Mass Deportations: what will the impact be?
drewcareypnw
Since this is about to move from the rhetorical to the real, it is interesting to consider the impacts. My guess...
1. Lot of ruckus as bleeding heart types tie themselves to taco trucks or whatever meaningless drama displays. Sad talk and tsk tsk from the reanimated Maddow show. Gringos with nothing better to do stage feel-good protests and fight with cops, etc.
2. ICE runs short on budget... this is going to cost, and the money has to come from somewhere.
3. Detention centers fill up. Again a budget issue, but enterprising corporate prisons will probably find a way.
4. Repatriation costs climb. Sending these people home costs money too, there is also the question of whether their home countries want them.
5. Will there or won't there be a commensurate rise in the price of agricultural and meat packing goods, restaurant meals, construction, laundry services, etc. ? These are the traditional destinations for illegals, and the facile economic analysis suggests that this will cost the consumer. But who knows, we've never really tried it.
6. Will crime rates drop or stay the same? Different studies suggest different criminal profiles for illegal immigrants. I've certainly read some that suggest that they are less likely to offend, and I'm sure some of you have read something to the contrary. It's hard to imagine a minority of 3% o the population having a big impact.
7. Will there be some kind of new day in America? Will this change things materially for working class or any citizens?
8. What will stop them coming back? If we spend a bunch of coin to arrest, detain, house, and transport someone back home and they turn around and sneak back... that could get expensive.
TBH I could GAF about illegal immigrants getting kicked out of the USA. Lining up with foreign shivering masses is an arbitrary liberal sacred cow. I'm a lot more interested in the welfare of our *own* citizens, I'd like to see the least of us better paid, housed, fed, etc. before we start working on the considerable problems of the rest of the world.
Maybe Trump (Orange Turd) is on to something. My gut says is that he is not. It's easy to look at someone different and say "that's the problem". Actually improving the quality of life in America is going to be complicated, and a simple fix like "kick out all the illegals" isn't going to move the needle. Or if it does, it will move several needles: some good and some bad.
1. Lot of ruckus as bleeding heart types tie themselves to taco trucks or whatever meaningless drama displays. Sad talk and tsk tsk from the reanimated Maddow show. Gringos with nothing better to do stage feel-good protests and fight with cops, etc.
2. ICE runs short on budget... this is going to cost, and the money has to come from somewhere.
3. Detention centers fill up. Again a budget issue, but enterprising corporate prisons will probably find a way.
4. Repatriation costs climb. Sending these people home costs money too, there is also the question of whether their home countries want them.
5. Will there or won't there be a commensurate rise in the price of agricultural and meat packing goods, restaurant meals, construction, laundry services, etc. ? These are the traditional destinations for illegals, and the facile economic analysis suggests that this will cost the consumer. But who knows, we've never really tried it.
6. Will crime rates drop or stay the same? Different studies suggest different criminal profiles for illegal immigrants. I've certainly read some that suggest that they are less likely to offend, and I'm sure some of you have read something to the contrary. It's hard to imagine a minority of 3% o the population having a big impact.
7. Will there be some kind of new day in America? Will this change things materially for working class or any citizens?
8. What will stop them coming back? If we spend a bunch of coin to arrest, detain, house, and transport someone back home and they turn around and sneak back... that could get expensive.
TBH I could GAF about illegal immigrants getting kicked out of the USA. Lining up with foreign shivering masses is an arbitrary liberal sacred cow. I'm a lot more interested in the welfare of our *own* citizens, I'd like to see the least of us better paid, housed, fed, etc. before we start working on the considerable problems of the rest of the world.
Maybe Trump (Orange Turd) is on to something. My gut says is that he is not. It's easy to look at someone different and say "that's the problem". Actually improving the quality of life in America is going to be complicated, and a simple fix like "kick out all the illegals" isn't going to move the needle. Or if it does, it will move several needles: some good and some bad.
Comments
last comment***That's where DOGE comes in.
3. Detention centers fill up. Again a budget issue, but enterprising corporate prisons will probably find a way.
***80/20 rule. Trump isn't going to sweep up every illegal as he finds them. Low-hanging fruit first.
4. Repatriation costs climb. Sending these people home costs money too, there is also the question of whether their home countries want them.
***Perhaps he can repurpose the budget for Biden/Mayorkas flying them all over the country. If I were Trump, I'd say if you don't accept them, we're going to tax remittances to your country 200%. They'll play ball right quickly.
5. Will there or won't there be a commensurate rise in the price of agricultural and meat packing goods, restaurant meals, construction, laundry services, etc. ? These are the traditional destinations for illegals, and the facile economic analysis suggests that this will cost the consumer. But who knows, we've never really tried it.
***Again, 80/20. Trump can go after the big corporations who employ them, but not every contractor scouring the Home Depot parking lot for day labor. If Trump _really_ wanted to send illegals home, he'd go after the employers.
6. Will crime rates drop or stay the same? Different studies suggest different criminal profiles for illegal immigrants. I've certainly read some that suggest that they are less likely to offend, and I'm sure some of you have read something to the contrary. It's hard to imagine a minority of 3% o the population having a big impact.
***He will prioritize nests of criminals and gangsters in cities like New York and Denver where they have taken hold. Crime will drop.
7. Will there be some kind of new day in America? Will this change things materially for working class or any citizens?
***Not right away. Deportations will take time, and it will take even more time to feel the impact. I don't think Trump will ever deport even half of them. Just the most problematic ones. The greatest impact, as with a lot of Trump's actions, will be an increase in social cohesion and a return to pride in America, as opposed to Democrats' groveling before effete Europeans and the Davos/Brussels crowd. Hopefully, we bolster this with a return to merit-based immigration, no chain migration, no birthright citizenship via a reinterpretation of the 14th amendment.
