^ Vox, Lulz. Can anyone show a pattern of pro-Russian behavior when Putin didn't invade under his watch? Or are you just kicking dirt around Trump in the hopes that some allegation will stick?
@PT As the AP News report indicates, Biden added measures against bad actors from Russia, lacking in the Trump Administration, and Trump dropped them. Trump's actions in Syria benefited Russia: https://apnews.com/article/6cc… . The corresponding corruption of the corporatist Democrats is more subtle. They finance their campaigns through contributions from those who get rich offshoring US jobs. But no other major politician and/or their family directly profits from foreign adversaries the way Trump and his family does.
^ And Putin invaded Georgia and Crimea under Obama, Ukraine under Trump. Putin got stronger under Trump's predecessor and successor but not Trump himself.
It could be that Putin was confident that Trump would block Ukraine from joining NATO. Trump provoked his first impeachment by impounding aid to Ukraine. My speculation is just as valid as your speculative leapfrogging from coincidence to causality. Trump didn't get Russian out of Georgia or Crimea. Trump didn't stop Russia's ongoing proxy war in Eastern Ukraine.
^ Yet Putin said he supported Biden in the last cycle. Are they being honest when they praise Trump and pulling a Jedi mind trick when they praise Democrats?
What, that Russia was provoked? Invading Ukraine might have been inexcusable but yes, we meddled incessantly there, thanks to Chief Cunt Victoria Nuland.
The _people_ of Ukraine, for the first time, want a negotiated settlement to end the war now. Anyone saying "we'll do whatever it takes to defeat Russia" either wants a direct US/Russia war or is living in a dream world.
Giving Donbass to Russia--which it wants to be anyways--in exchange for a muscular peace deal, is the best case for everyone.
Under whom was there less chaos in the region; shit, less chaos and war in the entire world? Is it a coincidence everywhere?
And of course all this is accurate, because PT said so. In the fantasy world were a guy with a cartoon character handle on a pervert website is a reliable primary news source, Trump is a great President.
There's no more reason to say the 2022 invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened without Biden, than there is to say the COVID pandemic wouldn't have happened without Trump.
If you blame Biden for provoking Putin to attack, you should also blame Trump for provoking Hamas to attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
Says someone else with a fake handle (not as clever as he thinks!) on a degenerate website, offering opinions and out of context quotes.
I showed examples of the US meddling in Russia's near-abroad, including things that Putin said were red lines. Does that excuse the invasion? No. But there's a direct line between cause and effect.
Did Trump provoke Hamas? Peace deals are ipso facto a good thing, meddling in other countries' elections when they don't go your way isn't. Trump and the Abraham Accords told the Palestinians that until they unfuck themselves and stop being terrorists, the world will pass them by. Biden's own National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said they had the quietest Middle East in 20 years.
But it would be more accurate to say Biden and Obama, the constant analingus they gave to the mullahs--the unverifiable nuke deal, unfreezing funds, paying huge ransoms for captured Americans, oh, and resuming direct aid to Palestine, played even more of a role.
Trump has 4 years to undo the Biden/Obama damage in the Middle East. Here's hoping he does.
^ Are you willing to put NATO on the ground to preserve Ukraine, let alone take back Crimea?
Ukraine is literally running out of soldiers. Russia is larger, more committed than we are, and _right there._ Our negotiating position will not improve.
@PT when the facts I refer to are challenged, I provide links to primary news sources. Reuters has the highest standards, but they are among those that have pay walls. AP News is not as good about sticking to neutral language, and they let some analysis leak into nominally straight news articles. But AP gets points for being non-profit. Other established news sources do this, also favoring the left but more strongly, or strongly favoring the right. I don't rely on pundits, or comedian-pundits, as news sources. I don't think my handle is clever, or that anyone should trust what I say, unless I back it with a trustworthy news source.
Zelenskyy was elected in 2019, and COVID impaired Russia's ability to react more quickly. That seems a more plausible explanation for the timing of the invasion, as opposed to Ukraine possibly joining NATO at some unspecified date years in the future.
I personally am not provoked by the Abraham Accord, I said Hamas was. Palestinians had good reason to be angry at HOW the Abraham Accord was achieved: by the Trump Administration saying it would recognize formal Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem and other parts of the West Bank.
How did US aid to Palestinians support Hamas's attack on Israel? You can't starve out Hamas without starving out all of Gaza. It's plausible to argue that October 7 justifies that. But, that might put the governments of Arab/Muslim countries in a situation where they would either make war on Israel, or be overthrown by new governments that would.
