Do you care how much goes to the girl vs. the club?

Bones, that clearly refutes the argument that dancers are only in it for the money. I agree that money is important. But so are a lot of other things. A lot of girls seem more than willing to give up an awful lot, including money, to work in a fancy upscale place. I think a lot of clubs take advantage of that.

I generally don't know if I'm on the road, so I don't care so much. It has been a long time since I've been a regular at any club other than the DC ones that take a tipout, but no more since there are no private dances. The part that does bug me about the clubs that take a big cut are the ones where you have to buy the dance from the manager rather than the girl. Kind of kills the mood for me, and also kills any chance for negotiations other than tips, so in that sense I care. They ought to charge a stage fee or a flat tipout, and let the girls deal with the rest.

Bones, looks like you had quite a trip last weekend. If I ever find myself driving north from Austin Texas, I'll know where to stop. I'll also avoid Texarcana. Have you ever been to San Antonio clubs? That's where I lost my lapdance cherry years ago. I then hit almost every club in the Houston Richmond/Westheimer corridor as part of the same trip. From what I hear Houston clubs are rivling Tampa for mileage in recent years.

Bones, what I find both puzzling and sad is that many dancers will only work at the fanciest clubs. And these are the clubs that treat them the worst. But I don't worry too much about the health care and similar stuff, most of these girls don't claim much income so they qualify for all kinds of public assistance. One dancer I knew well was making lots of money and living in subsidized housing which she clearly didn't qualify for. If they've been around a while they know how to work the system. Our tax dollars at work.

Good qustion, Minnow, but I don't think it really applies to this particular situation. This place has laps that cost $30 and are pretty lame - they're fully clothed and you have to sit on your hands. The girls get to keep all the money and some will go for less (on Wednesdays they run a $20 special and I've had girls offer that on other days too) but they don't sell many for obvious reasons. The whole point of high prices for lame dances is to force guys to buy one of their several VIP rooms, which start at $150 or so per half hour. And they're pretty good but not fantastic, bouncers kep a close eye on the action. And the house takes a big cut so the girls expect a good-sized tip. If I were going there once in awhile to spend an evening and some serious time with a girl without caring how much I spent, that would be OK. But I was in the habit of stopping by fairly regularly for a short time and having lunch with my girl. A couple LDs would have been nice too but not at those prices. So to partially answer your question, if they had good LDs at reasonable prices I'd still be a loyal customer, regardless of what the split was. I'd rather get the laps and not the VIP, because the girl gets to keep the LD money, but the laps are purposely lame and not worth it even at $20. So I just tipped the girl for her time and skipped the private dances, which she didn't much like.

I think that, like many GC's, this club caters primarily to special occasions - bachelor parties and such - and doesn't much care about other customers. Unfortunately that really hurts their dancers, who unless they have some rich regulars don't do very well the rest of the week. I think it's really sad because this place could do so much better. Part of the reason I generally avoid GC's. I much prefer a friendly neighborhood titty bar that doens't play these rip-off games.

I agree that happy employees= good customer service. I am not 1 to ask dancers what their "cut" is , or how much house fee they have to pay. I am, however, very cognizant of high cover charges, drink prices, and dance prices. Ditto for such ploys as clipped songs, and drink hustle. If there's smoke in 1 area, there's bound to be a fire in another area. Question primarily directed to FONDL, but all welcome to answer: If club dropped lapdance price by $5, but also reduced dancers cut by $5, would you be happy about buying more dances? Why or why not?

At my regular club, I never get upstairs VIP dances, because $5 out of every $25 dance goes to the club, and a "bird dog" keeps a count of everybody's dances and, so I've heard, arbitrarily won't allow couples to sit out more than one song at a time. The fact that somebody is counting dances and intruding on our break time would bother me as much as the $5.

At most clubs I go to, the girl keeps everything and her stage fees and tipout are independent of what I pay her. That's not the reason I go there, but I don't think it's a coincidence that they are the clubs I like best. I agree with what others have said about the simplicity of stage fees vs. a per dance cut making for happier dancers and a more hassle-free operation. I also like to feel I'm in control of where my money is going. All that said, when I'm travelling, my focus is more like Minnow's, and I may never find out a club's behind-the-scenes policies. In fact, if I were to visit my home club while on the road, I'd probably opt for the $25 dances, which the girls tell me are really quite good.

FONDL: Your last post speaks volumes about who has the power in strip clubs. I might add that, if I where in your position I would have done the same thing, minus the post cause nobody gives a shit.

Very much so. The better I know the girl the more I want to see her make a nice income. Last year I stopped going to a the club that I had been going to regularly because they raised VIP room prices and the house kept all of the increase. I had been taking a girl (the same one) into VIP each time I visited the club but after the price increase I stopped doing so. And since it wasn't as much fun anymore and she sort of resented it, I eventually stopped going entirely. I posted a goodby letter on their web site chat board expalining why I wouldn't be back (there were other reasons too) and they erased it. Now that's what I call listening to your customer.

Another followup: Would it matter for a regular club near home where you return to see favorite dancers more than for when you're travelling?

I think that most of the better clubs have a flat fee that they charge the dancer for dancing there. Like $50 per day and that way it isn't such a hassle of figuring out who made what, who's cheating, etc. Plus the VIP fees and all the drink and door fees goes to the clubs.
I think that having a $35 dance and knowing that the club is getting $15 of it would bother me.

