Nice girls finish last...

And on the same note don't text a customer to come see you only to find out that you have also texted 10 other customers as well so that when we show up you are not available for hours. If you have asked a customer to come in, it's not fair to expect him/her to wait around for you for a long period of time. If a dancer asked me to come in and I saw that she was busy with someone else, you better believe that I will find someone else to keep me company. Fair is fair.

I find you always get burned if you assume strippers have feelings. They'll just try and use any compassion you show against you. So just treat 'em like the whores they are!

Maybe he felt you could 'make it on your own' today not because you're an attractive blonde, but because you were already with another guy and didn't make yourself free for him even though you guys had already arranged for dances.

" In both the world of adult entertainment and real life I have found that being a tall attractive blonde is sometimes a liability"

With me it is in a way, unless you are QUITE a BIG flirt & make a VERY, VERY great 1st impression. Why, because I just find shorter women MORE attractive & I don't find women with Blonde hair as attractive as women with Darker Hair. On a side-by-side comparison of two similar Dancers - one with Blonde Hair & another with Dark Hair - I'll go for the Dark Hair EVERY time.

P.S. Just IGNORE Dougster.

No, ignore Alucard.

Now since I know none of the parties, this could be completely off. However, suppose client b did wait for you, and after an hour or so you swing by his table. But at this point he has to leave soon for an appointment later that day, so he informs you that he can't stay much longer. 15 minutes later, another regular walks in and you quickly excuse yourself to attend to the new guy since client b is leaving soon anyway. In this scenario, client b may feel like his time and money are being taken for granted and switch entertainers. So it's possible that you lucked out in the given scenario. As I said, I don't know anyone involved, but personally, I get bored waiting around for specific dancers.

If client 'B' had a scheduled time with a dancer and the dancer did not honor that time (which is not what happened, assuming your post included all the details), then client 'B' has every right to spend the money he would have spent on dancer 'A' on dancer 'B'. And client 'B' shouldn't feel even a twinge of guilt about it. Many of the guys who buy dances earn more per hour than a dancer - and if a dancer wastes the clients time, the dancer is risking the possibility that a once regular client will be a client no more. I feel this is a two-way street, as well. If the client stiffs or is late arriving for the dancer, then the client is at fault.

Welcome avalons, I would have to say, even though he has made arrangements with you, unless there was a specific time set upon, if he comes in and sees you with another customer he has no idea how long you might be. The other dancer is probably just a warmup getting ready for you.

The other posters have hit it. If I showed up and the dancer I wanted to see is tied up, I'll wait a reasonable time (depending on how much time I have that day). If I walked in with X amount to spend and I think that my main dancer will be occupied indefinitely, I will spend X on the fall-back girl. It has nothing to do with stiffing statuesque blondes. I did have an ATF who would come over and tell me what was up and she could successfully juggle a few regulars at one time, kind of like a plate spinner.

I've found some clubs are regular oriented - less girls, less stages, more booth-couch space, less hard sells, etc and some are party oriented - more girls, more stages, more tables, and more hard sells. At the party spots it's good to catch a dancer early or set a time, as not to waste either of your times.

Did A then think B was an ITC stalker?

@alucard (hair color comment) and looneylarry: I agree with both of you.

Related to this thread, I would add that I don't really appreciate it when a dancers texts or calls me after she is already at work asking me to come in. That's a dead giveaway, that club business is slow, or just she's not getting dances, and is probably calling several customers asking them to come in. I much prefer that if a dancer wants to see me, that she contacts me before she arrives at the club. It's personal and meaningful that way.

Just fyi
I went to the club to see dancer # 1 and started to have a good conversaion and was getting ready to have some dances when an older gent, a regular's regular with connections at the club walks in: "I'm sorry honey, I've got to see this guy - I'll be back" says # 1. "No you won't" says I. "I'm sorry sweety" says #1.
OK-it's a business after all; and since I'm there with some cash and my plan is non-existent, I find some other dancers and wind up leaving in an hour or so. I'm not really happy but there are days like that, right?
Chapter 2: I go back to this club about 3 weeks later and #1 reams me out for getting dances from other women the previous time. I'm still mystified but not so much to prevent me from patronizing a different SC. A lot of what you describe is perspective. Look from your side and then try to look from mine. I recognize it's a business but that doesn't give license to have it both ways.
And yes there probably is a level of intimidation for whatever primative reason that was hardwired in males back in pre-history.

