Are strippers immoral?

Just compare the number of times a stripper will try and rip you off compared to a checkout clerk at the supermarket or a waitress in a restaurant and that will answer your question.

" In my experience, strippers - as a group - are no more or less unethical than the people I encounter in everyday life"

You must hang around some real low lifes. No my experience.

I would rank strippers, as a group, just slightly above female prisoners in terms of ethics. In fact, many strippers are former female prisoners!

"Do some strippers lie, cheat, steal, and do drugs? Yeah, and so do your neighbors."

It's a question extent. Strippers do it far more often and with more serious consequences than my neighbors or co-workers. If you say it's the same then YOU need a better job or to live in a better neighborhood.

" think there are a lot of guys on here who have unrealistic expectations from strippers ("but she said I was special!"), and when they don't get it, their feelings and ego get hurt"

If we are going to psycho-analyze things, then I say the guys who say strippers are no more immoral are in serious denial. Why? A couple of possibilites:

a) they too are way down the social moral ladder, so can't even see the difference (again they should get a better job, start hanging with better people, move to a better hood).

b) they would rather think the strippers they around as OK or at least "no worse than average", so they can feel better about themselves and the time/money they are putting into their hobby.

Number of times a stripper has tried to rip me off in 20 years: 3, that I can remember.

Perhaps the problem is not my home or neighborhood, but rather the quality of strip club that you frequent.

I rarely get ripped off at strip clubs, perhaps I am just lucky.

Am I far down the social/moral ladder? Nope, quite the contrary. Believe it or not, an elevated social and economic stature is not insurance against immorality.

"but rather the quality of strip club that you frequent."

You're talking with an admitted troll zorro...he's doesn't go to strip clubs...he's just here to pick a fight with you are whomever else he can rant at...just ignore him...trolls hate that...lol...

Thanks for the info.

Zorro

All I can say is: I certainly hope so!

That would be just my luck - stranded on a desert island with the world's most moral stripper...

O.

Well we clearly have vastly different experiences, zorro. Three times in 20 years is extremely hard to believe. Here the number is literally countless. Maybe things really do vary that much by geography, or perhaps I am better able at detecting rip off attempts. (i.e. You might have got ripped off, she overcountered, overcharged but you didn't know it.)

"elevated social and economic stature is not insurance against immorality"

Of course not. Just look at all folks on Wall Street who bear loads of responsibility for the current financial crisis.

However, I would certainly trust a random co-worker to watch after my wallet for an hour or two over a random stripper. How about you?

p.s. Don't believe the shit MisterGay says. Here is just a mindless troll who think he can post whatever bullshit, idiocy he likes and people will believe it. Just count how many posts he makes which don't involve (feeble) attacks on other posters.

"Here is just a mindless troll who think he can post whatever bullshit, idiocy he likes and people will believe it. Just count how many posts he makes which don't involve (feeble) attacks on other posters."

LOL...project much troll?? Too funny...now be a good troll and go post another attack thread against someone here that NO ONE will respond to...but you...LOL!!

MisterGay: you and parody are clearly the trolls of this board. Do YOU project much? And neither of you even has much skill at it.
But you, MisterGay, are by far the least skillful.

A little advice. If you really must do something (troll like you do), at least try to do it well. Heck, I almost miss njcsfan, whose troll ass we seem to have permanently run off this board. At least, he showed the occasion flash of finesse.

Anyway, it's good you realize you can't defeat me in open battle. Go join njcsfan on the troll heap of TUSCL. And, as expected, remember... MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!

Bobbyl, given the avearge rates of white collar workplace crime and the kind of stuff that regularly goes missing in my workplace, I'd trust the random stripper.

After an hour or two with her my wallet would probably be empty anyway.

So far the votes are

Strippers >= morally the rest of society: 2
Strippers < morally the rest of society: 1

So the strippers are winning. But our sample size is small. Let's get some more votes in.

A funny thing about MisterGay, I think he's propensity to call others "projectors" is just a consequence of his own projection. i.e. MisterGay is the ultimate projector himself, but claims that others are, b/c he wants to criticize that fact about himself.

ozymandias: LMAO! THE WORLD'S MOST MORAL STRIPPER!!! BAHAHAHA!!!

The question is: "Are strippers immoral?"

