Need some advice

But you have to internalize the progress toward your aspirations, or the outer function will focus your definition into what makes less than perfectibility seem idealized towards co-opting your coping mechanisms and realizing rewards or punishments in an enabled manner ...

Sounds good to me, Book Guy, although frankly that's getting a bit more self-help-y than anything I can contribute.

Interesting point, Chandler, and I'm with you about how Hugevladfan could best improve from his current status to something better.

In the shorter run (and probably in a very long run, for most people), the actual act of 100% ability in choosing feelings is likely unattainable. My recommendation is not, so much, to BECOME 100% able to 100% conquer and choose EVERY feeling immediately. My recommendation is to merely ADMIT that, after long hard study, that MIGHT be a possibility.

This one admission, a consciousness-raising, will open to yourself all the other necessities of living a more emotionally balanced and happy life, merely because it instantly eliminates self-victimization as a possibility.

So, I'm not saying, GO OUT AND CHOOSE THINE EMOTIONS. I'm saying, NOW ADMIT to yourself that such an eventuality is a possibility and work toward it (slowly, but surely).

"Chandler, yes, I am saying he can choose his feelings, not just the intensity of them."

In that event, Book Guy, I completely disagree afterall. I believe our feelings are more complicated than cafeteria items you can choose to add to your tray or decline. And I think Huge would benefit more by acknowledging that he needs to live with his feelings and work to control his reaction to them so that they don't consume him.

Didn't mean to be too harsh. :) I've certainly been there. I think I probably know what you're dealing with (maybe better than a lot of others), and I'm not claiming that I'm any better at the self-maintenance than anyone else. We're all just struggling through. But I think you do need, Hugevlad, to be honest with yourself, in order to move along.

Chandler, yes, I am saying he can choose his feelings, not just the intensity of them. It's a real milestone, an epiphany, a total consciousness raising, to accept the truth that feelings are a choice.

Certainly, there are times when I fail to control my feelings and much to my detriment, and there are plenty of times when I simply don't bother, or when I forget and then have to backtrack. But for me, the point isn't merely to learn a little bit about how to manage one of life's big issues. For me, the point is to STAND ENTIRELY OUTSIDE that issue and gain a WHOLE NEW PERSPECTIVE on it.

You have to swallow the whole pill. :)

The thing is, it's a double benefit. First, you get to "pick the right fruit" once you realize that you are doing the picking. But second, you get to look back on all your unhappy times and LEARN from them, by recognizing your own agency in those times, accepting that there are some things you simply could not have changed (important!) and also accepting that there are some things you did that made things bad. And you can ACTUALLY IMPROVE YOUR CHOICES for the next time.

Learning is the great part. Realizing that, even if you do pick bad fruit, you are becoming a better and better fruit picker every little step of the way, rather than being relegated to nothing other than dismay at the rot that's sitting in your basket.

Reading things you don't want to hear I always feel is somehow beneficial. The following paragraph would fall into that category and prolly more spot-on than I care to realise. Thx for the observations (again). [Book Guy wrote]-----------Think about it. Doesn't it make you feel "committed" or "deep" or "strongly attached," to have such in-depth responses to this person? Aren't you, deep down, SHOWING OFF your commitment and emotional dependence, by posting about it here on the boards? If you really want it to go away, your task is not to experience it in your imagination before it happens, and congratulate yourself, and then go experience it for real and somehow "live through" it. Rather, your task is to think of it as childish, a bad choice; imagine SOMETHING ELSE; and then take the steps necessary to make something else happen.

I believe in the saying that you can't control how you feel, only how you act. This may not completely contradict what Book Guy says. Huge can choose to act and think in a way that controls the intensity of his feelings towards this girl, just not their inclination. So I disagree that he can simply choose to be indifferent to her, if that's what is being suggested.

Personally, when I realize I'm feeling overwrought about a girl, or about anything, it helps to step back and appreciate the absurdity of my situation. Somebody said that comedy is tragedy plus time. "Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?" Think of weighty obsessions you had years ago that now seem comic. There will come a day when you look back at what you're going through and laugh. Comedy can also be tragedy plus distance. Instead of leaving town or staying out of the club, try to distance your attitude from your plight and see the comedy in a guy losing his heart and hyperventilating over what amounts to a minor business relationship gone awry. You'll still probably feel like a retard around her for a while, but it might not seem so much like the end of the world.

Actually, I'd like to rephrase. It's not about CONTROLLING your emotions. It's about CHOOSING them in the first place.

