The Time Value Of A $5 Table Dance Compared To A $10 Dance.
bengalhawk
Tennessee
The initial thinking behind the $5 dance is this. The cheaper the dance, the more likely you may try out a dancer to see what she can do. It's a lot easier to turn down a dance when it cost $10 and sometimes $20 dollars out on the floor. At $5, however, that amount lowers your defenses somewhat and makes it easier to try out a girl, or even try out multiple girls for a few minutes. If you like them, you'll keep them around longer. If you don't, you're only out of $5, and you can move onto the next girl.
The main issue though, is the DJ. Will he let the song play out or at least 3/4ths of the way out? Or will he cut the song short after just 1 verse? Or is he even in the booth at all, and the club is simply playing a mixtape CD?
So let's really break this down to see how a cut off can affect the amount you're spending, and if it's a lower bargain than getting a full $10 song. To illustrate how a DJ may cut up a song, I'll use the 2Chainz featuring Nicki Minaj stripper anthem of 2014 . . "I Luv Them Strippas"
If you were at a club that played the entire song for $10, this song would last almost 4 minutes ( 3:57 ), which is about the average time for hip-hop songs. ( I say anywhere from 3:30 - 4:45 is the average length to a song ). Keep that in mind as I go through the different places in which a DJ may cut the song.
(1) - 1st Chorus: ( 0 to :55 ) . . . actual beat drops at :28
(2) - 2 Chainz verse: ( :55 to 1:51 )
(3) - 2nd Chorus: ( 1:51 to 2:19 )
(4) - Nicki's verse: ( 2:19 to 3:15 )
(5) - last Chorus: ( 3:15 to 3:42 )
(6) - Nicki's ad lib: ( 3:42 - 3:57 )
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(1) - 2Chaniz starts out singing the chorus of the song, which runs for ( 55 seconds ), before actually starting his first rap verse.
Here's the problem though. DJ's at $5 clubs routinely mix or blend songs together. So part of this ( 55 seconds ) may be playing in the background of the last song that is playing. Within this 55 seconds, the actual BEAT of the song doesn't drop until the ( 28 second ) mark. At this point, the DJ will fade out or end the last song, and you'll just be hearing 2Chainz. That's how you'll know that the other song has officially ended.
(2) - 2Chainz official 1st verse starts at ( 55 seconds ) and runs to ( 1:51 ).
Keep this in mind. If you hear another beat trying to blend in before 2Chainz finishes his verse, the DJ is about to cut the song here. If he does cut the song right here, he has played almost 1/2 of the song, thus, giving you the value equivalent of $5 for 1/2 that song. But if you believe that song REALLY started at the ( 28 second mark ), you only received ( 1:23 minutes ) worth of the song, which greatly cheapens the value of the $5 song. In actuality, you only got like $3.75 worth.
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Sometimes, it is to your advantage that a DJ actually LIKES the song that he's playing, and not just playing it just to be mixing it with other tunes. If he likes it, he'll extend the song. If he doesn't, you are in danger of him cutting the song extremely short. So let's say he likes "I Luv Them Strippas", and wants to extend the song.
(3) - 2Chainz begins to sing the chorus again at ( 1:51 ) and goes to ( 2:19 ).
If he's extended the song to this point with no new song blending, he's probably going to play the 2nd verse of the song, featuring Nicki Minaj. At this point, you have received the FULL WORTH of a $5 dance, which only is about 2 - 2:30 minutes worth of a song. Expecting a DJ to play the full song for $5 is just foolish. It may happen on occasion, but you shouldn't expect it.
(4) Nicki's verse runs from ( 2:19 ) to ( 3:15 ). Most DJs will let her finish her verse and may start blending in a new song toward the end of the verse. If you have received over 3 minutes worth of a song, you have definitely received the full value of a $5 table dance song. Anything extra after this point is gravy.
(5) If the DJ hasn't started mixing in another song by the end of Nicki's verse, he'll definitely do it by the middle of the last chorus. At this point almost 80% of the song has played and you have received almost the time equivalent of a $10 song.
(6) Nicki's 15 second ad lib will only be played if the DJ is doing something else, or is about to stop the music to talk about something ( or somebody ).
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Your main nemesis at the club with $5 dances, isn't necessarily a DJ that cuts songs short. It's a DJ that will play a mixtape CD, instead of doing the actual mixing of songs himself. Mix CDs are notorious for just playing one verse + one chorus of a song, before mixing in another song. That's where you can get that 1:30 minute song length instead of a regular DJ extending the song for 2:30 - 3 minutes. A mixtape like this one could KILL YOU at a $5 club. Some of these songs aren't even going 1:30 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc4x5sB0…
And in the first 10 minutes of this, I counted 6 songs. That's a song roughly every 1:40 minutes . . or the equivalent of $14 every 4 minutes.