It's not for us to negotiate for Ukraine. The US will decide whether to increase, maintain, reduce or stop assistance to Ukraine. Imagine if, when Japan invaded China in 1931, the US had embarked on strongly supporting China, rearming itself, and fortifying The Philippines. It makes no sense to pressure Ukraine to give up before they are ready. If a deal was made for Ukraine to give up territory and get immediate membership in NATO, that would be a peace that had a chance of lasting. But I don't think Putin would ever agree to that, and it wouldn't save the US any money.
The Trump Administration caused Iran to move closer to having nuclear weapons.
I refer you to Hitchens' Razor--"that which you assert without evidence, I can deny without evidence."
COVID delaying the invasion? Idle speculation. "Starving out" Hamas justifying October 7? Idle speculation. Overthrowing Arab/Muslim countries because they _wouldn't_ make war on Israel? Idle speculation. The Trump administration caused Iran to move closer to having nukes? Not grounded in evidence whatsoever.
You rely on assertions on top of assertions to justify the liberal worldview, which is why geopolitics were so much more fraught after Biden than after Trump.
Comments
last commentPutin got stronger under Trump's predecessor and successor but not Trump himself.
Trump not fixing Obama's fuckups in the area doesn't suddenly make him a Putin stooge.
The _people_ of Ukraine, for the first time, want a negotiated settlement to end the war now. Anyone saying "we'll do whatever it takes to defeat Russia" either wants a direct US/Russia war or is living in a dream world.
Giving Donbass to Russia--which it wants to be anyways--in exchange for a muscular peace deal, is the best case for everyone.
Under whom was there less chaos in the region; shit, less chaos and war in the entire world? Is it a coincidence everywhere?
There's no more reason to say the 2022 invasion of Ukraine wouldn't have happened without Biden, than there is to say the COVID pandemic wouldn't have happened without Trump.
If you blame Biden for provoking Putin to attack, you should also blame Trump for provoking Hamas to attack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
I showed examples of the US meddling in Russia's near-abroad, including things that Putin said were red lines. Does that excuse the invasion? No. But there's a direct line between cause and effect.
Did Trump provoke Hamas? Peace deals are ipso facto a good thing, meddling in other countries' elections when they don't go your way isn't. Trump and the Abraham Accords told the Palestinians that until they unfuck themselves and stop being terrorists, the world will pass them by. Biden's own National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan said they had the quietest Middle East in 20 years.
But it would be more accurate to say Biden and Obama, the constant analingus they gave to the mullahs--the unverifiable nuke deal, unfreezing funds, paying huge ransoms for captured Americans, oh, and resuming direct aid to Palestine, played even more of a role.
Trump has 4 years to undo the Biden/Obama damage in the Middle East. Here's hoping he does.
Are you taking your history lessons from Neville Chamberlain ?
Ukraine is literally running out of soldiers. Russia is larger, more committed than we are, and _right there._ Our negotiating position will not improve.
Zelenskyy was elected in 2019, and COVID impaired Russia's ability to react more quickly. That seems a more plausible explanation for the timing of the invasion, as opposed to Ukraine possibly joining NATO at some unspecified date years in the future.
I personally am not provoked by the Abraham Accord, I said Hamas was. Palestinians had good reason to be angry at HOW the Abraham Accord was achieved: by the Trump Administration saying it would recognize formal Israeli annexation of East Jerusalem and other parts of the West Bank.
How did US aid to Palestinians support Hamas's attack on Israel? You can't starve out Hamas without starving out all of Gaza. It's plausible to argue that October 7 justifies that. But, that might put the governments of Arab/Muslim countries in a situation where they would either make war on Israel, or be overthrown by new governments that would.
It's not for us to negotiate for Ukraine. The US will decide whether to increase, maintain, reduce or stop assistance to Ukraine. Imagine if, when Japan invaded China in 1931, the US had embarked on strongly supporting China, rearming itself, and fortifying The Philippines. It makes no sense to pressure Ukraine to give up before they are ready. If a deal was made for Ukraine to give up territory and get immediate membership in NATO, that would be a peace that had a chance of lasting. But I don't think Putin would ever agree to that, and it wouldn't save the US any money.
The Trump Administration caused Iran to move closer to having nuclear weapons.
COVID delaying the invasion? Idle speculation.
"Starving out" Hamas justifying October 7? Idle speculation.
Overthrowing Arab/Muslim countries because they _wouldn't_ make war on Israel? Idle speculation.
The Trump administration caused Iran to move closer to having nukes? Not grounded in evidence whatsoever.
You rely on assertions on top of assertions to justify the liberal worldview, which is why geopolitics were so much more fraught after Biden than after Trump.