Shattering the illusion

25 comments

• cnyknight

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  12 years ago

  I was leaving the dive ive been writing about lately after spreading some cash around on drinks and lappers. My budget for the day exhausted, was waiting for my fav to come out of the ladies room when one of the other girls calls me over... asks me to buy her another shot. I told her politely i was leaving and didnt have cash handy. If looks could kill, i wouldnt be writing this...
• Player11

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  12 years ago

  Well I hope you got your moneys worth. I have an appointment with one otc Saturday. She will be wearing a sexy mini dress and I will strip her and take all kinds of sexy pics of her. Then I will lay her, feel her, and fuk her silly. Cost will be $200.
• Alucard

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  12 years ago

  NOTHING good comes from intoxication.
• ilbbaicnl

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  12 years ago

  It's a feedback loop. Society thinks commercialize sex is nasty and seedy. This leads to a disproportionate number of nasty, seedy people patronizing and working in strip clubs. Many dancers start out normal, but stay in it for the fast money and get nasty and carny. Customers get frustrated with the nasty environment and behave more nastily than many of them otherwise would.
• lopaw

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  12 years ago

  A dancer acting like that isn't surprising at all. It is established very early on in a dancer's head that the money goes in one direction ONLY - from customer to dancer, never the other way around.
• gatorfan

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  12 years ago

  If you spent less money on her you would have been able to buy the drink. Next time do that. Never empty your wallet.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  "A dancer acting like that isn't surprising at all. It is established very early on in a dancer's head that the money goes in one direction ONLY - from customer to dancer, never the other way around." Exactly. I cringed the moment that I came to the part of the story where you asked her to pay for the drink, knowing exactly where it was going from there. Once you asked her to pay for your drinks, you transitioned from being a source of funds to a burden who (in her mind) doesn't understand how this thing is supposed to work. What you did was a cardinal sin in her eyes. In her mind, if your wallet was empty, you should have (1) left the club; (2) hit the ATM; or (3) put down your CC.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  Yep, getting mad over $10 in the short term and lose hundreds in the long term. Sounds exactly like the "see only the immediate moment" that many strippers can. Nobody (except for txittyfan) ever accused strippers of being smart.
• Tiredtraveler

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  12 years ago

  The only time I have ever had a dancer buy was an ATF and she would buy me drink once in a while knowing she would get it back in VIP. The club would also wave her stage fee if she sold the required number of drinks. She also thought that I would tip her more if I drank more liquor. I usually pace myself to stay legal when I leave so it did her no good but she did get more in the long run and she knew it. She played the game well and we both had no illusions about the relationship. Your girl was penny wise and pound foolish as the saying goes.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  Dancers think short term because they have to. Tomorrow is a world away in this business and anything can happen. At a moment's notice, a customer can switch clubs and/or favorites, run into financial difficulties, etc. There is no such thing as loyalty in a SC and that definitely runs both ways.
• Dougster

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  12 years ago

  No they think short term because that is a trait associated with anti-social personality disorder.
• Alucard