First you have to decide what 'Moral' and 'Immoral' is. I for one will not frequent strip clubs after I am married (unless she was ok with it), but I know some who do and lie. I do not judge them, but I would not consider it Moral to lie to your wife and go to strip clubs behind her back. Although time will tell, as marriages are long and not having been married that long, I might change my mind later...which is why I do not judge.

But I digress, are STRIPPERS moral? What Moral authority will we use to determine their Morality? The Law, the Bible, the Koran? Or perhaps what just what is Right and Wrong.

If a Stripper promises one thing and delivers it with no bait and switch or upselling, I would consider her to be 'Moral', but do I think she's leading a Moral lifestyle? I don't know.

Perhaps she works as a stripper because she has a crazy-ex-con boyfriend who chases her around the country and it's the only job that makes her enough money to stay on the run.

Perhaps she comes from a broken home where her father regularly had sex with her when her mother was at the store, and so only sees herself as a plaything for men's amusement.

Perhaps she's a lesbian who HATES men, and enjoys using her body (that she'll NEVER let THEM use) to take as much money as she can from them.

According to the Kinsey Institute, more than 50% of strippers are in lesbian relationships with their co-workers. Why? Think about it. If you had men hounding you ALL DAY for sex, would you really want to go home to another man who wants sex? I have no idea, although as a guy I can say, "HELLS YEA!"

A better comparison for us is Gyno's who lose interest in sex because they have their heads up women's Vagina's LITERALLY all day long.

As far as Trolls go, I think if you get into a fist fight with a skunk, you'll both end up smelly. Also, consider that Trolls have warts. ONE punch from a troll can give you warts on your face. I agree that it is MUCH better to Click the 'ignore' button on anyone you perceive as a troll...Warts are GROSS!

"According to the Kinsey Institute, more than 50% of strippers are in lesbian relationships with their co-workers. "

Sounds fishy. Got a reference?

Well well....I really have to say Bobbyl that I am not personally hurt by your likening strippers to "just above female inmates"...however it is an ignorant statement.
I grew up in a family of lawyers...my dad, uncle, grandpa...all lawyers...I was a Legal Assistant and I have to say after hanging out with that crowd, when I started dancing I really didn't see anything I hadn't already been around...major difference...strippers are more open with what they do...I have had a customer hand me 2 grand in cash and fall asleep in a booth because they were up on coke too long. In your small minded opinion, I would rip him off, correct? However I sat there with him until he woke up because I didn't want the OTHER girls to rip him off...free will governs what EVERYONE does...if someone doesn't have morals...they don't have morals. It doesn't matter if they are a stripper or a priest. I really don't think it is fair to generalize a group of people like that. And if that really is how you think of strippers it seems like you would stay away from them...and surely not be posting on a site dedicated to strip clubs...perhaps you need to visit some more upscale clubs.

Ah, yes, the classical misrepresentation. I talk about averages, and you misrepresent it as if I said "every single one". As I've many times, so strippers are pretty much normal people with normal people. But, on average, as a group they well below average in many ways: sense of morals, intelligence, education, etc.

Heck there are certainly female prisoners who are moral people and don't deserve to be in jail. Maybe they got busted for smoking a joint? Does that mean on average that I think female prisoners are as moral as the rest of the population? No way!

And, I know at least a couple of strippers I would have no problem trusting a couple of grand with. No more qualms than a co-worker. But the average stripper? Forget it. That money would be, essentially, toast!

Hehe... Using lawyers a reference group for "normal moral people" too funny!

Ok fair enough...

Some lawyers pad bills and overcharge, some doctors perform unnecessary surgery, some priests abuse young boys, some public officials take bribes, some scientists fake results, some engineers cut corners and some strippers cheat and steal. Who's pure?

Here's a Divisive one!

So who has better Morals, the Stripper or the Customer? Hmmm?

Lets say that Both the Stripper AND the Customer are single so as to make sure both are balanced. We all know lawyers don't have morals, so that's too easy. ;) lol J/K

SuperDude That hit's me VERY close to home!

I had a Dentist give me fillings when I did NOT need them. My next dentist looked at my X-Rays and told me he'd be surprised if I EVER need fillings because of my bone density and tooth enamel thickness or something? He went so far as to check who my last dentist was and REPORT HIM! O_O

LOL!!!!! I like what superdude said...and I am laughing right now so at least i am amused since I can't sleep
good job

"it's good you realize you can't defeat me in open battle."

