Turning to the dark side

I try to only engage in OTC activities with dancers who don't show self-destructive tendencies. On the couple of occasions where I turned out to be wrong, I cut them off. I didn't cause their problems, but I don't want to exploit or contribute to them, and I'm sure not going to be able to "save" them.

First things first, what's her name, Doc? This is a whole 'nother level of questioning for you. What girl brought this on? I don't even mean this in a trolling way. Generally curious about whether there's a backstory here.

I would say, Wallanon, that I have several regulars who have ended up in prison, died of drug overdoses or got beaten by abusive boyfriends. You are right, though, this was brought on by a specific stripper named Stevie. She was highly intelligent, having come from a middle class background. She looked like a young Taylor Swift and had dreams of becoming a singer. I was devastated to hear she recently died from a drug overdose. It was just the fact that she had so much going for her and went down the wrong road rather than do what she had the potential to do which upset me.

I keep my strip club totally separate from my "civilian" life. I've worked hard to get where I am, and I do strip clubs, not often, as a treat to myself. To quote Jeff Foxworthy sometimes "I want a beer and see someone naked."

I've seen countless strippers OTC over the years. I've also spent a lot of time over the years with non-strippers who have various mental health and/or substance abuse problems. So much of the time I can avoid the worst of it simply by picking up on it before I agree to OTC with someone.

But when I misjudge and find myself witnessing a serious problem, the answer for me is simple - I don't internalize it. I understand where my priorities lie in life, especially with children who need so much from me. This is just side fun for me, not something that I'm emotionally invested in.

I was completely on my own when I turned 20 and only had a handful of college credits to my name. I spent many years living and working in some shitty places, surrounded by these types of people, including street walkers and drug dealers. Finally I powered my way through college and got out.

So I know the difference between myself and them. Any one of them could choose to find their own path out of the shit, like I did, but they choose not to. So fuck 'em. If a girl is that determined to destroy herself, nothing I can do is going to change anything.

Do I keep a separation between my civvie life and club life?

Yes, militantly.
I don't have room for much drama in my life under the best of circumstances. Now, having recently been laid off and on a full-time job search, freelancing, and dealing with a couple demanding personal projects, I don't even have the time or drama tolerance to date civvies, let alone interact with strippers outside the club.

I've given out my phone number to dancers 3 times, and only once (10 years ago) was it my real number and not a Google Voice burner. Never OTCed.

Like Edward Norton said in Fight Club, if you saw someone from Fight Club on the streets, you wouldn't interact with them because they're a whole different person. Ditto if I saw a dancer at my local Whole Foods. We're completely different people.

I don't interact with girls outside the club. OTC has been offered many times but I've never gone through with it the way it was laid out.

The thing I notice is the way some girls change if they are in the business for an extended length of time. Some gain weight, some become very cynical, and some, like a girl I saw recently, got so thin it was alarming. She'd had nurmerous surgeries and now the tits and ass were still inflated but her face and body were drawn like the sterotypical witch/hag from the old cartoons. It was an alarming sight. Don't know if it was drugs or some other health challenge. She came up and chatted with me and I tried to disguise my reaction. At that moment, reality intruded on the fun/fantasy of this world. It reminds me that everything and everyone has an expiration date.

@Puddy Tat: EXACTLY!!!! "Like Edward Norton said in Fight Club, if you saw someone from Fight Club on the streets, you wouldn't interact with them because they're a whole different person. Ditto if I saw a dancer at my local Whole Foods. We're completely different people.

Sorry to hear you were laid-off. I know what that is like, and it sucks big time, and not in the "good" way.

Its snotty and arrogant to claim to be superior to a dancer, escort, etc. a dancer by default isnt “completely different people” i would also note these dancers can charge $300 an hour, even $500 an hour, and most people cant charge that much not even a high end doctor or lawyer.

Additionally not everyone has the means or capability to get themselves out of a poor life. A lot of these people cant afford school, so that automatically limits their options to athletics or needing to become some sort of famous celebrity, YouTuber, etc, to break the poverty cycle they are in.

I had a real “WTF” moment one time. I met my first ATF at her friend’s apartment (long story why). Turns out this was where a bunch of out of town dancers all met before work. One brought in dinner and they were smoking weed and doing hair and make up getting ready for work. Being with a half dozen young strippers sounds like a dream come true….until one pulls out a gun. She said her ex was after her so “just in case” he shows up.