@avalons07...Regarding talking with 1 dancer to make another dancer jealous...I just don't buy it...If I'm in a club sitting there all alone with nothing to do (while waiting for my fav to finish her stage show for instance), it is sometimes very hard to damn near impossible for me to prevent other girls from coming up to me to talk. And since I tend to enjoy talking to dancers and am not very good at telling them to go immediately go away, especially if they are attractive, I sometimes end up making my fav wait a bit until I can make it clear I'm not interested and can free up. Its usually only a few minutes. It isn't case of me trying to make someone jealous...I am not nearly that clever..I'm just being friendly and respectful to the other dancer...and I can't stop them from approaching me. I think most dancers are aware enough to understand there is no bad intent here.

Lets be real....its all about the money. I have my ATF, when I visit, I come to see and spend time with her. If she is busy making cash from some dude, I get it. Its all about the money. Nothing personal, but the more dudes she "sees" the more money she makes. period. Get off your period and get over it. I try to show up early, don't ever want to be the "last visitor", but hey, its a strip bar.

Men are largely visually driven creatures, but attitude makes a huge difference here too. There is a huge air of entitlement in the poster's lead in here. I have never, ever been drawn to the statuesque blonde for several reasons:
1. I've personally known a dozen statuesque blondes in my life, and more than half are terrible people. My issue, not yours.
2. Tall girls make me feel short. I'm 5'11, so while not tall, I'm no shrimp. Put a 5'10 girl in 5" heels and all the sudden I'm Frodo Baggins.
3. I'm drawn to women that have that girl next door or "achievable" characteristic. Can't put my finger on what that translates to physically, but a really tall, lithe blonde it is not.

Also, the previous commenters are right on point. You don't come to work just for me. If I come to see you but you make me wait, you've chosen not to make me a priority. That's fine, cash is king and I'm not special. Don't be upset when I find someone else who DOES treat me as their priority.

It's a two way street. Sometimes, nice guys finish last.

I think Client B was very disrespectful to you, Avalons07. Imagine the nerve of this guy talking to, much less buying a dance from, another girl, when he was supposed to be there to see you!!

Here's what I would have done in that situation - First I would repeatedly circle the two of you as you sat having a drink - this circling would continue for at least 30 minutes. I would then follow you as you went into the VIP room and station myself in a position where I could leer over the two of you for nearly an hour. At some point I would start sending waitresses into the VIP room to inquire as to whether you would be out anytime soon.

So, can I be your stalker, er, I mean regular?

steve229, come on down to Columbia sometime when shadowcat is there. He'll introduce you. Avalon is beautiful. I've never felt intimidated by her, she is nice and it is always a fun time talking with her. Welcome to TUSCL, Avalon.

Avalon,

Next time you come down south to South Florida, if you do, I'll show you I'm not intimidated! :)

It kind of reminds me of that South Park episode "Bebe's Boobs Destroy Society" when all the boys go into that primate mode ala 2001. Except it's the girls that are competing.

I don't have an ATF at my club but I do have what I call an 'A-list.' A-list meaning that if one (or more) of these girls is in the club, I'll want to get private dances from her before the night is over. The list is short (about 5 girls) and my resources limited so sometimes I just have to turn down a couple. Since it's a small club these girls know who I am and know my situation...and know who they're competing with (I'm a creature of habit). During a recent visit, on an announced private dance special, 2 happened to approach me at exact same time. It was really weird. They just stopped, looked at each other...then without a word the blonde caved to the brunette and just walked away.

I did get dances from the blonde on the next go-'round, but it did change the way I look at how things operate in that club. It really is almost a pack mentality. Interesting.

"Sometimes, nice guys finish last"

Well if being a NICE guy means being last...So Be it!

