Gabbard: Ukraine conflict avoidable if U.S. had recognized Russia NATO concerns

2/25/2022 12:39:51 AM

www.foxnews.com

She's right. The US would never have tolerated any North or Central American countries joining the Warsaw Pact. We almost went nuclear WW III when the Soviets put missiles in Cuba in 1962. Why should we expect the Russians to tolerate Ukraine in NATO?

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san_jose_guy•3 yrs ago

Russia has some legtitimate security concerns and the US remains pressing for a diplomatic solution.

But at this point talk about who is in our out of NATO is just a red herring.

Putin is making it so that it is just like Ukraine is in NATO, even when it is not.

Fox news is total bullshit.

SJG

Tetradon•3 yrs ago

Not sure about this. A man who believes the fall of the USSR was a tragedy and has seized territory as able for a while.

We need to sanction Russia six ways from Sunday, including cutting them off from SWIFT.

bkkruined•3 yrs ago

The only reason Ukraine wanted to join NATO was to prevent Russia for invading.

The easiest way for Russia to prevent them from joining was not invade.

san_jose_guy•3 yrs ago

^^^ Not sure what you are saying. Putin thinks Russia was better under the Tsars. He does not like Lenin or revolution. But he likes Stalin.

What Yeltsin said was that he left the wrong guy in charge.

I don't think Putin will last much longer. Not with the sanctions and with body bags coming home.

SJG

Tetradon•3 yrs ago

^ I'm saying Putin's got major territorial ambitions, including the former USSR.

He wants to be that tsar.

Icee Loco (asshole)•3 yrs ago

Ukraine had to follow the Minsk Agreement that was all that was needed.... they chose war instead.

Biden is only causing problems because he wants yhe EU to buy US natural gas instead of Russian

Icee Loco (asshole)•3 yrs ago

I support the Russians.

Call.Me.Ishmael•3 yrs ago

^^^ Nah, you don't. This is just you seeking out more attention and drama.

twentyfive•3 yrs ago

Just bullshit the person that owns the responsibility for this adventure is Vladimir Putin, no real contributing cause, the Russian President is a war criminal it’s as clear as daylight.

doctorevil•3 yrs ago

"the person that owns the responsibility for this adventure is Vladimir Putin." Agree.

"no real contributing cause." Lots of contributing causes. Why wouldn't NATO just say Ukraine wouldn't join NATO? They don't have anything to contribute anyway. Refusing to say this was just like sticking a finger in Putin's eye. Another, contributing cause: the projection of feckless incompetence by Biden, especially with the debacle in Afghanistan. Another example: stating up front he would never put troops on the ground in Ukraine. Now, I'm glad he wouldn't, but why would you ever signal to your enemy what cards you are holding?

boomer79•3 yrs ago

We have to stop Putin. He’s been a serious problem for 10 years now since he was meddling in Syria. He will not stop until we stop him. Now is a good time. We have a stable government we can back who wants our help.

farmerguy•3 yrs ago

Tulsi is not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

TweetSee new TweetsConversationMarco Rubio@marcorubioSeen this argument below in various places & it’s simply not true

A pledge that #Ukraine would never join NATO was not Putin’s only demand

As recently as last week he once again demanded NATO leave every country that joined after 1997 including Bulgaria, Romania & 12 othersQuote TweetTulsi Gabbard 🌺@TulsiGabbard · 23hThis war and suffering could have easily been avoided if Biden Admin/NATO had simply acknowledged Russia’s legitimate security concerns regarding Ukraine’s becoming a member of NATO, which would mean US/NATO forces right on Russia’s border

farmerguy•3 yrs ago

twitter.com

misterorange•3 yrs ago

NATO is outdated and mostly symbolic in today's world. Otherwise, how could any NATO member be so dependent on Russia for their energy needs? It's a joke.

boomer79•3 yrs ago

Russia has never been endangered by the U.S. they want their neighbors to feel threatened by them and to be forcibly held on their sphere of influence rather than brought in by economic and diplomatic ties.

There goal has been the weakening of western institutions. Their misinformation campaigns have damaged us and tour allies because we doubt the strategic institutions that keep us safe and prosperous. Some prefer a combination of isolationism and nationalism which is extremely dangerous.

