OTC sex

Sexkitten: It's the polite ones you have to watch out for.

Sad that the pathetic losers of TUSCL think that dating/fucking strippers is nothing more than a lottery process.

Well, I've said it before, but any stripper with any brains is going to assume that any guy she meets in the club wants to do her, and that the OTC "dates" after her shift where he tries to convince her he likes her as a person are just the prelude to getting in her pants. Any guy who thinks he can pick up a stripper because of his winning personality and good looks or because he's different than all those other 50 guys a night that try the same thing is setting himself up as an ATM on those "dates". That being said, I've done the after shift drinks and dinner, and been reasonably good friends with some of my favorites, but I never forget that where and how we met greatly complicates the whole trust issue and the possibility for a normal relationship or friendship. As for guys who do date strippers, you are braver than I, and probably have a better rap too.

All of the above, while I feel it is true, is a generalization, so no literalists need to tell me I'm oversimplifying or generalizing. I know I am. It's a guideline, not a universal truth. Like saying you'll never his the lottery. Well that is very likely true, but someone does so while the chances are slim people do sometimes get lucky. If you want to play the lottery, go ahead, it's fun and you get to fantasize about what you'd do with all that money. Just don't break the bank doing it or let yourself count on the lottery as your retitrement plan.

I've met guys after work from strip clubs either to hang out because we got along (no sex) or just to get to know them better, because I was attracted to them. no money involved. Unfortunately, none of these goons were interested in a serious relationship, just sex. So, I'd get rid of them.

Sorry Chandler, I was only joking. I've never had a dancer make a serious attempt to take me for all she could get. There were couple, though, who I kept wishing they would give it a try, that could be fun.

Hey, FONDL, careful about knockin' my fave. I don't think she's being any more deceptive than a typical dancer is inside a club. She doesn't milk them for more once they get ideas. Give her credit for that much.

As for dessert, I told her if we went to dinner, I'd pick up the check and no more but she'd better put out. She laughed but she knew I was only half joking.

Bones, in my experience the girls giving you their cel phone number are mostly hoping that you'll return and they want you to be able to call to find out when they are working. I don't think that's normally an offer for sex even if they say it is, they're often just leading you on.

Chandler, I should have said that if I were paying a girl $500 to have dinner with me I'd expect it to include dessert (lol). I've never had an experience like that but I'm guessing there's often plenty of deception on both sides - him leading her to believe that he isn't interested in sex, her leading him to believe that eventually it might be available. They deserve each other.

Chandler, I agree with you, I'm sure that happens, and I'm sure that most of the guys who do something like that are hoping to get sex. If I gave the impression that I disagree with you, I'm sorry. The only point I tried to make is that I've never done that. I've never offered to pay for a girl to have lunch or dinner with me, I just gave some of them a little money, more like gas money or what it cost them to hire a baby sitter, never anything remotely close to $500. My lunch or dinner get-togethers were more of the friendly variety. If a girl asked in advance for $400-500 or even half that to have dinner with me, I'd say no thanks. Or I'd expect more than just dinner too. I have no argument with you. We're talking about two very different things.

FONDL: That's why I said it was a category you left out. (Duh!) I often hear about these affairs from the girls, but you can read about the men's point of view sometimes on internet boards, although not this one. I'm glad that's not your story, FONDL, because it's not a pretty one.

(Oh, God, here we go again.)

FONDL: Money is certainly relevant for the girl in the encounters I'm talking about. One of my faves tells me she has regulars who pay her $400-$500 to take her to dinner. She won't agree to it for anything less. She says every single one of them, after a few dinner dates, gets around to wanting sex, and she has to end it. I hardly think a "friendly lunch or dinner get together" describes that.

Chandler, I'm very familiar with that scenario, that's how my ATF and I started out. I don't think I specified whether or not money changed hands in the lunch/dinner encounters because I don't think it's very relevant. But I disagree with you a little on one point, I think there are a lot of older married guys out there who are just looking for companionship with no sex involved when out of town, and they don't mind paying a little for it especially if they're on an expense account. I'm like that and I don't really think I'm all that unique. If you travel a lot you get tired of eating alone, going to a nice restaurant is much more fun with a pretty girl by your side, and if the girl would like a little compensation for her time I have no problem with that - I view it as an incentive for her to do it again.

FONDL: A major category left out in your 3-way breakdown a few posts back is paid non-sexual OTC outings: dinner dates, shopping trips, etc. I'm constantly hearing about this in many forms and activities, usually with much older men. With the major dollars some guys blow, they obviously hold at least some hope of it leading to sex. They may start out denying it, but eventually they all push for it. Since no sex ever takes place, this is probably the wrong topic to go into it.