I had a mild problem with on-field anger management when I was a little kid playing soccer. Heightened sense of injustice and fair play, I guess. :) I would holler a lot at cheaters, and the referees who abetted them. This got me in trouble. Unfortunately for me, most of the well-meaning adults suggested (often in no uncertain terms) that it was my responsiblility to "control your anger." Often they'd say something like, "If you want to be a good player, you have TO CLAMP DOWN ON THAT." To me, that suggested falsely that the issue was one of, basically, having something inevitable that I had to manage somehow. It was like, I was a pressure cooker, the steam was GOING to rise no matter what, and I had to learn to put a VERY STRONG LID on top.

But eventually I grew up. And found out that that's not anger management at all. Instead of clamping down the lid HARDER (which implies effort, gritting my teeth, and in fact getting EVEN ANGRIER), I needed to LET OFF THE STEAM. Or, NOT BUILD UP STEAM in the first place. It was a mind-opening experience, to realize that. I no longer would think in terms of "having an internal problem that I need to control after it happens," but instead of "not allowing internal problems to get initiated in the first place."

The point for me, wasn't to have the anger and then clamp down on it and manage it. It was, to choose something other than anger at the outset.

For you, the same lesson applies. It's not about controlling your emotions after they happen. It's about admitting to yourself that you CHOOSE to have these emotions. The pain and adrenaline are actually proactive, voluntary acts on your part. There are a thousand therapies, but until you admit that they don't "happen to" you, but instead "are picked by" you, you'll never move ahead.

Think about it. Doesn't it make you feel "committed" or "deep" or "strongly attached," to have such in-depth responses to this person? Aren't you, deep down, SHOWING OFF your commitment and emotional dependence, by posting about it here on the boards? If you really want it to go away, your task is not to experience it in your imagination before it happens, and congratulate yourself, and then go experience it for real and somehow "live through" it. Rather, your task is to think of it as childish, a bad choice; imagine SOMETHING ELSE; and then take the steps necessary to make something else happen.

Those steps might include, for example, going to the club and not having an adrenaline response. Or not going to the club. Or thinking about her in a negative light. Or thinking about her positively but in a non-emotional way. Or ... geez, there are a thousand options. Your job is to develop the proactivity to choose one.

Now, in the long run, some emotions simply aren't voluntary, I know. Very few of us can absolutely have no feeling whatsoever when, for instance, our mom dies, or we hear about a loved one being killed by a terrorist act, or something like that. Winning the big lottery also might give you an "involuntary" but good emotion. But for other, less life-altering situations? All those internal responses of yours, dude, they're VOLUNTARY CHOICES. And from among a plethora of options, you're deliberately picking the wrong ones.

I agree with Book Guy. Learning to control your emotions is a big part of the maturation process, it's a major difference between children and adults. It ain't easy but it is necessary and this sounds like a good opportunity to begin doing so.

My advice is to treat her like you would any other dancer. Don't go out of your way to either avoid her or to find her, that's giving in to your current emotional state. And keep reminding yourself that you're a customer and that's all you're ever going to be to her.

First of all thx for the response. Loved the first paragraph, you lost me at the point you said I need to exhibit some self-control. As stated, externally I would be fine and I am quite fortunate that in my time a loss of self-control has always eluded me. Besides adrenaline and pain I have never been in altered state and intend to keep it that way. Naturally there is some credence in what yuou said (if you meant it in a serious manner) and I appreciated the frankness.

Interestingly enough after reading your riff on bathroom attendants and thinking that I have said sumpin less than agreeable regarding another one of your posts (I believe IRT your dress/appearance at work and someone's opinion) it kind of puts your answer in a different perspective. If I have mistaken the origin of the post I apologise but thx for the visual of bathroom 'monkeys'.

Sounds to me (and I'm not trying to be cruel, or dismissive, or anything) like you need to learn the concept of

== state management ==

otherwise known as

== emotional proactivity. ==

You are wise enough to know that your innerds (your autonomous feelings, your emotions, call it what you want) will "automatically do something TO you" when you see this girl. The name of the game, therefore, is to CHANGE the something that the innerds will do, or at least manage some sort of dominance over your innerds to the point that you can rely on them being less autonomous, and more of a part of your body.

You speak about your emotions as though they are not a choice. I utterly disagree. It is a long, difficult path, to come to a realization that ALL your feelings, states, emotions, even sensations, are somehow VOLUNTARY and can be controlled from within. But when you do come around to that realization, you will be able to have a happier, more productive and fulfilling life. I recommend you attempt to begin that journey as soon as you can. It will engender improvements not only in your relations with strippers (strange things happen -- other people start to respect you, when you display a type of self-control that you currently seem to lack) but also with employers, with friends, with family, with the world, with life, with liberty, with the pursuit of happiness, with your inalienable rights, with any attendant self-evident truths, and with four score and seven years ago. And even with Founding Fathers.

There, that's my advice. :)