Am I dead in the water, or not?

What was the stupid thing that you did?

Yes, it's over, Clubber, just like the previous times you've asked here about it. It sounds as though whatever you're still pining to rekindle she considers long over and done with. She has had chances to let you know otherwise and has chosen not to, so I don't see what more you expect from her. Perhaps her sense of your unwillingness to let go makes her colder towards you. As I recall, you said she's no longer stripping, so that's to be expected.

However, why say the past never happened? Just because ex-lovers or ex-ATFs choose to move on doesn't mean we're denied the memory. That's a condition of existence we all live with. We pine for a while, then we get on with making new memories.

lopaw,

When she changed clubs, and moved, I was unable to see her weekly, or just meet for lunch and such. It was not a situation I enjoyed, so I just broke it off with her. I am quite sure this hurt her, but not for the reason you might suspect. There is a LARGE age difference, and she often asked for my advice and help. I believe I was a father figure to her, and by breaking it off, she lost much more that I. AS I said, stupid, and also selfish.

chandler,

I will agree the relationship we had, as it was, is over, but she is not and has never been "cold" towards me. The reasons are more then just my being stupid. Geography plays a big part in it as well as my retirement. As far as her dancing, I believe she is, but that really is of no concern to me, other than I hope she has moved on. As I said, we still see each other, but not as regularly and not without others we both know around, ergo, the desire to have a little time with just her so we could talk about things others do not know about, and can't know about.

Clubber, from your description it simply sounds as though you mistook the stripper/customer relationship you had for something more. It's a common misunderstanding, where the customer comes to believe the business part is incidental and is completely transcended by the "something more" part. Now that you're no longer her customer, she doesn't share your view of what existed between the two of you (nor of how much she lost), or your desire to resume with it, in whatever form. I don't think it's anything you could have acted differently to avoid, short of traveling to her new club weekly to continue being her customer.

Hi clubber,

My 2 cent opinion is that she got really pissed off at you after being hurt, like I believe most people would have been under the circumstances.

Or, chandler could be right? Is that somewhat possible? I don't think so, but then I don't really know you or her. And, normally when a customer says he has a special relationship with a stripper my knee jerk thinking is---Yes, special in that you pay her money and in return she gives you a great experience. But, yes there are exceptions and hopefully you would be able at some point to tell the difference between SS and something real. BTW, in a real relationship there may be SS even though the woman wasn't and isn't a stripper by occupation.

Good luck, but it sounds over! A short letter to her might help you? Just a know nothing suggestion!

pardon my cliche, but sounds like too much water has passed over the dam. Move on.

I have to agree with Chandler on this one. Never forget that its a JOB for her and an out of control(sometimes) fantasy for us. I spend all day going out of my way for customers, but in view of what really matters in my life in the long run wouldn't give some of them a second thought. Its really the same in any profession, the problem is there is "WAY" more emotion when it comes to this hobby!!!!!!!!!

clubber: Strippers exist to be fucked. For money. Not to develop friendships or relationships with.

chandler,

First, let me say I met her in a club, but I was really never her customer. She danced for me one time, being as how she is Asian (my favorite), but after that and we talked and found that we had common friends outside the SC environment, I would only visit the club to talk with her. We would also meet OTC, but it was never sexual. Problem is, you and others thing I was a customer, but I wasn't, other than the very first time I saw her. I didn't even buy her drinks ITC, as she doesn't drink. It is rather impossible for me NOT to see her now, as we still have common friends.

Oh well, just some ramblings from me, I guess.

Did you pay her after the one time? If so, then you were her customer. The sexual part has very little to do with it.

jablake,

Well, yes, that first time. After she danced, we were sitting and talking and discovered our mutual friends OTC. From that moment on, there was no money given to her. As time went on, we did EXCHANGE gifts for Christmas, birthdays and such, just as many friends would do. We did things together and she often asked my advice, ergo, the father figure thing, I believe. And I am not talking just day to day things, rather serious life issues, which I will not get into. So yes, I met her as her customer, but that ended just as soon as it started.

Hi clubber,

If you had stopped paying her for any length of time, then it doesn't seem like you were really her customer anymore. So all the stereotypes go out the window, imo.

I've been kicked to the curb as a customer before, but sometimes it was the dancer who wanted to and did stay in touch. Typical dancer love junkie mentality---just not enough concern about the important things in life. Namely, money and more money. :)

My best guess is that you really hurt her and she probably cut all ties to you in her mind way back when and the door really sounds slammed shut. However, you know the old saying NO pain No gain. And, sometimes you need to ignore the smart advice and just follow your emotions--it does work some tiny percentage of the time.

clubber - She was just an ATF! I feel for ya' buddy, but like others have said - move on - find another ATF to take her place. No committment. She probably could care less about how you feel anyway.

