Political polarization
docsavage
Indiana
Recent polls show that 90% of Democrats approve of Biden and 90% of Republicans disapprove of Biden. This is not the historical norm for presidents. It used to be about a third of the members of the opposition party would approve of the president. For example, about a third of Democrats liked Eisenhower and a third of Republicans liked Kennedy in polls. There seems to be much more political polarization now. You can also see this by going back and looking at the Kennedy-Nixon debates and then comparing that to the first Trump-Biden debate. There was a much higher level of hostility between Trump and Biden.
This may have something to do with the radicalization of both parties, with the Republicans taken over by the far right and the Democrats by the far left. On the important issues of the day like abortion or our response to Covid each side seems to be not open to compromise. This radicalization of American politics is not a good thing. You saw something like this in the early nineteen thirties in Germany where the political alternatives were far right Nazis and far left Communists and political moderates were a shrinking minority. The only time in recent American history I've seen Americans come together was momentarily after the 9/11 attack. What do you think is the cause of this political polarization and can it be reversed?
This may have something to do with the radicalization of both parties, with the Republicans taken over by the far right and the Democrats by the far left. On the important issues of the day like abortion or our response to Covid each side seems to be not open to compromise. This radicalization of American politics is not a good thing. You saw something like this in the early nineteen thirties in Germany where the political alternatives were far right Nazis and far left Communists and political moderates were a shrinking minority. The only time in recent American history I've seen Americans come together was momentarily after the 9/11 attack. What do you think is the cause of this political polarization and can it be reversed?
47 comments
Those who approve of a particular policy, should be asking how will we know if this particular policy/decision worked and what are the next steps if it does not work. Those who do not approve of a policy, should be invited to offer an alternative policy/solution (more than just "I hate the proposal and all of those who support this proposal?)
If you are serious about reducing polarization and promoting consensus building and practical action, you might take a look at this organization: https://www.nolabels.org/
The Senate was created as the Upper House by the Founding Fathers to vote with more than a simple majority (and not be elected by popular vote). This would have helped to ensure that actions and legislation approved by the Senate were better than just trends and moe than a simple majority agreed that it was the right thing.
I blame media for the division - all of media. Television, books, newspaper and magazine, websites, social media accounts - they are all driven by purchases and clicks. Think of hate clicks when some Bloomberg jerk writes a column calling people who host large family holidays a murderer for not requiring proof of vaccination to attend. It still generated traffic, and traffic/viewership/purchases are all driven by a "is it bleeds, it leads" philosophy because it works. That mindset, because of the pervasive nature of media, has saturated our entire culture. It's inescapable without disconnecting from modern society. It would be great if the AOCs, political squads, Ted Cruz's and the Dons of the worled could dial it back, but their popularity is driven by their divisiveness. The careful and measured thought does not generate enough followers to matter.
The school was about 55% white at the time.
We need a house cleaning of revolutionary proportions in our Federal government.
I will play along and answer your question:
Q: What do you think is the cause of this political polarization and can it be reversed?
A: I think that; It’s never been about left vs right or Democrats vs Republicans.
“More like 0.1% of regular ass humans (the founding fathers, the politicians, the religious leaders, the puppet presidents, the rich and powerful, etc etc) tricking the rest of us into fighting among ourselves while they rob us blind.”
~ SanchoRG, Texas
~ Joined Aug, 2017 Last Seen Nov, 2021
“The American so called “Two Party System” is really two sides of the same coin”.
Both political parties serve the interests of the rich and powerful; corporate robber barons and politicians, who have become rich through ruthless and unscrupulous business practices.”
The USA is a nation in which income inequality has existed from the beginning, a situation that hurts many more people than it helps.
The USA was created for the benefit of a few Englishmen that wanted to be Opulent...
“Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other.
They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.”
~ James Madison, Jr.
~ “The Father of the Constitution"
~ the fourth president of the United States from 1809 to 1817, expansionist, philosopher.
~ Born: March 16, 1751 - Port Conway, Virginia, British America
~ Died: June 28, 1836 (aged 85) Montpelier, Virginia, U.S.
The only way to “reverse it” it would be having a real democracy so the wealthy minority would be outvoted and government would be overrun by the majority of the people, as long as they can really appreciate and value their fellow humans, and instead of fighting or competing against each other, they collaborate and help each other, and realize that they all be better off that way.
Today and in the future more and more people, no matter their nationality, color, race or ethnicity can continue making the world a better place to be, with no places suffering with the pain of injustice, suffering with the pain of oppression, the world will be transformed into a place where enjoying freedom and justice will be the norm for all...
There've been countless articles about the role of social media in creating polarization. Where voters get their news is often their own filtered information bubble. Conspiracy theories run rampant and at a velocity that would be impossible before tech companies like FB and Twitter. Trump was master at disseminating propaganda in bite-sized nuggets on Twitter. It's as if Trump disappeared after he was banned on Twitter.
For one, you don't get clicks by making people think, you get it from feeding their pre existing beliefs and whipping them into a frenzy. To some extent that's always been the case, but it's more direct and magnified now.
Second, it's easier for ourselves to join affinity groups and self segregate. Most political groups and message boards lean sharply one way, swarming on anyone who disagrees. You can avoid anyone who would otherwise challenge you. This also whips people into more of a frenzy and prevents them from learning the other viewpoint. We also get increasingly convinced of our own righteousness.
Third, as a result of this, we elect people at the margins who keep the cycle going. The problem with AOCs and MTGs is that they actually do represent us as we get crazier and more polarized.
I just know this thread is going to attract shitheads who make my point.
Maybe people are just less phony now.
