Im not a old timer, but i do remember when the strip club use to be a fantasy. from what ive seen nowadays is people want to make this life a reality. both ways, the men and women. obviously mostly men but women also. clubs should be about men going to see and spend money on there fantasy girl. thats it! seems like the girls feel that every guy that walks into the club owes them money. seems like the guys feel there atf is an actual girlfriend. the list goes on for both sexes. but the all time worse issue is both feel like they can actually find a suitable mate in the strip club... this isnt the real world, and the relationship will never work in the long run. the type of attraction that brought u two together was never meant to last...
this is what ive noticed as of late, maybe you all have had a different experience... but as for me ill stick to fantasy strip club. spend money on girls the i like (which is the skinny girls) dont give them my name and come back and do it again with a different girl...
big: I've been going to strip clubs for 30 years, since my 17th birthday when some friends took me over to Fort Erie to get me over a girlfriend. I've never enjoyed the dubious virtue of the fantasy about which you speak; from that first time, it's pretty much been all about the no strings attached sex. Not every time, and not always great, but I've never had to go home wishing I could fuck one of those beauties who danced on stage. True, it's not terribly emotionally satisfying, but having sex with girls who are, generally, hot, physically good looking, not looking for entanglement, and up for almost anything you're willing to pay for carries a certain satisfaction all it's own. In the end, I'm glad I missed the "fantasy" and got straight to the reality.
True, it's not terribly emotionally satisfying, but having sex with girls who are, generally, hot, physically good looking, not looking for entanglement, and up for almost anything you're willing to pay for carries a certain satisfaction all it's own.
^^^
that satisfies my emotions just fine thank you!
especially the times when i didn't even have to pay! ;)
What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody thinks their ATFs is their gf anymore. That went out in the late 90's/early 2000's. Now guys just want to pay whores to suck their dick. As it should be too. Things are getting more realistic.
I started going to clubs in the early 90s when I turned 21. In the beginning it was more about the fantasy and teasing element. Clubs didn't really do what they do now back then and I didn't know any better. As time went on and I went through the ranks to eventually finding extras clubs there was no looking back. Times have changed, a lot of clubs now TO is offered that there never ever used to be. I can't justify spending $100+ on air dances or basic grinding if I can get extras for the same price, sometimes less. There's some bargain basement places around here that are dumps but usually have some decent latinas.
I don't think of strip-clubs as ACTUAL socializing. I call it the "fantasy" world. But for me, strip-clubbing is the only REAL contact that I have with attractive women, and I do rely on the REALITY of strip-club interactions in order to slake my biological need for such endorphins and what-not as are provided. Therefore, it is true to conclude, that although I have the logical good sense to know that a strip-club is a fantasy world, nevertheless I foolishly let it give me real emotions, and following from those real emotions, I further want more real experiences from the fantasy.
This is a sad state, I admit. It's not tenable. I use the strip-clubs as an emotional crutch. Why?
Because there ARE VERY FEW attractive-enough women in my generation. I think the fantasy-to-reality meld which has been lamented by the original post in this thread, is fueled by a lot of things, of course; but part of what's fueling it, is obesity. Back in the 1950s or earlier, across the average swath of North American "normal" population, there weren't as many fatties. Sure, in general there were probably fewer women built like marathon runners or gymnasts, and the beauty ideal was less skinny before Twiggy's career than after. But the total number of women who coincided, roughly, with what men though would be "good enough," was a MUCH higher percentage of the total number of women available. Back then men -- for example the returning GI's coming home after WWII -- could look at women from a point of view of plenty: there's lots of fish in the sea. If one were manipulative, or rebuffed a suitor for no good reason, there were plenty of others. Male attention was appreciated, and female attractiveness (especially during the marrying ages) was much more general. I would guess that as much as 60% of a typical group of females were considered "attractive enough" that the man stopped worrying about looks, and started thinking in terms of whether or not he actually "got along" with the gal. Is she my type? Do we agree in outlook? Do I like her sense of humor or find her annoying?