Uncles Bones asks.... If you were never her customer, why is she labeled your ATF? If you have met OTC, but not for sexual favors, then for what purpose? You said, "she often asked my advice, ergo, the father figure thing, I believe." - - - Do you really want to be her FATHER FIGURE? What do you expect out of this type of relationship/friendship?

Well, it seems none of you, except maybe jablake, can grasp that we quickly ended the dancer/customer relationship and became friends. We still see each other, but not alone, any longer. THAT is what I would like to do at least ONCE, as I stated, in the original post. Funny how these things get so convoluted over time.

BONES7599,

I forgot to mention that I saw you visited some clubs in Dayton. I can't think of any in the Dayton area I missed back when I used to go up there a lot. I'm sure many have changed, but was fun to read a couple of recent reviews of clubs I visited some time ago.

Bobbyl states: "Strippers exist to be fucked. For money. Not to develop friendships or relationships with."

We need to have that posted on a well lit sign in the entry way of every strip club in the USA. It would make things much more honest between patrons and dancers, plus help some of the girls pick up extra money w/o all the fake "we are entertainers only" crap

Interesting case: older patron meets young asian dancer, they dance once, cash is paid only at the initial meeting, patron then visits her at club various times to only talk and no money is paid from that point on, also does OTC things with her (none sexual) where over months or years discuss important "life issues" and except for a gift here and there on holidays or birthdays etc still no money is paid. She moves away and he doesn't bother to go out of his way to meet her for lunch etc so now (for whatever reason) she has no desire to meet with him alone, only in the context of 3rd parties, family, or commmon friends - where they are otherwise good friends?

This is not a simple case: sounds like some kind of platonic variation of two people of very different ages becoming "soul mates" of sorts, and there could be asian-specific cultural issues intertwined with it all.

What I don't get is why they couldn't have (at least) talked over the phone at various times about the "important life issues" when she moved away

TEST POST.

It doesn't sound like a customer relationship at all really. But, as I said even if there was a long time business relationship once the money stops flowing the ballgame changes especially where the relationship continues for years after the money stops.

TEST POST.

David9999,

Agreed, for the most part. She moved "away" in the context that I couldn't visit with her easily, due to the fact I would have no reason to be in the area she moved. It wasn't hundreds of miles, rather more like 50 or so, but not where I could visit in my day to day activity of working. One must remember that like many SC customers, I am married and meeting with a dancer, no matter the reason, wouldn't be a good thing. Also, there are no cultural issues, rather generational ones, if any. I had one friend, my best SC buddy, that knew about us and has met her. We've discussed this and he, like many say to get over it, but I can't seem to shake it. Were it not for the meetings with others, now, I could and was pretty much over it, but then I started seeing her again, and well, my problem.

You know, David9999, I think you gave me an idea, indirectly. When we do see each other, even though infrequently, there are moments when we are alone. Like this Thanksgiving, we were playing pool and/or a video game, and somewhat alone at times. I think I will just apologize quickly for having somewhat abandoning her for at that time. Likely a bad idea, but I am good at coming up with somewhat bad ideas, at times.

Sounds like a good idea to me, which means it is definitely a bad idea. :)

Clubber, I can grasp not being a customer. It's just that you call her your ATF, which to me means a kind of stripper/customer relationship. It wasn't until after some of us opined along those lines that you added the part about not being her customer, so it's a little unwarranted, IMHO, for you to say we can't grasp it. Furthermore, we may grasp it perfectly but not agree that your account sounds like one of friends who, oh by the way, just happened to meet at the place where she stripped.

Even after you've stopped buying dances, etc., just the fact that you come into her club and hang out with a stripper can color her characterization. Remove the club connection between you, and she may no longer feel that there's no reason the OTC side of your relationship shouldn't continue. (Pardon the triple negative.) The club environment gives a young girl an excuse to be emotionally intimate with a much older man (or other sets of opposites) in a way that can be hard to sustain or reconcile absent of that framework.

You keep saying that you're the one who broke it off with her, however she's the one who moved away and didn't return your calls, so you can understand how it sounds like you're kidding yourself a bit not to see that she has broken it off with you. Regardless, you seem to believe that all these years you've continued to see each other amongst company, you've both been longing for the other to make the first move. Sounds too much like a romance novel to me, but I guess there's one way to find out. Ask her.

David9999 - You and I were hatched from the same eggshell!!! My sentiments exactly!! Nevada is making a tax killing on their county approved brothels! Why don't the other states see that??