Experiencing My First Month Of OTC

good

It sounds like you have a really good OTC situation going on, where you both really enjoy each others’ company despite the transactional relationship. This will afford you additional perks like staying over, going out together in public, and a genuine GFE, but it will always be a transactional OTC relationship. I’m not saying it’s never happened, but your chances of converting this to a dating situation is 0.000001, and if / when you try to convert it, it will ruin what sounds like a really good OTC situation. My advice would be to keep paying her, enjoy the ride, and see what happens. But expect that the minute you want to “talk about us” it’ll be over.

@iknowbetter

This is the kind of advice I came here for. I would hate for this to end because I made things too serious. I guess I got to ask myself am I cool to keep things as they are for a long period of time. As long as I am still enjoying it I suppose so.

I guess the first question that comes to mind is how much are you paying her, and the second question would be is it worth it to you, as it is right now ?

===> "Am I being the delusional RIL here?"
Yes, yes you are. I'm not saying that she doesn't think you're a nice guy or enjoy talking with you. But being dating material is a completely separate matter. If she would have been out of your league if you met her in a regular bar, then she is still out of your league. She is coming over to your place because she is getting paid.
Just enjoy it for what it is. And if you find yourself struggling to cope with any feelings that you may be developing, you'd save both yourself and her a lot of grief by cutting her loose.

Yeah, I think sexy girls sometimes ask themselves: "what if I had chosen to date nice guys who could provide for me?" rather than the "bad boys" they are attracted to. They might flirt with it for a while, but in the end the bad boys are just too exciting.

Also, in their head, they use the excuse of getting paid to explain to any friends who would see you together why she is out with a "lackluster" guy. (And I say that as someone who would be considered boring and drab.) Sadly for these women, they ultimately won't allow themselves a good boyfriend.

So all I am saying is "enjoy the ride".

Why date her? She’s a stripper who has several dudes that she hooks up with that you don’t when know about. Are you looking to marry her? Just keep doing what you’re doing, you have a good situation. Especially if you feel safe doing it. Be careful, you don’t know who she may know.

I agree with all of the above.

I will add that you're a lucky man. You genuinely like the girl and enjoy spending time with her, beyond just the sex. And, she seems to genuinely like you - within the context of your arrangement.

That's fair and authentic. All human interaction is ultimately conditional, and occurs within a contextual frame. She obviously feels safe and enjoys your company, because she stepped outside her normal OTC restriction. On the condition you keep paying, she can feel good about her decision, and still genuinely have a good time.

A win-win for you both. Stay the course, my friend... 👌

She’s never your’s. It’s just your turn. Enjoy the ride but don’t get blinded by PLuppy love.

IMO you seem to have a really good OTC going with this girl, so enjoy it and there’s no need to overthink unnecessarily. Nothing in life comes for free, you both seem to have great mutual understanding for each other so go with the flow/instincts and have FUN👍🏻

If you were 30 years older than her, I would say you have no chance with her. Since you are in your thirties, you may actually have a chance with her. If you have a professional job and decent looking, I would continue seeing her for another couple months and attempt to find out what her strategy is. You need to get to the point where you do not pay her per meeting because it will never turn out to be long term, just give her some gifts every so often. I know of 3 dancers that married a customer. (Pilot, Doctor, Business Owner). Note: If you are still paying her every time you meet in person 4 months from now, you are being used.

===>"I would continue seeing her for another couple months and attempt to find out what her strategy is." Her "strategy" is to get paid dude, lol. And he's not getting used if he's getting laid for it.

The earlier comment of the impossibility of converting to a regular dating relationship is incorrect. People in regular relationships are still paying. Traditionally the man is paying for the woman not the other way around.
Also the “out of your league” comments are irrelevant. Theres numerous hot women dating ugly, fat, older or all three men.

One thing to consider is if this dancer lives by herself and has to pay rent? Or has roommates and pays rent?
In a “normal dating” situation, if you have your own place and you allow her to move in with you, you are saving her the equivalent of 2k+ a month or whatever her rent was. If youre still taking her out to eat, giving her some money on top of that, that adds further to that 2k+.

If she is coming over to your place because she is getting paid, that also applies to her dating you or marrying you. Theres a stereotype that strippers date broke drug addicts, and while they may be broke, they also likely drug deal or work some sort of job and pay something towards rent/bills.

Well she literally told you she didn't think she could have a boyfriend, so take her at her word. My guess is that since she knows an actual boyfriend would be a mistake at this point in her life, her relationship with you is as much as she'll allow herself. You're "safe" because she thinks you're not going to start acting like a possessive, jealous boyfriend, and you accept her for who she is. She probably likes you in a genuine way, but she would not date you if she had a civilian job. Just enjoy it for what it is, but don't try to make it "official" and make sure you keep paying her.

