End of Birthright Citizenship

avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
Verified and Certifiable Super-Reviewer
As many here know, one of the numerous executive orders Trump signed included an end to birthright citizenship. He is Obviously hoping to stop immigrants from coming here and having so-called "anchor babies."

IMO this was by far the most profound and controversial executive order he signed. Any woman hoping to have children here would need to seriously rethink that plan if the child could not enjoy the basic rights of U.S. citizenship.

It is also Unconstitutional. The Constitution provides that:

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The part pertaining to "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" has only been interpreted to exclude people who, for one reason or another, were exempt from some or all U.S. laws, which is definitely not the case for illegal immigrants.

This will never survive court challenge, but it will cause untold havoc while it works through the courts.

Also imagine the harm this would cause so many new babies born here. Right now we already have an estimated 3 million so-called "Dreamers" here in the U.S., who were minors when they were brought here by their parents and know little to nothing about the places they came from. How many more millions would grow up like this if this were upheld? The inhumanity is mind numbing. These are kids who grow up here, attend our schools and are fully Americanized, yet they cannot fully participate in the U.S. economy. This is truly a horrible purgatory to be stuck in.

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avatar for Puddy Tat
Puddy Tat
a day ago
I don't know if an EO can do that. The key precedent is Wong Kim Ark that established birthright citizenship. It's been in place a long ass time. The Supreme Court would have to overturn that, probably by deeming "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" as being a legal resident. It'll go through the courts, and if it reaches SCOTUS, it could get overturned; I would give any semi-reasonable conservative case a fighting chance there.

But I still think Trump took a maximalist position on illegal immigration in order to get bargained down. That's his MO. It's Jose the TdA gangster that most people care about, not Juan the landscaper. From a purely practical standpoint, deporting 12 million illegals is only slightly more feasible than confiscating half a billion guns.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
a day ago
Trump cannot end birthright citizenship and no one claiming it will be deported while the cases are pending. The correct, but dull way to make birthright citizenship less palatable is to pass a law that any non-citizen parent of a birthright citizen child, can never become a citizen and is eligible for no more than (choose a number) visas/entry lifetime.
Birthright citizenship was meant for one thing and one thing only: to make newly freed slaves, born in this country, citizens. Like everything else good, progressives took it, used people weaker than them as weapons and ruined it. Progressives love the Palestinians, because they use and abuse people the same way. The kids can stay, the parent have to go as they weren't bown here. In addition, asylum has to be ended. Make it fair and end it for all.
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
a day ago
===> "if it reaches SCOTUS, it could get overturned; I would give any semi-reasonable conservative case a fighting chance there."

Normally I would agree, but I just don't see SCOTUS overturning this. We're talking about the children of people living and working here, whether the parents are citizens or not. The Founding Fathers made their intent in adopting this provision very clear in their deliberations, which included giving immigrants the opportunity to come here and bear children who would enjoy the privileges of citizenship.
avatar for Puddy Tat
Puddy Tat
a day ago
^ I agree that it's unlikely, but I'm not an expert. Most people didn't think the court would overturn Roe. I predict that within these next 4 years, Thomas and Sotomayor will be replaced with young conservatives. 7-2 is formidable.
avatar for gammanu95
gammanu95
a day ago
That amendment was made after the Emancipation Proclamation to ensure that freed slaves' children would have the right to legally vote. I think there is a weak link in the qualification "subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Birth tourists, who come to the US strictly to give birth and provide their babies US citizenship, and illegal aliens can be adequately described as not subject to the jurisdiction of the US. At the very least, it can be begin the discussion to amend or repeal that 14th amendment, which is sorely overdue.
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
a day ago
@Puddy: The same reason that Roe vs. Wade was overturned is the same reason that this will survive. Many of the Conservative justices are constitutional constructionists.

In this case, the intent of the drafters was clear, as set forth in records of the deliberations. They actually knew that this could entice others to come here and give birth. Back then that was considered a positive outcome given how young the country was and how much more land we had to populate.

And there is ample case history as to why illegal immigrants are considered "subject to the jurisdiction thereof." After all, what federal laws are they exempt from? They can be prosecuted for breaking federal law just like anyone else who is here, except for official foreign diplomats and enemy occupiers (which do not have birthright citizenship).