8. What will stop them coming back? If we spend a bunch of coin to arrest, detain, house, and transport someone back home and they turn around and sneak back... that could get expensive.
***Trump has always talked about countermeasures to keep them out. But not demoralizing and unjustly accusing the Border Patrol, funding it, and not rolling out the red carpet, is a great place to start.
TBH I could GAF about illegal immigrants getting kicked out of the USA. Lining up with foreign shivering masses is an arbitrary liberal sacred cow.
***Someone tell the libs that the poem on the Statue of Liberty was written in a different time, and was never signed into law.
I'm a lot more interested in the welfare of our *own* citizens, I'd like to see the least of us better paid, housed, fed, etc. before we start working on the considerable problems of the rest of the world.
***Yes. We cannot get rich by importing poverty (and terror) from all over the world. Half the libs here are incels who care more about cheap illegal Latin ass than the welfare of Americans. They should be laughed at, at every opportunity. You're starting to sound Republican. Progress! ;)
Actually improving the quality of life in America is going to be complicated, and a simple fix like "kick out all the illegals" isn't going to move the needle. Or if it does, it will move several needles: some good and some bad.
***"Kicking out all the illegals" is like "I'll end the Ukraine War within 24 hours." It's directional intent but highly exaggerated. I think Trump will deport the worst of them, reinstitute Remain In Mexico with some threats, fortify the border, and that's that. Until the next Democrat wants to import another 11 million illegals and register them to vote.
On a different note, I doubt Trump will ever go after the true cause of out of control border crossing, as the main culprit is the employers, and he along with his buddies, that will get the biggest tax breaks, are among the worst abusers of the system that employs illegal aliens.
(If they couldn't find sufficient work, they'd all self deport, and/or stop coming)
2. No, many millions of dollars will be saved when illegals are moved from hotels with SNAP cards, free everything, free spending cash, to criminal detention facilities where they await deportations
3. We can build new ones.
4. see #2
5. It is better to protect Americans' personal security and national security than to feed money to Cartels, Coyotes, identity thieves, dealers, and sex traffickers. The money saved from suuporting tens of millions of illegals can be fed back into the federal budget to lower taxes and enact inflation reducing measures to grow wages and increase employment opportunities for citizens and lawful workers.
6. Stupid question. Of course, crime will decrease. See #5
7. More jobs, less crime, lower taxes. Yes.
8. The same way Trump created the lowest rates of illegal immigration in his first term.
“ Wise men speak when the have something to say, fools like you feel a need to say something when they don’t have anything else to offer. “
What a stupid little child you are.
First, the most 80’s thing that ever 80’ed is this: Rob Lowe made a yacht rock demo with the members of Toto while high on cocaine.
Second, the stupidest thing about an argument in TUSCL political thread in the history of TUSCL political threads is this: Gamma thinking he won an argument by stating that a Mark Twain quote should not be attributed Samuel Clemens despite acknowledging that Clemens’ pen name is (lemme check my lion-y notes) Mark Twain.
ROAR!!!
First, Gamma will praise every Trump’s every utterance as the most genius thing that ever geniused. He will do so in a way that makes it clear that he is jacking off while typing his praise of Trump. However, Gamma will be even angrier than he was during the Biden presidency for some inexplicable reason.
Second, Skifredo will just be really angry all of the time. He may confess to TUSCL that the only way he can get an erection is by staring at a photo of Hillary Clinton until he is completely enraged (and oddly turned on).
Anybody wanna bet against these lion-y predictions?
I didn’t think so…ROAR!!!
Third, a few drama queens on this board will continue to treat every Trump utterance as set in stone and engage in endless melodrama and doomsaying.
For example: "Since this is about to move from the rhetorical to the real..." LOL. No, it isn't, and anyone with a lick of sense knows this. They'll definitely go after the ones with criminal convictions and will no doubt engage in a few splashy raids, but they simply have no way to pull off mass deportations.
Seriously now. Even if they had even a fraction of the manpower, and they do not, how would you even track a lot of these people down? Many of them don't have their names on almost anything except for rental agreements that aren't public.
As usual, the dugan is right.
I don’t know exactly what is going to happen. But one thing this lion does know that we’re not going to gain insights from reading social media, listening to hyperbole, and posting 40-page essays on a site for demented perverts.
C’mon folks…embrace your inner pervert and have some frickin’ fun. ROAR!!!
I will comment on your discussion:
“Let us all hope that the dark clouds of racial prejudice will soon pass away, and that in some not too distant tomorrow the radiant stars of love and brotherhood will shine over our great nation with all their scintillating beauty.”
~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
Clutch your pearls, scream at the sky, rage type here and elsewhere. I think by the midterm elections all of our lives will be so much better, even for those who refuse to admit it.
"For example: 'Since this is about to move from the rhetorical to the real...' LOL. No, it isn't"
Yes, it is.
1. The Rhetorical: President elect Orangeturd has stated his intent to begin a large deportation when he is elected. Per Trump, the deportation will be so large that it will be the largest in history.
quote: " 'On my first day back in the Oval Office, I will sign a historic slate of executive orders to close our border to illegal aliens and stop the invasion of our country,' Trump proclaimed to a friendly crowd at Turning Point Action’s AmericaFest conference in Phoenix."