I dont think paying for each meeting is being used. You would be paying in a normal relationship too, so it makes sense to pay the woman something otherwise its you using her.

But i do think you shouldn’t be paying by the hour. The escorts and dancers who like spending time with their clients dont charge by the hour. At the same time, they only meet the favored client on particular days of the week or particular times. If you expect a dancer to skip working a friday or Saturday night to be with you, you are basically taking away $500+ of her earnings. But if its a monday or tuesday night, she may have only made $100 or nothing those nights anyway.

Likewise with an escort, they often have less clients at 10pm and into the later hours of the night. So if she likes you she may go out to dinner, or even sleepover with you and not charge extra. But if you expect her to take a whole day off with you then you are basically cutting into her earnings

@rightfield most girls are literally dating the nice provider guys youre referring to. The bad boys you refer to are the guys they cheat on their boyfriend or husband with. In most cases a boyfriend, and especially a husband, isnt based on physical attraction. Those are the guys they have meeting their family and friends, posting on social media, living together, so they want someone cleancut, reliable and normal or average.

“Also, in their head, they use the excuse of getting paid to explain to any friends who would see you together why she is out with a "lackluster" guy”

This is completely false. They wont tell their civilian family/friends theyre getting paid at all, because that has a stigma attached to it.

I agree with all of the above, but here is another take that extends the already given advise.

If you really have a chance with her, she is dealing with the same uncomfortable issue of being paid. Most normal people (and I am assuming she has a hint of normal in her if you really have a chance) will be uncomfortable with being directly paid for a 'real' relationship.

So, a legit coarse of action is to enjoy the ride and wait for her to bring up the topic. She will, if you really have a chance. Maybe find ways to do things that provide such an opening for the conversation for her to bring it up... again, if it is true you really have a chance.

Operate on the assumption you don't have a chance until she brings it up. In the mean time, enjoy the ride.

Chances are, this will last <12 months and it one day it will be over. When it does end, let it end on good terms. Be understanding when she says 'she met someone' and needs to end it. One day, her new relationship may end and she goes back to working and either reaches out to you or you run into her in the club again. If that happens, you could go back to the paid relationship, if you let the first end on good terms. At that point you have the option to ask, 'do you want the same paid relationship as before, or are you looking for a new boy friend and want to give it a go?'

It sounds like she didnt meet guys for OTC, but was still doing everything ITC. In this specific situation, OTC for her is about trust and safety, not attraction. But you being the only one she did it with by default puts you in a special standing since it means at a minimum, she trusts you enough, and more than other guys at the club.

She may like you more than other clients, she may be willing to date you as a boyfriend, but as long as she has bills to pay, she’ll keep working the club, unless you’re generous enough to pay her more, or at minimum let her move in with you. I think any dancer whos paying her own rent and bills, could easily be tempted to date and move in with a PL especially if the PLs place is nicer and especially if the PL is not just allowing her to move in but also covering her food and giving an additional spending allowance on top.

Yeah nobody in a relationship gets paid for each sexual encounter, on the other hand it is expected the guy handles the rent and bills and even covers food and gives gifts or money for spending. The key thing is none of it is explicitly given in exchange for sex, yet at the same time, if someoens wife or girl stopped having sex with them, it could end the relationship

Why don't you try taking her on a regular date that doesn't involve sex? Then say you've got an early start the next day and gotta call it a night. See if she asks for money just for the time spent together, or if she keeps pushing for sex despite your statement that you can't this time. If she's like, "Come on, we'll just do a quickie", she's probably trying to justify a payment.

Thanks guys. These responses have been great things to think about. I think the general consensus is to stay the course for a while and feel out where this may go with the assumption that there is a high probability this will all it will ever be. I can live with that.

I think you've already gotten some great advice and it seems like you're on the right path forward.

I am just seeing this thread for the first time, and I wanted to tell you can definitely empathize with your situation. I have a similar growing infatuation for an ATF who I'll see soon, this is a question I think about sometimes:

While I am sure she is enjoying the money, she has to be enjoying my company too right?

The short answer is yes. But it gets more complicated I think.

On stripper's forum recently I saw one stripper recommend the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People". I read this book in sales training years ago. It's good. One of the chapters talks about how to be "genuinely interested" in people. This is something strippers and sex workers do well.

The thing is, genuine interest is still genuine, even if it's cultivated. I use the same sales techniques with my clients, whom I do actually genuinely appreciate and like. Does it matter if I intentionally cultivated that appreciation?

Another thought is, your money is an extension of you. Even if the arrangement is transactional, she can still still enjoy or not enjoy the complete package, which is you + your money, which is really, just you.

