OT: meritocracy vs quotas

It seems when they go by pure data vs "what a person looks like", diversity comes up short

Yep,they can't pick the "right" skin color when they don't know what it is.

"pure data" doesn't exist. But what does exist is a pattern of familiar that reinforces itself over time. Photos are the Diversity for Dummies approach to increasing promotion rates within certain demographics, rather than identifying key factors in how promo board rankings are determined in general with/without headshots.

The normalization of openly racist leftist policy continues...

We just have to accept the fact that when you look at various ethnic groups there are some differences. Long ago us humans broke off and migrated to different places and kept evolving, changing adapting to different environments. Certain groups have different strengths and weaknesses on AVERAGE. Nobody did anything wrong. It's the one fact that many American's I don't think will be able to ever accept or handle. It's just best look at people not in groups but as individuals. And especially not blanketly blame one group for the lack of equal results, it's just bizarre.

More than any other place, the military is the place where meritocracy absolutely should rule. I no more want diversity quotas for organization tasked to defend my country than I would want favorite NBA team to push for making team 60% white guys. Especially since the stakes in the military are very much higher than NBA teams W-L record.

Lastly, photo requirement is knee jerk asinine. By the time officers get to be a certain grade (O6 and above- Captain USN, Colonel USA/ USAF/ USMC), the promotion board pretty much knows who's who among the spectrum of promotion candidates, photo or not.

O-6 and above are a tiny minority of the candidates that go before promotion boards. Very few officers make it to that level. Most of the board candidates are senior NCOs or officers O-3 through O-5 (promotion from O-1 to O-2 is pretty much automatic). The photos are somewhat helpful to screen out those that haven’t maintained fitness/weight standards.

It is a problem built into the system; white men are simply more likely to promote white men. Which means that, all things being equal, a predominantly white male leadership regime will tend to remain.

The existing state of affairs, especially regarding social or political issues, is hard to overcome without being perceived, by the ruling white men leadership, as a “loss” of some kind.

In the existing system, a white men patriarchal culture, the assumption is that the playing field is already level and the results already fair.

It’s a self-serving belief that absolves white men of any and all responsibility while shoring up their leadership’s existing power.

Apart from the fact that that is demonstrably untrue, history has proved, beyond all reasonable doubt, that the white men, decision-makers aren’t necessarily the best guys for the job.

Just think about it for a moment; the things that ensure success, in the existing white dominated, world are as much about good education, economic independence, connections and professional access, something that a lot of qualified people who aren’t white men simply have less opportunity to obtain.

This Lie of Meritocracy means that, “all things being equal”, a predominantly male leadership regime will tend to remain.

Good points, doc. I recall a USA Today article last year complaining about the lack of diversity in the US Military. Article listed racial/ethnic profiles for senior NCO's, officers, and flag rank officers (O7and above). Senior NCO rates were more, if not perfectly in line with national race profile percentages. However, officer corps profiles, particularly flag rank category fell short (later far short) of diversity goals, which the article harped on.

I stand by my stated preference for meritocracy, not diversity quotas being the rule for military promotions.

Progressives are simply swine out to destroy America and make it a shithole country, like the following parts: Chicago; Minneapolis; Baltimore; New Orleans; Washington, D.C.; Portland; Seattle; Los Angeles ........ CJ you're an idiot. What does it mean to be a white man? Work hard? Get educated? Not be weak? Not bitch and whine? Try harder? Work longer hours: Lazy fucks fail and some cultures are just filled with lazy fucks.

“I stand by my stated preference for meritocracy, not diversity quotas being the rule for military promotions.”

Agee 100%. In fact, merit should be the only criterion for any promotion, military or otherwise.

The ostensible purpose of the photos was to ensure the candidate knew how to wear a uniform (you might be surprised how many people actually in the military don’t), and had an acceptable level of military bearing and appearance. It was assumed boards were using the photos to ID and discriminate against minorities. The results of eliminating the photo requirement proves the opposite.

^It is a problem built into the system; white men are simply more likely to promote white men. Which means that, all things being equal, a predominantly white male leadership regime will tend to remain.

The vast majority of HR departments in corporate America/UK/Canada are run by women. The field is something like 90-95% women. Since 2020, many companies are now openly stating "We are only hiring diverse candidates at this time." In other words, no men and no whites need even apply. While this thread is about the military where there are still a lot of white males, that is obviously changing drastically right now.

Your statement about "the existing system, a white men patriarchal culture" is simply not true. It's not 1955 anymore. This appears to be a very standard leftist technique...to paint the world like it was in earlier eras (in many cases, decades ago) and use it to justify hyper-progressive policies in the present as though 1950s/1960s style oppression is still prevalent today.

In the United States racism is baked into the creation of the United States of America itself, in the society and laws, it can, undeniably, be seen in the entire culture and history of the country, from the Declaration of Independence to today.

America’s institutions, the government, education, and culture, all contribute or reinforce, to this day, the oppression of marginalized social groups of poor people of color while protecting dominant social groups of mainly rich white elites and their allies.

The military is just another of the United States of America’s institutions that shows the historical patterns of this system of oppression that is prevalent today.

