So what are the risks of a customer propositioning a dancer for extras? More specifically,
And,
in US, yes when money is involved (in Canada, I'm pretty sure it's not an issue)
doubtful. why would a club do that?
It's illegal to even think about sex but if you ask in pig latin it is completely legal
I totally agree with mjx01.
If she asks first, I think the risk is low of getting in trouble. Just kidding.
I've heard about a customer in one club asking a dancer how much for a BJ and she went around the club telling everyone about him and ridiculing him. I don't know if he got kicked out of the club or not but most dancers were avoiding him after that I believe.
I 100% agree with mxj01
I think in most club environments, it's not going to get you in too much trouble to proposition. Now once inawhile awhile you'll really offend someone and they'll cause such a fuss with the manager, it'll get you thrown out.
If someone propositions me for extras, I usually just politely tell them that I dont do them. I dont care that thry asked though
I guess that is what TUSCL reviews are for. Reading them closely can give you a clue & PMing a reviewer can help if that person is honest with you in the PM.
If all else fails in research, ask POLITELY. I would not recommend asking, "Hey B**** will ya suck my cock?" Only stupid Assholes use an approach like that.
Legally, there is risk when proposing sex in exchange for money. But if the girl is getting naked on stage, she's probably not a cop, don't you think?
Be polite and a little roundabout. I've asked, "Do you ever work outside the club?" and everyone knows what I mean. Inside the club, ask if she would be comfortable with your zipper coming down.
The main risk in requesting extras is that you will pay her more than you have to.
The main risk in requesting extras is that you will pay her more than you have to.
"I've heard about a customer in one club asking a dancer how much for a BJ ... but most dancers were avoiding him after that I believe. "
That's hard to imagine, just because he asked a question. Strippers get nude for a few $$ and LD for a few more $$$. Is it so hard to assume some will do even more for a few more $$$? If you don't ask, you'll never know. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
With the exception of licensed bordellos in Nevada, Yes.
No club is going to hire undercover security just to draw attention on the problems under their own roof. When police try to bust strip clubs they will have officers pose as customers.
2l) thanks GMD. That is the universal way to tell if extra' are available IMHO.
If you feel the need, you can try to subtle about it. If you're just hinting at potential $$$ but not explicitly stating it, I'm pretty sure it's not even completely illegal. Bring it up that way and be more direct as the conversation goes on, depending on how comfortable the girl is with it. And since you're in a strip club anyways, it's not like they're going to report you to the cops. Strip clubs prefer to have as little attention from the cops as possible, and they're certainly not going to want to admit that guys even try to proposition girls for sex in their venue.
I don't usually do VIP unless it's in a club I either know well or have read about on TUSCL. That removes much of risk. Also, for clubs where extras are (often) available, I'll simply ask the girl to tell me about the VIP. This is where a "good time" can be explained by the girl's point of view. More often than not, she simply tells me what's on the menu and how much, and I don't have to ask any direct, and potentially incriminating, question.
It's common for undercover cops to try to get strippers to agree to prostitution so that they can arrest them and bust the club. I've been asked by a few dancers at one club if I was working for the club, so that club has guys try to catch the dancers meeting customers OTC or doing extras ITC and when the club catches them they fire the dancers. That club does that so that they don't get busted by the cops for anything illegal.
It's pretty safe to ask as long as you're discreet and aren't rude about it. I have never heard about a cop working undercover as a stripper, and that's the only way I can imagine you getting into trouble. Most strippers do something illegal, even Stiletto doesn't give her real ID to the clubs where she works, and most club managers know that. They don't want an undercover cop arresting half of their strippers and putting them out of business!
A know a club manager who has his buddies come in as customers and request extras and OTC. The dancers get busted but no legal punishment for the club.
Another form of what samsung 1 just mentioned, is the use of "secret shoppers." I was told by one dancer at a club I frequent that she has been "secret shopped" a few times in her five-year career at that club.
Well if a dancer is going to try to do Extras in a Club that discourages it, she is doing it at risk of her job. she should consequently find a club that doesn't give a shit about Extras happening. Those are out there.
All good advice. Thanks.
I posed the question for two reasons:
A dancer was very concerned that customers were asking her for extras. She said something like "extras are illegal and could get both of us (referring to the dancer and the customer) busted. Who knows if a person is an informant."
I've inquired discretely and politely about extras and never encountered any problems (other than a very rare situation where the dancer told the other dancers to be wary of that customer, he's interested in extras-- well that would include about 90% of the male population).
It did get me thinking that police sometimes pose as street prostitutes and bust johns who proposition them. So what are the risks of some a similar scheme (a bit like entrapment) happening in a strip club. Unless a strip club was under extreme duress (a threat to close the club or arrest the manager), I cannot fathom a situation where it would knowingly allow a LEO to work undercover as a stripper at the club and bust its customers, the very life blood of the club. As is the case with street prostitution, it appears that the dancer might be at greater risk than the customer for being "busted" either by an undercover LEO or a club informant.