“And on that same day, we will begin the largest deportation operation in American history, larger even than that of President Dwight D Eisenhower,”
https://nypost.com/2024/12/22/…
Rhetorical: adjective - expressed in terms intended to persuade or impress. e.g. "the rhetorical commitment of the government to give priority to primary education"
...since OT wasn't in power prior to tomorrow, we may say that his statements were merely rhetorical. You seem to suggest that they will remain rhetorical. However, I invite you to consider point 2.
2. The Real.
quote: "Trump to Begin Large-Scale Deportations Tuesday
Chicago will be an early target, with as many as 200 officers being sent to carry out the operation, say people familiar with the planning"
https://www.wsj.com/politics/p…
Real: adjective - actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed. e.g. "Julius Caesar was a real person"
...according to the WSJ, large scale deportations will begin Monday. Since these will actually exist, we may say that the deportations will be real.
Proof:
1. trump spoke rhetorically (to impress and persuade) about mass deportation prior to his upcoming presidency.
2. real, large scale deportations will begin Monday.
3. The deportation are about to move from the Rhetorical to the Real.
QED
queue default accusations of shrill girliness...
No less a lib than Ezra Klein pointed to Biden's "everything bagel liberalism," meaning that he felt he had to placate every faction of the Democratic party before proceeding. A bone to the DEI crowd, saying an N% of it had to go to minority/LGBTQ/female-owned businesses...a bone to the unions, that they had to pay inflated union wages. That's how you spend $42 billion for rural broadband and still can't connect a single household. Or 7 EV charging stations for a billion.
A strong economy isn't a sure thing; Trump's going to inherit inflation that's down but not out, a record high level of consumer debt, and more. But Trump's already spurring a glut of investment and optimism, as opposed to the Democratic agenda of grievance and decline.
Yes, lib politicians go out of their way to placate each tiny minority. But it's important to remember that by doing so, they're actually simultaneously placating a majority: the woke self hating white guilt liberal that wants to be able to say that he supports that tiny minority and does so by proxy exactly once a year on voting day. It's the modern equivalent of "oh, rest assured, I have *lots* of black friends".
To quote Dugan: "we do it to ourselves". Democracy is mostly working fine for Dems. We have the politicians that reflect our values, unfortunately we have the politician that reflect our values. Which are a mess.
I'd place Dem unity more on the leadership of Nancy Pelosi and now Hakeem Jeffries than anything Biden did.
That politicians reflect your values isn't "working fine," it's what took you down two months ago. Your values look to be:
1. Extreme feminization; no less a liberal than Joe Klein lamented this. Abortion vans outside the DNC. The Obamas browbeating black men into voting for a woman. Julia Roberts treating women as oppressed and having to hide their votes from their husbands.
2. LGBTQ extremism
3. Racial grievance politics, which totally missed what black and Latin men voted upon. Open borders are related to this.
4. Profligate spending on Dem pet priorities like climate change, which is near the bottom of the average American's priority list.
5. And encompassing all of this, contempt for the working class, particularly the white working class, treating them like retards who didn't know what's best for them.
Bernie was right; the working class just struck back.
Wrt “working fine”, the point is we have more or less on brand representation, not that the representation results in a winning ticket.
That said, the notion that the country just shifted right is overblown and smells of gop triumphalism. Any party that presented a demented old man for a candidate and then sat on the election for a month only to run a black woman with no positions would be loser.
That on-brand representation is the problem.
In 2020, with COVID, Trump was so overexposed and in everyone's face that being Not Trump was enough. Biden ran on being a moderate, then broke hard left in office. Insiders say he was obsessed with being a transformational liberal president. I don't think history will be kind to him.
In 2024, I don't know if Democrats thought Trump would be so radioactive that they could run an outrageously left-wing ticket and succeed, or they just listened to their hard left flank and didn't get out into middle America and thought they _could_ sell a hard left platform. But they _did_ run a hard left platform (oh, I forgot anti-Semitism. Queers for Palestine, lulz, that's like sheep for wolves. If they didn't try to placate their Jew-haters, they might have chosen the popular, swing state Josh Shapiro). I don't think the country shifted right as much as the Democrats shifted left. You ran the most liberal member of the Senate during her tenure, and she chose the most liberal governor in the country. How the hell does that appeal to the center?
I lay Biden's last minute withdrawal on the Democratic party, too. We've been calling out Biden's dementia for years; you insisted otherwise. "Sharp as a tack," yeah, no. It was reported in early 2024 that he needed handlers to make sure he didn't embarrass himself. Dems didn't yank him because he had dementia, they yanked him because they couldn't hide it any longer. And no fucking way the identity politics-obsessed party could shove a black woman aside. Crisis of their own making.
And while I see the arguments otherwise, I disagree that Harris would have won with a longer runway. She had her time in 2019 and came in 5th in her own state. Biden admitted choosing her for her skin color and genitalia. She spent $2 billion dollars; if you can spend that much and not get your message across, you are either the world's shittiest communicator or your message fucking sucks.
If Trump is more effective and less obnoxious--and there's reason to believe that--the country might just shift to the right.
But 2024 is Democrats hoisted on their own petards.
You realize that there are conservatively over 12 million illegal immigrants in this country now, no? An estimated 530,000 of them are in Illinois alone. Just how many of those half million immigrants do you think a couple of hundred agents are going to realistically round up?
It helps to calm down, think and maybe even take a look at the situation before becoming melodramatic. Just a thought.
“In 2020, with COVID, Trump was so overexposed and in everyone's face that being Not Trump was enough. “
Correct.
“Biden ran on being a moderate,”
Correct.
“then broke hard left in office”
Incorrect. That’s an exaggeration. There’s nothing “hard left” about a country with no universal health care. By this measure Europe is a totalitarian Bolshevik state. Maybe in right wing circles where the EPA is the definition of jack booted thugs, but not in real life.