I'm guessing that if this goes to SCOTUS, it comes out 7-2 or even 8-1 in favor of voiding this EO.

If Trump wants this to end, he'll need to get the ball rolling on a Constitutional Amendment. Good luck with that, lol.
avatar for twentyfive
twentyfive
a day ago
My understanding is that birthright citizenship has always been the law of the United States, the Wong case confirmed that right, not created a new right it basically stated that the right existed as part of the original constitution.
avatar for Rapier691
Rapier691
a day ago
It's in the constitution. They'd need an amendment to change it. He can sign anything he wants, doesn't make it so. A few of the EO's he signed were like that though and I doubt anyone will pursue them all.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
a day ago
If birthright citizenship was in the original constitution, you'd be able to read it there, but it isn't, hence the 14th argument. Of course, if the Supreme Court wanted to act like the assholes who decided Roe v. Wade, they could cancel it by just stating that the 14th amendment only applied to slaves and that not being in the original document it cannot exist. It is called strict contructionsim.
Thge only Scotus Wong case I know of has zip to do with immigration and only ruled that the fruits of an illegal entry (verbal, drugs) could not be used in Court. Every Motion to supress ever filed cites it.
avatar for Icey
Icey
21 hours ago
The 14 th amendment means anyone born in or naturalized in the US is a citizen. With a provision including former slaves. This was meant to ensure equal rights and equal representation before the law.

Trumps executive order will be overturned

It also bars insurrectionists. Insurrection supporters. From holding public office.
avatar for whodey
whodey
20 hours ago
Rapier, the Constitution also guarantees the right to bear arms but that hasn't stopped democrats from passing countless gun control laws that violate the 2nd amendment.

As for the 14th amendment, it has never been applied to every child born in the United States. For instance, children born to foreign diplomats that have been born in US hospitals have never been considered American citizens. That is because it was meant to solidify the Civil Rights Act of 1866 which granted citizenship to anyone born in the United States "not subject to any foreign power". The courts have held that children of foreign diplomats are subject to the foreign power of the country their parents are serving as diplomats for. The courts have also decided that children of foreign nationals born on military bases overseas and at US embassies in other countries (both of which are considered American soil) are not US citizens just because they were born on those types of US soil.

I suppose the courts could stretch those types of exemptions to apply to children born in the US where neither parent is lawfully in the country or just on a temporary visa by saying that the parents are subject to a foreign power. However, it would be quite a stretch especially if the parents claim that they renounced their citizenship to that foreign country by seeking refugee status by fleeing to the US.

It's going to be interesting to see how the courts handle this issue.
avatar for Muddy
Muddy
19 hours ago
You know we're basically the only dopes stupid enough to this by the way. Talk about perverse incentive.

Open borders doesn't work. It's globalist propaganda you guys slurping up. Not every thing is about the cost of labour. Do you guys ever bring up healthcare costs, how about crime. Do you see the places this "immigration" is coming from. Then funny enough when they get here, wherever they goes turns into a mad max fucked up hellscape. The nature of third world immigration is you have to pay for it, dearly. Most of these folks will be going on the doll for the duration of their lifespans, you taxpayer get to pay for all of it. The liberal media ofcourse leaves all that part out.
avatar for Muddy
Muddy
19 hours ago
I mean look at europe. They imported the islamic world for "diversity" and "but they need the workers" Now London is an Islamic city, the folks there are calling for Shariah law. Elon Musk brought up again that horrible story of pakistani muslim men, brutally gang raping again and again white british girls. Have you read of some of those details on these cases? 11, 12 year old girls. Utter insanity. I mean what else is going to take to wake people up? Some of these cultures are not compatible, at all. This is America, we don't do that in this country.

