You have asked a perfectly legitimate question. Notice that none of the answers you received were particularly informative. Indeed, some of them were somewhat flip. There's a reason for that.
A VIP room can be expensive. In my area, it can run $200 for 30 minutes, the cost of an overnight stay in a pretty nice hotel. Yet, you frequently have no idea going in what you'll get. I think there are very few commercial transactions like that. When you pay $10 for a movie, you might not know if it will be a good movie, but you know for sure it will be a movie. The VIP room can be so unpredictable that it becomes a vehicle for ripping people off.
At one end, next to nothing happens in the VIP. By "nothing," I mean no sex, and no activity that you could not get by just sitting at the bar. You and the girl sit there and chat, with your arms around each other. You remain fully clothed, and she keeps her bikini on. You don't even kiss or feel her up. That's how ridiculous it can be sometimes.
At the other extreme, the 30 minute VIP session can be a quick and dirty episode of steamy sex -- kissing, groping, handjob, blowjob, pussylicking, fucking -- as some of the strippers like to put it, "everything" (my favorite word to hear in the VIP).
Obviously, the rip off strip clubs benefit from the secrecy. It allows them to dupe guys into paying $200 for nothing. And keeping alive the idea that the VIP is like some unpredictable lottery -- you never know when you might get sex -- keeps the poor guys spending their hard earned cash for shit. And yet that's a fraud. True, your mileage may vary, but the fact remains that there are some clubs where sex is allowed, and some where it is absolutely prohibited. As customers, we have a right to know which is which.
That's where review sites like tuscl should come in, in my opinion. We should use the reviews (and to a lesser extent, the boards) to separate the sheep from the goats. An intelligent user of the site should be able to tell where it is likely he can get sex, and where it is almost impossible.
[N.B. Yes, I know, I know, some of you have no interest in ever having sex with strippers ever. You just want the strippers to writhe naked all over your body, or you just want to have a nice intelligent chat with them while their tits are hanging out -- but you never ever want to have them jump your wanker. I don't understand it, but I don't criticize it -- if that's your bag, fine with me. But there are some of us who very much enjoy having sex with girls of all varieties, including strippers.]
Unfortunately, most of the reviews on this site are not very informative. They often say nothing about the VIP, and are very vague about the level of service (e.g., "dancer X gave a great lapdance, really high mileage" is meaningless -- for some guys "high mileage" means a handjob, for some it means full service).
The reason most often given for the vagueness of the reviews is the concern that LE will read the reviews and raid the club. I personally think this concern is overblown. I would not mention a dancer by name in a review (for concernns about LE and other concerns as well). But I do not think clubs usually get raided because of reviews on websites. There are lots of websites that post reviews about strip clubs, amps and escorts, and they are usually very explicit, yet they continue to operate. The amps in my area that provide FS have very explicit reviews on several sites, yet they are undisturbed by the cops. Likewise, I have posted some explicit reviews about clubs in my area where sex is available, and they continue to provide the same services uninterrupted.
The reasons for the vague reviews, in my opinion, relate to the fact that a lot of tusclers like the "mystery." It makes them feel special and important to pretend they have some "inside" information about a particular club. Some of the old (I don't mean old in age, I mean old in terms of longevity on the board) tusclers even express the view that you need to pay your dues and prove yourself before they will share their special insiders knowledge about a particular club -- even if it's bullshit.
And usually it is bullshit. The reality is that a lot of the clubs are just handjob factories, or worse, places where the girls are getting the guys to cum by rubbing their dicks through their pants. And for a lot of the guys on this site -- including some of the guys who are supposedly old hands -- that is all they are getting. There are relatively few people who will speak clearly and explicitly about the level of service they get at a club -- but you are guaranteed to get a ton of responses if you post a thread about ejaculating semen in your underwear.
[N.B. It makes me wonder how common premature ejaculation is among tusclers. According to the net, about one-third of men have problems with premature ejaculation, and that can sometimes mean cumming within 2 or 3 minutes -- just about the amount of time for a 1 song lapdance, ironically. I guess if you are going to cum almost as soon as you enter a woman's pussy, maybe spending the money on FS is not a good idea after all.]