“Insiders say he was obsessed with being a transformational liberal president”
Seems plausible, but who knows.
“I don't think history will be kind to him.”
I agree. It won’t be for being transformational, liberal, or hard left. If you are a lib, it will be because he lied about his mental state, sat on the election for a month because “he’s stubborn”, and blew up any chance of dems winning the election. To be clear, Kamala was no one’s first choice.
If you’re a right winger, he will be judged unkindly simply for being not a conservative.
IF Trump is serious about removing illegals, there is announcements effective path forward.
1. Focus on criminals first. That is already stated policy
2. Require businesses verify employment eligibility and pass a law adding penalties for non compliance. Right now it is a state by state situation.
2.1. While waiting to pass the law, require anyone who does business with the federal government to use e-verify, or whatever it's called.
3. Tax remittances at 25% and clamp down on welfare benefits to immigrants.
Doing this will, make visible deportation effort, reduce the pull of getting jobs under the table, increase cost to send out money and make the cost of staying higher. People respond to incentives. Change the current incentive structure and many will self deport.
Trump then claims victory after building the wall and everyone pretends the remaining illegals aren't here.
Stripping away your usual go to cries “melodrama”, I think your argument is:
“Bla bla bla”
sarcasm
😉
Bla bla bla
“12 million, 530k in IL, is too many for those 200 agents to arrest.”
Bla bla bla
“melodrama”.
…so I think your argument is that there are too many illegals to arrest?
As I covered in points 2 and 3, there’s not funding for this. So, it would seem that Rick Dugan agree with me!
This doesn’t change the fact that the shift from rhetoric to real will begin, see definitions above.
What is so threatening about hearing a different option Rick? Do you panic when someone taps your shoulder at the diner and asks you to pass the ketchup?
------------------------------------
For 2024: ICE’s latest report reveals that of the 271,484 removals carried out last fiscal year, around 32% of those were people with criminal histories. ICE’s enforcement and removal branch also arrested 113,431 immigrants, down from the previous year. Of those, 81,312 were convicted criminals or had pending criminal charges at the time of arrest.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/19…
With Carter I do have lots of good things to say about his character, as POTUS not so much. With Biden, he was and is just a Tool with NO good things about him. I'll be surprised if a ton of Pardons are release before Noon ET on Monday 20-Jan-2025 including himself.
I didn't say the country became hard left, I said he broke that way after the election. Besides, all my friends on the left told me we had universal healthcare after Obamacare. Were they lying?
Massive spending bills on green anything, most radical pro-abortion agenda ever, calling trans the "civil rights issue of the day" = hard left, no matter what he did or didn't on healthcare. (BTW I know this field well and neither party has a goddamn clue.)
"If you are a lib, it will be because he lied about his mental state, sat on the election for a month because “he’s stubborn”, and blew up any chance of dems winning the election."
And that's the only reason? None of it will be a 21% increase in price levels, or 11 million over the open border, or his BBBJTCWSs to Khameini, or Ukraine and Gaza?
"To be clear, Kamala was no one’s first choice."
If she was no one's first choice, why did the party fall in line behind her so quickly? I heard Obama wanted a fast primary. Or was she the choice of the identity politics pimps and the rest of the party was too shit scared to do the right thing? If Biden chose her, that reinforces what I said that he went hard left. Again, if the Dems weren't hard left, why did they choose the most liberal member of the Senate as candidate and most liberal governor as running mate?
"If you’re a right winger, he will be judged unkindly simply for being not a conservative"
Right, like Dem historians aren't declaring Trump tHe WoRSt PreSiDeNT eVar right in the middle of a campaign? For one, anyone, who no matter how left or right, gives that title to Biden or Trump rather than James Buchanan or Andrew Johnson, has so little historical perspective that I wouldn't believe anything they said. For another, I don't think we can historically rank anyone until some decades have elapsed; we're still seeing the impact of their policies.
The American people were just given a choice between 45 and 46 (and his number two), and chose Trump. What does that tell you?
3x as many gotaways under Biden!
https://homeland.house.gov/202…
You don't need to deport those you don't let in, in the first place!
We know Trump has massively overhyped and simplified the immigration issue (except for perhaps the kool-aid drinking MAGA supporters who believe everything Trump says). We also know Trump had Republicans block funding for the border last year so he could campaign on this issue. As things move forward we should be better able to discern the truth from the bullshit.
Dems have lied repeatedly and blatantly on the immigration issue while actively facilitating illegal immigration and coddling them once they get here.
You've got 11 minutes before your punchbowl is taken away. We're not going to stop reminding you of the crime and strained services your policies have brought us.
The price level game cuts both ways. We all know that presidents have relatively little control over prices. Biden didn’t give you expensive eggs any more than trump is going to give you cheap ones.
“ If she was no one's first choice, why did the party fall in line behind her so quickly? “
Same reason we voted for Biden last time, and you said it first: she was the not trump choice.
“Right, like Dem historians aren't declaring Trump tHe WoRSt PreSiDeNT eVar right in the middle of a campaign?”
We already have experience in this department. Remember?
“ Marry your own fucking head of iceberg lettuce bitches” hahahaha ski quote of the year so far.
The flood is going to be all on Trump starting in a few hours. I doubt he will be able to have anywhere near the impact he’s selling, either in the deportations or border hardening departments. People move because they have to or really really want to.
No less of a delicate liberal flower than George Patton said “Fixed fortifications are monuments to man’s stupidity. If mountain ranges and oceans can be overcome, anything made by man can be overcome.”
