Smoking ban in Michigan

Even though I'm a non-smoker, I oppose these bans as one more place the government is intruding where they don't belong. That said, it *is* nice to come home and not have to take a shower.

I totally agree that the establishment's owner should be able to determine whether he/she wants to allow or prohibit smoking. And I do hate going home smelling like stale cigarettes. I can do without that for sure.

We went through this in Ohio a couple of years ago or so...you get used to going outside to smoke though I do miss having a Cohiba while sitting there with my drink and beautiful women around me.

Cigar bars are still allowed to operate, so make them into strip clubs with no food service.

I moved to California in 1990. They were talking about a smoking ban just when I got here and instituted it pretty quickly, so I've never had a chance to smoke in a strip club. Like stogiebt, I only smoke cigars--started a dozen years ago.

I love going to Vegas and lighting up a stogie while gambling. It does seem to irritate the cigarette smokers though, which is kind of weird.

I definitely feel your pain, stogiebt. I really enjoy my cigars and it's the best leisure activity when I'm traveling- smoking a nice la gloria cubana while watching beautiful ladies try to empty my wallet (they are most often successful, fyi). And I've enjoyed this activity the most in the Detroit clubs. So if you're correct, that will be very disappointing. In Phoenix they've moved some pretty nice smoking areas outside of the club and I've enjoyed a few nice cigars outside at HiLiter in particular. But that's probably because of the weather in Phoenix, probably wouldn't work in Detroit.

We went to no smoking in ANY public building last year. I don't smoke but I was against it. Stogiebt, I know the experience won't be the same for you (or other smokers) but for a whole bunch of people it will be a lot better. There's winners and losers no matter what they decide.

This is so simple. Humans have the ability to read and make choices. A simple $5 sign on a door, "This establishment is a smoking allowed establishment.", or "This establishment is a non-smoking establishment.", and "problem solved. If people truly dis-like smoking, some entrepreneur will open a non-smoking business and the smoking one will either shut down or conform to the demand, So simple.

OK, have at it you "government knows better then you" dimwits!

While I am a small government advocate, my understanding of this ordinance is not that it is to protect customers, who all agree can exercise choice. The bill is intended to protect employees who do not have the discretion of entering or staying out. That said, I look forward to clubbing without smelling like an ashtray afterward.

Employees also have a choice. The fact that they don't *like* the choices they have, or are unwilling to make a choice, does not mean they don't have one.

But what about the dancers??? I can think of several at the Detroit clubs who are going to have the shakes, or be running outside regularly. "Finale" time at Bogart's is going to have them storming in through the doors to hop on stage.

Michigan's law sounds to be very strict. Of instance, if a bar has a beer garden, the garden is part of the liquor license and therefor non smoking. As it was explained to me, there just isn't any smoking at a bar anymore.

And I too love smoking cigars and usually take a cigar with me. I will be having a final April 30th cigar, probably a Padron 1926

columbus clubs have a connected smoker's patio.

I have been to one strip club in dayton and noticed they ignored the smoking ban. I don't know if smoking ban is state or city ban...I think it is state and dayton club simply did not care.

gmd,

You took the words right out of my mouth, but to sum it up...

As I stated, "Humans have the ability to read and make choices." This applies no matter if they are customer, owner, or employee. Perhaps the only people without the choice ud be "service" people. Such is life.

I don't wish to drive on roads with idiots that could kill me (I say this as I lay in bed recovering from injury when I was run off the road by one of the idiots.), but driving on these roads is also prt of life!

When I walked into Heartbreakers in Columbia, SC, last month, I noticed they had the "no smoking" ordinance posted behind the counter where you pay the cover. I walked in and there were still ashtrays at every table and the bar, and people were smoking. Not sure if they are just paying the fine or what.

I for one still believe in the whole "gentleman's club" vibe: alcohol, tobacco, and naked women.

I disagree with all of you. I don't smoke and whenever I would go to a club with smoking, to breathe in the smoke is just annoying. I don't care if people smoke, but please, not around me. We all just have to adjust to the new normal.

DD,

Let me understand this...

You feel we should all "adjust" to YOUR wants and wishes. Well guess what, I think you should adjust to mine! Now what?

I say we each do as we please. Seems like you should just go open a smoke free club to compete against a smoking club. I would bet your club would do worse, simply because of what jacka typed right above you!

I've been to Mons and 2001, both of which are non-smoking. It's nice to leave a club smelling only of dancer perfume and pussy. My buddy smokes and had no problem stepping outside to smoke.