In sum, there are places where full service sex is available in the VIP. If we were all clear about this in our reviews (or at least made a point of calling out the places where the VIPs are a rip off), we would eventually force the clubs to provide higher quality service in the clubs, and sex in the VIPs would become more common and easy to obtain.
singleinaz, you have posted no reviews and as your first entry into this community you ask a question that has no generic answer. What happens varies from club to club, city to city, state to state and country to country. I suggest you go to a club, post a review and become a member. If you do that then you can read reviews of clubs in your area and get a better feel of which clubs offer what you are looking for, if any.
The dues are cheap since you want to go to club anyway. A good review will get you a months membership and fewer "flip" answers.
You know, I find that response question begging. Yes, he should post reviews, but why should he take a hit for the team, if someone knows a good club in his area. He can get a membership anyway by paying, you know, so he does not need to post a review in order to read the reviews. If someone knows something useful, why not just tell him? Even telling him to forget it, that he'll never get anything, is useful information.
From his name I assume he lives in Arizona, where there are only 55 clubs. Is it really the case that no one can point him to a club in Arizona and say, "read the reviews for club X"? I've never clubbed in Arizona, but a quick glance of the reviews shows that they are largely uninformative. Either that, or the clubs are offering zero mileage. As a typical example, I looked at a relatively high rated club in Phoenix with some 48 reviews, and with a VIP room. Here's a typical review:
"I have gotten many lap dances here and very few were disappointing. Some girls of course are much more high mileage than others but most of the dancers realize that for repeat business there has to be some grindage. If you find the right dancer you will get lots of grindage and leave a happy customer."
If I am reading this correctly, it means the reviewer got pretty much nothing. If that's really all one can find in Arizona, why not tell this guy that that's the deal? If there's a place where you can get sex, why not tell him that? If you don't want to identify the club, just say "read my review from such and such date." Why the big secret? The whole point of this site is to share information with each other, not to tell each other "go fish."
Yes, he can pay $9.99 a month and join or he can go to a club, file a review and be a member for a month for free. I would go for the free option and then decide my next step. Signing up for monthly charges to a cc is something I normally avoid if I can.
You cannot take a hit for the team unless you join the team, IMHO.
There is no sex in the champagne room at the Columbia SC Platinum Plus. I have been in there once as an invited guest of a customer that was in there with my ATFs best friend. All we did was sip a glass of champagne. In my reviews, I have always stressed that the champagne room is a waste of time and money. In 7 years I have only had 3 dancers ever try to con me into going there.
My favorite club is known as a high mileage club. Thus its presence on the TUSCL top 40. I get a lot of email/PMs from guys that know that I know the club well. What do they want? Names! Some of these guys just registered and have done no reviews. Who are they? I don't know them and will never give them more than guidelines. I have a dozen or so buddies that I have personally met and trust. I share everything with them. But you have to understand that I also have built up trust with a dozen or so dancers and want to keep that trust.
I could tell you that Kelly does a great BBBJ for $40. You go there, find her and don't get shit. So whats the point of sharing too much personal information? Learn to read between the lines.
you gotta try the merchandise and find a VIP girl that wants to give it to you. she will be more likley if -
a. she likes you (persoanl hygiene, chemistry, etc.) and
b. she thinks you have money to come back for more
This depends on the club, the shift, the dancer and who is watching. I have received everything from an hour or two of great conversation with a hot naked lady to full service including BBBJ and DATY with another...and everything in between.
I dunno that we can just review a bunch of strip clubs and then magically "sex in the VIPs would become more common and easy to obtain." There are some places in the USA apparently where sex in a strip club is either very, very rare or non-existant (for whatever reason). This sucks for sure, but I doubt that there is much that we can do about this on our own.
Hey CarolinaWanderer, the guy in question has posted 2 reviews now...can he join you secret club now? LOL...
The "read between the lines" crowd on here is all about being selfish IMO.
singleinaz, you appear to be in or near AZ...sorry dude, never been there...so I can't tell you what goes on in the VIPs out there. Maybe someone else could help you out if you posted areas that you were interested in hearing about. Good luck...