More crazy talk from an insane troll...too funny...

"I think he's propensity to call others 'projectors' is just a consequence of his own projection ... he wants to criticize that fact about himself."

Now your spinning around in circles troll...no more troll feeding for you here Bobby-boy/Dougster...bye-bye now...LOL!

"however it is an ignorant statement"

...which is merely meant to draw you into an argument with his troll behind...don't take the bait...starve the troll!

"And if that really is how you think of strippers it seems like you would stay away from them...and surely not be posting on a site dedicated to strip clubs"

The thing is poor Booby-boy has already admitted before that he needs contact with the very strippers that he loves to look down his nose at because he sometimes "feels blue"...awwwww...the poor troll...

In seriousness - and I say this based on extensive experience rather than "studies" - strippers are drawn from a surprisingly various cross-section of society.

Also, to the issue of "many have been prisoners", I will point out that in most states (any states I am aware of, at least), you can't get a dancing license if you've had a felony conviction; so actually, strippers as "a class" will have a low density of ex-cons relative to the population as a whole. So basing presumed morals from that we'd have to say strippers, as a class, are MORE moral than average! Indeed, at least in Georgia, even if there is a felony case *pending*, it's not possible to get licensed to dance.

I have known many trustworthy strippers, and many who are downright sociopathic in their self-centeredness and willingness to betray... on the other hand, the worst I've ever been "ripped off" was by a business partner in a publishing venture - she "borrowed" $70,000 from a company account - and SHE was an experienced editor and journalist with a PhD from Columbia. Quite far removed from stripperdom.

I'm often amused by the weird - even fetishistic - need to classify strippers as some kind of "other". The fact is, most strippers are younger, ARE uneducated, yet make far more money than the average customer does... and a lot of guys resent this. A smart stripper (and most are) can make $100-150k easily, and when said stripper is some 19 year old girl, the 40 year old guy who's tipping her off his $60k salary can always try to place himself in a superior position by assuming she's some morally bankrupt slut...

... and she may well be. Or not.

There are probably upwards of 100,000 strippers in the US - enough to qualify as a demographic group, yet one unexplored by census takers or sociologists - and trying to define analytic categories for them is as good a definition of "folly" as you'll find.

O.

They do run a background check here in Houston before you get your license...no drug, prostitution or felony charge or they simply deny you. It appears there are more smart people online tonight than I had previously thought.

I'm blushing!

O.

Going back to the original question, it all depends on how you define morality. But even then, I don't know which type of morality you mean. In the Judeo-Christian tradition, they would be, but in a universal sense, I don't really see why they would be. Individual strippers may be (there are a number who have attempted to steal from me, mostly by overcounting dances), but collectively, there are just as many who don't. (At one of my favorite clubs, lapdances are $25 a song and I will get two of them, pay $60, and then they ask if I want change, which seems to be the morally proper thing to do.) Drug use isn't necessarily immoral in individual context, but can be in the group context. One of my favorites has told me she has done various illegal drugs, which I find amazing that she would tell me this. Now in the individual context, it doesn't really affect anything. It doesn't affect me personally if someone does cocaine in their off hours. But in a group context, like a job, for instance, you don't want people who are going to be high on cocaine, because there is work to be done, and people who are high on cocaine tend to not do anything. You can expand that logic to society in general. You get the local preacher to talk about the local stripper, and they don't talk about individual strippers, they talk about them collectively, and how they all do this and all do that, and its an abomination against the Lord, but they don't really know any of them on an individual basis. It's not like they all give out handjobs or whatever your favorite sex act is.

In short, strippers are no more or less immoral than anyone else.

Zorro's question isn't really that complicated. Morality is the wrong context.

Buyer beware.

This age old principle is the proper context and should guide every consumer purchase. It means due your research before you put your trust in a product or a person. In this hobby, the research is different, but the due dilligence is the same as for anything else. You have to determine what someone is selling you before you understand their pitch. They all start out selling the fantasy, which isn't real. So it's wrong to confuse that conundrum (purchasing something that isn't real) with morality. It takes time and research to understand that what they say is required to get ahead--because that's what the typical customer wants to hear. When does it become real? Does it ever? That varies by each personal encounter. So don't put it in a moral context. If you are, so shouldn't even be here.

ozy: "So basing presumed morals from that we'd have to say strippers, as a class, are MORE moral than average!"

