Massage places versus strip clubs

Massage places are the questionable vending machine of sex work. They are popular because they are cheaper and more straightforward than a strip club. They are also populated by assembly-line high volume sex workers who work under ethically sketchy conditions (this specifically refers to Asian massage parlors, which I remember making up the bulk of the chat at USASG). When Rhode Island cracked down on local AMPs, they found that the women working there were sleeping either on mattresses on the floor or on the massage tables. They also had their passports taken away by their employers.

Given all of that, I'm not sure it's a matter of strip clubs not being able to compete with massage places; it's more like they don't want to compete with massage places. It's also worthwhile to note that not all dancers want to work in a high-volume brothel, and not all strip club owners want to operate a high-volume brothel.

Many years ago, I went to AMPs on occasion without knowing much about how they operated, but then I started to learn more and decided it was simultaneously too mechanical and skeevy for me. So, I don't do that anymore. Also, I have fun in strip clubs. And I don't just mean the time I spend in VIP with a hot dancer (though that's pretty great...). I have fun just being in a strip club.

Call.Me.Ishmael, I don't like AMPS for the same reasons you don't. So, for both me and you, it's a good thing strip clubs haven't moved in that direction. I've wondered why, though, there seems to be more restrictions on strip clubs than massage places. We haven't had a new strip club open and then stay open here in Indianapolis for over 20 years. They seem to get blocked by the city government using zoning laws and licensing laws. One suburban club opened and was forced to close after the land it was on was rezoned. A local Mexican bar put up a stripper pole and hired some strippers and then was raided by the police because they didn't have an entertainment license. It's doubtful if they could have gotten one even if they tried to.

Massage places, though, open all the time here. Everyone knows that sexual activities take place in them, even more so than in strip clubs, but the city government doesn't stop them from opening. Why the double standard? It just seems very strange to me.

My guess:

Strip clubs are more obvious. And get pushed out because NOT IN MY BACKYARD FOR MY CHILDREN TO SEE.

Massage places are less of an eyesore and blend in more. There are SO many of them. Like find a random strip mall and there’s probably one massage place (whether the happy ending type of place or not) hanging out somewhere. And how does one do investigations in a timely manner without going the racist route of singling out Asian masseuses, when more than quite a few of them do perform legal massages. Start making arrests and then it turns out they did everything they were supposed to…embarrassing

I tried a couple way back when, they were scammy. It seems mega creepy to me when a club tries to have most or all the dancers be of a particular race, so not seeing why that would be less creepy for a MP. What would be the website for MPs most comparable to TUSCL? I remember seeing one that wanted $20 a month membership fee. I was briefly the regular of a dancer who had worked at a jackshack near a big military base, she said it wasn't bad work. Is SCs nowadays, dancers are generally OK with cuddling up and being caressed, but it's less common that there willing to let you get in their junk, or to do something with your junk (other than rub/grind on it through your pants). I get the impression in MPs it's reversed. They'll flash their goods and choke your chicken, maybe do a fast BJ or HS for a sizeable tip, but they'd think you were seriously perv if you wanted to pay for a whole hour of something and cuddle up with them. I did have a date once with a Korean escort with weak English. Maybe she was faking, but when I rubbed her back a little, she reacted like nobody had ever rubbed her back in her life.

Massage is always more popular than strip clubs on hobbyist sites. Hobbyists who favor escorts, AMPs, etc., think we SC are idiots who are paying for blueballs half the time, and the other half paying as much for a 10-minute extra in a cramped booth as they are paying for a full hour. Can't argue with the blueballs part, at least for non-extras trips, but definitely can argue about how well extras compare to AMPs. But regardless, the bottom line: in the hobbyist hierarchy, SCs are at the bottom. For many years on redbook, I think only the pro domination forum was smaller than the SC forum. AMPs and escorts ruled.

I haven't been to an AMP but have read enough about it, and also have friends who are AMP fans, to have absolutely no interest. Aside from the constant ambiguity about trafficked women, there's nothing about the experience that I'd enjoy.

I do (or used to) enjoy FBSM, but the experience is definitely very different from AMPs, along with no worries about trafficking, pimps, massage parlors run by organized crime, etc.

Trafficking of any kind is wrong. It should be prosecuted and conscientious consumers should not support this type of activity.

But some of the comments above seem to suggest that ALL massage parlors or all ASIAN massage parlors are staffed by women who are trafficked. That is simply not true.

The comments also imply that trafficking never occurs in a strip club. That is also not true.

Don't forget that trafficking also occurs in the restaurant industry and in farm workers, and in who knows how many other industries.

The more helpful discussion would be how to spot and how to help workers, including AMP employees and strippers, who are being trafficked.