Nowadays, women who are "hot enough" (at a BARE MINIMUM) that a man is happy dating her, are few and far-between. I'd say it's in the 5% range. The ratio, of attractive women relative to women of proper age and availability, is simply utterly non-functional. A male needs to think that a female is "enough" to get him hard, or (although he CAN fuck her) he just won't WANT to fuck her. It doesn't take much. But below a certain threshold, the female is NOT going to be able to get his respect, and he's going to think of his relationship as one in which he is "trapped" in the state of "being required" to go out with the woman. In concert with the dwindling supply of viable females, goes a culture which further reinforces the notion that female desirability is, can be, MUST be, independent of her looks, to replace the absence of desirability that otherwise the plain biology would produce. The women are biologically less viable; so, to make up the difference, the women create a culture in which the viability of females is redefined in terms of something other than biology.
All this leads to desperation, frustration, and men who don't know what's wrong. Guys coming back from Iraq are just coming to a nation where they can't get laid, where the first hot woman they see is someone who is highly likely to treat them like SHIT, rather than to THANK him for his military service. He's off on another tour of duty, he's a dead-beat dad, he gambles or drinks, he just does NOT want to be trapped with THAT COW.
It's a dysfunctional system. It isn't the only thing fueling the high-service expectations at strip clubs these days (they've become de-facto brothels in some cities; and the ol' burlesque-style of tease and choreographed performance is 100% lost to all but memory). But it's one of the major things. Men don't get access to attractive females in ANY other manner. On college campuses, the girls are plentiful and "normal" about sexuality; then in the "real" world, the viably attractive women thin out to a degree that is TOO great for the demographic number of viable men around them. Females aren't just free to be "picky" any more; they're free to deny reality and demand treatment that is not merited. Morbidly obese is the new hot: they are succeeding in defining it that way. This leaves a "scarcity" phenomenon, in which the few attractive females choose on the basis of super-competitive traits rather than merely competitive ones. Biologically, she wants her OFFSPRING to have a positive chance; this should not mean, all other things being equal, if she is judging solely on income, that she rejects the $200K breadwinner in favor of only $1-million breadwinners and up. Of course, she isn't judging ONLY on the basis of income; but as a metaphor it makes sense. The very very few attractive women have gotten to the point where they can essentially demand Tony Robbins, Mark Cuban, or Bill Gates; and if they don't get one of those three, then they can, quite accurately, predict that the man they are with is not as "good" a man as they CAN get. This is a level of hyper-selectivity (unreasonable? reasonable? that doesn't matter!) in which VIABLE and DESIRABLE are nevertheless rejected in favor of EVEN MORE SO. It's stupid for the female, in fact; and it is not helpful to the population as a whole, or to the males, or, even, to the unattractive females, who end up trying to match behavior with the few attractive ones to "prove" their own desirability.
Biologically, a system can't function if it rejects viable partnerships on the basis of non-functional criteria. But because we've begun to abandon female desirability (as viewed by heterosexual males) as a valid criterion for male choice, we've begun to enable the non-function of female obesity. And in its wake, in the wide swallowing cannonball splash of whale blubber, comes the "scarcity" sense in the minds of all participants in the mating game. This belief, or assumption, of female beauty as a "rare" or "odd" or "unusual" thing, is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS to the history of mankind. There's not another era, EVER, in human history, in which literature and art record that men simply aren't having sex, aren't interested, and that female beauty is a rare thing, unlikely ever to be encountered. All Western art is replete with record of men having TOO MUCH sexual desire for the women around them (and, often, of the women succumbing because they, too, had "excess" desire; differrent point). That historical art is also replete with emphasis on the universality of female beauty -- that young women are all irresistible, that women can always sway a man a bit by means of feminine wiles, that women are a "gift" and that sex will "always" be effective and highly likely, if you just lock a woman up with ANY HUMAN MALE. Now we're in a different state. Now, young men back from the trip to the front, are actually returning to a land where there are FEWER available desirable pussies. At least at the Frankfurt-am-Main Flughafen there were hookers he could bone. At least in Iraq, if he wasn't getting shot at, if maybe he was desk personnel or doing logistics at an airstrip for USAid delivery, if there was some leave-time, he knew there were places where young men could go. Did he go? Did he fuck whores? Maybe, maybe not. Probably. :)