I couldn’t help but think for a split second “what have I gotten myself into”

Nothing happened that night but one of the dancers died two years ago. Not from an OD, but all the years of opioid use just took a toll. The oxy destroyed her digestive system.

Op means he pretends to be conservative by hiding his habit of paying drug addicted hookers for sex. Thats the typical tuscl mo 😂🤡

Personally i dont care who knows i go to clubs. Its not a big deal

===> "Additionally not everyone has the means or capability to get themselves out of a poor life."

Bullshit. There are countless ways and they don't just involve college. We have such a chronic shortage skilled blue collar workers in this country that countless free and subsidized training programs are available. We don't have enough plumbers, electricians, welders and countless other tradesmen.

You just have to have the will to pursue these things. Remaining poor is just the path of least resistance. We hand out free health insurance and SNAP benefits like candy now, so our poor only have to make enough to keep a roof over their heads to get by. And if you're a single parent have children, you can get help with that too, along with extra food help via WIC.

^ @rickmicrobrain is either a troll or an utter tard.

BTW, $500 for a high end doctor or lawyer--that's cute. Double that and you're at least in the ballpark.

^ @rickmicrobrain is either a troll or an utter tard.
Why can’t he be both

^ @rickmacrodong "...$300 an hour, even $500 an hour, and most people cant charge that much not even a high end doctor or lawyer." Seriously? No offense to PL lawyers & doctors on TUSCL, yes, they can do charge like this. If you can find a lawyer anywhere in the USA for under $125/hr, check that their degree. I've had this argument many a time. And it depends where you live. SanFran and Manhattan rates will be much higher that in the middle of Kansas. My plumber literally charges $150/hr. I just had some work done on my boiler and some other work on 17 year old stuff: $4,000.

@rickmacrodong "Additionally not everyone has the means or capability to get themselves out of a poor life. A lot of these people cant afford school, so that automatically limits their options to athletics or needing to become some sort of famous celebrity, YouTuber, etc, to break the poverty cycle they are in."

Athletics? Seriously? People can pull themselves by the bootstraps if they want, and can find the support. I'm sure a lot of girls strip and manage their income quite well knowing this gig has a time limit to maximize earning.

Soooo, we have YouTube/TikTok "influencers". Like I would even listen to what these mongrels have to say, or suggest I do, just like the cattle on "The View." "A fool and his money are easily parted."

In the series "Landman", Billy Bob Thornton describes the Rough Necks in Midland, TX. Many are not high school grads and are pulling down $180K/yr. Midland is just one place. High school grads, and even dropouts with a GED can enlist in the military to get their life together. It's a choice.

Trade schools cost a hell of a lot less, and offer good pay for those willing to work for it. And, backed-up with a 2-year community college degree is business administration (stuff everyone should know to live even if they don't have a business as high school does a shit job on live prep.)

College has turned into a joke for way too many with uber expensive, worthless degrees that can't be monetized. There are lot of choices for education today that can be monetized compared to 40 years ago. And sure, some kids come from shitty upbringing. Schools can do a hell of a lot more to focus on helping them.

Yeah, I went to college and got two BS degrees and an MBA. I did 2 years at a NYS community college to get the basics out of the way, then 2 years at SU and discovered my original Major wasn't where my head was at (Marketing) and I added a second Major in CompSci and engineering. I lived at home and worked 20 or so hours a week while in college and saved a lot of money. When I graduated I had like a $2K student loan, went to worked F/T at GE in MESO/HMED (Military Electronic Systems Organization/Heavy Military Electronics Department) in a ground level job, and I built my foundation and grew. In college, I never did "Spring Break" - I did take one SU Ski trip to Jackson Hole, WY, however it wasn't like "Girls Gone Wild" in Daytona.

Over the past 60 years, the Democrats and RINOs have slowly dragged America from a Consumer-Based Economy (managed Capitalism, and not like "free range" Capitalism described in "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand who knew a LOT about Communism) to a Social Welfare Economy like Europe had to adopt post-WWII as the counties were a pile of rubble. Problem is, Europe kept with building on Socialism to where it is today. Now, Trump is breaking that ladder to restore America back to a Consumer-Based Economy - call it "Lite Capitalism." And the Dems are acting out like a heroin addict going thru addiction recovery and it is really painful for them.