I am of the opinion that legalizing and regulating sex work would remove some of the criminal element from the business and decrease trafficking. For parallels, consider what happened when the US passed the 18th amendment, prohibiting the manufacture and sale of alcohol. It motivated criminals, such as Al Capone, to become involved in the illegal manufacture and sale of alcohol. When prohibition was repealed, alcohol manufacture and sale was regulated and crime decreased. A similar phenomenon has happened with the recent legalization of recreational marijuana. I think it is time to legalize (and regulate) sex work. It might just reduce human trafficking and improve the safety and working conditions of consenting sex workers.

Said another way, trafficking is the problem, not AMPs or strip clubs.

Massage parlors are money laundering schemes for humab trafficking. If you frequent them you're basically financing sex slavery.

"The more helpful discussion would be how to spot and how to help workers, including AMP employees and strippers, who are being trafficked."

I work for the army and everyone in the army is given a class on spotting the signs. It's even more common overseas than here in the U.S. and, with army bases all over the world, male soldiers and civilian military personnel may come across this. Beside listing the signs, another thing that is emphasized is that anyone who spots it should not try to rescue the girl because the people involved in trafficking are quite dangerous. They should report it to the proper authorities and let them handle it.

So what is the website that's still running that comes closest to redbook?

Is there a high rate of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome among masseuses at jackshacks? If they're right-handed, do they give you a discount for doing it with their left hand, to cut the risk of CTS? Maybe that's how SJG fills the time when the library's closed, getting left-handed HJs.

@doc I think in countries with the most trafficking, they've already got the "proper" local authorities well bribed.

No reason one can't be a fan of both. Nice thing about AMPs is they make it easy. Little to no haggling, often a straight-up HE, and if you're lucky, a relaxing table shower and massage. Pretty good value, especially if the girl is young and cute.

In recent years, young/cute has been harder to come by. Plus, I've raised the bar on the quality of girl I need/want, in order to raise my senior flag pole. Luckily, I have more discretionary funds these days, so I can still obtain some joy in these loins.

SCs offer a mix of higher caliber girls, plus as has been said, there's other entertainment (drinking, relaxing, conversation, etc.) versus the straight-to-business AMP model.

rubmaps.com

IMHO, Massage places offer a better back room, but strip clubs offer a better front room.

Massage places are not hang out places, you have to select and session. You can't try to spin it. Harder to do FRMOS. And massage places really have no minimum standard for looks and dolling up. So you have to window shop. What you find will vary from shop to shop and from metro to metro.

In S.F. they know that they are competing with strip clubs, there are lots of shops and they have little fear of LE. So it is good, and it can be cheaper, and it tends to be cleaner girls and it is unabashedly FS.

SJG

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The basic deal in an AMP is $60 house fee, then for FS you give the girl maybe somewhere between $120 and $200. If you want to be seeing her outside, going to $200 is worth it.

You have 60 min, enough space. Large massage table, or you can put the sheet and pillow on the floor.

Now, kissing is not standard in AMPs. But if you can get under her skin, she won't hold back.

Once you have her DFKing it will be mind blowing. She will turn it into a Girl Friend Audition and her body will take over and totally fixate on getting your load. Expect to finish up with your girl on her back, an arm locked around your neck, and ramming her tongue into your mouth.

Now, these are AMPs, store front operations.

There are also AAMPs, the apartment version. These have a higher service level, DFKing, BBBJ, and MSOG are often standard. But I still do not recommend these, as the girls really are not living ordinary lives. They usually do not reside in this country. And there is no window shopping.

I only recommend AMPs. In an AMP they have nice hooks for you to hand your clothes up on, all better than a typical strip club.

https://tuscl.net/discussion.php?id=7649…

A strip club could be as nice, and the slut wear and dolling up standard is higher. But still hard to really spin it so it works well with the girl. But FRMOS is easier in a strip club than in an AMP.

SJG

^^^^^ basic deal is 60min alone with the girl in a nice session room. Most strip clubs cannot rival this.

Though Venom in Tucson seems to be $25 for 30min, so it could be $50 for 60min. That could be great.

Eventually I think we can go to a Private Party model and get the best of strip clubs and AMPs combined together.

SJG

"... I was just at usasexguide and noticed there were three times as many posts in the massage section than there was in the strip club section for Indianapolis, where I live, so they are obviously more popular than strip clubs. Checking a few other cities, I see a disparity there too ..."

IDK if one can necessarily make that determination b/c of usasexguide - via that one could say they went on TUSCL and found way more post for strip-clubs thus they are more popular than massage-parlors (there are listings for massage parlors on TUSCL).

The few times I've been in a happy-ending massage-parlor I've barely seen another custy; whereas a goods SC can can have a few hundred custies on a good night - I'm not saying massage parlors are or aren't more popular, I'm leaning towards no, I just speculate they may be more popular w/ the usasexguide users in particular.

Yeah rubmaps.com doesn't exist. rubmaps.ch wants $20/month to see reviews.