Lots of problems with your logic here. First of all you say "most" states, but don't document the actual numbers. Second of all, you don't weight it by population. Third, for some reason, you are only interested in felonies. (The pending felony thing doesn't seem legal. What about the presumption of innocence? I'm sure that one would get quashed if anyone bothered to fight it.) Most importantly, and related to the previous point, you don't consider the vast majority of immoral behavior which doesn't rise to the level of felony. So if there 0% felons amongst this subset of strippers, 0.1% amongst the general population, but 98% of strippers are immoral in important, but non-felon, ways but only 80% of the rest of population is you conclude the strippers are more moral overall (sample numbers to prove the point). Overall, your logic and evidence here is appalling!


ozy: "A smart stripper (and most are) can make $100-150k easily, and when said stripper is some 19 year old girl, the 40 year old guy who's tipping her off his $60k salary can always try to place himself in a superior position by assuming she's some morally bankrupt slut... "

Back in the boom days when guys were spending money from their subprime credit or from the dot com bubble, maybe. Nowadays it would be rare for a stripper to make even half that. Many around here have trouble making half that, and our economy is relatively strong. And saying most strippers are "smart" is just insane? They used to be able to make lots of money? So what. Can they in this failing economy? Also money making ability is not a sign of intelligence. Just a greater propensity to do sleazy things, and take risks. Some very dumb drug dealers make lots just because they are willing to take risks.

As for $70k PhD? How many strippers in the given the same opportunity do you think would have passed it? Again you logic is seriously busted here.

Please, ozy, try to work out your logic a little better before you post. You aren't quite as bad as MisterGay (yet) but you are getting there.

SuperDude: Completely missing the point. By your logic if 5% of waitresses will try and rip off customers and for smaller amounts when they have the chance but 95% of strippers will, you would conclude neither group is "pure" so hence equally moral?

Man, with all the flawed reasoning about morals we see in this thread, a consequence of the ever popular doctrine of relativism no doubt, is it any wonder the country went down the drain so hard in the credit collapse (in large part demonstrative of the moral collapse of society)?

MG: "Booby-boy has already admitted..."

Perfect example of MisterGay's lies. Attributing something BookGuy said in a thread to me.

BobbyI: "Also money making ability is not a sign of intelligence."

Should say "not necessarily".

Well let's make a distinction between "morals" and "limitations".

"Won't drink piss" has nothing to do with morals - it's about limitations and boundaries.

I mean, someone could be thoroughly wicked and evil and still have no desire to be pissed upon... that's depravity, not malevolence!

O.

I think it has to do with them having weak super-egos. The same weak super-egos that lowers the barrier of sex (or near sex) for money (which is stigmatized by society, but not immoral IMO), is also responsible for lowering the barrier to stigmatized and immoral acts. Before anyone points it, yes I think the same is true of customers, although, because they are mostly male it's not exactly the same (i.e. customers not as stigmatized as dancers).

As for the religion, very few bring up the subject of Christianity, although some will admit to being Christians. (Even some who do extras.)

Overall strippers are more inclined to wacky mystical beliefs (and to all the atheists reading this, yes I read Christianity counts as a wacky mystical belief, but strippers don't find it appealing for some reason. Probably just b/c they are such rebels and non conformists. LOL!).

So called "paganism" and wiccanism are popular. It's really whack!

Is a stripper immoral because she is a stripper. Is a LD immoral. It is a consensual act, paid for. No. If she pickpockets a customer or cheats on dances, etc., she is immoral. Some strippers are immoral for stealing money from customers pockets and other things discussed here.

"Attributing something BookGuy said in a thread to me."

Really now?? It's funny how you didn't deny this charge when it was levied before here:
http://www.tuscl.com/discussion/64637

and here:
http://www.tuscl.com/discussion/64822

And why would that be?? Because the charge is TRUE, that's why:
http://www.tuscl.com/discussion/63129

"When I am feeling 'down' I will spend less, b/c, at those times, I find paying for sex actually makes me feel worse not better. (I think this is the opposite of most people and the normal way certainly used to be my MO.)"

"In any case, I always feel a huge disconnect between myself and nearly all the girls."