I'd rather be a nice guy than a testosterone crazed Motherfucking Asshole Bastard who abuses & takes advantage of women mentally & physically.

Welcome to the time suck known as TUSCL, Avalon.

I see you already have volunteer stalkers -- damn it sucks not being on Eastern Standard Time so I can be at the front of the line!

On the flip side, I had a young (life inexperienced?), beautiful & gorgeous natural blonde in Toronto try to get an IV directly from my wallet into her cash haul. To explain, there were many very attractive, sexy gals on shift that Friday (payday Friday, which is probably 100% as to why the A+ talent was present in full force) and I was buying one $20 dance from most of the gals on shift to get as much exposure to the eye candy as was possible. Then there was the gal I mentioned at the start: I bought 3 dances from her when others got one. I showered her with compliments, was very well-behaved during our dances, and never mentioned interest in extras with her in a club where they're pretty commonplace. She never mentioned extras either. Anyways, the rest of the evening she kept wandering by my seat like a stray cat, looking for more business and at one point even stopped to introduce herself to me (again) and shaking my hand in the process. Yes, I had already formally met her before we went to the VIP for our dances. After having her wander by several times, I got the unflattering impression I was being mined. Would a dancer ever try to make her entire evening's goal off a nice guy?

"she is nice"

Oh my, does she know what she's getting into on this board? Lol

(You'll have to explain Steve229 "humor" to her.)

You are a hero Alucard. Seriously. ;)

Now I am ALWAYS nice and never so much as raise my voice with almost any stripper, but do I play the angles and use manipulation when I think it will work? Abso-fucking-lutely. And most of these girls are no strangers to doing the same. It is a strip club, not your church support group, and each side is looking for something from the interactions.

Manipulation isn't right. I usually get what I want through a direct approach. But that's OK, guys like you make it easy for guys like me.

No Doc, I don't. What I do is subtle and usually comes into play with girls who are clearly on the fence and need a gentle nudge in the right direction.

"It is a strip club, not your church support group, and each side is looking for something from the interactions"

I UNDERSTAND it is a Business & a game. That though doesn't mean we can't act properly. What does anyone gain by being a Fucking Asshole!

That's something you have fo ask Douchester.

I understand the dancers side, obviously, and I also can see the customers side. Every regular of mine that goes and dances with someone else always comes back. So please, go dance with other girls and have a great time but you'll always come back. No one does it like I do.

"No, ignore Alucard"

Hmmm...Well, I'm under NO illusions about the Value &/or Importance of any thing I write on this Forum. ALL my words are my personal opinions. What they may be worth is a matter of other people's opinions, NOT what I may think of my own opinions. IF someone ever finds any Value &/or Importance in something I've said...great. If not, that's fine too.

Unfortunately not everything written on this Forum has Value &/or Importance! I guess we just have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

The ONLY times I sent any texts to a Dancer are those that were sent to my ATF. I in those instances did not spend any time with other Dancers. ONLY my ATF. one a few occasions my ATF has given dances to other persons who have asked for them. NO problem as she returned when done. She makes some more $$$ & i still get her company until my visit finishes.

Stiletto, is that cockiness or puffery?

Stiletto25 maybe you should make Carly Simon's 007 song "Nobody Does it Better" your theme song!

"Stiletto, is that cockiness or puffery?"

I'll bet my last Dollar that it is a statement of FACT!