But in the USA, he's supposed to be getting back to FREEDOM, not greater RESTRICTION. He's supposed to be the returning hero, surrounded by babydolls, and he'd see whether one or another of them seemed like a COOL PERSON. That's no longer the case. I know of almost NO young men, or older men who used to be young, who also judged their potential female partners on the basis of the woman's character or on the basis of the potential compatibility of the couple. That's because the WHOLE dating ritual for the male, is simply a question of whether or not he CAN LAND AT ALL a woman who doesn't disgust him physically. That's not the case in Europe, where 90% of the women aren't obese; in fact, they're fit, interesting, educated, and generally hot. Sure, there are the
This ain't workin'. We have alomst two whole generations of men who now think of women as only RARELY beautiful. The "hottie" in the crowd is one of 1000; but it's always been that, although the hottest girl was still a rare phenomenon, her sisters were totally hot enough. Hottest in the whole population is still a completely rare individual; but hot ENOUGH, among the population, should be in the more-than-fifty-percent range, as it was (or so it seems, judging from cultural artefacts and recorded history) until the 1950s; but now it's in the less-than-ten-percent range.
So men go to strip-clubs. It's the ONLY PLACE WHERE PHYSICAL BEAUTY IS AVAILABLE to most men. Of COURSE they want to fuck. It's the ONLY WOMEN THEY EVER MEET who are also hot enough that the men actually WANT TO FUCK THEM AT ALL. It's not that the men are "losers" who can't pick up hot women. It's that there are too few hot women.
i agree with the comment here. Dont get me wrong, the new found extras and itc/otc etc. due to the deteriorating economy is a great part of the new strip club fantasy. To me, having no strings attached sex with a hottt girl is alot of mens fantasies no matter where they pick them up at. strip club, bar, grocery store. And if you feel you have a shot with hot women outside the strip club or not, it still is a fantasy.
dougster maybe you can explain what this is.. When a guy takes his ATF to dinner, then sex. the movies, then sex. night on the town, then sex. all the while paying for it. sound mighty close to a GF to me.
biggb011: do I really have to explain it? Do guys typically hand over a few to a dozen benjamins to girlfriends at the end of the night? Sounds like a stripper doubling as an escort. In any case, not many customers are going for the escort thing as in night on the thing anyway these days. Just want the whores for as long as it take to fuck them then send them on the their way.
> When a guy takes his ATF to dinner, then sex. the movies, then sex. night on the town, then > sex. all the while paying for it. sound mighty close to a GF to me.
In escort terms, that's called GFE. Pretty common, actually. Some guys like the full package experience, in addition to the sex (can't blame them).
Sorry I got off on a rant, there. I think y'all knew what I was talking about, 'round 'bout the third sentence or so. Glad to have some positive feedback about it anyway. Thing is, for me it's a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT about my life, that so many OTHER PEOPLE have fucked themselves up so much that I personally have a bad experience because of their choices. I know I'm not "supposed" to "let" my attitude be strongly influenced by other people's actions, or the whole outside world and what its state happens to be; I'm "supposed" to be concerned NOT with trying to choose what happens TO me and how the external world acts TOWARD me (can't!), but rather, with choosing my reactions TO the stimuli that the world sends me. I know I know ...
But really. It's just not HUMAN for a male to have to think in terms of being a member of a one-gender species except in strip clubs. It DOESN'T WORK RIGHT ...
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True, it's not terribly emotionally satisfying, but having sex with girls who are, generally, hot, physically good looking, not looking for entanglement, and up for almost anything you're willing to pay for carries a certain satisfaction all it's own.
^^^
that satisfies my emotions just fine thank you!
especially the times when i didn't even have to pay! ;)
This is a sad state, I admit. It's not tenable. I use the strip-clubs as an emotional crutch. Why?
