How does compensating strippers for "their time" and conversatin affect their perception of you? Do they gain respect for you, since you respected the fact that they are there working to make money, or do they just think you are a PATHETIC LOSER?
FunSeeker: I think that one thing people don't consider enough when thinking about this question is what do customers have to offer strippers beyond cash, and are they able to realize this?
I think that having someone they talk to who never pays them offers many of them a sense of redemption from the eviler aspects of the work they do as a strippers.
There are many other things customers can offer strippers, beside the example I gave, and cash, which should make it so worth their while talking that they will do so even in the abscence of cash. Some will even refuse cash when offered in fact. I believe that more customers ought to consider this and think more from that prespective.
davids, I may have to re-consider ignoring you. I think you want me to go away so you can post without being refuted. In addition lately I just kind of get a kick out of pushing your buttons and watching you go ballistic.
Since you aren't responding anymore that'll let me have the final word, so I'll try to be clear and wrap it all up. By the way, if you do respond I can call you a liar again, right? Isn't that how it works? You get to post whatever you want and I'm supposed to let you and if I don't I'm a liar? I think I'll apply the same standard. Besides, with the new kill tool I won't be disturbing any of the other posters with troll feeding threads.
"Firstly, MY original question was not whether you CLAIMED to not care or not it was how perception was affected. Learn to read, you fucking moron."
So it appears once again you CLAIM to somehow know my feelings toward strippers. You are wrong. I really don't care what they think of me. I can no more prove I am telling the truth than you can prove I am lying so this is a fruitless area of debate. You claiming I am in denial or lying has no more validity than me claiming you molest kittens and eat puppies. Prove me wrong you puppy eating kitten molester.
I did read your message and it contains a two faulty premises and a unprovable thesis. which I sought to briefly address before answering the question. I know I did this only indirectly by saying essentially I don't know or care what they think, so I'll be more explicit this time. The first bad premise (implied) is that what a stripper thinks of me is somehow important. I reject that formulation as determinitive to having a good time in the club. The second implied premise is that spending money will be a determinitive factor of what a stripper thinks of me. I'd guess it may play a role in extreme cases but my feeling is that as long as you are spending near the average she'd judge you by many other criteria first. The untestable thesis is that we can know what a stripper thinks about us. We can only know what they tell us they think. In most cases I think that will be what they think we want to hear. After all, no stripper will ever say to a guy "you aren't like all those other losers" unless she means it, right?
As for my answering your original question I think if you could learn to get any context out of a sentance you'd understand that at some level I believe they expect compensation for their time, i.e. if you invite them to join you, and you should therefore honor the implied contract or be thought of as a PL. The bartender analogy applies to the implied contract, the bartender is not supposed to be an exact model for a stripper, but is similar enough since the vast majority of his earnings come from tips. The stripper's resource, or comodity if you prefer, is her time, the bartender's is seats at the bar and time. If you sit at the bar and insist that you are only there to socilize with the staff and not drink they will toss you out because sitting at the bar implies a desire to enter a transaction. If you do order a drink there is an implied contract that you will tip for your service. You are correct that the bartender will serve you first (still expecting to be tipped however) because he is required to do so. If however you don't tip going back to that bar on a regular basis would be a very bad idea. At best you should expect very poor service. Strippers are often required to sell drinks, socialize, and take turns on stage to keep their jobs, things they aren't compensated for at all if nobody tips. So the analogy does illustrate that at some level tipping is expected and not doing so will get you tagged as a PL in my opinion.
As for your other point;
"Second, EVEN YOU admit that bartender do get paid a wage and have responsibilities to do in order to earn it and keep employeed. If they talk to someone for an hour instead of doing their duties they have to answer to someone other than themselves that was the point. And you set up the fucking strawman: I never said they made the majority of their money from their salary, I said they got one. Where is the lie? Fuckin retarded alcoholic, loser."
Let's look at your original statement.
"Terrible analogy: Bartenders are paid based on salary and have specific tasks they are required to perform if they want to earn it."
That is not qualified in any way. It is also wrong. Bartenders are not paid a salary, they are paid an hourly wage that is minimal, nearly all their money is made from tips. There is no way you can construe what you wrote to be a true statement. The majority, and therefore the base of a bartenders earnings is tips, plain and simple. Therefore bartenders are paid based on tips, there is even a law that says so;
I'm sure some bartender somewhere gets paid primarily via a wage, but as you said, "(for the most part, let's not bring exception into this)", so for any practical purposes bartenders are tipped employees.
As for your last point about a strawman, your argument was that my analogy didn't work because bartenders aren't strippers. That is a strawman. If you accepted my first paragraph by ignoring the argument (there is an implied contract where tipping is expected) you seemed to reject it by claiming that strippers answered to nobody else, therefore they should not expect compensation for their time or are somehow immune from the implied contract that I discussed in both the original part and the analogy. In addition wether a bartender gets paid or has required duties outside of his tipped work is completely irrelevant to my thesis and the purpose of the bartender analogy, that there is an implied contract when you sit at the bar that you want service and will pay for it. Therefore your argument in ignoring the thesis and attempting to discredit the analogy as applicable is a strawman by definition.