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  12 years ago

  Just like you Dougster?
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  "Dancers think short term because they have to. Tomorrow is a world away in this business and anything can happen. At a moment's notice, a customer can switch clubs and/or favorites, run into financial difficulties, etc." Okay, now I'm really confused. Rick, aren't you one of the guys who was so convinced that club management was being smart by focusing on a few big spenders during night shift than giving a damn about the many dayshift guys who each spend less? But now apparently you're saying don't put all your eggs in one basket, or rely on a single customer who might be a big spender, because it's dumb, and he could be gone tomorrow and the stripper is out of luck. Dude, I know you're a really smart seasoned veteran, but you're confusing me.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  ^jerikson, you are confused because you lack context relating to strip club economics and dynamics. Folks around here have tried to explain some things to you, but a combination of poor reading comprehension and certain emotional predispositions are making it difficult for you to understand and accept what you are being told. First, you need to separate out what dancers view as important vs. what club management does. You seem to continue to struggle in understanding that dancers are not employees of the club, can only be controlled to a limited degree by the club and have different incentives than the club. All the club sells are (1) drinks and seats to the event (through a cover) to the customers; and (2) spots for the dancers to ply their wares (through house fees). So for the clubs it is a game of numbers. It costs a lot of money just to open the club doors (utilities, bar/wait staff, bouncers, etc.), so if the club cannot earn enough in drinks, cover charges and house fees then it either will not open during the day at all or, if it needs to be open for daytime business reasons, will be lightly staffed. The best way to view the dancers, however, is as auctioneers. Each girl tries to sell her services to HER highest spenders on any given night in order to maximize her takehome for that night. And for her the biggest spenders will often change from night to night. Now that is not to say that she won't gladly pick up one-off LD money if nothing more lucrative is staring her in the face, but in general the guys who are offering more upside ON THAT NIGHT get the disproportionate share of each girl's time. So as you can (I hope) see, while clubs are indeed incentized to keep every guy as happy as possible as it brings in more bar business and cover charges, dancers are incentivized to spend the most time with their best prospects. It is a delicate balance. The clubs have to keep the customers happy, but also cannot fuck around too much with the dancers' ability to earn or else the best girls will take their house fees somewhere else, which in turn will result in fewer customers coming into the club. Clubs manage this by requiring most of the dancers to perform on the stage as a condition of plying their wares in the club, which keeps many of the club customers happy, while otherwise generally leaving them alone to earn as they see fit. There are a lot of variations to this, but these are the basic dynamics in a lot of the clubs out there.
• Alucard

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  12 years ago

  "than giving a damn about the many dayshift guys who each spend less?" I spend a considerable amount of money when I visit a club during the day. Perhaps more than many night persons. So I guess maybe I should be catered to a bit. LMAO
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  Rick sez: "...dancers are incentivized to spend the most time with their best prospects" And then he sez: "At a moment's notice, a customer can switch clubs and/or favorites, run into financial difficulties, etc." Now, Rick, you see the reason for my confusion, right? You say the dancers are incentivized to spend most of their time with one customer, but at the same time you're saying (correctly) that one customer can be gone in a flash. Why would a dancer not be incentivized (as many dancers are) to thinking in the longer term, where she spends her shift making MANY customers happy, resulting in lots of repeat business from many individuals, as opposed to ONE GUY who could be dead tomorrow? We all know of hard working strippers, who bounce around to many guys during their shift, have great personalities, and give excellent lap dances, and build a large group of guys who love her and come back regularly, and tell their friends about what a great club it is. And as a result she and the club makes a bundle of money over the long term. And what's more, the stripper has the same incentive as the club. Each new customer coming in means each stripper has one more opportunity to develop a long term customer who comes back to see her over and over.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  Who says dancers DON'T circulate when they are not otherwise occupied? Why is it one extreme or the other with you? One of your primary complaints on this board has revolved around dancers who sit with guys for long periods of time. They do this because they are getting paid. That does not also mean that they never circulate, but if she has a big kill in front of her she has to take it down while it is available. As the old saying goes, a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. Long term thinking neither pays today's bills nor guarantees future income. Perhaps you missed this: "At a moment's notice, a customer can switch clubs and/or favorites, run into financial difficulties, etc. There is no such thing as loyalty in a SC and that definitely runs both ways." Customers are almost as unreliable as dancers, which makes it even more important that she takes down what is in front of her before burns time on lower margin cultivation activities. The general approach is to kill when it is there to be had and to cultivate when there is no big game in the gun sights. You just happen to be complaining about girls who you see working the collection component of their games.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  When the incentives really start to misalign is when a girl is in demand and has a number of big spenders visiting her. When that happens, she may rarely circulate. Remember, she has only a finite amount of time to work and must maximize the time that she has. Good for her, bad for anyone else who wants time with her.
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  Okay, Rick. I'll let it go. You're just not making sense. You act like all strippers are economic robots who do only what's in their economic best interest at any particular moment. That's ludicrous. OF COURSE some/many dancers don't circulate when they're not otherwise occupied. Are you serious? Have you never visited a strip club and seen girls screwing off in the corner, noses in their cellphones? And then you say: "Long term thinking neither pays today's bills nor guarantees future income". You've gotta be kidding. Dude, seriously, if you ever have the opportunity to own or manage a business, turn it down. That kind of thinking is just ridiculous. Today's bills for most of us are paid by choices we made in high school, to go to college, and work hard, and get a good job. Dude, you're just being an idiot.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  Jerikson, nobody said that some girls don't goof off a times. Once again you are talking in extremes. In fact, we recently discussed this very issue, including some of the reasons why it happens (burnout and others) and the fact that there is little that management can do about it (for reasons repeatedly discussed). Your memory is very short. AND once again you are trying to compare strip clubs decision making to that done in other venues. I do own a business and it does quite well. Why? Because I understand the sales process necessary for my particular environment. Most dancers know that a customer's loyalty may only extend to the next time that some other girl gives him a boner, so they need to take it down while they can. Now if he comes back then awesome, but there is no way to know if he will or if some other girl will be getting his money next week. But in your view of the world, a manager should come over to the girl sitting next to the big spender and say, "I don't care if he's paying you $300 just to sit with him. Jerkoff40 has been waiting patiently for a couple of dances from you, so go over there and give them to him." Yeah, that makes a lot more sense.
• steve_ny

