Given the LE heat this place is getting, how would you react if you were in the club or VIP when the cops came in. I guess you'd have enough advanced warning to get out of the VIP area. Then you'd be all clear.
I've been through 2 raids. 1 at the Memphis Platinum Plus and the other at Follies. In both cases I was just sitting at the time. The cops told every one to stay put until they told you otherwise. In both cases they let the customers leave after securing the dancers and customers that they wanted.
Agree with both. Sit quietly and do as you’re told as long as you are part of the crowd. If you are singled out ask if you are being detained. If you are asked questions decline to answer until you have spoken to a lawyer. Do not try to talk your way out of it. ALWAYS treat the officers with respect and courtesy. NEVER raise your hand or voice to them. In all likelihood you will be allowed to leave, so go home and be grateful.
I only remember seeing the names and photos of dancers and managers owners in the press after these raids. So I’d follow what Vorga said. Then I’d leave as soon as I could.
I agree with mogul1985 regarding the scanned IDs. And if the press were then able to gain access to the IDs, they could publish the names, ages and location of the customers as part of covering the story. Like, "At the time of the raid by local police, club security records show there were xx customers in the club ranging in age from xx to xx and traveled to the club from as far away as xxx. The customers were, John Doe, 45, of xxx, etc.
I wouldn't try to escape because most likely there are a couple of cops outside keepin watch.
I'd like more advice from a seasoned civil liberties attorney. Like those guys on YouTube who say you should roll up your car window and refuse to get out of the car when the cops pull you over ... or something, I don't exactly know in which circumstances you are, or are not, supposed to do that. I'd like to hear more. Just shooting the breeze and talking out of my ass, it seems to me like this.
If the police arrive to "raid" the place there must be a reason. They must have "warranted" their searches and seizures, either through a document signed by a judge (actually: "neutral and detached magistrate") or through one of the allowed exceptions from case-law etc.. So, in specific, they must believe (reasonably) that there is crime going on.
What crime? If it's suspicion of drugs being distributed, sold, used, then, why must customers be detained? Well, obviously, to search them for illegal drugs. If it's suspicion of something else, why must customers be detained? Because ... blankety blank again. It depends on what crime(s) they're suspecting. The crime must be specific and some evidence must be articulated. Can't be just "he looked suspicious." It has to be, "he looked like he was selling drugs" (specific crime) "because he was trying to hide plastic baggies of a grass-type substance" (specific evidence). More likely it won't be what they saw on the night; the evidence will be, "we have reason to believe that this goes on in that location."
Further, I'm wondering whether it's cricket for them to automatically suspect EVERY person in the premises. Can they just have a warranted suspicion that, f.e., if you're within 400 yards of a school, you're a child molester? No, of course not. Not sure where the Constitutional Criminal Procedure law draws the line on raiding nightclubs etc.. Is everyone in the place under suspicion, and is that suspicion reasonable?
Book guy - So I am not a seasoned civil liberties attorney but I am a lapsed criminal defense attorney. You have good points, but if you are ever in this situation raise them with your attorney - not with the officers conducting the raid. They are not there to argue or explain, they are doing a job. Your best chance of staying out of trouble is to let them do it. If you are detained, respectfully ask for a lawyer and let them do the talking.
I can’t address the release of scanned id information to the press, not my field. I can say that if the info is lawfully seized pursuant to warrant it will be admissible as evidence in a subsequent proceeding. But if things ever got that far hopefully you have competent counsel (not a random guy on TUSCL).
How would I handle a raid? Blow my load quickly, grab a beer and watch the show. Their search warrant can cover the premises, staff and ownership, but not random customers. Searching people who are lawfully present, because someone might be committing a crime isn't constitutional. The most they can do is a pat/frisk for weapons to ensure their safety, so you're more likely to get a more detailed search if you have a dildo in your pocket, as opposed to an 8-ball in folded paper. Search laws here are more restrictive than pretty much anywhere. Ex: Stopped for o.u.i.l. blow a .24, get arrested. They search your console and find an ounce of crack. The criminal complaint would end up nol prosequi because the evidence would be inadmissible. Why? In Massachusetts the only lawful search incident to an arrest is confined to areas where evidence related to the crime could be found. Court's have already ruled that the idea you're looking for alcohol in a console is ridiculous.
The only time I ever came close to be in a club that was raided, I was leaving as the police were coming in, one cop told me to stop as I got into my car, so I stopped, a few minutes passed, then two other cops came over to where I was parked, told me to leave, so I left.