We can be nice to our neighbors. Have respect for them. But everyone can't live our house. We have to boundaries and be able to say no.
avatar for Icey
Icey
16 hours ago
Some of you are fucking idiots pretending to understand constitutional law 😂 😭 🤡 💩
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
9 hours ago
@Muddy, so what are you suggesting, that the Latinos who are pouring into this country are going to start a violent Catholic revolt? 😆

We do need the workers. The UK is fucked up in too many ways to easily list, which is why this nonsense goes on there.
avatar for gammanu95
gammanu95
6 hours ago
We can import the workers through H1B visas. However, that does not mean the H1B visa employees can pop out anchor babies as US citizens to cement their stay in our country. And no, we don't need the workers. We need more manufacturing and well-paying jobs, then we can talk about adding workers.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
6 hours ago
We can oretend to be constitutional experts here as long as Icey, the left-wing home, pretend to be a heterosexual man who goes to strip clubs because he works and has money.
avatar for rickdugan
rickdugan
5 hours ago
===> "We can import the workers through H1B visas."

Right Gam, because that's been working out swimmingly so far.

And we sure as fuck do need the workers, and then some. Just imagine if Trump could actually deport several million illegals, who currently represent 5% of our workforce right now doing things that our kids don't want to do. We'd be screwed.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
5 hours ago
^ When kids get cold and hungry enough they will work. If nor their parents can work more.
avatar for JamesSD
JamesSD
5 hours ago
I'll be shocked if the Trump court overturns anything Trump is doing.
avatar for Mate27
Mate27
4 hours ago
Says SkiDumb, which thankfully for our world never bred any offspring.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
4 hours ago
^another minute passes and this homo retard reminds us he is the feces you stepped I'm
avatar for Studme53
Studme53
3 hours ago
No 1st world country in Europe or Asia has birthright citizenship. They recognize it as an inducement for illegal immigration.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
3 hours ago
^ they know that. Those in favor of illegals hate America.
avatar for Mate27
Mate27
2 hours ago
You’re so stupid, I’m amazed you can even breathe!
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
2 hours ago
^lol. You suck at everything. You cannot even come up with an insult.
avatar for Mate27
Mate27
2 hours ago
Go mount Washington!
avatar for gammanu95
gammanu95
2 hours ago
Unsurprisingly, the district court in Seattle blocked this Trump EO. Fortunately, the conversation has been started. Is up to the GOP in Congress to start legislation to repeal or update the 14th amendment.
avatar for skibum609
skibum609
an hour ago
Legislation cannot be used to repeal an amendment, except proposing an amendment in Congress; getting it passed by 2/3 of each branch (not possible now and unlikely ever) and in the unlikely event it passes, then 3/4 of the states (38) have to pass it before it becomes an amendment and that won't happen either.
The second way, which never has and never will happen is for 2/3 (34) of the states to pass legislation demanding a constitutional convention. The reason it never happens, but has come close twice, is that once it starts they could theoretically agree to get rid of every single right under the Constitution and have the Presidenr and Congress be permitted to serve forever under the new Constitution.
If we want to change birthright citzenship is to pass regulations and legislation that harms every state that refuses to ratify the amendment.It works. Every state has a b.a.c limit for driving of no more than .08%. No federal law mandates it, whcih would be unconstitutional. All Highway and Transportation had to do to get every state (mine was the last with its 2/3 lawyers legislature) to sign on was pass a regulation stating that only states with a .o8 b.c.a law get matching highway funds. This is the way to get rid of birthright citizenship.
avatar for Studme53
Studme53
an hour ago
Fun fact:
There has been a growing trend, especially amongst Asian and African visitors from Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Taiwan and Nigeria to the United States, to make use of "Birth Hotels" to secure US citizenship for their child and leave open the possibility of future immigration by the parents to the United States. Pregnant women typically spend around $20,000 to stay in the facilities during their final months of pregnancy and an additional month to recuperate and await their new baby's U.S. passport.
avatar for gammanu95
gammanu95
17 minutes ago
^^It is going to have to originate in the US congress. The Supremacy Clause makes it impossible for any state to enforce legislation or regulation that conflicts with the 14th amendment. In the currently narrowly divided Congress, we will never meet 2/3 majority needed to pass an amendment, although there is a chance that it could pass with only 12 states objecting (a slim chance). I would like to see such a bill passed to protect our Republic, but to win the necessary majority in both chambers, the GOP will need to rack up some serious wins in the next two years.
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