"Again, it's only when I'm feeling especially glum that it makes me feel worse."

"I guess one is not always able to guess ones true mood before hand, so accidents (and wasted money) happen."

So, let's review...Dougster/Bobby-boy (who are the SAME person based on the things that they [he] constantly speak of and the distinct way that they [he] chooses to "express" themselves [himself]) has demonstrated again & again how he looks down his own nose at the very same sex workers that provide him with an outlet when he's feeling "down" or "blue" or "glum"...the poor lil troll... He also routinely looks down his nose at others that use the very same sex workers for other (more sane) reasons. This particular troll's powers at projection are, in a word, *amazing*...I'll say again that someone should do a clinical trial just on *him* alone! They'd probably win a Nobel Prize!!

Oh, and how's that self-imposed celibacy due to past risky behavior with sex workers going there troll?? What a joke...

Ozy...why are trying to engage in a "rational" discussion with a troll that has absolutely ZERO credibility on this issue of "morality"?? You're only about one or two posts away from being called some schoolyard taunt by him and becoming his new obession, which is fine by me...but it's really not necessary. Don't feed the troll people...let him starve and he will go away...it's simple & easy!

MisterGay: Thank you for proving my point.

"When I am feeling 'down' I will spend less"

So contrary to your claim, I see them LESS when I'm not feeling good. If it was to "pick me up" as you claim, I would spend more.

If you examine those threads, you'll notice see that once I noticed the pattern I *only* started spending money on them when I was more up. However if it was for "pick me up" I would not have doen that.

MisterGay not very good at logic, and again helped me out here by pulling out quotes disproving his assertion.

MisterGay: "This particular troll's powers at projection are, in a word, 'amazing'"

MisterGay again projecting his propensity to project onto others!

Oh, almost forgot (it almost goes without saying now)...

MISTEGAY loses again!

SD: "Is a stripper immoral because she is a stripper. Is a LD immoral. It is a consensual act, paid for. No. If she pickpockets a customer or cheats on dances, etc., she is immoral. Some strippers are immoral for stealing money from customers pockets and other things discussed here"

Agree 100% with this.

All is can say is redundant...

Are customers immoral? I don't lie, steal or cheat. Does that make me any better? Yes but only with those dancers that do.

"However if it was for 'pick me up' I would not have doen that."

Thanx for being the lying, lil troll that you always have been Bobby-boy/Dougster...LOL!! Too funny...

Looks like you're the one who lied, once again, MisterGay! (Nice projection there, buddy!) If you want to know my real motivations for the time I spent in the stripper underworld, see DickJohnson's "changed you" thread.

MisterGay: A bit of elementary logic and your own idiocy in digging up those quotes that contradicted your own position destroyed you. Once again.

It's really too easy with you, and, as always, we are forced to say... MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!

MisterGay, I'll give you some more rope to hang yourself with. Explain how the following claims of yours are NOT contradictory:

a) You claim: I never go to strip clubs.
b) You claim: I use strippers in an attempt to cure me when I'm feeling glum.

Really MisterGay. We've seen time and time again that you can't even make it more than a post or two on this board without hopelessly tangling yourself in contradictions.

You want to be a big fearsome troll, but honestly, I've watched trolls on the internet for close to a couple of decades now. You are one of the weakest.

With most trolls I would say if that is your perverse ambition at least try and do it well. Take some courses in logic and stats 101, so you can hold your own for at least a post or two in open battle. MisterGay, I wish I could tell you that with a clear conscience. But your logic is so weak, it completely undermines every aspect of your attempts at intelligence, and knowledge.

School would just be a waste of money for you. You are too dumb to learn at all. You need a new hobby/ambition... Sorry to say, but it's true...

MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!
MISTERGAY WILL ALWAYS BE A LOSER IN THE FLAME WARS HERE AND IN THE GAME OF LIFE!

Strippers are immoral. So are the customers. The management is by far the most immoral though.

I like immoral people. They seem so much more honest and decent. It's the MORAL ones that really get on my nerves ...

Read the following and tell me Bobbyl is not a fucking psychopath:

"MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!
MISTERGAY WILL ALWAYS BE A LOSER IN THE FLAME WARS HERE AND IN THE GAME OF LIFE!"

Back to the ignore list you go fuckwad troll.