Was I more clear this time? I hate to go on so long but you don't seem to get my point otherwise.
AN: and here's a little lesson in logic for you since you are so clearly in need: when refuting your second point so decisive and ignoring your first point, I made no claim that the former refuted the latter. For all you know I could have accepted the first. By making no comment you don't know either way. You wanted to claim that I made an implication which I did not: Just another one of your REFLEXIVE STRAWMAN. Get a clue, you WASHED UP, OLD, ALCOHOLIC.
AN: You are such a fucking retard. This is the last post of yours I am ever responding to: please fuck off forever now.
Firstly, MY original question was not whether you CLAIMED to not care or not it was how perception was affected. Learn to read, you fucking moron.
Second, EVEN YOU admit that bartender do get paid a wage and have responsibilities to do in order to earn it and keep employeed. If they talk to someone for an hour instead of doing their duties they have to answer to someone other than themselves that was the point. And you set up the fucking strawman: I never said they made the majority of their money from their salary, I said they got one. Where is the lie? Fuckin retarded alcoholic, loser.
You are the fucking liar for saying you would were going to ignore me then not doing it.
davids First strawman, you ignore the main point which was in the first paragraph, that I don't care. Probably applies to a lot of people here. If I get dances and she treats me well I'm happy.
Second, you are just plain wrong and we can add bartending to the subjects you claim to know something about but are just pulling stuff out of your ass. Bartenders make nearly all their money from tips. All servers and bartenders are required by law to get a tipped minimum wage. This is usually around $3/hour. When I was a bartender I got a wage of $7.50/hour. I never cashed a paycheck. It all went to cover the taxes on my tips. On a 6 hour shift I'd make $50 from wages and about $200+ on tips.
Too bad you had to try to lie again and got caught again, not that I expected anything different.
Terrible analogy: Bartenders are paid based on salary and have specific tasks they are required to perform if they want to earn it. Strippers get no salary (for the most part, let's not bring exception into this) and no one other than them is going to care if they sit and talk to a customer all shift long.
Nice try. Too bad your last post wasn't worth much.
OK, I'll give you a going away present before I click on the ignore next to your name. Who cares? I don't go to a strip club looking for the respect of strippers. I go to pay them to get naked for me and rub their naked bodies over mine. Conversation is a nice break between seeing them naked or getting a lapdance. Find the right dancer and it can be enjoyable too. If I invite them to spend time with me then I think that implies I'm willing to compensate them either by buying dances or tipping, so I do.
Now a question for you. Would you go to a regular bar and sit at the bar without spending any money so you could chat with the bartender? If you go to a bar and sit, that implies you want a drink. If you don't order one but just keep wanting to talk to the bartender they'll kick your ass out, how do you think that affects their perception of you?
We all put in tons of free hours at our work. Even some dancers do free conversation sometimes. But you need compensate the dancers just like you get your pay check.
I don't mind compensating strippers for their time espesh if I perceive they're not all in it for the money (which of course they are) but some are more obvious.
13 comments
Latest
I think that having someone they talk to who never pays them offers many of them a sense of redemption from the eviler aspects of the work they do as a strippers.
There are many other things customers can offer strippers, beside the example I gave, and cash, which should make it so worth their while talking that they will do so even in the abscence of cash. Some will even refuse cash when offered in fact. I believe that more customers ought to consider this and think more from that prespective.
Since you aren't responding anymore that'll let me have the final word, so I'll try to be clear and wrap it all up. By the way, if you do respond I can call you a liar again, right? Isn't that how it works? You get to post whatever you want and I'm supposed to let you and if I don't I'm a liar? I think I'll apply the same standard. Besides, with the new kill tool I won't be disturbing any of the other posters with troll feeding threads.
"Firstly, MY original question was not whether you CLAIMED to not care or not it was how perception was affected. Learn to read, you fucking moron."
So it appears once again you CLAIM to somehow know my feelings toward strippers. You are wrong. I really don't care what they think of me. I can no more prove I am telling the truth than you can prove I am lying so this is a fruitless area of debate. You claiming I am in denial or lying has no more validity than me claiming you molest kittens and eat puppies. Prove me wrong you puppy eating kitten molester.
I did read your message and it contains a two faulty premises and a unprovable thesis. which I sought to briefly address before answering the question. I know I did this only indirectly by saying essentially I don't know or care what they think, so I'll be more explicit this time. The first bad premise (implied) is that what a stripper thinks of me is somehow important. I reject that formulation as determinitive to having a good time in the club. The second implied premise is that spending money will be a determinitive factor of what a stripper thinks of me. I'd guess it may play a role in extreme cases but my feeling is that as long as you are spending near the average she'd judge you by many other criteria first. The untestable thesis is that we can know what a stripper thinks about us. We can only know what they tell us they think. In most cases I think that will be what they think we want to hear. After all, no stripper will ever say to a guy "you aren't like all those other losers" unless she means it, right?