In the U.S. are most VIP rooms where it is just you and the girl? I ask this because I saw some photo's on the Las Vegas OG website that showed a photo of a VIP room but it is clearly a room where a lot of girls entertain. Would girls be providing arios levels of extras in rooms such as these?
Some guys get a boner just sitting by the stage watching the girls dance. It might be embarrassing for the customer if the dancer noticed such sporting of the wood out there at the poorly lit stage area.
Therefore, some clubs have secluded areas where the light level is often higher than the stage, so you can go with the dancer and sport as much wood as you want and if the dancer notices, then it's okay.
The are lots of other things that can happen in the VIP, but that might take years and thousands of dollars to discover.
limey: I don't care if you are talking $600 US or Euros but I do not want to buy it. Just rent it. How private? So private that it would not have happened without it. Quicky? That depends on your definition. There has always been plenty of foreplay Even OTC. Any body that tells you that it took longer than 5 minutes to cum with a hot chick is full of shit.
Londonguy, it varies from club to club. Some clubs have one or more VIP rooms that you may be sharing with other couples. Some clubs have small private rooms where it's just the two of you. Some clubs have both. Some clubs have neither. And in some clubs the rooms are monitored frequently by a bouncer, waitress, or a TV camera, while in others they aren't. And regardless of the layout, in every club some girls will do more than others will. Virtually every club has some girls who sell sexual services, either inside the club or elsewhere, and others who don't.
Thanks FONDL, that was what I was sort of expecting someone to say. I really don't mind who watches me engaging in sexual services with a stripper, though bouncers I am not so keen on. Bt I understand why that might be. A question leading on from this is does anyone know the VIP room options in all the leading Vegas SC's?
What is a VIP room? There any many different interpretations on here. In Atlanta there only two kinds of dances. Table or VIP. The table dances suck and the VIP rooms are very expensive and you never know what you are going to get.
At my favorite club there are 3 choices. Table dances, semi private couch room dances and very private champagne room dances. The table dances are very high contact but done out in the open. Very few customers go this route. The couch room is the most popular. Very high contact and depending on the dancer and amount of privacy the best value. The champagne room is what I would call a VIP room. Or rip off room. $250/hr to the house and the dancers that want to take you back there are not cheap. Wanting $300 or more and you never know what that will buy you. In most cases nothing more that you could have got in the couch room. There are 6 cubicles in there and a champagne room hostess. A hot red head in this case. But she and the waitresses and bouncers all have their hands out. It does not get much use. Talking to one of my favorites a short time ago, She told me that she had only done 3 VIP trips in the last year. No money in it. Personally I have gotten BBBJ's and FS in the couch room for less than $100. I think that the club made a big mistake in remodeling the club to add the champagne room. Now if they were to change their policy and only charge $30 for 1/2 hour the rooms would always be filled. I guess that is why I am not an owner/manager of a strip club. I don't understand economics.
Shadowcat, you make a good point. I suppose it depends on what guarantees, if any, the dancer can make. If it's totally private and you get FS for an hour then $600, in my opinion, would be worth considering if the dancer was really hot. $600 is a price I have paid for high calibre escorts so it's much the same thing for me. $100 is a good deal but was it a 'quicky' and how private were you?
I missed the part many are responding to where the original poster pleaded to know at what club he could fuck strippers in a VIP room. The one thing he can be sure does happen in there is customers paying a lot more money than in the main room, money that often goes to the club, not the girl. Usually, the dances they get aren't any better. Personally, I have no use for the VIP except when I'm in a club where it's the only place you can get a good lapdance.
shadow seems to say every guy cums with a "hot chick" in less than 5 minutes and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
Unlike shadowcat (who bases his claim presumably on his personal experience only, since we can guess he is not observing other mens' orgasms), there are actually people who have studied this. For guys with premature ejaculation (which is not precisely defined), they are cumming on average in less than 2 minutes (!). For guys who do not have PE, they are coming on average in about 7 to 8 minutes -- but that's an average, and the study found plenty of guys not cumming for 10 minutes or more. And that's IELT for you scientists out there -- intravaginal ejaculation latency time, that is, from the time your dick is in the girl's pussy until the time you cum (no I am not making this up).