My point of this diatribe is people have choices to make. Public Ed hasn't done well at all guiding kids with challenges in learning and life in general. We have way too many lazy asses due to Social Welfare who choose not to at least try. There are no jobs that are too low to do, they all have places in society. It's up to a person to find ways to improve if they want. Jobs in the Oil Patch do pay well if you are physically fit enough as well as the military.

In most cases, if you engage in OTC, take a stripper out to “dinner” or do any activity outside the club you’re probably going to learn about their personal life.

Over the years I’ve met all sorts of strippers, ones with an end game in mind post stripping to others just worried about making their tip out for the night.

One thing I always think about is a stripper I did OTC with for 1 1/2 years. I’d meet her probably 3 times every 2 months, we would meet ITC or she’d come to my hotel for OTC, sometimes we’d go out to eat too. She’d talk about her aspirations, etc. and it wasn’t until the end that I realized she had a major drug addiction. I could never figure out if I was just that naive or was she really good at hiding it?

Strippers Cole from all walks of life just like their customers.

===> "Public Ed hasn't done well at all guiding kids with challenges in learning and life in general."

===> "College has turned into a joke for way too many with uber expensive, worthless degrees that can't be monetized."

@mogul1985, at the risk of derailing the thread, you touched upon a huge pet peeve of mine. We turn out way too many kids from High School who have neither a realistic path to a worthwhile college nor any marketable skills to speak of.

Most regular high schools have long ago done away with vocational programs. Yet when confronted with kids who are clearly academically challenged, they will not recommend alternative vo-tech schools for fear of losing those pupils' state and federal funding and pissing off parents. So instead they just pound the "very kid should go to college mantra" even though nothing could be further from the truth.

So instead, kids who really shouldn't be attending college end up in one of the countless expensive "heartbeat and wallet" colleges that have sprung up over the last 50 years. Many of these kids never graduate and the ones who do earn nearly useless degrees, yet they end up shouldering massive amounts of student debt anyway.

Meanwhile we are suffering from a chronic shortage of skilled blue collar workers. I'm talking jobs where kids could realistically be earning 6 figures in their early 20s if they had only attended vo-tech high schools instead of the ones that they were struggling in. Some of these jobs, like electrical and plumbing, even have paths to Master licenses that can eventually allow these people to run crews on large construction sites and make great money.

We have really screwed this up.

Puddy, and Mogul

Its nice you say all that, but its clear to me, youre misinterpreting what I said, and you dont personally know lawyers or doctors, and havent even googled the amount of money they make.

A primary care doctor makes around 150k to 250k a year. They have to specialize in something to earn beyond that, even then, they are only in the 300k-400k range, even the highest paid doctors are neurosurgeons who even then, pull only 700k to 900k a year. By the way, thats working full time, probably even more than 40 hours a week.

Show me a doctor or lawyer who can earn $500 an hour consistently, 40 hours a week. You cant. There might be SOME who earn that much via having a popular enough private practice, but most of them arent earning anywhere close to that.

I know you have trouble with numbers because you believe killing a few hundred israelis is a bigger sin than killing billions of arabs. But ill break it down for you further.

If these so called lawyers or doctors are earning $500 an hour as you claim, or “double that” LOL, they would literally be earning 960k a year.

The truth is, its probably only the top 1% of lawyers and doctors making that 1 million a year. Youre completely clueless if you think your average lawyer or doctor is earning anywhere close to that.

This was years back, but I had a lawyer charge me $1000 flat for several traffic related tickets. That included at least 30 minutes he spent on a phone call with me, as well as a one hour in person consultation, as well as a court hearing, which included roughly an hour of time spent in court, as well as 30 minutes driving time there and back.

This was an established lawyer with his own private legal firm. He probably spent a total of 4 hours of time on me and got paid $1000 for all that.

Seriously, if this is really so difficult for you to understand, you do realize you can just google what kind of money doctors and laywers are earning right? Dont come to me cluelessly claiming your plumber charges $150 an hour so lawyers and doctors charge $1000 an hour.

By the way heres another funny thing, when i get my doctors appointment done, the hospital I get it done at, gets paid $300 for my appointment, which is 30 minutes long.

Thats what the hospital/medical firm charges, not what the doctor personally earns. The doctor themself earns maybe $50 for that 30 minutes of time. Once again run the numbers, if a doctor is working 40+ hours a week, and only making 200k or so a year, that is t anywhere close to $500 an hour.

