Don't Party Outside the Law in NYC

I've heard of this same crap being pulled in the Phoenix area. Cops arresting dudes for merly talking to the undercover whore. Get near her and say anything - busted.

That's outrageous, getting busted when simply trying to make a civilian pickup. That's clearly entrapment! It's like trying to make sex illegal.

I've been in San Francisco and apparent hookers offer a "date". But other women, doing stuff like carrying a bag of groceries into their front door, ask me where I'm going and if they can come along. I don't know if they are off duty hookers, or if they are just friendly girls who have adapted to the vibes of the neighborhood. Some day I've got to ask some of them. Probably they'll just tell me that they can be whatever I want them to be.

I didn't notice in your article if they have a recording of the verbal exchange. Of course if they have it your private attorney or public defender can get it through discovery. But I hope you can sue them for lots of money, and I hope this whole matter get's news coverage.

You know, most of the police excesses are directed against alleged hookers, not johns. So it never gets publicity. Sometimes the women will have a record, but that alone does not make the bust or a shake down legitimate.

This is of course always going to be the problem with prostitution busts, that to make them they have to shred the constitution.

Please do keep us posted. And you were most certainly not "partying outside the law."

Back when I first joined this forum, I talked much about San Francisco DA Terence Hallinan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terence_Ha…

Hallinan is known for sending the message that they aren't going to enforce in strip clubs. So while Jim and Artie Mitchell always prohibited FS and fired girls who violated, when Hallinan came in, Market St. Cinema and New Century started building these totally private rooms and the word was out that anything goes.

It was also Hallinan who took the same posture towards AMPs, so while San Francisco has always had great AMPs, now they proliferated and the girls got bold and brazen, and they started dressing the way I like, slutty.

Now the successors to Hallinan and Mayor Willey Brown have not continued his policies. But there was still more to Hallinan.

Recently I was reading some of:

http://www.amazon.com/Erotic-City-Sexual…

I learned something I had not known, that it was also Hallinan who went to new extremes in cracking down on street prostitution, and especially in going after johns. Hallinan really destroyed the street scene.

People here on TUSCL have talked about the difference between liberal and conservative politicos here. What I have read in multiple places is that conservatives see the prostitute as a criminal and social menace. I believe that if you read the news articles posted here about the actions against Platinum Plus in Greenville South Carolina, this comes across. And I've seen things like this closer to home too, in San Mateo County. LE talks about having "dancers under investigation". What they don't say though was that to conduct this investigation that LE was bringing their own condoms.

They see prostitutes as criminals. But in a more liberal jurisdiction like San Francisco, they see the prostitute as a victim.

In John Hubner's "Bottom Feeders", it explains who it was like this when they prosecuted Jim and Artie Mitchell.

http://www.amazon.com/Bottom-Feeders-Fre…

So Hallinan was taking a harm reduction approach, seeing that AMPs and SCs were indoors and hence safer than the street.

Okay, but the street is more politically bothersome to other people, when they have their noses rubbed in it.

https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

So in a way, Hallinan was just vindicating those with prejudicial attitudes. And those on the street tended to be those women without the looks for SCs or AMPs, and the johns with less money. So he was locking up the bottom end, and this is usually how it works.

But the way he was able to go after johns with an unprecedented ferocity was by using this pretrial diversion program, a re-education program.

Named after this Norma Hotaling, a former prostitute become morally righteous anti-prostitution crusader:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/No…

http://www.walnet.org/csis/groups/swav/j…

But of course what this amounts to is just a gimmick to make alleged johns and hookers decline to fight their case. And so there is never any political cost to it.

Thanks for your article.

SJG
https://sites.google.com/site/sjgportal/…

Joe Bonamassa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQxS7eEz…

Damn that's fucked bro..feels like a police state...you need to move...

I herd Detroit can't afford cops so maybe its safer their..funny to even say that

Im a southern boy so yea i say give me my AK and my land out in the sticks...cops dont bother with ppl out their....well not yet

Thanks for the warning and story mang

Damn. That's messed up. Of course new York cops are dirty. Fucking corrupt police.

idiots - you paid a $120 fine but to go in front of a judge, and spend 2 days in the clink, costs the city a lot more than $120.

So to summarize, you started by walking down a path known for prostitution. Then you decided to stop and "ask the time" from a girl who was just hanging around on this known prostitute drag. Then, you further decided to hit on this girl hanging out in a place where prostitutes hang out because she looked "relatively clean" (interesting standard to use for a civvie girl, lol). Does that just about sum it all up? ;)

Now look, I'm on your side. I think the prostitution laws in this country are a joke. I also trust the NYPD about as far as i could throw the fattest patrol officer.

But I have to say that you didn't exactly make it difficult for them to stretch the story just a little in order to justify the arrest. Honestly dude, and I say this with nothing but good intentions, you need to protect yourself a little better than that, especially in this day and age.

Sorry to hear that, fuck tha police! They are some corrupt ass motherfuckers.

@rickdugan well I regularly, venture down this street. I'm not going to avoid it just because hookers and drug dealers patrol it. It's actually a residential area so people actually live there and drive their cars in and out of their garages all the time. ANd there do be hoes that be "looking" clean, so its a tricky situation to just assume one is a cop. And some of these hoes do be younger than expected (not below 18 of course). I just never met a trap before is all. But I probably will just stick with the strip club for a very long time.

Estafador is his early 20s so he does not have the advantage of life-experience many of us do; still he got done wrong.

Unfortunately – as it often happens in many cases in America; justice is only as good as the justice one can afford – if one is guilty but has a good lawyer; one can get off; if one is innocent and does not have $$$ for a good lawyer; often times one may not have a chance.

I'm no lawyer but the f'ing police needs to have proof a crime happened and talking to a person on the street does not constitute a crime as far as I fucking know – police are often stupid as fuck – they do too much shit to fuck-over the community especially the least powerful – everyone knows a lot of the shit they get away w/ in poor neighborhoods w/ poor people no fucking way they can get away with in middle-case and upper-middle-class neighborhoods – they know they can step on the poor and defenseless and thus they do it – if Esta had the means to hire a decent lawyer; no f'ing way they would find him guilty of anything.

Doesn't seem to have a lot of common sense, and the asking for the time thing sounds fishy. He's also talked about getting street hookers before so that doesn't put it outside realm of possibility he could have asked for more than the "time". Better just avoid that type of situation and just kerp walking, you dont want to end up like LDK exchanging hj's with a tranny hooker.

Need to be a law that the cops need to get you on tape for this kind of a bullshit case. No excuse for them not to.

damn prudes. and hypocritical politics.