Unfortunately the study did not break out the data for guys having sex with "hot chicks" so I am sure that's the linchpin to shadowcat's "analysis".
While shadowcat exaggerates a little, premature ejaculation is a huge problem. It's not well defined, but its probably the biggest form of sexual dysfunction for men under 40, affecting maybe a third of the population. (That doesn't mean men over 40 don't have PE. It's just that they often have other, bigger problems, like not being able to get a hardon in the first place.)
When you combine PE with the fact that a lot of guys won't lick pussy or don't know how, then it is not really surprising that the most common sexual problem among women is a lack of interest in sex (one-third), followed by difficulty achieving orgasm (one-quarter) and finding that sex is not pleasurable (about a fifth). The same survey found that over a third of the women only think about sex a couple of times a month. Who can blame them if it's that bad?
Any guy cumming really fast owes it to himself and his partner to seek treatment and not just accept it as par for the course. Don't just bust your nut.
Also keep in mind that women love to and will gossip about how good (or bad) you are in bed. Word will get around to all her friends in no time. Either to your benefit or detrement.
I agree that it's a good idea if you have partner to up your skillz. However, if it's only strippers you are paying it really doesn't matter and you should not care.
"if it's only strippers you are paying it really doesn't matter and you should not care."
If you want FREE, then yes it does matter. Good tongue at Angels will get you more hot stripper than you can handle. :)
Also this things about no one taking longer than 5 minutes to cum with a hot chick is complete bullshit. I usually take too long (90 minutes seems to be my sweet spot, but I don't give a fuck if it's with a stripper, I'm friggin' paying her!) I have talked to strippers about IELT:
Strippers say guys are all over the place on IELT. Some too fast, some too long, some can't get it up at all, some will just fuck them and fuck them but can't cum. What is truly best is to cum when it's appropriate. Alot of this has to do with headspace and practice.
Most strippers I've talked to are more grossed out at the idea of customers DATY'ing them then fucking them (and of course fucking is only slightly more gross to them then giving BJs). Only kissing seems to be grosser to them than receiving oral pleasure. There might be exceptions, but I bet most customers who try and please a stripper by DATY'ing her are just grossing her out instead. But jarblake does have a point, women love goes who know how to eat pussy. Heck word is that if you can do that well, your jerk factor can go pretty high, and she'll just put up with it.
I've been offered FREE by super hot dancers---imo, it's not a good deal. But, I'm speaking based on Gambling dancer's experience (she is 100% up for FREE tongue) as well as 2 others dancers who I haven't seen or spoken with in about year. Employees and non-paying customers have joked that they should be charging the dancers. :)
Let me clarify---I've been offered FREE without going down on dancers---I'm too scared about disease or I would like to see how my skills or lack thereof match up.
As of late, I haven't been going to Angels because my health is getting worse and when I do go out I've been going to RolLexx because the dancers are petite and smoking hot more often than not. I believe, but don't know, that the RolLexx has the same deal. Good tongue brings FREE hot dancers. The key is good. Gambling dancer is talking about getting munched on for a good half an hour and that there is skill involved. I didn't want to eat her out even though I've known her for many years--she is a hooker and that seems like a much higher risk of STDs. :(
Bobby
I think we all want our skills to be high. Hopefully no one here is relying exclusively on strippers for sex (although, who knows, perhaps you're right and some are).
I agree the amount of time guys take can vary considerably, which is why I took exception to shadowcat's belief that it's always 5 minutes or less. But there is a lot of data, unfortunately, that a very large percentage of men cum in a very short period of time (less than 2 minutes), and I have had a number of strippers (and civilians) tell me about guys who cum as soon as they're in the pussy (and sometimes blow their wad even before they get there). This is a source of great amusement among the strippers -- they laugh about how guys will spend $$$ on a VIP room only to blow it in the first 30 seconds, or how guys will cum with their pants still on in the LD room before the first song is even over. Given the number of guys who claim to pop in their pants during a lapdance without ever taking their clothes off (which from threads on this board appears to be quite common), I would say PE is a real problem among strip club patrons.