Because there ARE VERY FEW attractive-enough women in my generation. I think the fantasy-to-reality meld which has been lamented by the original post in this thread, is fueled by a lot of things, of course; but part of what's fueling it, is obesity. Back in the 1950s or earlier, across the average swath of North American "normal" population, there weren't as many fatties. Sure, in general there were probably fewer women built like marathon runners or gymnasts, and the beauty ideal was less skinny before Twiggy's career than after. But the total number of women who coincided, roughly, with what men though would be "good enough," was a MUCH higher percentage of the total number of women available. Back then men -- for example the returning GI's coming home after WWII -- could look at women from a point of view of plenty: there's lots of fish in the sea. If one were manipulative, or rebuffed a suitor for no good reason, there were plenty of others. Male attention was appreciated, and female attractiveness (especially during the marrying ages) was much more general. I would guess that as much as 60% of a typical group of females were considered "attractive enough" that the man stopped worrying about looks, and started thinking in terms of whether or not he actually "got along" with the gal. Is she my type? Do we agree in outlook? Do I like her sense of humor or find her annoying?
Nowadays, women who are "hot enough" (at a BARE MINIMUM) that a man is happy dating her, are few and far-between. I'd say it's in the 5% range. The ratio, of attractive women relative to women of proper age and availability, is simply utterly non-functional. A male needs to think that a female is "enough" to get him hard, or (although he CAN fuck her) he just won't WANT to fuck her. It doesn't take much. But below a certain threshold, the female is NOT going to be able to get his respect, and he's going to think of his relationship as one in which he is "trapped" in the state of "being required" to go out with the woman. In concert with the dwindling supply of viable females, goes a culture which further reinforces the notion that female desirability is, can be, MUST be, independent of her looks, to replace the absence of desirability that otherwise the plain biology would produce. The women are biologically less viable; so, to make up the difference, the women create a culture in which the viability of females is redefined in terms of something other than biology.
All this leads to desperation, frustration, and men who don't know what's wrong. Guys coming back from Iraq are just coming to a nation where they can't get laid, where the first hot woman they see is someone who is highly likely to treat them like SHIT, rather than to THANK him for his military service. He's off on another tour of duty, he's a dead-beat dad, he gambles or drinks, he just does NOT want to be trapped with THAT COW.
It's a dysfunctional system. It isn't the only thing fueling the high-service expectations at strip clubs these days (they've become de-facto brothels in some cities; and the ol' burlesque-style of tease and choreographed performance is 100% lost to all but memory). But it's one of the major things. Men don't get access to attractive females in ANY other manner. On college campuses, the girls are plentiful and "normal" about sexuality; then in the "real" world, the viably attractive women thin out to a degree that is TOO great for the demographic number of viable men around them. Females aren't just free to be "picky" any more; they're free to deny reality and demand treatment that is not merited. Morbidly obese is the new hot: they are succeeding in defining it that way. This leaves a "scarcity" phenomenon, in which the few attractive females choose on the basis of super-competitive traits rather than merely competitive ones. Biologically, she wants her OFFSPRING to have a positive chance; this should not mean, all other things being equal, if she is judging solely on income, that she rejects the $200K breadwinner in favor of only $1-million breadwinners and up. Of course, she isn't judging ONLY on the basis of income; but as a metaphor it makes sense. The very very few attractive women have gotten to the point where they can essentially demand Tony Robbins, Mark Cuban, or Bill Gates; and if they don't get one of those three, then they can, quite accurately, predict that the man they are with is not as "good" a man as they CAN get. This is a level of hyper-selectivity (unreasonable? reasonable? that doesn't matter!) in which VIABLE and DESIRABLE are nevertheless rejected in favor of EVEN MORE SO. It's stupid for the female, in fact; and it is not helpful to the population as a whole, or to the males, or, even, to the unattractive females, who end up trying to match behavior with the few attractive ones to "prove" their own desirability.