Because apparently a lot of people are cheap and only looking for a quick cheap potential suck and f***. I think I'm starting to realize that strip club is more of a bigger money type of situation. Where you have to go through the song and dance (figuratively and literally speaking) to get what you're looking for. Acquit sexual favor for me is totally unappealing. If that was the case I might as well just go on the street and find an s w. At least I can skip the entry fee and get right to business. And I bet many of those people that go to massage parlors for that reason probably hit up s w on the street anyway.

I guess not everybody has a patience to get inflating dance and talk with the girls over a drinks. I will admit it can get a bit pricey for the average Joe. Which is probably the main reason why massage parlors are so popular in these particular areas of discussion. Personally, thin Asian women don't do it for me. If you're going to be East Asian, at least don't be a stick figure

How do girlfriend auditions work?

Locally, most of the AMPs are massage brothels, though many of them seem to provide a *good* massage along with the sex. There are quite a few non-Asian places, and at a few of those you can get expensive extras beyond "standard", but most of them seem to be light to medium body rub with hand job only.

For reasons specified by others, I don't go to the AMPs. On USASG I once pointed out a bunch of red flags that other posters had pointed out, frequent changeover, women moving between AMPs locally and elsewhere, etc., I was basically told by a couple of the frequent customers to AMPs to shut up and that all the women were there voluntarily. I stopped bothering at that point. I might try again, but I suspect I'll get shut down again. Willful ignorance is a powerful force.

I’ve never been to a MP nor have I ever had any desire to do so.

When I frequented USASG, I noticed that most of the guys in the "massage" section believed that those girls were living the American dream. I also noted that guys who argued otherwise would get their comments or entire profile deleted by the admins.

Because it's foreign owned and hosted, USASG encourages *a lot* of graphic detail (along with using dancer names) and cracks down on anyone who argues against doing that. They don't care about repercussions because it will never affect them.

Which is why I stopped using that site years ago.

Icey, AMP women are no different from other women. When she wants to show you that she likes you she will just go all out. She'll follow you lead and DFK without reserve and do whatever you want her to do. Likely we will finish up with her on her back, having an arm wrapped around my neck and ramming her tongue into my mouth. Then usually she will suggest that next time we go someplace else, sometimes even inviting me to see her at her home.

This is about as hard as women can push. Because they know that anymore will scare the guy off.

SJG

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^^^ The library just opened.

@Call.Me.Ishmael: "Because it's foreign owned and hosted, USASG encourages *a lot* of graphic detail (along with using dancer names) and cracks down on anyone who argues against doing that. They don't care about repercussions because it will never affect them."

That's absolutely true. Their mission is explicitly "to help men find women for sex". The means and consequences are irrelevant. Fortunately, in our local section, there is a mostly un-moderated forum where we can call each other assholes, filthy pigs, and crack whore lovers without being banned or censored. Certain things are still verboten, like revealing a provider's real name, but many of the rules are unenforced there.

Yeah - USASG seems to attract the guys that are more hardcore when it comes to P4P

I read it but am not registered to post. I see a lot of wrong information regarding the Atlanta strip club scene.

On USASG I was never able to find a way to look up one particular club or AMP. It seems the best you can do is zero in on a fairly large geographical area, for example "Central NJ." Then you choose "Massage Parlors" which has hundreds of posts on all different AMPs. No way to find the one you're interested in. And the search feature is practically useless.

Rubmaps is great
https://www.rubmaps.ch/

Then to learn about the shops, do Advanced Search and select 4 things. Kissing, DATY, FIV, and FS. Then look for what it still finds.

This does not mean that that is what you intend to do. Your just looking for shops where someone has claimed this kind of mileage. Don't worry about when it happened or the names of the girls.

Using Rubmaps like this is about the best you can do.

You can look by City or by zip code and by zip code and radius.

Some metros are great. Others not.

More shops is better because they are in competition and LE is too overloaded to worry about it.

Less LE pressure means more slutty dressing and slutty behavior in the front room. And it means girls are more DFKing and FS oriented in back room.

SJG

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@shadowcat: The same is true of the Louisville club scene; there's lots of misinformation. I'm not sure if it's deliberate *dis*information, or just ignorance. Makes me shake my head at the shit being posted sometimes.

@misterorange: It depends on your area. USASG tends to have separate dedicated sections for large cities, but outside of those areas, it's less specific. For instance, Kentucky has dedicated sections for Louisville, Lexington, Owensboro, and Bowling Green. The other sections are Eastern KY, Western KY, Northern KY, and "Other Areas". It's tough to find anything useful in those latter areas.

In part, it probably has to do with local regulations, visibility to the public, and level of enforcement. There is different treatment for strip clubs with liquor licenses, nude clubs, Jack shacks, massage parlors with the occasional handjob, and massage parlors that are full on brothels.

I’m guessing that smaller massage parlors have the best chance of flying under the radar.

^^^^ You can tell by the number of shops in that city, and by the sluttiness of dress and demeanor of the girls in the front room.

SJG

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