And from your description it sounds like she's enjoying herself. She's hanging out late, not rushing out at the first moment. You have some common interests. She's eager to meet you again.

My point is, don't twist yourself into knots wondering if she likes you and appreciates you. She does.

she had mentioned she doesn't think she could have a boyfriend while she's was still working at a strip club

I feel like she's told you pretty clearly, "I don't want a boyfriend". I think you take her at her word.

And also, enjoy the ride. It sounds like a great arrangement that you should continue!

Here’s to hoping you post again in the next 3-6 months and let us all know how this pans out! Great post and thread here. You found a great situation and as long as you can afford it… keep it rolling and see where it goes!

GordieBoi, the thing is there is no scenario where the stripper hooks up with a guy for free, even if its a guy she wants as a boyfriend. If these girls arent banging club clients theyre banging a sugardaddy, escorting, or banging a boyfriend who even if hes not paying for each encounter is still paying something towards the bills, babysitting her kids and so on so forth. There is no such thing as a “non paying situation”. Ive met multiple dancers before who drastically cut back on or even quit dancing entirely when they found a guy willing to pay their bills and let them move in with him.

If she charges you a lower rate than other guys, or if she doesnt ask you for extra money for spending additional time with you, those are signs she “likes” you. But here’s something else to consider- there are a lot of women who want to marry or have kids with a rich guy- so ultimately even if you find a dancer willing to bang you for free and raw, and not charge you anything for it, even then youll never know if she genuinely likes you or likes your money and lifestyle.

So it becomes a pointless exercise trying to figure out if she genuinely likes you, or likes your status or money. Some people even believe women biologically dont love guys the same way guys love women- and that women always love based on status, money, fame etc. other than her not charging you for taking her out to dinner and not charging you for spending extra time with you, you really wont ever know if she solely likes you and not your money. They certainly could like you but still expect payment of some sort because youre taking their time away from being at the club or being with other paying clients

Thanks for the replies everyone. This thread has gone better than I had ever hoped. Some additional thoughts:

Most of you have agreed that I have a good thing going right now with this girl and that there is very little chance this will evolve into anything beyond what it is now. This is a fair assessment. Do I even want or have it in me to date a stripper anyways? I don't know, but I know the way I feel about her right now if she were to ask me tomorrow to be her bf I for sure would say yes.

I do wanna add that we actually have talked about it. I am not sure who brought it up, but this was weeks ago and nothing has seemed to change. In fact I feel the encounters have gotten better. She knows how strongly I feel about her and it hasn't scared her away yet. I did not ask her to be my gf or anything. However, this is where she did tell me that it doesn't make sense for her to have a bf right now. She hasn't had one in several years if she is to be believed.

Now I know this could be a way to softly and tactically reject me and keep me on the spending train. She did mention that I am exactly her type looks and personality wise which is why she broke her OTC rule for me and I am hoping this is why this OTC seems to be working so well (the long hours, no requests for more money, etc).

Again I am sure some of you are going to laugh and be like "oh course she told you that" and you may very well be right. She may be a master at her craft, but I think this is part of the reason this feels very non transactional to me. Again this is my first time doing something like this, so I may just be naïve so bear with me.

Your feelings are getting in your way of having fun. Step away from her for awhile. Otherwise, you will be in a dire mental state very soon.

Her not wanting a bf is so she has freedom to bang and do whatever she wants with clients. Its why girls without boyfriend pimps often provide better, more genuine service than girls with them. The single girl has an easier time having no restrictions on what she can do with clients. Whereas the girl with a bf may not kiss, may not do bbbj, may not allow DATy etc. im not saying it applies in every situation, some girls have a bf who doesnt care what they do with clients as long as she gets paid, and some girls have a bf but will “cheat” and do stuff their bf doesnt want them to do

If she bangs guys ITC but doesnt bang them OTC then it means theres a trust issue or a timing problem. She thinks the other guys may weasel out of paying, they may be dangerous, they may start drama/may try overstaying their time etc. those are some potential issues with OTC. She doesnt have club management or bouncers protecting her and enforcing time limits. Just like you may bang many dancers, but you wouldnt let just any of them over to your place for OTC

Not sure if this changes anything but she does not work at an extras club. There is almost no chance there is any sex happening in this club or BJs even. Strictly forbidden, cameras in every room etc..

Now thats not to say she doesn’t have these sort of feelings toward giving her normal lap dances. She made it seem like when she has a boyfriend she really liked she wouldn’t wanna be around other guys at all. Not ideal to maximize her earnings while she is trying to quit the club soon.

As long as she's meeting your need then what you're spending is still probably less than a full-time girlfriend. Time will tell if she starts giving it to you for free...
If you have mutual attraction then it's a good deal.