I wonder which nation will be next if he’s not stopped. It makes me think the Sudatenland, then Austria, then Czechoslovakia, then Poland, and finally France. Thugs escalate, and we’ve excused or ignored his early aggressions.

misterorange•3 yrs ago

I'm 1/2 Polish and grew up in a very Polish community. I can tell you those Polacks fuckin HATE Russia. They would fight to the last man standing to defend their country. Remember a few years ago they killed their own President in a plane crash because they thought the Russians were fucking with them about weather reports to make them late for a ceremony.

boomer79•3 yrs ago

Poland suffered tremendously under authoritarian thugs. They endured Hitler and Stalin. They were forced behind the iron curtain. They have a strong military and I would imagine are quite committed to their independence.

Icee Loco (asshole)•3 yrs ago

NATO promised Russia jn the early 1990s it wouldn't expand into Eastern Europe. Putins demands are fair.

Icee Loco (asshole)•3 yrs ago

He's still cleaning up yeltsins mess

farmerguy•3 yrs ago

Show me the signed treaty stating NATO would not expand. Hint: it does not exist.

Gorbachev himself said there was no such agreement.

www.brookings.edu

Icee Loco (asshole)•3 yrs ago

It was a bargaining tool with Gorbachev but him being a traitor he didn't care

mark94•3 yrs ago

Remember about 2 years ago when Trump was impeached for asking Zelensky to investigate Hunter Biden’s corruption. Rather than investigate, he hung Trump out to dry by withholding information that would implicate the Biden’s and clear Trump.

How’s that working out ?

misterorange•3 yrs ago

^^ Exactly.

CJKent_band•3 yrs ago

The undeniable reality is that:

America’s manufactured Wars usually create a shortage in the supply of “commodities” for the war efforts which results in higher prices and higher revenues.

Remember there is always an economic motive underlying USA made-up conflicts, even if the stated aim of the war is presented to the public as something more noble.

The 1%, the Robber Barons in the USA and their criminal accomplices all over the world, are constantly clamming that they are “protecting our strategic interests abroad” and constantly create “conflicts/wars” that ultimately serve to generate and protect the large amount of money and assets of wealthy American Criminals and their accomplices all over the world.

“It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few.”

~ Greta Thunberg, 2019

crosscheck•3 yrs ago

I can’t understand how anyone was surprised by any of this. Putin has made it clear that he views Ukraine and other former Soviet Republics the same way that Carmine Lupertazzi in The Sopranos viewed Jersey as a glorified crew, not a real family. Putin views these as not real countries. He’s explicitly said it and for a long time. One thing about many authoritarian countries is that they don’t play games with their long term intentions, they mean what they say. When Putin says Ukraine is not a real country and an integral part of Russia he is telling you what he really believes. When China says that Taiwan is an integral part of China and makes their associated threats, believe them.

gammanu95•3 yrs ago

Bkk wrong again. Ukraine had not joined NATO, and Russia invaded anyway.

Putin also said that "anyone who did not miss the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it back has no brain." He does not want a new Soviet Union, he wants a new Russian Empire. He has nothing to fear from the west if he were a just and honest leader. He wants colonial satellites to ezploit and use as buffers/cannon fodder against any country seeking to export freely elected governments which would deprive him and gis cronies of the riches they are currently stealing from their own economies.

gammanu95•3 yrs ago

Orange is correct that Germany's decision to become dependant on Russia for its fossil fuels did more damage to NATO than a thousand Trumps demanding they pay their share of treaty obligations.

Of course, leftist tools and the corrupt media mob will never admit that.

rickdugan•3 yrs ago

This is a bogus narrative. Ukraine has been begging to join NATO for 14 years, but they were rebuffed precisely to avoid agitating Russia. Why is it suddenly such a burning issue right at this moment?

Also Putin made ridiculous demands about rolling back NATO membership for several other countries that he knew would never happen even if he got his reassurance re: Ukraine.

Nah, this is what he always wanted, but he needed conditions to be right. Over the last 15 years he has been modernizing Russia's military while fostering increased European dependence on Russian natural gas. Now, with his military ready and Europe docile, all he needed was a weak U.S. Administration to make it work.