So, the desperate Latin Americans will keep coming back on the cheap even as we spend billions to deter and remove them.
I think now is the time we normally start saying 80/20 and he’s just bluffing etc.
***Not sure what's your point here. "Left" and "right" are relative to the place and time; it doesn't matter what Biden would be considered in Sweden. Relative to his campaign he pushed a leftist agenda.
The price level game cuts both ways. We all know that presidents have relatively little control over prices. Biden didn’t give you expensive eggs any more than trump is going to give you cheap ones.
***Incorrect. They own spending and have significant though not formal authority over the federal reserve. Biden owns the green pork put through in the American Rescue Plan and "Inflation Reduction Act." Individual commodities might vary but deficit spending equals debt equals inflation. In this case, they also own the supply chain disruptions at the ports that worsened inflation, while Mayor Pete took 2 months off to adopt a kid.
Same reason we voted for Biden last time, and you said it first: she was the not trump choice.
***You had a million Not Trump choices other than Harris. Shapiro, Whitmer, Moore, Newsom. You chose Harris.
We already have experience in this department. Remember?
***What, calling someone the worst president ever? How many historians put together a "serious" paper saying that the other guy is worse than the one who split the country apart or botched Reconstruction, the effects of which we feel today?
And now you're all over the place. You start the thread assuming that this will actually happen, but then switch gears by claiming that your budget was really an acknowledgement that it won't. So which is it?
Like I said man, slow down and think a bit. 200 agents to Chicago is a piss hole in the snow. It's just more showmanship, nothing more, which makes all of your other dire predictions...I almost hesitate to say it, but...rather melodramatic. ;)
Nobody wants their "cheap" labor deported, at least if they have a lick of sense. Unless they're really eager to pay a heck of a lot more for certain labor intensive produce and meat items, which would put some of this stuff out of reach for lower income Americans.
The reality is that Americans just don't want to do these jobs. Sure we could probably raise the wages so high that this natural resistance is overcome, but at what cost?
Heck I'd also have to make a lot of hard decisions about who cuts my own lawn and cleans my house. I'd hardly call myself "rich", but I need all the help I can get right now. 😨
That’s just for starters, probably would have to pay laborers on the construction sites I ran in excess of $30. hourly, dinner in a mid grade restaurant would probably triple, he ain’t gonna be deporting a quarter of what he’s claiming, my guess is he rounds up a bunch of illegals with felony records then just like Bush2 he declares mission accomplished and moves on to some other shiny object that grabs his attention.
I hope but doubt that Trump will do a fucking thing but get rid of them all and let's see what happens. Rather die fast than slowly like we are now.
I know we've exchange thoughts on this in other threads, so I will post this with enough space between words that you have a chance to process it:
Native - born - Americans - are - not - having - enough - kids.
Take all the time you need. I tried to add a bouncing ball, but sadly that feature is not available.
We need them not only for the cheaper labor, but to contribute to overall economic productivity and, of course, to have more babies. Otherwise we'll start to look like Japan or several European countries, with aging populations and endlessly stagnant economies.
Besides, your cultural concerns are way overblown. Their kids end up growing up as Americanized as anyone else and often intermarry with people from other cultural backgrounds. By the next generation, they are completely absorbed, with the second native born generation unable to even speak their grandparents' languages. American truly is an amazing melting pot.
And we need them right there to mine cobalt for our virtue-signaling EVs ;)
Our population's median age is currently 38.6. When that number goes north of 40, things start getting bad in a hurry. Economic productivity tales off and the strain on budgets to support retirees becomes pronounced.
If it takes a steady stream of younger people from other countries to keep that average age down, then we should welcome it. It's not like we don't have large swathes of this country that are still almost uninhabited - there is plenty of room in the Inn.
Unintended consequences are a real thing.
I agree that we need a guest worker program to import who we need, whether they're designing AI chips or picking strawberries. There is a way to do it while not letting criminals and terrorists into the country like Biden did.
And commercial construction workers;
And residential housebuilding workers;
And office/factory cleaners;
And restaurant back kitchen workers;
And road workers (including in MA);
And agricultural farm workers (fruits and vegetables anyone?);
And cattle ranch workers;
And chicken farm workers;
And dairy farm workers;
And meat processing plant workers;
And seafood processing plan workers;
And fishing boat workers...
And that's just what comes immediately to mind. So yes, losing the 5% of our workforce that does the hardest and dirtiest jobs that we have would be devastating.
And an endless variety of domestic workers (cleaners, nannies, yard, handyman)
Florida, Texas & California combined employ 47% of all illegal workers with the largest numbers of Illegal workers employed by the construction industry, next is the hospitality industry, then agriculture. Of those three states Florida employs the most then Texas with California the largest only in the agricultural sector.
In construction alone Florida has 670,000 workers with over 25% of those are undocumented aliens, I chose to speak of the construction industry because I know more about that industry, than any other, having spent my entire working life in that industry, as an employee as a manager/foreman, and as a business owner in four different states, with multiple employees, and I can tell you with certainty that many businesses would fail in that industry, and very large projects all over the country would become idle if Trump actually were able to deport every single undocumented person, just here in Florida, Trump just received approvals for a project The American Dream in nw Miami Dade county for a one hundred seventy five acres including a 16 story indoor ski slope, a 20 slide water park, a 14 screen 3D movie theater, a performing arts center, stores restaurants, a submarine lake, residential condominiums to be developed by The Trump Companies, without undocumented workers that project will never get started, so yep Skibum, there will be a monumental failure of businesses across the board.