This was what I was wondering -- "Searching people who are lawfully present, because someone might be committing a crime isn't constitutional." -- @skibum. Can I get a bit more on that? Because it seems to me, to the contrary, that, if the police have a reliable tip, which they believe in, a tip which says that illegal drugs are regularly sold to customers at Prancing Pinkie, they could then enter Prancing Pinkie with a warrant and search every customer inside the club, on reasonable suspicion that they expect to find illegal drugs. But you're saying, no they can't? Furthermore, it seems to me, that, if the police have a tip that prostitution is going on in there, why can't they search every person to see who has a dick? :P
^ Massachusetts is very strict and as long as a place is lawfully operating and you are lawfully there, they must have specific facts to search individuals, beyond a pat and frisk. How can they have a reasonable suspicion that every person in a locale is involved in criminal activity in a place to which the public has access? That's how they do it in totalitarian societies. Most search warrants are based on tips from informants who are usually criminals themselves. Example: After 6 mos. of surveillance D.E.A., Mass. State Police and town police, acting on tips and surveillance, execute a search warrant (10 cars, 18 cops) on my client's residence. 19 bags of .....weed, not cocaine. 19 bags all 1/4 ounce. $760.00 worth of weed retail lol. D.E.A. disappears, State Police disappear, town police tell ada they don't want to come to court. Case dismissed.
So that's a Mass. answer. What about nationally? Con-Crim-Pro caselaw does limit searches. But I think some US Fed Circuits would be OK with police searching everyone in a place, on strength of a reliable tip that says the whole place is a drugs market. If f.e. the 5th heard the case as first impression they'd uphold that general search, I think. Or maybe it's already been heard? Not familiar.
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I wouldn't try to escape because most likely there are a couple of cops outside keepin watch.
If the police arrive to "raid" the place there must be a reason. They must have "warranted" their searches and seizures, either through a document signed by a judge (actually: "neutral and detached magistrate") or through one of the allowed exceptions from case-law etc.. So, in specific, they must believe (reasonably) that there is crime going on.
What crime? If it's suspicion of drugs being distributed, sold, used, then, why must customers be detained? Well, obviously, to search them for illegal drugs. If it's suspicion of something else, why must customers be detained? Because ... blankety blank again. It depends on what crime(s) they're suspecting. The crime must be specific and some evidence must be articulated. Can't be just "he looked suspicious." It has to be, "he looked like he was selling drugs" (specific crime) "because he was trying to hide plastic baggies of a grass-type substance" (specific evidence). More likely it won't be what they saw on the night; the evidence will be, "we have reason to believe that this goes on in that location."
Further, I'm wondering whether it's cricket for them to automatically suspect EVERY person in the premises. Can they just have a warranted suspicion that, f.e., if you're within 400 yards of a school, you're a child molester? No, of course not. Not sure where the Constitutional Criminal Procedure law draws the line on raiding nightclubs etc.. Is everyone in the place under suspicion, and is that suspicion reasonable?
Just some thoughts?
I can’t address the release of scanned id information to the press, not my field. I can say that if the info is lawfully seized pursuant to warrant it will be admissible as evidence in a subsequent proceeding. But if things ever got that far hopefully you have competent counsel (not a random guy on TUSCL).
Their search warrant can cover the premises, staff and ownership, but not random customers. Searching people who are lawfully present, because someone might be committing a crime isn't constitutional. The most they can do is a pat/frisk for weapons to ensure their safety, so you're more likely to get a more detailed search if you have a dildo in your pocket, as opposed to an 8-ball in folded paper.
Search laws here are more restrictive than pretty much anywhere. Ex: Stopped for o.u.i.l. blow a .24, get arrested. They search your console and find an ounce of crack. The criminal complaint would end up nol prosequi because the evidence would be inadmissible. Why? In Massachusetts the only lawful search incident to an arrest is confined to areas where evidence related to the crime could be found. Court's have already ruled that the idea you're looking for alcohol in a console is ridiculous.
Example: After 6 mos. of surveillance D.E.A., Mass. State Police and town police, acting on tips and surveillance, execute a search warrant (10 cars, 18 cops) on my client's residence. 19 bags of .....weed, not cocaine. 19 bags all 1/4 ounce. $760.00 worth of weed retail lol. D.E.A. disappears, State Police disappear, town police tell ada they don't want to come to court. Case dismissed.