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If you really want to break this down, use your cellphone stopwatch to see how long the songs are before a new song fully starts to play. I may do this on my next trip to a club, just to give a more accurate breakdown of how much money I'm spending per song or per lap session.
Most people would think that $10 per song every 5 minutes is the going rate at most clubs. I think that's a little high, unless the DJ purposely stops the music to talk in between songs. That will extend your time. But if the DJ is playing full songs, then immediately playing the next song, that rate may be more like $10 per song every 4 - 4:30 minutes.
If this is the case, and if you're getting at least 2:30 minutes for every $5 song, that might be a slightly better value than 4 minutes for every $10 song. And if the DJ stops playing the music for a few minutes to talk about somebody not tipping, that actually plays into your advantage.
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The $5 table dance isn't in place to give you a bargain on a lap dance by playing a full song. It's in place to entice you to buy an initial dance, with the option to continue or stop the dance after the 1st song. To the dancer, even dancing for just 2 - 3 minutes for $5, is worth more than her sitting around and not collecting money. The very good dancers or females with great bodies, can at least get $10 - $20 out of a person, if he or she is buying $5 dances.
If she's dancing poorly, end that session with the quickness. If she's great, keep her as long as you want and give her a tip afterwards. At a $5 club, she'll either spread the word about you, or another dancer may be watching you the entire time, just waiting for her turn on you.
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One guy I discussed this with via PM. He said about $5 versus $10, you get what you pay for. This never made any sense to me. As I see it, it is just about time and the level of privacy, and what the girl wants to do with you. And at $5 it is hard to refuse the chance to find out.
The amount is arbitrary. Out here at the Sunnyvale Cheetahs it is $40 for a zero privacy dance where a bouncer will be right by to make sure the no touching rule is strictly adhered to.
It is a joke! But the club is between a rock and a hard place. If they allow touching or privacy, our DA's office will shut them down and bring felony charges. They will assign more people to the case than they would to a murder one trial.
But then if the money is less the girls will split, because they know that they are as hot looking as the ones in San Francisco.
$5 or $10 with good privacy, yes. But $20, limited interest from me. $40, no way. Only reason to do it is just to flatter a girl whom you want an outside relationship with.
Now one thing, when the money is real low, then what that means is that the girls are working there for another reason, to set up OTC's. Once place I was in had $5 air dances. The girls would smile into your face up close and listen intently to every word you said. Then if you mentioned where you lived, they would interject, "I live in San Jose" or "I live in San Carlos".
The first time I figured that she must be getting a little bit tipsy and so she doesn't realize how that sounds. But then I saw the pattern repeated and I saw the girls leaving after they had danced for a guy.
Since they have changed it to $20, as they are trying to clean up, under pressure from LE.
At other places I've just handed the girl $20 if she is sitting with me. This way she doesn't have to cut the money. If she is sitting with me I might be able to touch her a little bit, where as in the air dance area there is a minimum distance rule and it is enforced. At least sitting with me, I can talk to her. From time spent in strip clubs, I'm good at that.
In other places, if the girl is sitting with you and basically anything goes, try getting physical with her right there. Dance booths and VIP Rooms are also toll gates. No reason to use them unless really necessary.
At these $5 and $10 dance places you speak of, what would happen if you got the girl to sit with you and just gave her $5 or $10? Suppose you started trying to get physical with her right there? Best would be to get into an intense makeout session with her. Then and only then, take her to the VIP Room to continue.
See that way you actually are better able to lead the interaction. You haven't prepaid for anything.
Now in San Francisco, it should be able to be like that. But most of these places are the modern version of a clip joint. So they try to force all the action into the booths. They have convinced the dancers that they make more $ this way. But this really is not true. Dancers who have worked in wilder and woolier environments know that the more free form, the better. In those more extreme environments, they just come and sit on your lap, without asking, and then start licking your neck and nibbling on your ear, and see how you are going to respond.
Actually where lap dancing originated, at MBOT, it meant a girl sitting on your lap. What happened with that varied widely. But the original group of dancers agreed that it should be for $1 per minute.
No booths or backrooms, and this is what helped Jim and Artie win a jury acquittal. If they had been using booths or backroom then, that would have been the end of it.
Mostly the booths and backrooms just take the initiative away from you, and they help the club take more of the money while actually limiting how far things go because you have to let the dancer drive it.
SJG
Rolling Stones, Chicago 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2qSXzJi…
I’m a white Hispanic guy out of Miami but my preference is def for black dancers and thus why I hit all-black SCs 90% of the time (and I SC a lot).