Just multiply this by 50 states and god only knows how many projects, plus all of those other business sectors across the United States, also keep in mind that's growth that we need here in this country, if we are ever to get out from under the trillions of dollars of debt, that is threatening to ruin this economy.
Here's a new scenario for you, I'm not going to weigh in about the pardons Trump issued to the folks he snookered in to rioting on his behalf, but when one of those pardoned folk commits a new crime, the shit is going to flow all over again. Tell us how are y'all going to handle it, in light of Tarrio of the Proud boys telling Alex Jones this ain't over ?
Before y'all tell us what Biden did, using that tired old schoolboy refrain "he started it" keep in mind, if Joe Biden jumped off a bridge are you expecting Trump to do the same?
I don't think that every person who voted for Trump did so hoping he would institute mass deportations. Even less would support it if they understood the true cost of doing so. The economy was by far the most important issue identified by the poll numbers.
Most folks that voted for Trump, did so believing that his promise to deport was hyperbole, the folks rooting this shit on, are just talking out of their ass, and they are typical of the folks he snookered into rioting on his behalf.
No normal sane person wants the economy to fail, hell I didn't, and wouldn't, vote for him and I'm rooting for the market to make me richer.
I certainly believe that Trump was elected with a mandate to get control of the damned border. But I don't think that anywhere close to a majority of Trump voters want to read stories about ICE agents doing stuff like going block by block and pulling immigrants from their homes, especially those with U.S. citizen children who rely upon them. Many of those 12+ million immigrants have been here for decades and are active parts of their communities.
I have no problem with deporting the ones who commit crimes and end up incarcerated. But the vast bulk of them don't fall into that category. They overwhelmingly come here to work and raise families.
It's also important to understand that they pay into the social welfare system like anyone else. Part of their rent is used to pay the property taxes that fund local schools. They pay sales taxes like anyone else. Many of them even obtain TINs and pay state and federal income taxes, both because their employers require them to provide a TIN and because they eventually wish to naturalize.
They do not, for the most part pay into social security on under the table jobs and most of them send a lot of money back home and don't spend it here. America succeeded because we are a nation of laws, even the one's that people with money don't like. Personally, you feel you'd have to pay more, so you assume, we all would rather have a bunch of foreigners here instead. Not I. I also notice that you failed to address the added costs of these peope being here. A lof of people who think they are smarter than everyone else only look at the top line; successful people look at the bottom line. This lawyer is more convinced I am right. Thank you.
By the time an illegal gets to you, he already has a legal issue. IME most are floating under the radar and doing all of the things that I mentioned. I say this as someone who has relationships in immigrant communities in MA, CT and here in FL.
It's emotionally convenient for you to believe otherwise. I get it. I too grew up as a child of a working class family in MA. I know all too well the cultural influences at play.
People from other places believe that MA is a liberal bastion of acceptance because they elect gay Dem Congressmen and shrill liberal Senators. But go 20 miles in any direction outside of Beantown and one will find that the MA brand of liberalism doesn't extend to cultural issues. Many folks in MA trace their roots back to someone on the Mayflower (myself included) while others continue to embrace proud Irish and Italian heritages. Spics and pork chops (of which there are many as MA also hosts a lot of Brazilians) are seen as a form of undesirable cultural pollution by all too many, even to this day.
Anyway, I'll leave it there. Because the truth is that you don't really care what kind of damage it causes to expel them, as you already made clear. Or whether this country starts stagnating like Japan or several European countries (which it will) under the weight of an aging population. You just want the spics and pork chops out of your community.
^^No one in Massachusetts uses the term pork chop. Never heard it once in my 60+ years here, until today. To be fair Portuguese cooking does combine a lot of seafood and pork products.
I can only speak to what I know, most of the people who work in the construction industry as labor don’t really work directly for the contractors that are directing the projects, the vast majority work for what is known as payroll companies that are hired by the contractors to provide insurance and pay the taxes. Most of the employees have no direct contact with their employer of record and the contractors that direct their work knows very little about their status. Every pay period the contractors receive an invoice and the paychecks are usually electronically deposited into an employees account minus the legitimate deductions, that ensures the taxes and S. S. Payments are deposited into an escrow account that is paid to the proper agencies and insurance companies for each employee. So that guarantees that S. S. Payments are deposited with the Social Security Administration.
Any remittances are paid by the employees after the required deductions with their paychecks AFTER TAXES so at the very least the social security (FICA) payments are made to the treasury. The Social Security Administration Estimates that they receive about twenty billion dollars annually in unattributable contributions that goes directly into the Social Security Funds I’m sure most of the other major industries operate in a similar fashion negating you belief that ‘they for the most part do not pay ‘ into the system. Under the table monies probably escape this system but like tip income it is a very small portion of the economy and probably negligible amounts.
In other words we needed a stable funding to maintain our business and workforce.
What "crime" have most of these immigrants committed besides sneaking across the border to scrub other peoples' toilets or do other shitty jobs that most Americans don't want?
Btw ski, has it ever occurred to you to ask one of the many clients who you secretly despise what actually drove them to do it? Think about everything they went through just to get here.
First they had to risk their safety getting across the border. Then they migrated to places that are bitter cold for people who grew up in sub-tropical climates - their bodies are not accustomed to handling it. All to work dirty jobs while living in crappy apartments and limping day to day without legal status.
How desperate does one have to be to do all of that? How bad must things have been where they came from that this ends up being such a better life for them? I know that the stories I have heard included hunger, lack of sanitary drinking water and other horrible conditions.
So yes, they violated U.S. immigration laws, which since 1996 has made it virtually impossible for them to get in legally. But how many of us wouldn't do the same in their shoes if we could?