If everything was presented, I see no problem in his actions other than telling you that he came in for you or trying to make you jealous. Those were childish and unproductive games. If I go in to see a particular girl without making an arrangement, it is a risk I take that she may be busy. If I don't have the time to wait for her, I may get dances from a lesser dancer. I don't blame her for not being able to get to me. She shouldn't blame me for spending my money as I see fit. NO dancer has a right to tell me how to spend my entertainment money. I don't get to the club too often and don't have the luxury of coming back the next day for my fave.
If you had an arrangement for him to come in, there may be mutual blame. He should have waited for you a reasonable time or let you know that he was on a tight schedule. You should have gotten word to him that you would get to him ASAP. If you could not get to him, then you shouldn't be mad that he made do with something else. It's a lose, lose situation.
Case in point. Two weeks ago I went in to see girl "a" without her knowing about it. She was busy. I waited and talked to other girls for about an hour then got my dances from someone else and left. Girl "a" does not and will not know that I really wanted to see her. Tuesday I went back (again unannounced). Girl "a" came by promptly and we visited. When she came back from her 1st stage set, she asked me if she could do a couple of table dances with an old regular who had tipped her at the stage. Of course, I would have preferred her to stay with me, but I have NO right to get in the way of her money. She went, (actually only one table over) came back promptly, and I feel that I was rewarded when I did get dances. I did spend enough to make her day. Win, Win situation. Next time I will txt her, but if she promises a time, she better deliver. I know she expect to get paid, but I am not an ATM. I expect customer service for my dollars.

I agree with most of the comments here, if you show up and she is busy, wait, see other girls, leave. If she text you from the club to come by and she doesn't free herself up i a reasonable amount of time, then all bets are off. Even the house mom is fair game at that point.

Alucard, there is an awful lot of roadway between the proverbial "nice guy" and the "testosterone crazed Motherfucking Asshole Bastard who abuses & takes advantage of women mentally & physically."

Now I consider myself a "nice guy with a purpose." I am always nice to the girl that I am dealing with, but if I smell an opportunity I will use cash as a lever to get what I want. It goes something like as follows:

First, more often than not I am suited up, which tends to draw attention. And when I take my money out to pay for drinks, it confirms for the girl sitting with me that I have cash to spend.

From there, she of course tries to sell me LDs/VIP/CR/whatever, and usually chats me up for a bit before she pitches it. In most clubs I turn these down, saying something like "Thank you, but that's not really my gig. However, please have something for me burining your time. After all, you've got to make a living too" and I will hand her $20-40.

Now the next step is the hook moment. If she gets up and walks away then she was likely a poor prospect anyway. But if she stays seated with me, then I know she is still thinking about that wad in my pocket. From there, she may ask, "then what is your gig?" or just continue to chat, but at that moment I know that I have a live one. Eventually, either sooner or later, the conversation will make its way to what I will pay for and we take it from there.

Sometimes, you can tell that they are uncertain about whether they really want to leave with you and they will take one last shot at taking the cash ITC. For that moment, I look at her with a sad smile and tell her, softly, that I'm sorry but I just dont enjoy that stuff. When this happens, this sometimes ends up with a counteroffer of ITC services, sometimes ends up with her walking, and about half the time it leads to OTC. But net-net, more times than not it results in very good things.

Anyway, there it is fwiw.

have a quiet, poignant something similaees that I have money when she I never hard sell it, but rather let her know, in a quiet and friendly way (with an earnest look in my eyes) what she needs to do to take more than $XXX from me.

Reading the other thread about stalking, I don't believe I've ever stalked a dancer, but I have waited obscene times for one dancer with shitty customer service who knew I was there. Twice, the club came close to close and I walked down to who she was with and confronted her. Both times she politely excused herself and left with me. I told her I didn't like it. But, it's almost as if she wants me to come assert some kind of dominance (which isn't always the safest thing to do in a strip club).

"Alucard, there is an awful lot of roadway between the proverbial "nice guy" and the "testosterone crazed Motherfucking Asshole Bastard who abuses & takes advantage of women mentally & physically."

I'm making an assumption (Which Can Be a Dangerous Thing To Do!)that those who read my comment realize that I'm presenting a continuum NOT an Either/Or scenario about male behavior. If someone HAS indeed considered my statement an Either/Or scenario...Well too bad they can't see my point.

I'm hoping that most people here fall more toward the "Nice Guy" who realizes Stripping is a business end of the continuum, than the "testosterone crazed Motherfucking Asshole Bastard who abuses & takes advantage of women mentally & physically" end of the continuum.