In any case, life has risks, some of which can be managed. And most of us break one or more laws at some point in our life (think speeding, jay walking, income tax and more). My rule of thumb is that it is OK to proposition a dancer if the proposition is discrete and polite.
I can't imagine a cop willingly going undercover as a stripper. Standing on a street corner for a couple of hours is one thing. Dancing on stage in the nude, especially in a town where she has to work or live is completely different. I can imagine a club making a deal with the cops and letting the cops watch the hidden cameras in their rooms too, but only if the club owner is trying to get out of something and the cops are willing to let the club owner go and only arrest his customers.
The dancer is right to be cautious. It is likely that an undercover cop will go in and ask for extras in order to arrest the dancer for prostitution and the club manager/owner for running a brothel.
Here in Seattle, while a vigorous raid in 2008 of four clubs owned by the same company was being organized, several dancers already in those clubs turned informant in the few years before the raid to avoid prosecution, effectively working as "undercover cops."
Club-goer:
I heard something about these raids during a recent visit to Seattle. Does that explain why the Deja Vu chain seems to run a disproportionate percentage of the strip clubs in Seattle? Were the "fun" clubs closed down and taken over by corporate owners (Deja Vu) that strive for squeaky clean and boring?
Regarding the dancers turned informants, did they implicate the customers or just the owners and other dancers? What spurred the raids?
Seattle clubs were apparently owned by a mob boss.
electro: there's still fun to be had in Seattle, it's just that there is less ITC, so you have to ask the girls for OTC now. I don't think the OTC action has been hurt at all.
As for Deja-Vu, yeah, they are super lame with their non-stop gimmicks - e.g. "Whoever does the three for $40 special gets a free pass for next time!" Then you find it's also three gimmicks in one. The three songs are shortened. You think the free pass is for the full $20 you need to pay to get in, but it turns out its only for the $10 "admission" - the required $10 "drinks" is still extra. And you might think the pass is good for several months, usually its only good for a couple of weeks.
As for the informants, they were only after the owners, AFAIK. The police interviewed many customers. One was a moderately high named CEO in the area. I think he was the only they threatned charges against.
I didn't hear about any of the girls getting charges with, e.g. drugs or prostitution as a result. The prosecution tried to portray the strippers as victims of the big bad owners. With the one exception I know of, customers were just used to confirm that sex for cash was available.
Thing never went to trial. Close were closed and the owner "coincedentally" died shortly after everything came down and all his clubs were closed.
Pandora's is operated by many of the characters in the management of the old "mob" clubs.
Good times!
Oh yes, during the 2008 crackdown, the police had a (female) officer working undercover in the clubs. She started as a waitress (at Sugar's) and quickly got up there in management.
One evening in a shady part of town I parked my car on the back side of a strip club because the front parking lot was full. When I left there was a girl wearing a short skirt hanging around near my car. After I got in my car she started talking to me. I asked if she was a cop. That seemed to startle her. Based on the way she jumped or got alarmed I figured out it probably wasn't an undercover sting. Sherlock Homes at work, lol.
Wow, I'm kinda surprised that someone would really be concerned about this. I mean, geez, you really think you're gonna ask some dancer for a BJ and suddenly the lights will come up and a squad of cops will surround you and some news guy with a camera crew will get in your face and ask why you're being a very naughty boy?
When you go into a club, you pretty much know if it's an extras club, right? And even if it isn't, you think a club owner is gonna join forces with the local cops to nab an naughty customer, and in doing so say goodbye to his club? Which of us would want to go to a club where they do that? Something like that hits the news and you might as well just close the doors and go home.
"Live at 10, local strip club and local police team up to nab customers in sex sting". I don't think so....
Dude, man up and don't worry about it.
Dougster:
It took a bit of research but I did discover Pandoras on my visit to Seattle. It looks like the 2008 raid shut down some of the more interesting strip clubs in Seattle but the dancers found a new home. I posted a review of Pandoras.
Jerikson: Based on my experience, I assumed that the risk of propositioning a dancer for ITC extras is minimal but one way to get an assessment of risk (beyond your own experience) is to ask others for their experience. It appears that the Seattle busts focused on the owners and did not result in any legal action against customers but that does not mean that the customers who were named and interviewed did not experience significant "hassle."
I got a chuckle out of your image of the lights going up and cops descending on a strip club customer who asks for extras---- but note that is what can happen to a "customer" who propositions an under cover LEO on the streets--rare but it does happen.
By the way, if you click on my user name and scan the clubs that I've reviewed you'll note that I've reviewed a number of Detroit area clubs--- possibly the best collection of ITC-friendly clubs in the states.