It's not most immigrants that are the problem, but if we don't seal the border and vet them, we don't know who is who. We've caught-and-released people on the terror watch list, in addition to gangsters.
Even if we need legal immigrants, our right to control our borders is not subject to pithy sayings, touching stories, or the approval of multinational organizations (go pound sand, Pope Francis).
The whole mass deportation thing is designed to stir the pot and create a false reality, which is trump’s go to move, something he and SkiDumb have quite in common.
Chaos is Trumps hallmark, he figures that with enough deflection, and litigation , he can get us to forget all of his other promises, like ending the Ukraine war with Russia, getting grocery and other costs down, he knows he hasn't a plan for those, so the only thing they can do is play to his MAGA base, make a lot of noise and keep his grift going.
One day Icey will post my info here? Lmao. You don't have it and I don't care if you do. The PLs here couldn't find where I live and would wet themselves if they had to get out of their car in the neighborhood where my office located. Happy to meet anyone from here, any time, for any reason, even you Icey, who had to actually run away and relocate when I found his information.
Deport and deny entry to anyone not born here to two American citizens.
Illegal immigrants do not qualify for social welfare benefits, including SNAP or housing assistance. To the extent that they reside in "mixed status" households, meaning that they have eligible U.S. citizen children, they can receive prorated assistance, but it doesn't usually amount to anywhere close to what is needed for the whole household.
They come here to work and they take the jobs that others don't want because they have to. But since they come from places where wages are abysmal and food is absurdly expensive on a relative basis, it is still better than what they had. The things that we take for granted, like cheap and abundant food, clean drinking water and hot water for regular showers are not as easily had in many other places.
This includes illegal immigrants in MA, which I know from very personal experience in assisting extended family members with these matters.
The military uses a term called "facts on the ground" to describe their realistic assessment of conditions they see firsthand. The facts on the ground here are that our borders are simply far too broad and porous to prevent a certain inflow of illegal immigrants, who are highly motivated for all of the reasons I discussed.
So the only practical way that we can truly gain control of our borders, and weed out the bad apples in the process, is to open up our legal pathways by a heck of a lot. Then we can much better focus our enforcement resources on tracking down the small % of bad apples who try to circumvent that process for various nefarious reasons.
Make illegally entering the country a nightmare, and they will be crawling over each other to GTFO out of here.
Like many of you, I too voted for Trump. But i guess unlike some of you, I voted for him despite his views on this, not because of them.
We are at a median age of 38.6 and creeping higher every year. When that number goes above 40, as it has in Japan and a number of European countries, economic production stagnates. Japan, the highest at over 48, is already downright fucked and it's only going to get worse for them.
Immigration has been one of our greatest strengths, a big reason why we aren't already experiencing similar declines seen by many other developed nations. We - are - just - not - having - enough - kids. We need young people from somewhere and lots of them.
And to head off any further stupid dismissive comments about how more people will just go back to work or finding ways to encourage people to have more kids, all such efforts in the other aforementioned countries haven't done shit. Women in most developed nations just don't want to spend large chunks of their adult lives raising children anymore.
Seriously now, the sheer level of blind angry ignorance on this issue is monumental. This is not a situation where all opinions are equally valid - it's straight fucking math sprinkled with common sense. Are you really that eager to see American exceptionalism fade away in the next few decades? Then keep rooting for us to choke off our inflows of young immigrants. Dipshits.
I know they're crossing the Darien Gap, getting raped by coyotes en route, starving and dehydrating to death. And that's yet another reason why not dissuading it is horrible. Remain in Mexico cut the flow drastically, that's why when Biden opened up the border, number of crossings doubled in a month.
So we can say, yes, we'll make it easier to come here if you play by the rules and work hard. You won't have to hide in the shadows. And if you truly love and adhere to our values, you may earn the right to become American.
But right now we have lib cities and states saying that if you come illegally, we'll house you, let you go without bail, we'll feed you, we'll give you the VIP treatment. It should be, you come illegally, you have no chance of citizenship, it'll be illegal to employ you, and if you commit a crime, we're going to ship you to Yemen with "FUCK ISLAM" tattooed on your forehead.
There should never be an incentive to break the law.
If I were King Rick, I would give them a path to permanent residency and maybe even citizenship. It would be predicated on them passing vetting and then, for a good chunk of years TBD: (1) staying off the government dole; (2) paying their taxes; and (3) staying out of legal trouble.
In the meantime they would have temporary work authorizations, renewed every one to two years assuming that they continue to meet the conditions noted above. With temporary work authorization comes an assigned SS#, so they can pay taxes, build credit, etc. It's basically what is done now with asylum applicants, minus all the renewal strings I would put on it.
They're already working since they literally have to in order to survive. As I mentioned above, illegals don't qualify for government welfare payments. So we might as well ensure that they are all paying into the system like everyone else, especially social security and medicare taxes, which start at dollar 1, lol.
THEN we could focus out enforcement efforts on those who choose not to enter this pathway, likely because they would not pass initial vetting, as well as those who fail to meet the conditions required to renew work authorization. I'm talking about hunting the fucks down and getting them out quickly. This would be quite possible once our immigration agents and courts are no longer jammed with cases involving people who are just trying to work and eat.
And commercial construction workers;
And residential housebuilding workers;
And office/factory cleaners;
And restaurant back kitchen workers;
And road workers (including in MA);
And agricultural farm workers (fruits and vegetables anyone?);
And cattle ranch workers;
And chicken farm workers;
And dairy farm workers;
And meat processing plant workers;
And seafood processing plan workers;
And fishing boat workers...