I figure if a dancer texts me to say she'll be at the club, she's also texting a whole bunch of other guys who've shown interest. I'm certainly not the only one, and she probably figures if she texts 10 guys, one or two may show up. I of course don't feel any compunction to have to show up, nor would I expect her to save herself awaiting my arrival. If she's busy, more power to her - I usually pick the good ones, so they are usually busy gals. Fair enough, if I feel she'll be occupied too long, there's always another on whom I can lavish my attentions.

The Asshole Bastard gets sex all night for free and so off course is not here.
And making a dancer jealous by bying dances from girls you like less - yes teenager games for 300 Dollars an hour will make her fall in love -)

@looneylarry and alucard- That is a statement of fact. I figured I'd catch a little shit for that.

Alucard: IMO it sucks to be the nice guy. The meathead duchbag is getting pussy from my xATF and I'm not. How exactly in being a nice guy better?

Dougster: dancers have feelings. (they are still people) Just not when they are on the clock and think of you as nothing more than an ATM.

Rick: "What I do is subtle and usually comes into play with girls who are clearly on the fence "

Yeah, like they've never done it before so haven't already decided if they are willing to fuck for money or not. Rick's sly, deeply insightful, but still nice guy manipulation is so devilishly clever. I think a Nobel prize in stripperology is in the books. Too bad it works no better than just asking. (Here's reality for anyone who cares - they've already decided if are willing to cross that line or not. If they have they have fucked scores or hundreds of other guys already. There is no "on the fence", just Rick stroking his ego again and again for all to see).

Well God bless you, then, stiletto. I salute you.

I think you have misread client B.

So he walks in and the typical girl he sees is busy. So he spends time with some other girl. It wasn't to 'make you jealous', it was because he was bored and had no idea how long you would be, or even if there was somebody else on your list between that guy and him. He didn't want to waste time sitting there like a lump as if he was somehow in a committed relationship with you. You don't own him or own his business.

So then you later apparently challenge him on taking a dance with another girl like you were some sort of a couple and he was cheating on you! Honestly if that was me you would have just automatically made yourself an ex-ATF. When I come into a club, whether it is the first or fiftieth time I am free to spend my money as I wish.

Most guys preferences in women are set in high school. If you remind them of their fantasies of some girl that they knew when they were younger they will like you. If you remind them of some girl who was full of all the wrong kind of attitude...same thing.

"Alucard: IMO it sucks to be the nice guy. The meathead duchbag is getting pussy from my xATF and I'm not. How exactly in being a nice guy better"

Well mjx01, if you can't figure it out...

If it SUCKS so bad being at the "Nice Guy" end of the continuum, are you moving perhaps toward the other end of the continuum so that you can reclaim the xATF from the meathead duchbag?

Being polite & courteous toward Dancers has never prevented me from getting the sexual interactions I was looking for.

What about you Stiletto25, which type of guy gets most if not all of your attention? And WHY? THX

@looneylarry- Mmmm what kind of salute?

@alucard- I like nice guys. All of my serious regulars are nice guys. They follow through with things, they show appreciation for me, they are as honest as you can expect from a customer. I'm comfortable with them. I don't usually have a lasting club relationship with an asshole. We'll see eachother a couple times and then it fizzles. Many of my coworkers may.disagree but I also stay away from the really drunk customers. Some girls will tell you the drunker they are, the easier they are. I find the opposite to be true.

I like nice guys. All of my serious regulars are nice guys...

@muchfun- I read your earlier post. For the record, I don't have free sex with asshole bastards outside or inside the club. Nice guys finish first inside and outside the club with me. Honest guys also. Ive slept with three assholes in my life and that was before I started dancing. That was enough for me. Plus I believe I'm past the " I love guys who treat me like dirt" phase.

So it's proven again how to get everything from a young sweet girl and how to pay much for little from an wiser one.
Who cares tips how to be a better regular at least a dances only one nearly all others get them only paying...

Can you say that again in english, much.

^^^^^
Lol. Yeah, anyone know what language muchfun is writing in?

(Did I just agree with ...Dougster?)