There's an article in my morning newspaper about a Philadelphia stripper pleading guilty to 5 counts of prostitution and related offenses - she was apparently arranging "dates" for other girls, one of whom (age 17)died from a cocaine overdose while on an arranged date. How'd you like to be in that customer's shoes?

Strippers have casual sex, and or, date customers.

All the time.

Bones, I suspect we've all had a similar experience.

Chandler, I guess I was combining the two. I sometimes think of a one-night stand as dating because until you do it you don't always know if it's going to be a one-night stand or not. I can see where they're different, but I can also see where the casual sex encounter could lead to dating, or at least there's that possibility. I know of one case where what started out as a one-nighter ended up with them living together for a short while. And another case with the same dancer where it simply was a one-nighter although it lasted all night. Sounds like you think that the one-nighter is more common than actual continued dating. You're probably right.

FONDL, "actually dating a customer once in a great while because they really like them" still sounds like traditional dating to me. By casual sex, I mostly mean leaving the club to fuck a guy she may barely know because she feels like fucking and he's in the right place at the right time. That happens a lot.

Chandler, I agree that I've waffled on the question. Seems to me there are three failry common ways of getting together with a dancer OTC: a friendly lunch or dinner together with no expectation of anything else happening, which my own experience would indicate is pretty common; hiring out for sex, which I think very few dancers do; and actually dating a customer once in a great while because they really like them. It's this last category that I'm curious about because I have no idea how common it is. All I know is that an awful lot of dancers claim they never do it, but the ones I've known really well did. It's that kind of anomaly that I find interesting, and I was curious to know if anyone else has any insight on this type of behavior. In virtually every other field, dating people from work, either customers or co-workers, has become increasingly common. Is that also true of strip clubs?

FONDL: You've posed the question several different ways. I thought by specifying "getting together socially because she's strongly attracted to him", you were now limiting it to more traditional dating that just happens to lead to sex. Moreover, you've indicated before that this is the only kind of sex that you don't consider paid for in one form or another. Pardon me if I misread you.

In any event, there's always a first time, so dancers who have never done it are just as much "in play" as far as I'm concerned.

Chandler, I don't understand the point you're trying to make. Exclude what? Casual sex with a customer for fun without any money changing hands is mainly what I'm talking about - I think a lot of dancers have done that at one time or another and that it's probably more common than paid sex with a dancer. Maybe I should be asking the question the other way around - how many dancers have never had sex with a customer they met in their club? I think a lot have and mostly for free but that's just a guess based on a very small sample. I'm asking if anyone else has an opinion about it.

FONDL, why only that scenario? When dancers talk about dating, they don't just mean hey let's go to a movie, and what do you know if eventually some night, oops, you're in bed. They usually mean casual sex. Exclude that and your percentages drop sharply.

Yoda: "FONDL: I've done it three times - no money involved - in over 20 years of clubbing and hundreds of dancers that I've known."

What the fuck? Back in November Yoda was claiming 12 times. Now it's revised down to three? Fucking lying sack of shit.

Guys, I was just sitting around on a rainy day and got to thinking about some of the paradoxes of life, isn't that allowed? Every dancer who I've ever known claimed that she has an iron-clad rule that she never dates customers (and you hear the same thing all the time on the Pink site.) And yet most of the handful of girls that I've known really well broke that rule every once in a while. My sample is by no means scientific since nearly all the girls that I've known well were young and single (although the one who dated the most often was married.) I was just curious if others have observed anything similar with the dancers who you've known well. I'm not talking about getting together for lunch or dinner or meeting at a motel for $$$, I'm talking about a dancer getting together socially with a customer about her own age OTC because she's strongly attracted to him, no money exchanged, and ending up in bed together. I think the percentage who have done that at least once is quite high. Just my guess based on the few girls I've known really well.

Gee, everybody's suddenly gripped by curiousity about percentages. My thinking on this one is the same as Lopaw's on the bisexuality question. Thay ALL do it. What would be the point of assuming anything less? (...he asked rhetorically.)

FONDL: I've done it three times - no money involved - in over 20 years of clubbing and hundreds of dancers that I've known. I'm sure there are lots of guys with higher batting averages and probably lots with lower ones. I don't really understand why a percentage is all that important to you. Are you trying to figure out where you stand?

Once knew a dancer that met a guy in the club. She eventually gave up her apartment and moved in with him. They were together about two years. However, she recently moved out.

Despite what strippers will initially tell you, it's at least 50%.

Try this experiment: ask them when you first meet them then try asking them later. Or ask strippers how many of the "other girls" have done it. Or ask waitresses.