Biologically, a system can't function if it rejects viable partnerships on the basis of non-functional criteria. But because we've begun to abandon female desirability (as viewed by heterosexual males) as a valid criterion for male choice, we've begun to enable the non-function of female obesity. And in its wake, in the wide swallowing cannonball splash of whale blubber, comes the "scarcity" sense in the minds of all participants in the mating game. This belief, or assumption, of female beauty as a "rare" or "odd" or "unusual" thing, is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS to the history of mankind. There's not another era, EVER, in human history, in which literature and art record that men simply aren't having sex, aren't interested, and that female beauty is a rare thing, unlikely ever to be encountered. All Western art is replete with record of men having TOO MUCH sexual desire for the women around them (and, often, of the women succumbing because they, too, had "excess" desire; differrent point). That historical art is also replete with emphasis on the universality of female beauty -- that young women are all irresistible, that women can always sway a man a bit by means of feminine wiles, that women are a "gift" and that sex will "always" be effective and highly likely, if you just lock a woman up with ANY HUMAN MALE. Now we're in a different state. Now, young men back from the trip to the front, are actually returning to a land where there are FEWER available desirable pussies. At least at the Frankfurt-am-Main Flughafen there were hookers he could bone. At least in Iraq, if he wasn't getting shot at, if maybe he was desk personnel or doing logistics at an airstrip for USAid delivery, if there was some leave-time, he knew there were places where young men could go. Did he go? Did he fuck whores? Maybe, maybe not. Probably. :)
But in the USA, he's supposed to be getting back to FREEDOM, not greater RESTRICTION. He's supposed to be the returning hero, surrounded by babydolls, and he'd see whether one or another of them seemed like a COOL PERSON. That's no longer the case. I know of almost NO young men, or older men who used to be young, who also judged their potential female partners on the basis of the woman's character or on the basis of the potential compatibility of the couple. That's because the WHOLE dating ritual for the male, is simply a question of whether or not he CAN LAND AT ALL a woman who doesn't disgust him physically. That's not the case in Europe, where 90% of the women aren't obese; in fact, they're fit, interesting, educated, and generally hot. Sure, there are the
This ain't workin'. We have alomst two whole generations of men who now think of women as only RARELY beautiful. The "hottie" in the crowd is one of 1000; but it's always been that, although the hottest girl was still a rare phenomenon, her sisters were totally hot enough. Hottest in the whole population is still a completely rare individual; but hot ENOUGH, among the population, should be in the more-than-fifty-percent range, as it was (or so it seems, judging from cultural artefacts and recorded history) until the 1950s; but now it's in the less-than-ten-percent range.
So men go to strip-clubs. It's the ONLY PLACE WHERE PHYSICAL BEAUTY IS AVAILABLE to most men. Of COURSE they want to fuck. It's the ONLY WOMEN THEY EVER MEET who are also hot enough that the men actually WANT TO FUCK THEM AT ALL. It's not that the men are "losers" who can't pick up hot women. It's that there are too few hot women.
dougster maybe you can explain what this is.. When a guy takes his ATF to dinner, then sex. the movies, then sex. night on the town, then sex. all the while paying for it. sound mighty close to a GF to me.
If you're fantasizing about something, don't stop there--why not figure out how to do it or get it?
In escort terms, that's called GFE. Pretty common, actually. Some guys like the full package experience, in addition to the sex (can't blame them).
Sorry I got off on a rant, there. I think y'all knew what I was talking about, 'round 'bout the third sentence or so. Glad to have some positive feedback about it anyway. Thing is, for me it's a HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT about my life, that so many OTHER PEOPLE have fucked themselves up so much that I personally have a bad experience because of their choices. I know I'm not "supposed" to "let" my attitude be strongly influenced by other people's actions, or the whole outside world and what its state happens to be; I'm "supposed" to be concerned NOT with trying to choose what happens TO me and how the external world acts TOWARD me (can't!), but rather, with choosing my reactions TO the stimuli that the world sends me. I know I know ...
But really. It's just not HUMAN for a male to have to think in terms of being a member of a one-gender species except in strip clubs. It DOESN'T WORK RIGHT ...