I don't agree that strippers are necessarily more grossed out by daty versus fucking -- it depends on the stripper. Like civilians some strippers can have hang ups about anything "down there," and some might be concerned about excessive physical contact (assuming a condom is worn during sex, it would theoretically involve less direct physical contact). But I've only had one escort in 25 years of hobbying who has ever turned me down on daty. I've had a lot of instances I can think of where the girl would let me do daty, but would not agree to fuck and/or would not agree to a bbbj. In terms of difficulty in getting the stripper/escort to do it, I would rank daty as slightly harder to get than a hj, and slightly easier to get than a bj.
Likewise, I don't agree that they (the strippers and escorts) don't care at all what the daty is like (or the performance generally). It's not why they're in business, but all other things equal they'd rather have a more pleasant experience when they do their jobs. My current regular companion actually agreed to do OTC with me the first time (after saying she'd never do it) after a long session of daty ITC. We start every OTC session with foreplay and then a good 15-20 minutes of daty, which she requests every time. I'm seeing her this afternoon and I'm sure it won't be any different. She clearly likes having her pussy licked. Most women do.
It seems like the strippers that I know, and perhaps I know the wrong strippers, generally don't care about dick at all. The reason I hear again and again is that either the man is too quick or it just doesn't hit the right spot. Tongue does seem to be in demand IF and it is a big IF the man takes the time and knows what he is doing.
According to Gambling dancer the woman should totally lose control. :) That is saying a lot coming from her because usually she is just doing a very fine job. She, imo, is very high skill---that performance is, unless she is getting tongue, a performance. That doesn't mean, btw, that she can't enjoy giving a performance---if the customer gets hot enough for long enough her feelings will kick-in---still it isn't sexual excitement. More like a warm glow from doing a good job.
njscfan, agree totally. Haven't met a girl yet, whether in the sex industry or not, who doesn't appreciate DATY. A lot of girls tell me that guys just don't stay down there long enough, in general terms it takes girls longer to reach climax from clitoral stimulation. As for lasting under or over five minutes, can only speak for myself but 5+ minutes is easily achievable most of the time - it's a question of pace and control.
For some reason, I only feel like DATY'ing the prettiest of pussies. So I very rarely even try. Then I usually take way too long to cum. Well at least I'm having fun and making them earn their money, right?
I think I've been lucky or have a knack for spotting the freakiest strippers. Once we get to BJ then everything is typically a given. (I think the key here is see if they will DFK in the club. As I say I think strippers hold that back as the ultimate extra and if they will give that up, then cumming on their face or fucking them in the ass is pretty much given. Also you need to have your radar up for any squeamishness or controlling behavior before and not to try to rationalize it away. I just dismiss those types early now, but in my younger days that was a good indication of mediocre service to come.)
P.S. I've never tried escorts myself, but am thinking of getting a whirl. How would you rate the typcial escorts skills versus the typical strippers. I am guessing escrots are also going to be very good because of all the practice they get, and incentive to be good to earn more money.
Ok, you guys have clearly had different experiences than me. Girls always told me that they were grossed out by customers who tried to DATY, or, even worse! kiss them (although they would, of course, fake pleasure). I'm gonna go back and ask again.
As far as DATY, doing it OTC is preferred by most if the customer has skill-----but, then a certain trust has to have been established (by reference perhaps); easy or difficult depending on the dancer. Supposedly, if you're good and visit often word spreads FAST. :)
A friend of mine who is extremely unattractive, old and fat, gets a huge thumbs UP by many regular middle age women (ugly to average women, btw). Talking to these different women, he is just the world's greatest stud. He gets the thumbs DOWN outside the bedroom. I've heard him described as a machine, as non-stop, all man, didn't know what an orgasm was until I met him, a porn star, etc. etc. etc. These women really seemed to be missing a lot in the bedroom until Mr. He-Man Stud came to the rescue. He doesn't eat pussy at all, btw.
I talked to him about his success and he is like that is NO big deal, you just keep pounding away until they come. Apparently, he lasts for a lot longer than 5 minutes, but the quality is so poor (ugly to average) I'm amazed he can get it up at all let alone come. Also, he isn't that interested in sex (for a man)--the women go to him.