Boy did he luck out with the Biden Administration, which I'm sure the Afghanistan debacle confirmed. We declined to send serious military weaponry to bolster Ukraine's defenses and are even now unwilling to impose sanctions that would actually cripple Russia - an full oil/gas embargo and denying them access to the SWIFT global banking network. Instead Biden is sniping on TV with cranky old man hyperbole while doing little more in reality than nibbling on the edges with these "sanctions."

twentyfive•3 yrs ago

^ It’s not up to Biden to be able to kick the Russians out of the Swift system and I don’t disagree with you that Putin lucked out but not just Biden but the last three administrations have badly misplayed this shit with Russia, that actually goes back to Obama not acting on the Syrian use of chemical weapons and continuing with Trump refusing to acknowledge his own intelligence agencies, now with regard to the Swift sanctions unfortunately the rest of NATO has to get on board, the Germans need to step up as the last time this wide a conflict happened in Europe it was they who were the aggressors, but being realistic this should wake up the members of NATO because they are the ones in harms way not us, they absolutely need to step up and accept some of the pain why should we provide 73% of their defense, that’s the basic question.

rickdugan•3 yrs ago

^ Actually, the U.S. has the heft to unilaterally force the issue with SWIFT, as it did with Iran during the Trump Administration. But Biden doesn't want to piss off our European allies who are reliant upon Russian fuel and who otherwise do billions of dollars of business with Russia.

Putin didn't pull this shit during the Trump years precisely because Trump wouldn't have cared about Europe's delicate sensitivities, but instead would have bullied and shamed them into accepting real sanctions. There's a reason he annexed Crimea during the Obama years yet waited 'till now to go further.

I do agree that other NATO countries need to tow the line more, but here we are.

Icee Loco (asshole)•3 yrs ago

Its in the media coz biden wants the European union to buy American natural gas instead of Russian and thinks enough sanctions against Russia can do it

misterorange•3 yrs ago

^ @25

Don't necessarily disagree with you, except I find it difficult to compare this Bozo we have now to any previous administration. When it comes to feckless idiocy, he's in a class all by himself. When you say "the rest" of NATO has to get on board, consider the fact that WE are still buying 22 million barrels of oil per month from RUSSIA, even as this whole Ukraine thing is unfolding. Only about 8% of our usage, but it's not insignificant. In terms of leadership we're in no position to question Germany when our own house is not in order.

twentyfive•3 yrs ago

I'm not stating my preferences I'm just pointing out the facts as I see them, we shouldn't be buying oil from anyone, Biden fucked that pooch big time, and as far as questioning Germany, they have one of the wealthiest economies in Europe, why the fuck don't they pay their own way, I think as long as it's American boys in harms, way we have every right to question any one of these countries.

misterorange•3 yrs ago

^ Right. I was referring to sourcing energy. As far as NATO defense spending, that's something else.

CJKent_band•3 yrs ago

“In terms of leadership we're in no position to question Germany (Poland, Russia, France, or any country) when our own house is not in order.”

~ misterorange✪✔ 02-25-2022

~ “I get my news from TUSCL”

~ Joined Sep, 2015

/photo.php

mark94•3 yrs ago

2014 OBAMA/BIDEN: Russia invades Ukraine

2017: Trump

2018: Trump

2019: Trump

2020: Trump

2022 BIDEN: Russia invades Ukraine

Coincidence ?

Tetradon•3 yrs ago

Gabbard's statement sounds like she's telling a battered wife, "you made your husband punch you!"

We convinced Ukraine to give up their nukes in 94 by assuring them this kind of thing wouldn't happened.

This invasion is a great argument for nuclear deterrence.

mark94•3 yrs ago

From the NY Post

Trump — noting that Putin seized land from Georgia when George W. Bush was president and seized the Crimean peninsula when Barack Obama was president — warned Putin against a land grab on his watch.

“If you move against Ukraine while I’m president,” Trump told the Russian leader, “I will hit Moscow.” Putin scoffed, “No way,” leading Trump to say, “All those beautiful golden turrets will be blown up.”

During that same visit, Trump reportedly told Xi that any military move against Taiwan would be met with an attack on Beijing. Xi, like Putin, is said to have been stunned.

rattdog•3 yrs ago

two theories here: