What is rape?

avatar for shadowcat
shadowcat
Atlanta suburb
The Obama administration on Friday broadened the definition of the crime of rape to include more forms of sexual assaults such as rape of men and oral or anal sex, the first major revision to the definition in more than 80 years.

The new definition will include any gender of the victim and attacker and also assaults in which a victim cannot give consent because the individual has been incapacitated by drugs or alcohol, is under the age of consent, or is mentally or physically incapable of consent, the Justice Department said.

Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent in the new definition, NBC reported.

"This long-awaited change to the definition of rape is a victory for women and men across the country whose suffering has gone unaccounted for over 80 years," Vice President Joe Biden said in a statement.

While reports of rape to authorities are likely to rise, the Justice Department said that will only reflect more accurate reporting rather than the number of actual attacks increasing.

"This new, more inclusive definition will provide us with a more accurate understanding of the scope and volume of these crimes," Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement.

A rape every 6.2. minutes, data show
Based on reports from law enforcement authorities, the FBI estimated in 2010 that there were almost 85,000 forcible rapes under the old definition, the latest raw data available, and that one occurs in the United States every 6.2 minutes.

Preliminary FBI statistics show that the forcible rape rate declined 5.1 percent in the first half of 2011 compared to the same period of the previous year.

The administration said this expansive definition more accurately tracks rapes but will not change state or federal laws used to prosecute rape, most of which already incorporate the more expansive definitions, NBC reported Friday.

"All victims of these horrendous crimes deserve justice and should have access to the comprehensive services that will help them rebuild their lives," said Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.), chairman of the Judiciary Committee.

For years, interest groups have been pushing for a change in the definition of forcible rape, which since 1927 was defined as the carnal knowledge of a woman, forcibly and against her will. That included penetration of a woman's vagina, but excluded oral or anal penetration and the rape of men.

The new definition is: "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."

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avatar for Otto22
Otto22
13 years ago
After 80 years it is about time that we brought this definition into a modern context. What is lacking here, for perspective, is the reality that a large percentage of rapes occur in prisons between inmates. These are never included in national statistics because the feminists and their DOJ stooges have a different agenda. We men gain a better sensitivity to forcible sex acts when we consider that, in the right prison, we could be prime targets.
avatar for canny
canny
13 years ago
@Otto22 You mean in any prison, right?

I mostly agree, but I'm concerned about the "I was drunk, I didn't mean yes......" getting someone convicted.
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
13 years ago
If at all in doubt, DON'T engage in a Sexual act. This is especially true if intoxication is involved or if one or both parties are under the influence of illicit Drugs.
avatar for JuiceBox69
JuiceBox69
13 years ago
Ya....I'm fucked !
avatar for Book Guy
Book Guy
13 years ago
I approve of changes that update the definition of wrongdoing, to be more in line with reality and with our present understandings of psychology. But I'm not happy with the fact that one (unintended?) consequence of this change may be, that even more people end up in jail. We incarcerate much too often, and much too ineffectively, in the USA. If we really are serious about getting crime off of the streets, we need to get some sense about modern penal understandings and just stop throwing time-time-time at the problem. It won't go away so simply.
avatar for gatorfan
gatorfan
13 years ago
Who comes up with these definitions?
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
I do believe the new definitions suck. Apparently I've been raped several times per the new definitions but I enjoyed every minute of it. Of course since I was intoxicated, I would not be able to clearly state what was going on because intoxicated people have no say anymore using the same reasoning. I believe the girls I was with were intoxicated too so everything we did must have been a figment of our imagination.
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
First Obama signs into law a bill letting our government detain without trial up to forever any American if they define the individual using the term terrorist which is of course subject to be redefined. Now this new definition for what is rape. I wonder what would happen if a massive alien fleet showed up later this year over DC and they said we were all illegal aliens and terrorists for invading what they clearly defined as their planet thousands of years ago? I guess if they practiced law like our current administration, they could just start rounding everyone up because we are all terrorists because we live on Earth.
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
Of course if one argues intoxicated is not the same thing as incapacitated, then I'll say that is only a simple redefining away.
avatar for sanitago
sanitago
13 years ago
new definition makes sense: if a person, no matter what their sex, is forced to have sex, it's rape.
so what's the problem?
avatar for Ghostbuster360
Ghostbuster360
13 years ago
Some of these change were put in place in the military under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. There are already complaints that this shifted the burden of proof to the defendant, in violation of the 5th Amendment of the Constitution. It will be interesting to see how that pans out on appeal.
avatar for Clubber
Clubber
13 years ago
Otto,

"...in the right prison..." So you think getting butt fucked makes it the right prison? Man, that would be way wrong for me!

The below pretty much sums it up right at the beginning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWOn1dFmF…
avatar for rh48hr
rh48hr
13 years ago
Good to see the definition updated to protect everyone.
avatar for deogol
deogol
13 years ago
I agree with the changes except for the whole drunk thing. I also think the drunk thing is about increasing prison guard unions, additional funding for police, more money for lawyers, etc. It's getting a little corrupt around this country these days.
avatar for Electronman
Electronman
13 years ago
I think the update is long overdue and appropriate. Of course, the "devil's in the details" and it will be interesting to see how "consent" is defined and assessed. Notice that consent is the key--- if consent is not given then it is rape. If consent is given (presumably freely and between two adults) then any sex act is legal as long as both parties have consented.

In theory, consent can cover a continuum that ranges from passive consent (failing to express any objection, assuming of course that the person is capable of expressing an objection) to formalized active consent (signing a legal document that grants consent). It will become even more complicated when you also have to determine if consent was freely given and if the person is capable of consenting (this is where intoxication and even mental capacity may become an issue).

For example, it might be possible to get someone to consent to sex by threatening to kill or injure that person unless they "consented" to sex and followed through with the sex-- and sex under those conditions would probably qualify for rape. Of course, that would be an example of "consent" that was not freely given--it was coerced by threats of bodily harm.

Now consider several other examples of possible "coercion"-- would it be coercive to pay someone a million dollars to have sex? Before you say "sign me up" or "no, you can't coerce a person with money" ask why not-- what if the person being offered the million dollars was impoverished, had no skills (other than sex) and had bills to pay or a child to feed. Does that begin to feel more "coercive" in that it would be difficult or impossible for the person to say no to the offer of money for sex. Said another way, it is may be possible to coerce with "positive" means, not just negative means.

If that it is possible to coerce consent with positive means, then it opens the question of what other strategies might be used to "coerce" consent? If you agree that the million dollars for sex borders on "coercive" then is there a price point (say $100?) where it doesn't feel so coercive? Does the label "coercion" still apply if we're talking about paying a person minimum wage for performing some other type of service besides sex, say working at a fast food restaurant.

Finally, is it possible to coerce consent with means other than money or threats of physical harm. For example, what if a person offers marriage (or physical and emotional support) in exchange for sex or if a person threatens to file for divorce unless there is implicit or explicit consent for sex? Is consent truly given in either of these examples?

The point is that "consent" is the key to the new definition and this is not a simple concept especially when you have to consider the full range of ways that a person can be motivated to consent and whether the person was truly capable of consenting or refusing to consent.

In my opinion, the revised definition is still an appropriate update. But, as I said above, the devil is in the details and case law will be needed to clarify the definition of consent. This revision should make for interesting discussions about how we define rape and consent.

Now if we could just open the door for the decriminalization of prostitution? But that's for another discussion thread.
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
I was thinking for example I'm in a club and I had a little bit too much to think clearly. Some girl offers to take me in the back somwhere and tells me to relax. She's going to massage me and massage me and make me feel better. I feel her hands at one point move towards my private area and wonder if she's going to massage that too. Suddenly I get surprised and she is sucking away. Is it rape because I didn't have any say in the matter? Is it not rape if I don't complain but enjoy it? Is it rape anyway because I could not in my right mind consent even if I wanted to because I could not think clearly? It's all these fuzzy areas where I think trouble could come from. Of course I have never heard of a guy complaining about getting a free bj. I guess if he was married or got an std he could claim he was raped and hurt.
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
I guess in the example I gave, the dancer to be fair to the guy, should be prepared to go all the way when he isn't intoxicated. Maes sense to me. :)
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
makes sense, darn ipad skips letters if I turn off the auto incorrect feature.
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
Apple should never have autocorrect active when typing in a stock symbol on a brokerage account. I actually saw autocorrect change the etf I typed in to the opposite etf symbol. A triple leveraged etf at that as well. I noticed though.
avatar for Alucard
Alucard
13 years ago
"Suddenly I get surprised and she is sucking away. Is it rape because I didn't have any say in the matter? Is it not rape if I don't complain but enjoy it? Is it rape anyway because I could not in my right mind consent even if I wanted to because I could not think clearly?"

I suppose you could press charges if you wished. The $64,000,000 question is DO YOU WANT TO?!?
avatar for JuiceBox69
JuiceBox69
13 years ago
What is sex ? We should ask mr. Clinton ?
avatar for sharkhunter
sharkhunter
13 years ago
I was drinking so obviously I do not remember. Dancers can rest assured that out of millions of guys visiting strip clubs, no guy in his right mind would argue for any sexual harassment charges against a dancer when he went there to have fun in the first place. Unless she really injured him seriously. But then that would be assault charges I believe. Have Fun!
avatar for canny
canny
13 years ago
The potential land mine in the update to the definition of rape is someone regretting what they did the next day when they're sober. I can see someone getting picked up at a bar, going home with that person and having consensual sex with them and then regretting it in the morning and pressing rape charges because they were "too drunk" to consent to the sex even if they were drinking my beverage of choice at the bar, which is water, and were stone cold sober.
avatar for inno123
inno123
13 years ago
Read it again folks, nobody is going to get arrested and go to jail because of the new definition of rape. The new definition only has to do with the reporting to the national database. Because state laws differ what one state calls rape another might call sexual assault or something else. So the feds have to create definitions so that state-to-state comparisons of crime statistics are meaningfull.
avatar for Clubber
Clubber
13 years ago
inno,

Would be nice if the "feds" used OUR money for something meaningful, rather than some meaningless often "doctored" statistics!
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