Smoking intrudes on other people's health and happiness. So if I want to see strippers without driving the extra distance to Tampa, I have to suffer the stinging eyes and burning throat caused by smokers. Not to mention the extra dry-cleaning bills.

@Clubber----Mons Venus, 2001 Odyssey, and Penthouse Club are all non-smoking. Their business does not suffer.

A ban on smoking in all public buildings will be enacted state-by-state, I'm certain. What's the smoking percentage now, 25? Less? People are tired of enduring smoke.

pot,

Just for the record, when did you examine their books so that you can categorically state, "Their business does not suffer."?

Sounds like you missed a chance to open that smoke free club. Also, I see no Constitutional right for you to visit a SC, nor one that allows such oppressive control over the public.

The clean indoor air crowd that has championed smoking bans across the nation now claim that if you are in a smokey environment away from home, and you come home to your children, the carcinogen laced smoke/nicotine particles will jump off your clothes and into the lungs of your children.

These ban-advocate groups are getting pretty nasty with elected officials, so I expect to see more statewide bans in the coming years. For whatever reason, the common sense post a sign that says "we is smokin' herein" on the door approach hasn't done well as an argument for free choice.

At the end of the day, the only argument that sticks at all is the hazard to employees who allegedly have less choice in the matter.

Clubber-

It is my personal belief, based on observations, that the majority of strip club customers do not smoke, so if you adjust to everyone's desires, the non smokers win.

This is one area where the whole libertarian idea is plain wrong. There ought to be a right for everyone to breathe clean air and the government should come down hard on the smokers. Even the dancers who don't smoke (they do exist) ought to have that right.

@Clubber---I don't have to examine Mons' books when it's SRO every time I visit. Same for 2001 Odyssey.Penthouse Club is where the Bucs, Rays, and Lightning players hang out. I've also seen Jeter there. They're raking in the cash. Guys don't go to SCs to smoke. They go to ogle and grope hot young women.

DandyDan is right. Most people do not smoke. Smokers should have to adjust to the desires of the majority. FFS, go outside to smoke, just like at a restaurant.

I can still remember the good old days, when my small town family doctor smoked - while he was giving you an exam, lol.

But what about the dancers???

"Including you guys from other states that have instituted smoking bans?"

From what I've observed & read about states & provinces that have implemented indoor smoking bans, it doesn't seem to change things for the worse in the long term. Smokers can always go outside to get their fix of their favorite cancer stick.

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"The bill is intended to protect employees who do not have the discretion of entering or staying out. That said, I look forward to clubbing without smelling like an ashtray afterward."

Exactly.

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"Perhaps the only people without the choice ud be 'service' people"

...which is exactly the point of these kind of bans, moron.

"Well guess what, I think you should adjust to mine!"

Yours involves exposing people to a real cancer risk. It's about the public (especially workers) safety & health, period.

Remember when the USA was supposed to be a free country? DandyDan and his sort like to dictate to others how they should live their lives? If I choose to smoke, then any problems that come along with that should be mine to deal with. I don't need a nanny state looking out for me. For those who had such a problem with smoking in clubs/restaurants/etc....why didn't you open up smoke free clubs/restaurants/etc??? By your logic, all the best non-smoking staff and customers would come to you and you would make a mint. But no, you think it is better that no one anywhere should smoke inside.

Try to keep in mind when you employ this kind of thinking that you seem to like to partake in SCs. There are groups out there that think that the whole SC scene is "bad for you" and bad for the staff. How would you like them to take away your freedom of choice to attend these SCs? How would you like them to come and "save" the dancers from having to perform in these dens of sin.

I have no problem with people choosing their own way of life even if I don't agree with it...on two conditions.

1. Don't tell me how to live my life.
2. Don't do harm to others, especially children.

*steps off his soapbox*

pop,

Sorry, I didn't know you were all seeing and knowing like our village idiot. My apologies.

YAWN!

DD,

I see it just the opposite. Most DO smoke. That could be just a result of where one lives. I would bet that smoking statistics vary by local area.

@steve229..if you watch Mad Men, the doctors there smoke during exams..what a surprise that was when I saw it!

Like some others here, I enjoy a cigar occasionally when I visit a club. The 3 Platinum Plus clubs in South Carolina do have signs with the State law posted banning smoking, but all allow it from customers and dancers alike. North Carolina just enacted a similiar law which I understand also applies to strip clubs, even if it's a so-called "private" club. I haven't been to a club in NC in 2010 but I've heard there is no longer smoking allowed in the clubs. While I can live without the cigar and don't mind not smelling like an ashtray, it does make the excuses tougher when you can no longer say you were at a bar with a friend, client, etc. and that's why you smell like smoke.