Read ANYTHING that parody wrote and tell me he is not a fucking FAGGOT.

"A bit of elementary logic and your own idiocy in digging up those quotes that contradicted your own position destroyed you."

Keeping spinning there troll...LOL...you wouldn't be spending ANY money on strippers if it didn't help you out when you were feeling "blue"...awwww....LOL!!

"You claim: I never go to strip clubs."

When did I say that?? I'm pretty sure that was your old buddy njscfan...who *was* kind of a wimp for giving up so easy IMO. I still don't believe any of those "reviews" that you posted under your Bobby-boy/Dougster TUSCL IDs troll...but whatever...

"I've watched trolls on the internet for close to a couple of decades now."

Let me correct that for you...you've BEEN a troll on the Internet for quite some time now! LOL!!

"Read ANYTHING that parody wrote and tell me he is not a fucking FAGGOT."

...and let the simple-minded, schoolyard troll rants continue...ugh...you really have NOTHING to bring to the table there troll...no more feedings for you here...bye-bye now troll...

MisterGay makes it too easy for me. Ok, nevertheless...

MisterGay: "you wouldn't be spending ANY money on strippers if it didn't help you out when you were feeling 'blue'...awwww....LOL!!"

Let's see MisterGay spends money on strippers, but he thinks guys can only do that when they need help when they are feeling blue, therefore, MisterGay spends money on strippers when he needs help when he is feeling 'blue'... awww.... LOL!

(Helpful hint: MisterGay logic is not your strong suit. You will lose every time you try and fight on that ground. Stay nebulous. It's your best home, although eventually we'll call you down on that.)

MisterGay: "'You claim: I never go to strip clubs.'

When did I say that??"

Your very first post in this thread MisterGay:

MisterGay: "You're talking with an admitted troll zorro...he's doesn't go to strip clubs..."

Well, well, what do you know. Guess what? Oh, boy. This is a shocker. Never would have seen this one coming. What could it be. Yes, I hate to say it. But it's true. Somethings never change...

MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!

"he thinks guys can only do that when they need help when they are feeling blue"

I never said that. You should really go into the projectionist trade troll...too funny...

MisterGay: "I never said that. "

MisterGay lies again. Here is a direct quote:

MisterGay: "you wouldn't be spending ANY money on strippers if it didn't help you out when you were feeling 'blue'"

Your statement doesn't allow for any other possibilites for a guy spending money on strippers other than helping them out with the "blues". I suppose that's the reason you do it. Hence, you project your motivations onto everyone else. I, OTOH, think that many reasons are possible.

MisterGay: "You should really go into the projectionist trade troll..."

MisterGay projecting his own propensity (and career ambitions) onto others!

MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!

Hey, MisterGay! How about that contradiction of yours I pointed out? Do you still want to stick by the story that I never go to strip clubs? Are you going to back down from that lie or just get yourself more tangled in it like you usually do? MisterGay you are even a good troll. You just grab whatever is in front of you, if means you get the chance to disagree with me. Even if it contradicts everything else you say, you will still lie, because you are that short sighted. We will notice the contradictions MisterGay and point them out. And then be forced to say....

MISTERGAY LOSES AGAIN!

"Your statement doesn't allow for any other possibilites for a guy spending money on strippers"

Of course it does troll...learn to read & comprehend the following:
"He also routinely looks down his nose at others that use the very same sex workers for other (more sane) reasons."

"Do you still want to stick by the story that I never go to strip clubs?"

LOL...I, along with *many* others here, don't believe ANY of the "reviews" that you've tried to post here Bobby-boy/Dougster, period.

Blah, blah, blah, blah...same ole taunts, falsehoods, and backpeddling from our resident troll...<yawn>...nitey nite troll...

So now MisterGay is back to saying that I don't go to strip clubs?
But then (in the same post!) he says that I do, but for "non-sane" reasons (b/c I enjoyed fucking hot chicks is "insane". I wonder what his "sane" reasons, by contrast are?)

So MisterGay. Which is it? Do you believe that I go to strip clubs or not? You can't answer that one can you? If you say I do go, then it was a lie when you said I didn't. If you say I don't go, then it was a lie when you said I do it but for the wrong reasons. Either way, MisterGay is a liar, and, you guessed it. MisterGay loses again!

"You can't answer that one can you?"

I already did troll...learn to read...