No, don't ask, nor am I interested in knowing. I'm focussed on how much fun I can have for my $. Really now, if I can have more fun in a club that has $20 dances but charges $5 to get into LD area vs a club with flat $25 dances, I'll choose the former every time. That said, if club plays "squeeze the turnip" too hard, they'll run out of turnips.

I'm not familiar enough with any clubs that take a cut from each dance to know: Don't they also charge dancers stage fees? It's always pointed out that clubs get their share one way or another. In this case, they're taking both ways.

Wow, I thought my browser ate that first post....

I agree that the girls routinely having sex with customers, either inside or outside the club, is a small minority and probably always will be. I just think it's increasing, in part because it's the only way some girls are going to be able to make much money, it's harder for dancers to make money these days. But I agree that such encounters will probably never become widespread (no pun intended), danger being one reason why.

It would be interesting to speculate, though, what percentage of dancers have ever had sex with a customer OTC. Maybe I'll start a new thread.

FONDL: I have had OTC encounters and they have all included sex. I have also talked to dancer friends who have agreed to them thinking they would just be dancing and wound up either pissing the guy off or, in one case, fighting the guy off. I'm not talking about a lunch date here or coffee. I'm talking about a dancer agreeing to see a customer OTC to dance for him-either at his place or in a hotel room. If you don't expect sex that's fine, I'd say that puts you in the minority. Most of the dancers I know won't take the risk. Being alone with a guy rather than in a club surrounded by other people is, as you can probably guess, a fairly dangerous undertaking.

I agree there are more girls having sex in the clubs but it's still no where near a majority of dancers. Some do have sex both ITC and OTC and some only do it in the clubs. The girls that only have sex in the club are generally staying ITC for their own safety.

Yoda, I agree that many customers will expect sex from an OTC encounter. Not sure about most though, I never did. But it seems to me that customers are increasingly expecting much the same thing inside the club, especially with higher prices. I think there are already a lot of OTC encounters taking place. It certainly sounds like most of us have had them.

FONDL: I have had OTC encounters and they have all included sex. I have also talked to dancer friends who foolishly agreed to them thinking they would just be dancing and wound up either pissing the guy off or, in one case, fighting the guy off. I'm not talking about a lunch date here or coffee. I'm talking about a dancer agreeing to see a customer OTC to dance for him. If you don't expect sex that's fine, that put you in the minority. Most of the dancers I know won't take the risk. Being alone with a guy rather than in a club surrounded by other people is, as you can probably guess, a fairly dangerous undertaking.

I know of some clubs where the "house", as they call it, is as much as one-hundred dollars a day collected from each dancer there. So, if you get say 50 girls dancing at a club, the establishment can collect $5,000.00 per day+entry fees and overpriced drinks.
I think I need to start my own strip club!!!

Casualguy: That's a big part of my problem with it too-the strict dance count. A new club opened in Providence about five years ago. They had comfy sofas and chairs all over the club and in the PD area. Dancers where not charged a per dance fee and "couch time" was a negotiable item. I used to spend a pretty fair amount of cash in this place, it was a good setup. The dancers could negotiate their own deals and did very well for themselves. About two years ago the club initiated a per song fee and business dropped dramatically. Many of the more popular dancers left for another club that wasn't (and still isn't) charging a per dance fee. The day shift at this club is now about half as busy as it used to be and the number of dancers on the day shift is about half of what it was as well.

No I don't like it. One club that I have visited charges 35 for the1stdance. The girl still gets her 20dollars but she could have had another dance from a customer if the club wasn't taking 15dollars out of the 1stdance. It's not the customer or the dancer's fault the can't sell alcohol in the county so why punish us?

Going back to the original question, not really. The club is going to get their cut no matter what. If getting a lapdance is a financial transaction, then what the girl does with the money earned from the lapdance isn't really my business. Their obligations aren't my obligations.

The main reason I would care is because I feel like the time and exact dance count is probably strictly enforced if the club is getting a cut for every dance and/or song. I tend to avoid getting dances in those kinds of clubs. I like it when a dancer can drop the dance price down to get more dances from me. She makes more money by not walking around looking for someone who wants a dance and I get cheaper priced dances. Clubs forcing dance prices up by charging per dance is a lose lose proposition I believe.

I really don't see that happening other than with girls who are ready to move into escorting-two of the last three escorts I've seen regularly have been ex-dancers. OTC is a different animal. Most customers assume and expect sex with an OTC encounter. What I have noticed in my area is the dancers migrating to the clubs that don't take a per dance cut.

I agree with Yoda that increasing house fees are killing business in a lot of clubs. The girls are getting squeezed. They're getting pissed and their customers are getting pissed. I think it's going to convince more and more girls to meet their best customers OTC where there are no house fees.

Yes it matters. In fact the policy of taking a cut (and too much of a cut) is a huge part of what is killing business in the Providence clubs right now. What used to be my favorite club now charges $30 per dance of which the house gets $10. The dancers have been getting the same $20 for years but the club's surcharge has killed business and made it tougher for girls to sell dances.
I spend most of my time now in a couple of Mass clubs that allow less contact but do not take a per-dance cut. It not only costs me less but also tends to make the dancers a lot less conscious of counting songs-making them and me much more relaxed.

Yes it matters to me, and the more I know and like the girl the more it matters. When I'm with a regular I try to spend my money in a way that maximizes her take and minimizes the club's. And that usually means spending less and tipping more. But one way or another the club always takes a cut so that part of it doesn't bother me. Either the girls pay to work there directly or via tipout, or they have to sell a certain number of drinks, or the house gets a cut of their dance money. I don't know of any club that doesn't take something from the girls one way or another.