Like a lot of things, it isn't going to drastically change our lives I don't think.

Clubber, national smoker rates are currently about 25%. It is a rare community where incidence of smokers is above 35%.

Otto,

And that matters why? Oh yes, it doesn't!

"Remember when the USA was supposed to be a free country?"

Don't worry...it still is.

"DandyDan and his sort like to dictate to others how they should live their lives?"

No, many of us are not out to ban smoking outright, just limit where one can smoke. Smoking DOES cause cancer yanno.

"If I choose to smoke, then any problems that come along with that should be mine to deal with."

Agreed. Of course, in process of dealing with "your problem", the rest of us will be chipping in to help pay for the treatment of "your problem" through our collective health insurance premiums & the like.

"For those who had such a problem with smoking in clubs/restaurants/etc....why didn't you open up smoke free clubs/restaurants/etc?"

Because the onus doesn't lie exclusively on us to protect the public health of the nation. You smokers & pro-smoking people act as if there's a Constitutional right to pollute the air anywhere that you can think of...wrong again!

"you think it is better that no one anywhere should smoke inside"

...so that both employees & customers are not constantly exposed to toxic smoke!

"Try to keep in mind when you employ this kind of thinking that you seem to like to partake in SCs. There are groups out there that think that the whole SC scene is 'bad for you' and bad for the staff."

Is there a public health issue at stake in having strip clubs around? I don't think so.

"2. Don't do harm to others, especially children"

...as long as those children aren't in restaurants that allow smoking in them...duuuuuuuhhhhhhh...
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"Most DO smoke."

No, they really don't old fool, but don't worry...you wouldn't know an actual fact is one came up & hit you in the face...ugh...

"And that matters why?"

Because YOU brought the issue up in the first place, and now you simply don't like the facts as there are, moron.

YAWN!!

A lot of strippers I know smoke. Some claim they started smoking when they started stripping lol. It helps them stay skinny. A smoking ban is just a smoke and mirror PR tactic to make it seem like the city is doing something. Smoking will still go on in a smoker's patio, which will be connected directly to the strip club. Plenty of second hand smoke will come into the club. I know this because of Columbus and their smoking ban.

ss1,

Most all liberal ideas are "feel good" ideas, and NEVER look at the problems, results, and destruction they cause.

"A smoking ban is just a smoke and mirror PR tactic to make it seem like the city is doing something."

No one is saying that restricting where people can smoke will effectively reduce smoking. It's about restricting smoking to areas outside of indoor public areas so that people that don't smoke aren't negatively affected by toxic smoke. Heck, studies have shown that taxing smoking isn't even an effective deterrent to smoking...it's just another way to raise money for govt. operations IMO.

"Smoking will still go on in a smoker's patio, which will be connected directly to the strip club. Plenty of second hand smoke will come into the club. I know this because of Columbus and their smoking ban."

Look, if the location where smokers can smoke is restricted to an outdoor area, then the problem of toxic indoor air pollution from smoking is basically solved. Complaining about some small amount of smoke that might drift into a club from a patio is like complaining when some small amount of cold air drifts into the club briefly on a cold night.

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"Most all liberal ideas are 'feel good' ideas, and NEVER look at the problems, results, and destruction they cause."

There aren't any "problems or destruction" with restricting where people can smoke indoors, period.

YAWN!!!

Except that it's only be government fiat that private property, like a bar, is called "a public place." Unfortunately, all those who have no stake in the business, financial or otherwise, have decided to jump on that bandwagon so that they can force other people to give them what they want, whether those other people want to or not.

VA has recently passed a smoking ban which the Candy Bar found a way to get around. Because the LD area uses a seperate vetinilation system the management made it the non-smoking area, while the main floor where the customers sit is a smoking area.

@georgemicrodong----so, if that's the case, what would a SC have to do to be considered a "private place"? Charge a membership? If it's that simple I think every club would do it. The law must be more specific than that.

"so, if that's the case, what would a SC have to do to be considered a 'private place'? Charge a membership? If it's that simple I think every club would do it. The law must be more specific than that."

Exactly. This issue has been litigated all before. Even so-called "private clubs" where one has to be a member to enter are subject to these kind of indoor anti-smoking laws.