"@alucard- I like nice guys. All of my serious regulars are nice guys. They follow through with things, they show appreciation for me, they are as honest as you can expect from a customer. I'm comfortable with them. I don't usually have a lasting club relationship with an asshole. We'll see eachother a couple times and then it fizzles. Many of my coworkers may.disagree but I also stay away from the really drunk customers. Some girls will tell you the drunker they are, the easier they are. I find the opposite to be true"

You're the GOLD Standard Stiletto25! :) Too bad all Dancers can't be cut from your pattern, the Strip Club World would be a nicer place.

Now if the other side of the equation would cooperate... LOL

"Nice girls finish last..."

I don't really care who finishes first or last, as long as *I* finish. After all, *I'm* paying.

Oh, stiletto, you foxy foxster, it is a no-hand salute, of course!

Dougster, if it was that easy then we would not have whole threads based simply upon getting dancers OTC, or so many guys who seem to have trouble finding it, or guys crowing about their success in finally getting a particular dancer OTC, etc.

The reason for this is simple: far from all dancers have sex for money and many of the ones that do go about it opportunisticly. Now it is sad that I need to even post this truism, but I do so for the sake or ensuring that someone even more ignorant, and less experienced, than you (as unlikely as that may be) does not read your dazzling insights and walk away with the wrong impressions.

Now there are certainly exceptions to this, with certain clubs that have reputations for girls that fuck and suck. But there are also a large number of clubs out there where ITC sex is nonexistent and OTC is difficult to find and expensive when you do so.

"Just ask." LOL. Ah huh, go into almost any downtown Chicago club, or for that matter many midwestern clubs, or the clubs in Boston, or many of the other more uptight clubs spread among different regions and "just ask" for sex and see how that works out for you. ;) Hell, even go into one of the many more flexible clubs and "just ask" the wrong dancer and you will no doubt have a very interesting experience.

All I can do is shake my head in wonder as you share these gems.

"I'd rather be a nice guy than a testosterone crazed Motherfucking Asshole Bastard who abuses & takes advantage of women mentally & physically"

I'm no bastard.

"What does anyone gain by being a Fucking Asshole!"

I'm not a "Fucking"!

LMAO @ Dougster v.s. rickdugan VII

Dougster, I tried just asking...and IT WORKED!


"So it's proven again how to get everything from a young sweet girl and how to pay much for little from an wiser one.
Who cares tips how to be a better regular at least a dances only one nearly all others get them only paying..."

^^smh

avalons07, Really? Just, REALLY?

Ah, see, Rick, stax tried it in real life and my way worked. Sounds like Doc has similar success with just asking.

I'm not sure why you think it's difficult. Could it be that all your sly manipulation is actually counter productive? You see it gets even easier for me. Often they ask me first and I don't even have to bring it up at all. But, hey, I think you have deep seated psychological need to think you are deviser of some clever system even if none is needed. Sad that so much of your identity is built on that.

avalons07: Please post some pictures of yourself in profile, it would help me provide you with a more meaningful/insightful reply to thread topic...............

Stiletto 25 - "Every regular of mine that goes and dances with someone else always comes back. So please, go dance with other girls and have a great time but you'll always come back. No one does it like I do."
If you need to have an impartial judge determine the veracity of what you say, I would be willing to make the sacrifice and provide such service for the benefit Science and the industry as a whole. I'd even waive my usual fee.

@alucard- you're sweet.
@looneylarry- I figured that was the case.
@rlionheart- now thats a thought.:)

About Language I've allready noticed some Americans have trouble to understand English only slightly different from there usual articulation myself even can't hear much difference if any

Just yesterday I ordered Red Bull just sayd Red Bull - what - Red Bull - can't understand you - RED BULL - another Person sayd Tell me - Red Bull - He want's Red Bull - oh Red Bull I still not Know the difference of speaking couldn't find much myself
Other People seems to have Trouble to get other than basic sentence constructs may Be not correct at 100% while myself Never have Trouble following an conversation every Second word understandable

Sorry I missed all the discussion. I was busy being entertained by the lovely Avalon on Thu, Fri and today. Even managed to have dinner with her.

sc,

Go ahead, rub it in, since I missed her!

lol heyyy everyone i was guy A in this thread just noticed this thread lol any questions ?