Bringing the thread almost back on track, I have a question. Is there any connection in the availability/possibilty of extras and the type of club or is it just down to a combination of luck, charm and money? I mean is it just as likely at anything between the bottom end and top end of the market in any given city?
londonguy (do you really live in london by the way?): There are some clubs where sex is available, and some where it is not available. It is not necessarily about the "type" of club, although perhaps some close study could reveal that a certain "type" of club is more likely to be sex friendly. But there are some clubs (top or low end) where sex is absolutely prohibited, the club really polices it, and if a girl gets caught she gets fired. In those clubs, no matter how charming, lucky or rich you will not get sex. I suspect (but don't know) that girls who do not want to be pressured to sell sex gravitate to those clubs. On the other hand, there are clubs where management openly tolerates sex and looks the other way -- the girls have expressly told me in such establishments that management is cool with it. Obviously, a girl willing to sell sex will work at such a place. The trick is finding that kind of club. That's where I would like my fellow club sex hounds to be more explicit and honest in their reviews, so we can all more easily find what we are seeking.
Bobby: I am sure this will only further lower me in the estimation of certain tusclers, but I think I have a fair amount of experience with escorts, having used them for a quarter century, from everything ranging from streetwalkers to the "high class" girls who work out of 5 star hotels. So, here is one john's assessment of the pros and cons of escorts versus strippers.
Escorts have three major benefits in my view, if you are willing to spend the money:
Economics: All in all, dollar for dollar, you get more bang for your buck with an escort, at least as compared to an initial deal with an escort vs. stripper. [The stripper price can go down over time as you get to know her and become a repeat customer. The escort price, in my experience, rarely goes down, although she might shield a regular from price increases.] In the NYC metro area, you can get a very fine escort for $300 per hour. Agency girls are more clock watchers, but a lot of independents will stretch that hour into two hours. It is now standard industry practice that you get to cum twice during the session. You rarely have to pay for the hotel room. And you do not have to pay a penny for any of the preliminaries. The price is all inclusive, and most (good) escorts really do not expect anything beyond their standard price for full service. With a stripper, in addition to paying for the sex, you have to pay for the hotel room, and of course you have to lay out cash to get access to her in the first place -- money to get into the club; money for drinks; money for dances and tips; all just to get to the pussy. Certainly if we are comparing ITC sex with a stripper and sex with an escort, the latter is a much better deal.
Consumerism: Escorts are on the whole more consumer friendly. Once upon a time, when you got a hooker (whether it was off the streets or via the yellow pages) you were taking a lot of chances, big and small. Would she be a cop? What would she really look like? What would she really do? What would the service be like? All that has changed. Hobbying has become a very consumer friendly activity, especially because of review sites like TER. Now, you can not only know what the girl looks like, and what she costs (and know in advance that she's not a cop). You can also know down to the most precise detail what will happen during the session. Will she let you fuck her in the ass? The reviews will tell you. Can you cum on her face? The reviews will tell you. Does she exhibit a bubbly and friendly persona during the session? The reviews will tell you. (A caveat: You have to be a smart consumer and use the reviews carefully, just like with consumer reports.) With a stripper, you know what she looks like, and you know what she acts like at the moment she is talking to you. Everything else is guesswork.
Skills: Like you said, escorts are fucking for a business, strippers are fucking for money on the side. So good escorts are really, really good. I'm lucky, because I live near NYC where there are some of the best escorts in the country. Some of these girls really do their homework and pull out all the stops during a session -- absolutely the dirtiest over the top shit you can imagine. I've known only two civilians who will do some of the stuff the best escorts will do (luckily I'm married to one of the them).
So why fuck strippers when escorts are just a mouseclick away?