As for my answering your original question I think if you could learn to get any context out of a sentance you'd understand that at some level I believe they expect compensation for their time, i.e. if you invite them to join you, and you should therefore honor the implied contract or be thought of as a PL. The bartender analogy applies to the implied contract, the bartender is not supposed to be an exact model for a stripper, but is similar enough since the vast majority of his earnings come from tips. The stripper's resource, or comodity if you prefer, is her time, the bartender's is seats at the bar and time. If you sit at the bar and insist that you are only there to socilize with the staff and not drink they will toss you out because sitting at the bar implies a desire to enter a transaction. If you do order a drink there is an implied contract that you will tip for your service. You are correct that the bartender will serve you first (still expecting to be tipped however) because he is required to do so. If however you don't tip going back to that bar on a regular basis would be a very bad idea. At best you should expect very poor service. Strippers are often required to sell drinks, socialize, and take turns on stage to keep their jobs, things they aren't compensated for at all if nobody tips. So the analogy does illustrate that at some level tipping is expected and not doing so will get you tagged as a PL in my opinion.
As for your other point;
"Second, EVEN YOU admit that bartender do get paid a wage and have responsibilities to do in order to earn it and keep employeed. If they talk to someone for an hour instead of doing their duties they have to answer to someone other than themselves that was the point. And you set up the fucking strawman: I never said they made the majority of their money from their salary, I said they got one. Where is the lie? Fuckin retarded alcoholic, loser."
Let's look at your original statement.
"Terrible analogy: Bartenders are paid based on salary and have specific tasks they are required to perform if they want to earn it."
That is not qualified in any way. It is also wrong. Bartenders are not paid a salary, they are paid an hourly wage that is minimal, nearly all their money is made from tips. There is no way you can construe what you wrote to be a true statement. The majority, and therefore the base of a bartenders earnings is tips, plain and simple. Therefore bartenders are paid based on tips, there is even a law that says so;
http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/whd/stat…
I'm sure some bartender somewhere gets paid primarily via a wage, but as you said, "(for the most part, let's not bring exception into this)", so for any practical purposes bartenders are tipped employees.
As for your last point about a strawman, your argument was that my analogy didn't work because bartenders aren't strippers. That is a strawman. If you accepted my first paragraph by ignoring the argument (there is an implied contract where tipping is expected) you seemed to reject it by claiming that strippers answered to nobody else, therefore they should not expect compensation for their time or are somehow immune from the implied contract that I discussed in both the original part and the analogy. In addition wether a bartender gets paid or has required duties outside of his tipped work is completely irrelevant to my thesis and the purpose of the bartender analogy, that there is an implied contract when you sit at the bar that you want service and will pay for it. Therefore your argument in ignoring the thesis and attempting to discredit the analogy as applicable is a strawman by definition.
Was I more clear this time? I hate to go on so long but you don't seem to get my point otherwise.
Firstly, MY original question was not whether you CLAIMED to not care or not it was how perception was affected. Learn to read, you fucking moron.
Second, EVEN YOU admit that bartender do get paid a wage and have responsibilities to do in order to earn it and keep employeed. If they talk to someone for an hour instead of doing their duties they have to answer to someone other than themselves that was the point. And you set up the fucking strawman: I never said they made the majority of their money from their salary, I said they got one. Where is the lie? Fuckin retarded alcoholic, loser.
You are the fucking liar for saying you would were going to ignore me then not doing it.
You lose once again, AN.
Back to the gutter now, you fat old alcoholic!
Second, you are just plain wrong and we can add bartending to the subjects you claim to know something about but are just pulling stuff out of your ass. Bartenders make nearly all their money from tips. All servers and bartenders are required by law to get a tipped minimum wage. This is usually around $3/hour. When I was a bartender I got a wage of $7.50/hour. I never cashed a paycheck. It all went to cover the taxes on my tips. On a 6 hour shift I'd make $50 from wages and about $200+ on tips.
Too bad you had to try to lie again and got caught again, not that I expected anything different.
Nice try. Too bad your last post wasn't worth much.
Bye-bye, AN.
Now a question for you. Would you go to a regular bar and sit at the bar without spending any money so you could chat with the bartender? If you go to a bar and sit, that implies you want a drink. If you don't order one but just keep wanting to talk to the bartender they'll kick your ass out, how do you think that affects their perception of you?
Please do remember, they are there to make MONEY.
Would do WORK for FREE????
I will pay for drinks to have conversations for good and nice dancers.
Would YOU WORK for FREE at your job????