What people were told starting in the 80s was, you won't have as much job security, but the economy will boom, there'll be better jobs to replace the old ones. You won't have a pension, but a 401K is as good or better. But that was bullshit for most people. White people under 40 are less likely to see non-whites as different from them, just fellow screwed-over people. Whereas, white people over 40 see the US looking less like Europe demographically, and more like the rest of world, and they are easily tricked into thinking that's why they are screwed over.
Just one example, it’s going to be hard to change peoples opinions these days thanks to the constant access to news (real and fake). People are having trouble deciphering what is fact and what is opinion. Gotta admit at times I get lost too.
I get along just fine with many, with whom my opinion differs, and many of my closest friends have different political preferences, some of you try to pigeonhole everyone and misrepresent their opinions and statements, if it wasn't for that we probably could get along just fine.
I disagree that if you aren't completely one or the other, you are different from the majority. Most people have varying degrees of right leaning opinions and left leaning opinions. It's much more complicated and most people are actually centrist.
Does that include how you feel about Trump ?
As far as calling anybody out, c'est la vie, a broken clock can be right twice a day.
The last time the US was this divided was Civil War era. History has shown one side was clearly right (The North). At this point I think the North is right again.
People need to turn out coz like the presidential election its about beating Republicans and that's it.
Good thing is Republicans will only turn out in droves for pro Trump candidates. Mainstream Republicans will have a tough time.
- Will Rogers
- Will Rogers
The Republicans moved very hard to the right due to FOX and gerrymandering. Y'all used to be the grown up party. "We can't afford that" is a legitimate political position. But the current Republican brand hates science. When I was a kid Republicans loved science.
Probably what will help is the zoomers and their lack of religious affiliation. With each funeral the Moral Majority keeps shrinking. When the US becomes secular in 20-25 years things will be much calmer.
Not that it's roses here, but everywhere else it's fucking horrible, and there are at least some reasonable, fact-based people here who can ignore the shit-flingers.
PM me if you want to know where you stand ;)
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Yep. Examples (1) discredit of prominent scientists like Fauci (2) anti-vaxx/anti-mask policies (3) quack therapies like hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin (4) climate science denial.
We know the proper number and characterization of sexes, and that there's a biological difference between them.
Actually, a lot of poor countries don't have a lot of COVID because they don't have a lot of old people. Ivermectin and HCQ data are questionable at best.
Thats what you want to go with, not enough old people, haha
Scarce Covid testing = very few positive test results and low number of reported cases.
When Trump was elected in 2016, I thought that that could mark the territorial break up of the US, starting with the 4 states on the Mexican border.
But now, things continue to get more contentious.
When Republicans are fighting for Abortion Restrictions and against the Build Back Better, they are fighting to maintain the plantation economy, fighting for the 1%, for the uberbosses.
When Republicans are fighting to end the COVID restrictions, they are fighting for the little guy. So this is a big improvement.
The leadership of the Democratic Party was very dishonest when it endorsed COVID hysteria.
1300 Republican bills now pending in the congress now to overturn the mandates. Most of these have no legal bearing because they have no chance of passing. But politically they carry a lot of weight. Opposition to the COVID mandates was a big factor in the recent Republican sweep in VA.
The question is, can the US have a Second Civil War without also triggering World War III.
SJG
Taylor Swift didn't jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYsUpUGi…
Republicans are fighting for the little guy when they oppose the COVID mandates. But most of the time they are still fighting for the uber-class, like when they oppose Build Back Better and Reproductive Choice.
People say that we are closer now to nuclear war than we have ever been since the Cuban Missile Crisis.
SJG
Origins of the Ricks
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=6860…
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9363
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9449
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=1389
Taylor Swift didn't jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYsUpUGi…
They tend to be wary of big government but not wanting to tear shit down, pro choice within the first few weeks of pregnancy but don't want elective abortion up to the moment of birth, pro infrastructure spending but wary of social engineering, want their kids educated on race but able to pursue gifted programs and the like, patriotic but wary of foreign intervention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXXp1bHd…
One of the things which made the First Civil War inevitable, was the fact that the Abolitionist Movement went extra legal. Its not that the loss of some slaves really made that much difference, it was a matter of honor.
Today as we move to the brink of a Second Civil War, I feel that its territorial dimension will be created if SCOTUS guts 1973 Roe v. Wade. Republicans in Red States are poised to try and advance their party by passing extreme abortion restrictions like we see now in MS and TX, and giving money to vigilantes. Prior to Roe v. Wade Reproductive Choice was already being protected by extra legal means, and especially in TX, where the Roe v. Wade case came from.
SJG
Eric Clapton - Layla - Crossroads Guitar Festival 2004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5oGt_PH…
Origins of the Ricks
https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=6860…
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9363
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=9449
https://tuscl.net/photo.php?id=1389
Taylor Swift didn't jump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYsUpUGi…
Maybe that would change if it were overturned, but if it goes to the states, the same red states that generally disapprove of abortion would be the ones to ban it, and the blue states that are pro choice would accept it. In a way, people get what they want.
On another note, the idea of deputizing enforcement (and encouraging snitching) scares the shit out of me. But that's a different issue. Gavin Newsom is trying to do the same with guns.
And I agree with RattleSnake777!
SJG
Taylor Swift
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXctLxNU…
Meanwhile the Republicans have been strategic about appointing young conservatives, and the Democrats foolish about opposition (see the Kavanaugh fiasco featuring the least credible accuser ever).
SJG
The great divide is old versus young.
The last accepted form of discrimination is ageism.
Increasing industrialization and expecting workers trying to pay their bills to absorb the loss is exacerbating it.
SJG