Its insane to me that you cant figure out this stuff on your own, despite apparently being jn your 40s…

^ When your IQ reaches 80, sell.

On the Dark side? Que John Cafferty and the Beaver Brown Band.

Somewhere out there, Papi_Chulo clicked on this thread excitedly. Soon after, he hit the backspace disappointed.

^ HAHAHAH haven't heard Papi-Chulo's handle mentioned in a long time. Nice!

@rickmacrodong your $1,000 lawyer example is probably more time for the paralegal and less with the actual attorney putting in time as s/he probably does cases like this all the time, and just does "Rinse Lather Repeat." And yes, while the doc isn't pulling down "$500/hr", the whole medical facility and crew need to be covered. I get that more than you'll ever know. Getting thru med-school is not cheap, and that loan needs to be covered.

@rickdugan Yes, I'm on the same page with you. Vocational school, or even military, after high school when I got out was not promoted. College was different back then.

This is why I've liked what Mike Rowe and John Ratzenburger (Cliffy from "Cheers") have been advocating for decades, and they are spot on. Billy Bob Thorton's rant in S1E2 of "Landman" spelled out exactly that windmills and solar are a scam, and that high school grads, GEDs and dropouts can make $180K working the Oil Patch and yes it is very dangerous.

Mike Rowe did a great episode in "How America Works" called "Oil". Even a 1990s episode of Frasier" had a plumber episode with Niles bragging how he recently moved up from a C-class to an E-class Mercedes; plumber responded he had moved to the E-class a year ago.

I grew up in NYS. The vocational program that was started in the late 1940s is called BOCES - "Boards of Cooperative Educational Services." It was for trade schools and was looked down upon back when I graduated in 1975. My high school had Shop classes: 7th Woodworking, 8th Metal Shop, 9-12 Auto Mechanics; after high school while in college I taught myself auto mechanics by working on my '68 Firebird, only thing I couldn't do was turn the heads when I did a value job. Today, I have no idea how BOCES is doing as NYS has fucked-up public ed so badly and I moved to CO in 1983 after college. What I do know are the good trade people I've encountered (plumbing, electrical and masons) are very good at what they do and make a really good living, although they don't pull-up with an E-Class - F-250 or F-350 is more like it.

Public Ed/DoE are failing children on a grand scale, and even worse molding them to how the Progressive Movement wants.

With today's technology, what were once low-paying jobs are great opportunities for those who don't want to go to college right out of high school.

If I were graduating high school today, I'd enroll in the Air Force, do 4-8 years, get my 18-year-old "skull full of mush" together, then make a career choice, maybe even the military for 20+ years. I started college (community college) in Marketing, when onto the 4-year school for marketing and realized I wasn't a Marketing person but rather engineering/CompSci after 7 semesters and I did more to get the dual-degree plus some engineering grad work as GE covered my tuition and books. I selected Marketing as I was told "you can always get a job in Marketing." Great advice, eh?

It's different today. At 18, I was part of the draft pool with Birthday Lotto. I grew-up on seeing Vietnam on TV every night and that is what I knew - KIA, MIA, POWs. I also grew-up with "Duck and Cover" like a desk was going to save me from a nuke blast. The military option back then wasn't what it is today.

That pull yourself up by the bootstraps bs just shows how out of touch with reality you are

Mogul i dont understand your comment about the paralegal. Are you saying it was the paralegal with me in the appointment and at court..? Thats not what happened

Anyway my initial point was theres very few professions and ways to actually be able to charge someone $300, $500, or $1000 an hour.. even the dancers or escorts who are able to charge that much… certainly arent charging that much and booked 40 hours a week… same with doctors or lawyers.. also from my understanding the legal firms or medical firms with millionaire owners, they arent charging a higher amount per hour what i believe theyre doing is hiring additional lawyers or doctors, billing them at say $300 an hour to clients, keeping most of that money for themselves…

Even when you go to a doctors appointment, your insurance company will pay them around $250, $270, $300, etc depending on your copay. The doctor themselves only keeps a very small portion of that.. of course they can open up their own private practice and charge $300 for each appointment and keep the money all for themselves, but even then, its only going to be the very upper end doctors who are making $500 an hour and also booked 40+ hours a week year round