And that's just what comes immediately to mind. So yes, losing the 5% of our workforce that does the hardest and dirtiest jobs that we have would be devastating.
How many times will I need to copy and paste that for you to process it?
Did you also miss the fact that our population is aging you slow fuck? Our immigration system doesn't allow for large numbers of legal full time low skill laborers, which is why we have 12 million illegal immigrants in the first place. So where else are we going to keep getting the labor supply to support an increasing % of retirees and other elderly types, both from a financial contribution standpoint and in more hands on support?
You semi-literate xenophobic myopic fucks really need to educate yourselves more before you say such stupid things. Maybe start by Googling information about how the Japanese economy has been doing for the last 20 years. They have no answer to institutionalized aging because, like a few of you on this board, a solid % of their population is highly resistant to immigration. Like too many of you, they don't give a shit what the long-term ramifications are so long as they don't have immigrants infecting their cultural purity.
We hand out free health insurance and SNAP benefits like candy now. WIC and housing assistance too if there's a baby involved. So our uneducated young people can get by working jobs that are just enough to pay their meager rents, like supermarket and gas station gigs. In rural areas with property handed down to them, a lot of young folks barely have to work at all.
So we have a generation of young people who would much rather work $15 per hour gas station jobs than dig a ditch in the hot sun on a highway for twice that. The dirtiest and hardest jobs are generally done by people who have to do them because they can't get government handouts, i.e. illegal immigrants.
But even assuming that we wiped out the welfare system that makes this absurd shit possible, which will never happen since there is zero political will for that in either political party, we STILL wouldn't have nearly enough young people to fill all of these jobs.
But our kids have not been raised like that. Child labor and abuse laws are part of it, but so too are cultural changes and an expanding welfare system. even poor kids nowadays grow up much softer than their parents did.
So again, we have to deal with facts on the ground, not with what we wish would happen.
Illegal immigrants do not qualify for social welfare benefits, including SNAP or housing assistance. To the extent that they reside in "mixed status" households, meaning that they have eligible U.S. citizen children, they can receive prorated assistance, but it doesn't usually amount to anywhere close to what is needed for the whole household.
Also: (1) they make contributions to their local economies via indirect property tax support (through rent paid to landlords), sales taxes and (for some) state income taxes.
Their overall contribution to the economic prosperity of the country, on the whole, far outweighs their costs. We would be sorely fucked without them here doing all of those jobs that I mentioned - which they actually do btw. I speak from ample firsthand knowledge.
I don't know what half ass website you get your intel from, but it's half baked crap.
At the same time, most of those anti abortion/pro gun rights individuals, for the most part aren’t holistically pro-life. These are people who by and large want to wipe out the middle east, parts of southeast asia and china. Thats more than half the world…
Its completely laughable anytime you hear someone talking about how pro life or pro human rights they are, when abortion and gun rights are really only a very minor part of what it should mean to be pro life
https://www.npr.org/sections/h…
https://www.msn.com/en-us/mone…
https://www.foxnews.com/politi…
https://www.newsweek.com/illeg…
https://www.thecentersquare.co…
https://nypost.com/2024/08/29/…
You’re a moron and a child
For starters, it potentially underestimates contributions to sales taxes, property taxes and gas taxes because there is no way to reliably measure those. Given how active immigrants are in the workforce, including running a number of small businesses (yard maintenance, house cleaning, etc.), those numbers seem very low. They also threw in the kitchen sink on the cost side, including the cost of an immigration system that would need to exist anyway.
But even worse, to make that monkey math work, they also had to include the investments we make in the legal U.S. citizen children, investments we make in ALL children nationwide. We do this because we believe that these investments result in positive economic returns in the future in terms of a healthier and better educated workforce. Those expenses never should have been included in the analysis, but of course without them this analysis wouldn't have worked.
Finally, the report doesn't factor in the costs to all of us of losing our immigrant workforce. Economic production in several key industries would slow down. Our food would become much more expensive, as would many of the other items we use regularly. Economic growth would become sluggish due to a dire labor shortage, limiting our future growth opportunities and hurting us all in the process.
Like I said, grade school math for angry monkeys.
Gee whiz it's almost as if we deported all those who cheated the entire system and real legal immigrants, and found out that we actually did need them after a few years, that no one would ever want to come here again. Try getting rid of all the flotsam and jetsom called "migrants" and if it doesn't work out after a few years, then let them back in. The world isn;t getting better and their will always be poor people for Democrats to use, abuse and lie to.
And commercial construction workers;
And residential housebuilding workers;
And office/factory cleaners;
And restaurant back kitchen workers;
And road workers (including in MA);
And agricultural farm workers (fruits and vegetables anyone?);
And cattle ranch workers;
And chicken farm workers;
And dairy farm workers;
And meat processing plant workers;
And seafood processing plan workers;
And fishing boat workers;
Countless other domestic maintenance and are roles; and
Likely too many others that I am missing...
Not American kids, for all the reasons we already discussed. Are there robots waiting in the wings to do all these things that we haven't heard about? It would be devastating to our economy.
Trump moves to prepare Guantanamo Bay for 30,000 'criminal illegal aliens'
https://www.foxnews.com/politi…
Needless to say, I am a fan of this policy.
Let's see where we are in 2026. The con will be more exposed when the crime and inflation rates have barely moved, while the Trump family's Bitcoin Billions have surged.
Sorry, you're done gaslighting us about the border situation and your intentions. You brought this upon yourselves.
https://tuscl.net/discussion/8…
https://www.the-sun.com/news/1…
Adios Motherfucker,