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  12 years ago

  Rick,I do find it weird sometimes how some of the girls can be so good at marketing themselves and so bad at realizing they can cost themselves money by acting in a certain way. They can text you for days trying to get you there and do something stupid, someone mentioned talking to a girlfriend during a dance or texting at the bar. I realize that they are losing money because I may cut them off but they are so in the moment and care about what they make that shift. They don't realize that when they have a $200 Tuesday, it may because they turned me off and I didn't show.
• Alucard

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  12 years ago

  Just lessons the dancers have to learn. The easy way or the HARD way.
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  Rick sez: "One of your primary complaints on this board has revolved around dancers who sit with guys for long periods of time. They do this because they are getting paid." And then he sez: "Jerikson, nobody said that some girls don't goof off a times. Once again you are talking in extremes." So in one sentence you talk in extremes, and say that "dancers who sit with guys for long periods" are doing so "because they are getting paid". Obviously not true in many/most cases, but you repeat it over and over like it's a fact. And then you say "nobody said girls don't goof off". And then you accuse ME of talking in extremes. And then you actually try to make your point by describing some guy paying a dancer $300 just to sit with him? Are you serious? You honestly think that's typical of most dancers in most clubs around the US? Dude, you can't be serious. BTW, you still haven't addressed that idiotic statement you made about "Long term thinking neither pays today's bills nor guarantees future income". And you honestly think that dancers are incentivized to sit with one guy? Like I say, I'm gonna let this go, because you're just embarrassing yourself to try and be right. Once the silly name calling begins ("jerkoff40"), you know someone's been backed into a corner and has no way out.
• rickdugan

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  12 years ago

  Dude, believe what you want to. I don't have to "try" to be right - I am right. The name calling was admittedly out of line and was a product of sheer frustration. I am now starting to believe that my chain is being yanked - nobody could really be so obstinately ignorant in the face of feedback from me and other seasoned members. Whether you are for real or not, I am done with this. If you are serious then you'll be destined to continue to wallow in your determined ignorance and if you are running a game, which I now suspect, you will see no more fodder from me. LMAO.
• jerikson40

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  12 years ago

  So Rick, I'm curious. Is it that you think your brain will explode or something if you actually admit you made some really stupid statements and you're, like, wrong about some things? Is it really that bad of a fate? Because, I can assure you, as someone who has admitted I was wrong recently in this forum on about two or three occasions, it's not the end of the world. My brain didn't explode, and I'm still here. Really, dude, it's not the end of the world. But it's pretty much a dead giveaway that when someone refuses to address the issues, and instead resorts to the silly name calling, and caps it off with a "LMAO" and bails out, it's pretty clear you're backed into a corner and won't back down. Dude, it's not about being right, it's about discussing the issues, and maybe learning something. Seasoned veteran or not, we can all learn new things every day, can't we? I sure do. I even learned some interesting perspectives on this forum today from kittykate. Anyway, sorry to see you so upset and hitting the chutes.