For me, there are three reasons, a little more elusive than the concrete facts I just recited, but real nonetheless:
Convenience: Again, I am comparing strippers to the higher quality escorts. Well, the higher quality escorts are in demand. Many of them travel. Getting an appointment is not easy. First, you have to get past their screening process, which means giving up your real name, phone number, and some way to verify you are who you say you are. They do this for safety, and frankly, if an escort does NOT ask for that information, you should be worried. Second, they will NOT see just anyone. A lot of them want references (I'm not kidding). And if they don't like you for any reason, forget it. Third, even after you become one of their customers, they are in high demand, and getting on their calendar is not easy. I typically find in the NYC are that to get on the calendar of one of my favorites can involve waiting several days or even a few weeks. They are popular girls. With a stripper, all I need to know is the right club. I can drop in on my way home from work, get laid, and continue on my way, with my wife none the wiser (oh honey, I had a meeting and stayed a little late, that's all).
The Hunt: And that's the next thing I like about fucking strippers. While I never want to be accused of sounding like David9999, I do think guys like to hunt down girls. I know I do. There is something immensely pleasurable about walking into a club, and knowing that I will find there some girl I will have sex with, even though I have never laid eyes on her before in my life. I love escorts, but with them it's an awful like ordering something on the internet. Do they want to sell you sex? Of course they do shithead, that's their job! Landing an escort is about as exciting as taking your car in to get fixed.
That pesky old Marxist problem: And that's the final thing I like about strippers over escorts. Again, I'm resolutely comparing apples to apples, i.e., high quality escorts to high quality strippers. Even the very, very best escorts I ever had, no matter how smooth or charming or careful they were, I always was acutely aware that I was just engaged in an exchange of $$$ for labor. Even when they have gone hours over our allotted time, even when we've gone out to dinner, even when we've talked about family and friends and "the biz," they were always on the clock, because in the back of my mind I always knew they had scheduled another appointment set for later in the day. Cynical bastard that I am, it just takes some of the fun out of it.
I am the biggest proponent of recognizing that strippers are likewise engaged in commerce. But their business is more complicated, and when they sell sex, it is a trickier deal. There are jobs and then there are jobs. I may well stop my job the minute I stop getting paid (per Mr. Marx), but I may also find that my vocation is my avocation (per Robert Frost). My regular stripper has not made a business out of being an escort -- I'm her only regular customer, and she does nothing to run it like a business. She does it because she can earn a buck (well, more than a buck) but also because she gets something else out of it -- something hard to define, but something evident when we are collapsed in a sweaty heap, the sheets soaked, breathing heavy saying together, "shit, shit that was good." As much as it pains me to admit it, there is something more satisfying about an afternoon with my stripper than the best session I've had with the highest priced NYC escort I've known.
Or maybe its just because she's 20 and hot as nails. lol
njscfan, not in London itself, but not too far away. If I put ****guy it wouldn't have been obvious I am a limey. Your thoughts are spot on, i've also been 'punting' as we say over in England for about 15 years. Booking escorts in London is far easier, with very rare excpetions you can easily get a top class looking girl from anything between $300 through to $1500 but there is no correlation between price and service quality or type of service. Some girls I have seen for $300 I have fucked their arse, they have swallowed my cum and hey have 'rimmed' me. London is by far the best place in Europe for quality escorts. Sadly the chances of fucking stipper in U.K. is very low. The very tight laws have been broken by some strippers though but over here discretion is everything.
You are spot on when you talk about the thrill of the hunt. Knowing that you walk into a place and get to get extras or even fuck a great looking girl who is their primarily just to strip adds a certain edge. Fucking escorts can give me a huge high but at the end of the day I know I am 'one of many'.
Perhaps when writing reviews the tuscl webmaster can create a fourth criteria, something like 'extras availability' and rate it 1-10?
Strippers are MUCH less expensive than escorts and you don't have to fret about looks.
I can't imagine hiring an escort based just on a photo even if I've been tempted. This disgusting pig at Angels----a super nice pig, btw-----was seeking compensation on craig's list for $200. She is a $20 max. ho. And, the disturbing thing is that although her photo was true and correct, it somehow presented her in the best possible light.