The cut-songs are absolutely the #1 pet-peeve I have w/ any SC and in particular black SCs.
When I first joined TUSCL I was not into writing reviews but then I started writing reviews of most of my visits and I would always complain in my reviews about the cut-songs in the black SCs. To me; it does not feel as bad as it used to be (in the clubs I visit in Miami) and sometimes I think maybe ownership or management may have read the reviews and complaints and changed their tune; but probably this was not the case.
Pretty much all South Florida clubs where l live are $25/song except for the black clubs which most are $5/song and sometimes $10. I don’t expect to get the same song length for a $5 song as I do for a $25 song.
Most songs are around 4 minutes in length and I would not be happy paying $25 for anything less than 4 minutes but in many $25 clubs they play songs at 3 to 3.5 minutes (rare to find clubs that play songs for 4 minutes) – in fact; I think a fair value for any dance that is at least $20 is for it to be 5 minutes long.
For a $5 dance; I think a fair length would be around 3 minutes.
IDK how the DJ in a black club decides when to mix in a new song but the bottom line is he is not in a dance club and songs should be mixed in when the previous song has played for an adequate amount of time and not “whenever” he thinks is a good time to mix in a new song – the strip club is not a dance club and there are customers paying for those songs and a customer’s value should not be at the whim of the DJ.
Not all areas are the same and I have visited ATL and see a bit of a difference w.r.t. the black clubs there. In Miami; it appears to me that 80 to 90 % of the custies are just “hanging out” and not buying any dances – so cut-songs will not be an issue for the majority of the clientele.
It “appears” to me that the black SC environment is one much more of a social event/gathering where dudes routinely hangout there to socialize (e.g. play pool; drink; smoke; dance to the music; etc) and not buy a lot of dances (and IME most they don’t’ buy any dances).
Based on the above; it appears to me the DJ thinks he is the center of attention at the SC (instead of the dancers) and that his main responsibility/job is to “keep the party going” for the vast majority that are there to party and socialize; with no concern for those that are buying dances.
So it seems the DJ is concerned with having a party vibe and it is not on his radar than when he is doing all his mixing in order “to keep the party going” he is royally fucking it up for those that are trying to buy dances.
I have never been to one; but supposedly there are clubs where dances are by time (using a timer) rather than by song – which I think works out best.
Personally – I can’t stand the fucking DJs in strip clubs – most seem like obnoxious dicks that think they are more talented than they really are and think they make the club and are responsible for the strip club’s success when as far as I’m concerned it is about the dancers.
I would prefer a jukebox or some kind of tech machine that plays the songs to an exact length and each song is of the same length vs jumping all over the place – even if they cut song; it’s ok as long as they let it play for an adequate/reasonable length of time and each song is the same length and of adequate length.
As far as I’m concerned; the DJ is dead weight and more often than not the only thing he manages to do for me is annoy the hell out of me and in addition dancers need to tip him so he is just an annoying waste of $$$ as far as I’m concerned.
I’ve been on TUSCL almost daily for the last 3 years and I normally read a few of the reviews published everyday – I don’t recall reading a review stating the reason the reviewer went to the SC was b/c of the DJ.
I grew up in Miami but I started SCing when I moved to Dallas in 2000 – Dallas does not have $5 dance clubs and dances in black SCs are $20 just like in the mixed clubs.
I moved back to Miami at the end of 2009 but did not start SCing regularly in Miami `till early 2011 - so I was not really used to the $5 club scene.
I started timing songs when I was at a small black club in Miami about 2 or 2.5 years ago and a dancer had danced for me like for 2 minutes and told me we were already on song #4 – I was pissed and like wtf – I stopped the dances; paid her; and for the first time started timing the songs w/ my cell ph and fucking ay the “Mr Party DJ” would cut some songs even at fucking 30 seconds – I fucking left the club w/ most of my $$$.
On an occasion or 2; I have spoken with the “manager” about the cut-songs and I get the “he shouldn’t be doing that I’ll talk to him” – and the DJ proceeds to keep doing the same shit except maybe instead of cutting the song @ 30 seconds he would do it at 1 or 1.5 minutes – which still piseed me off.
I kinda notice the song-cutting shit is often worse during the nightshift especially when it’s a packed house like on a Fr or Sat night – but have noticed it during the dayshift also but seems a bit less common/bad during the dayshift.
And then, having found one it is going well with, you can take her into the VIP for an agreed upon time interval measured with the clock, not for a number of songs.
Have you tried this?
SJG
Stones, Poland, 1998
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6o39x7S…
IME – the mileage I get in the $5 Miami black clubs does not match; but exceeds; the mileage I get in the $25 mixed clubs.