^In the United States racism is baked into the creation of the United States of America itself, in the society and laws, it can, undeniably, be seen in the entire culture and history of the country, from the Declaration of Independence to today.

Have things not evolved since 1776? Is a country that twice elected a black President and currently has a sitting black(ish) female Vice-President emblematic of racism that "can undeniably be seen today?"

What of a corporate culture that in the past two years has given millions to BLM? That is openly emphasizing and prioritizing the hiring of minorities and women?

^America’s institutions, the government, education, and culture, all contribute or reinforce, to this day, the oppression of marginalized social groups of poor people of color while protecting dominant social groups of mainly rich white elites and their allies.

When you talk of institutions, do you claim that the America post Civil Rights Act is not dramatically different than the America of the colonial era? Again, this is using a decades-old mindset that does not reflect modern-day reality where minorities are given every chance to succeed.

And it's not white elites vs. minorities. It's the global elites vs. everyone else (regardless of race). Race is being used by the global elites to divide and distract while they plunder ever more wealth, scheme up digital surveillance plans under the guise of Covid, concoct insane climate control regulations, and chip away at more and more individual freedoms. The social justice movements are distraction techniques. Turn women against men. Turn blacks against whites. Old Marxist techniques. To have everyone yell at each other about being oppressed and not notice while the globalists discuss their open borders plans over poached salmon at the latest "global conference" in Davos.

^

“You are not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality.

Wrong is wrong, no matter when, where or who does it or says it."

Civilians get the death penalty for doing what those jn the military get paid to do

^ American Soldiers put their life on the line so losers like you don’t have to. Sometimes they die defending your right to be a lazy useless bastard

Nah they go murder brown people for corporate interests.

Spoken like an ungrateful loser why don’t you move to one of those other countries that you think are better, might open your eyes.

My eyes are more open than your gaping ass 20fag

Such a loser, must really suck to be you Icee, it's easy to see why you wanted to kill yourself. can't say I blame you if I were anything like you, I'd probably wish myself dead too.

War is government sanctioned murder

Being in the armed forces doesn't make you a hero. Plenty of useless pieces of shit have served or are serving. That is why the DoD is placing diversity over merit, CRT over combat readiness, and so on. Obama and his socialist cronies purged the officer ranks and senior DoD civilians of those who placed duty over political affiliation. Same for the intelligence and national law enforcement. That is why China is running rampant globally, our southern border is an unmitigated disaster, Iran DGAF, Putin knowsnhe can beat the US, etc. And you idiot leftists let Obama's even more inept, cowardly, senile VP steal an election andnput even dumbet and more incompetent people in charge!

Gammanu you're saying we need right wing white people to kill immigrants and the Chinese. You're a sick fuck

Benedict Arnold; William Calley; Timothy McVeigh - all served. The Chinese are the enemy of Americans Icee, like you. People like you are a stain on this country.

If and when the Chinese nation becomes an enemy of the United States, we won't be trying to persuade each other of what the situation is on a titty bar forum. It'll be very apparent. And whoever our senior military commanders happen to be, we'll be hoping they're at the top of their game.

Whenever there is a discussion of racial quotas and the lack of diversity in corporate America I always think back to a seminar I participated in for my MBA financial accounting class.

The CFO and several top level executives (all white males) made a presentation to the class and during the discussion a female POC pointed out that there were very few women or POC represented at the management level of the company.

I thought the response was quite interesting. The CFO said they heavily recruit blacks at all the Ivy’s and run full page ads in the Wall Street Journal and NY Times trying to recruit women and POC and they get zero qualified applicants. All the top level students from Harvard, Yale, Princeton want to work in New York or the east coast - they don’t want to live in the Midwest if it’s not a large urban area.

Dig a little deeper. There’s always more to the story than white corporate America simply may be all racists.

"The CFO said...the top level students from Harvard, Yale, Princeton want to work in..."

Problem found. Or one of them. How many grads are out there from non-Ivy League schools? Motorhead has a point. Perception issues are not all about race.

Yeah, I kinda thought the same thing. You’ve got U of Michigan, Michigan State and the Big 10 in your own backyard and it seems like there would be some qualified candidates

The ironic thing is the company was acquired by company ranked in the top 50 of fortune company with HQ in Boston about 2 years later so one of the Ivy students who failed to apply could have been working in the east coast

Totally agree with doctorevil's comments above. When I was an Infantry officer from 87 - 95 it was common knowledge that pictures for the promotion board were to confirm the soldier was physically fit and took pride in wearing the uniform correctly. The pictures were not "headshots" as someone mentioned earlier, they were full body photos from cap to shoes.

Back in those days there was never any training specifically geared toward diversity or inclusion. Gays weren't allowed, period. As far as race discrimination, the military was the one place where it didn't seem to exist. Everyone knew that accepting others based on their ability and dedication to the mission could one day make the difference between success and failure, even between life and death. No one needed to be told that seeing every soldier as "army green" rather than their skin color just made sense, regardless of what your personal background might have been.

It wasn't until "diversity training" began that the military became more like the rest of society. I wonder how many otherwise non-biased people began to feel animosity against fellow soldiers after having missed a promotion they deserved due to either explicit or unwritten rules on diversity.