She was trying to "give" herself to me just a few days before I saw her ad on craig's list. When I say "give," it wasn't actually "give" as in FREE. It was like she complaining that there was no money and I say I'm broke so you better check the other customers. She had :( ----thank god she finally caught someone's eye who I believe had a $20 for her proposed services. But, it was difficult to be rid of her. At the end of her shift which was rapidly approaching she wanted to come home with me or we could just stay in the car or I could go to her place and she would do whatever I wanted for *only* $20---I'm sure that was negotiable way DOWN to the cost of driving her home---about 10 miles away. I'm thinking, hell I'd like to give you $5 just to get lost. :( Yes, she was a good nice person, but if you don't like tons of fat that is the bottom line.
The blubber loving club was there----the problem was money was in short supply that particular night. Some other night she might get harpooned endlessly and $20 would eagerly be paid as if it was some type of grand theft.
This whole discussion of how long someone can last strikes me as silly. I suspect we can all last however long we want to, just by focusing our thoughts on something else. But some us may not want to last very long, especially when we're paying by the minute. So once again I'd suspect that different people have diferent objectives. We're not all alike and we don't all enjoy the same things. Why do some here have trouble understanding that concept?
FONDL I LOVE YOUR POST EARLIER TODAY (9:11 AM)
Yes, there are some people in this world that have a little understanding how diverse the world really is. FOR EXAMPLE: The prudes who fervently believe that since they hate porn & commercial sex, it should be banned. Makes no sense. But then we have people post on this site, who should know better, that make it seem like people who don't share their particular views on sexual activities are somehow a bit wierd or inferior. I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THAT. CELEBRATE DIVERSITY ! One view in particular that puzzles me: that the main purpose of walking into a strip club is to get laid. If that is YOUR view for YOURSELF, fine, but why should you denigrate other purposes, such as to admire gorgeous naked babes, or to talk to ditzy 20-somethings?, or to cum in your pants? Maybe I should start another thread, entitled: "What is your reason for walking into a strip club" Nawww, too predictable -- gotta think about that.
This thread is reaching record-breaking length. Are people still reading it? (Besides Arbeeguy and - hopefully - FONDL)
I'm reading it. :)
I don't think how long it takes a person to come is silly in the least. That can make a huge difference in your stripclub expectations and experience. It seems like the customers who feel $20 is a good price for a dance are either very wealthy or come very quick or don't buy dances (go to stripclubs often). Heck, if I came as quick as some customers then I'd think $20 was a definite deal. I need a lot of dances, which is why I place so much value on the $5 clubs. Now, if I was wealthy that is a different story or if I went once every couple months that is a different story.
Arbeeguy
I'm only judgmental of people who are . . . judgmental!
Guys who have posted about having sex ITC or OTC have been repeatedly dogged by other posters (including you and your friend FONDL) who suggest that guys who go looking just for sex have something wrong with them. You've gone so far as to suggest that we shouldn't even talk about sex OTC. When you and other members of the no-sex crowd want to stop attacking those of who have sex, I'll stop pointing out every time how hypocritical and silly it is to say its okay to hang out with naked girls, get them to rub their bodies all over you, and even develop emotionally intimate relationships with them -- but its not ok to sleep with them.
So if the no-sex folks lay off, I'll stop responding in kind. But I won't suffer in silence to the sanctimonious nonsense that people who have sex are intolerant of those who don't, when the exact opposite is the case.
This would mean, by the way, that folks who claim never ever to have had sex ITC or OTC, and who claim never ever to have cheated on their wives, maybe, just maybe, should think twice before joining a thread that is about sex ITC or OTC, since I don't see how they can contribute much speaking from ignorance.
With all candor, I suspect your current irritation is more a product of the comments about premature ejaculation and cumming in your shorts. PE is not a myth, and anyone who says otherwise ought to first familiarize himself with the medical literature. Men seek medical help for PE for the same reason they seek help for ED -- it's a recognized form of sexual dysfunction. And it is very reasonable to suspect that men who pop in their pants probably suffer from PE. The girl I slept with last week told me about a guy who came after two strokes -- two strokes! Sorry but anyone who does that has a medical problem. If you think that it's somehow judgmental or intolerant to point that out, then respectfully, I think you have your head in the sand.
But regardless, trust me, I am perfectly a-okay if you and FONDL never have sex again as long as you live.
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