“… The initial thinking behind the $5 dance is this. The cheaper the dance, the more likely you may try out a dancer to see what she can do …”
I assume by “initial thought” you mean from a customer’s POV and not from the club’s POV. But yeah – I love black women/dancers and I love variety; and at $5 a pop; I can get to try most of the dancers in da house that I find attractive.
Although from a fairness standpoint; and not necessarily from a custy’s standpoint; I think $5 is just too low and $10 (for good length songs); would be a more fair price point. I know many would not like my statement; but is what I honestly feel. And @ $10/dance; perhaps this would entice better looking dancers to dance where they may not do it for $5 – not saying this is the way it is – just a thought.
“… The $5 table dance isn't in place to give you a bargain on a lap dance by playing a full song. It's in place to entice you to buy an initial dance, with the option to continue or stop the dance after the 1st song …”
Again – IDK if you meant this from the custy’s POV or the clubs POV/reason for having $5 dances – I always “assumed” it was b/c most of the clientele at black clubs was unwilling or unable to pay the going rate of $20 to $25 per dance.
Front Room! Just between you and the dancer!
Don't pay for the booth or VIP until really necessary, like because your pants are going to come down.
In some of the most extreme dives I've read about on Black Strip Clubs .net, they don't even bother with VIP Rooms. You just take the girl off to the couches in a dark corner and complete what's been started.
SJG
Although I partake every once in a while; I’m usually not into extras nor sticking w/ just one dancer at the club – so the one-one VIP thing is not my M.O. except on certain occasions.
I like variety and my M.O. is to get lots of good-quality dances from as many different dancers that are available and I find personally attractive – thus due to my M.O.; cut-songs really “cut” into my value.
What I *have* thought about in times when the song-cutting is too egregious is to tell the dancer I’ll pay her by time instead of by song – i.e. I would put my cell ph in stopwatch mode and then divide the total time by 3 implying I’d pay for every 3 minutes – so if she danced for me for 10 minutes; then divided by 3 that would be 3.33 songs and I would just round it up to 4 since I normally tip on top of the songs given anyway – but I have yet to do this b/c I think it may come across as a bit weird or petty to dancers.
Better if it can be that way, just between you and the dancer.
SJG
When you pay for something other than dances; then it’s usually for a block of time and for the particular service; and not a song by song thing - so cut-songs do not usually figure into mileage or extras.
Cut-songs are usually an issue if you want dances – if you are looking for something else then it’s not an issue – but I like getting dances and doing something else in order to get better value is not necessarily a solution for me.
So I'll give you my experience. I only found out about these black clubs in Miami at the beginning of last year. Prior my stripclubbing was clubs in Broward County(Ft Laud area). These black clubs are about 30 miles from me.
I couldn't believe how cheap they were. I used to spend hundreds on $20 lap dances(b/f they went up to $25). Eventually I got tired to paying $20-25 for 3-4minutes of dances and would only do $10 table dances at the Broward Cty clubs with an occasional lap dance for the right girl.
These $5 dances are such a deal price and mileage wise.
The one interesting thing I noticed is now I will often spend more at $5 black clubs than white clubs. At white clubs I will get a few dances at $10 per while at black clubs I will get several sets of dances equalling $20 or $40 per girl.
At a white club I mostly get dances from only one girl per visit while at a black club I will get dances from 2-3 girls and if they are good will go 4-8 dances.
So I spend more but of course I get way more bang for my buck.
As I'm walking to my car I'm thinking to myself I could have got approx the same thing for $20 at a black club.
And not to mention that more often than not the ebony honeys in the $5 spots seem to really appreciate the $$$ you spend on them (especially when you give them an extra tip even if it’s a small one).
VIP in the black clubs to me are more valuable than at the mixed clubs. I've gotten high mileage dances and extras at a fraction of the other club's prices...often times for only $100 or less and that includes the room fee. What I like about many of the VIP in the black Atlanta clubs is that you pay-per-song rather than for time which often turns out cheaper for me once my mission in VIP is accomplished.
So the work around is to use the front room instead, and do as much as you can with her there. Then and only then opt for back rooms or OTC. But in some of these places there really is no limit on what you can do in the front room.
SJG
House of the Rising Sun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugmn1vgW…
They have titled this as Pink Floyd, but to me it sounds like the Detroit group, Frijid Pink.
As for the OP's point, much as I admire his analysis, what bothers me more about cut songs is the intrusiveness of the cut, not just the shorter clock time of the dance. I would rather pay the same for a dance to a full 3:30 song than a longer song that jarringly gets cut at 4:00, making me feel ripped off.