were willing to watch porn in the privacy of their own home. This made a lot of people a lot more tolerant of adult entertainment in general.

Chandler, I think different folks go to clubs for different reasons. A lot of older guys go because they are lonely. A lot of younger guys go for laughs, they enjoy making fun of the girls. And a lot of guys of all ages go for the sexual activities. I'm sure there are other reasons as well.

Chitown, I'm not sure that I agree with your basic premise, that strip clubs have become more socially acceptable. That may be true in some areas and for some groups of people, after all, our whole society has become more permissive in some respects. But for other areas and other large segments of our society I think SC's are still considered to be pretty seedy. Age-wise, I think that people who grew up during and after the sexual revolution of the late-60's-early 70's tend to be more permissive than those of us who grew up before that time (which probably accounts for whatever truth lies in your premise.) But I think it's much more complicated than that. Our society has fragmented along so many lines that it's become hard to generalize about us anymore. We used to be a lot more homogeneous but those days are gone forever.

I notice a lot more younger patrons in strip clubs nowadays. When I was their age, I was too busy getting laid, and too broke to even think about going to clubs, and they're no better off, judging by how little they spend. My question is why anybody in their 20s wastes time in strip clubs when they could be "out bird-dogging chicks and bangin' beaver"*.

*In the immortal words of Kesey/McMurphy/Nicholson

My conjectures:

a) older men generally have trouble attracting women that age without paying b) they have more money and time on their hands c) they are less like to fall under the spell of strippers: they realize that dating/sex (w/o paying) is unlikely due to the age difference: thus they can sustain the hobby emotionally long term d) some like the dellusion that strippers see them as "father figures" (yeah daddy paid for pussy/conversation, what the fuck ever)

One of which may be money. I started to going to clubs when I was in my middle thirties. I once asked myself, "Chitown, why didn't you go to strip clubs in the 1980s", when you were in your twenties?

I have settled on the following reasons:

1. For most of the 80s, I was in college and law school, with no disposable income.

2. For the remainder of the 80s, when I was first practicing law, I wasn't making enough money. Although I was with a good firm in a large metropolitan area, the tiproll that I now take into a club (with every intention of spending) equals 1% of what my gross annual income was as a young lawyer. Now, my income has increased to the point where it is proportionately much less.

3. Strip clubs in the 80s were not what they are now, or were in the 90s. From one decade to the next, they became much more mainstream and visible.

4. And finally, I spent my working life during the 80s living in Chicago, a town where adult entertainment just stinks, including strip clubs. I think that Chicago LE is still overcompensating for the crime problems in the 30s.

I would like hearing from some of the more senior members of this site their theories on WHY sc's became more mainstream from the 80s to the 90s. I don't think there is any question that, before the 90s, strip clubs were considered seedy relics of red light districts, whereas starting in the 90s they became considered just another form of entertainment. In other words, when and how did strip clubs go from the "Hardcore" presentation of the 70s to the "Showgirls" version of the 90s?

If you go to clubs during the day you see a lot of older guys. But that's equally true of regular bars. I think it's mainly because there are a lot of lonely older people out there. I also think they (or should I say we) stand out more because there are fewer younger guys in clubs today than in the past, for a whole variety of reasons.

Because their wives and girlfriends are roughly the same age or their trophy wives are in their mid 30s+, and the girls in the clubs are in their early 20's.

I haven't really noticed that. Of course I'm probably too busy watching all of the 18 to 20 something year old strippers. :)
I had one dancer lie to me and tell me she was almost 40. I corrected her immediately (maybe she was testing my memory). She had told me her age before and I remembered. She only looks like 27 to 29. I was thinking if dancers still look that good in their 40's, everyone else must be doing something wrong.

By the way, I'm almost there in that older catogory!

The first sentence should read "Lots of older people patronize strip clubs."

Sorry for the error. No edit button options in this message board.

CT; Re Mainstreaming of Clubs Factors: 1) Looser Sexual restrictions in movies, TV, and other entertainment venues makes for more "acceptable" environment for stripclubs. 2) Aforementioned factor makes businessmen clubowners to upgrade/open clubs. Most notable example: MJ Peter in late 80's. We can debate definition/extent of mainstream all night long, but there's no denying that no. of SC's has increased dramatically last 10-15 yrs. Another sign of "mainstreaming" is the increase in no. of female customers in SC's. I'm not just talking " drag alongs" or lesbians, I see more going along w. mixed group, sitting in PR seats, actively tipping, and spicing things up a bit w. flashing. This thread got hijacked a bit, but CT did ask a good ?