"Bill Ackman on saving capitalism: Every child in the U.S. could be given enough money at birth to become millionaires by retirement"
"... Under Ackman’s plan, each child born in the U.S. would receive $6,750 in a government-funded basket of index funds that could only be tapped at retirement. Assuming 8% returns over 65 years from birth to retirement, that total would ultimately exceed $1 million, and it would cost the government about $26 billion a year, if the birthrate holds ..."
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last commentI like the idea of people having that additional security in retirement - but it won't do much for most of the life of those folks (i.e. up to age 65) - but still they would have that security-blanket for their non-working years
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Not opposed to the idea but it may only work if capatilism is highly enforced and business is encouraged to innovate and grow. Somehow the govt would fuck it all up.
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And it wont please the 'free shit now' crowd.
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It sounds good. But thats given people reach 65. And there should be tax free early buyout options once it reaches a certain amount.
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Who's a socialist now ?
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pumping a fresh 26 Billion into the stock market each year would help keep the market afloat but would also play favorites to those in the index
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Personally, I don't like Social Security - providing retirement income is not an authorized function of the Federal government.
As such, I'm not looking for new ways for the Feds to do things that they aren't allowed to do.
Here's a better idea.
Economics 101 - if you want to discourage an activity, you tax it. If you want to encourage an activity, you subsidize it. And if you want to determine if an activity stands on its own merit, leave it alone.
This country has a lot of problems. One problem that we DON'T have is a problem of too many people saving/investing too much and planning for the future.
Yet we discourage investment by taxing capital gains. (And those rates will go up if we make the wrong decision as a country in November)
You can't have capitalism without capital. So why penalize people for making money on investments?
Eliminate the capital gains tax entirely. People will have more money for their future, the capital base will expand, and the country will prosper.
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@TwentyFive - who's a socialist now? You are.
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@Daddilac - according to this link ( siblisresearch.com.) ), the total market cap of the US stock market on 6/30/20 was 35.5 trillion.
$25 billion a year is nothing but noise in a market that size.
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More proof that it's a bad idea - IceyLoco likes it.
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windex in other news you're a twat so what LOL
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Adjusted for inflation, $1M will be worty about $80,000 in 65 years(assuming 4% inflation). Do you really expect under 2% inflation for the next 65 years?
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Most can't afford to save or invest and 401ks are a scam. Social security needs to be higher and is one of the best programs around. Winex is out of touch with reality
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Assuming 8% returns lol.
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Anyway, the 8% figure does not accout for inflation and you get vastly different results depending on the assumptions
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^ I thought it was appropriate
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I'm wondering why I got downvoted? Lol, is there somthing wrong or controvertial about including inflation?
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In a vacuum, it would be a great plan. Many people like myself would be left out, born too early for that plan and born too late for social security to be left for us, but that's life. There are too many variables to make it worthwhile: inflation, market fluctuations, tax law changes, negative interest rates (they're coming), VAT taxes (they're coming, too), etc.
Maybe it was meant to be looked at in a more abstract fashion, such as how a middle class family or family friend could make a gift of equivalent value that would accrue value similarly.
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^ I take a down vote as a compliment, consider the possible sources LOL
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I think the S&P has returned a bit over 7% over the last 15-years and that is going thru a great recession (nothing to say we can't have one or more like that but ....)
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@TwentyFive - your accuracy record is unblemished. But even if you were right and I was a twat, I would rather be a twat than a socialist.
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@IceyLoco - would you care to explain how 401Ks are a scam?
The money contributed is taken from your paycheck before taxes are deducted - this maximizes the amount of money you have working for you.
Most companies will match some portion of your contribution as a way to encourage you to take advantage of the plan. This is free money.
Because the money deducted is pre-tax, the shrinkage in your paycheck is smaller than it would appear to be. i.e. if you take out 15% of your pay for your 401k, your paycheck may only shrink by 10%. Yet the entire 15% plus the company match goes into an account that you control.
Really, the only more attractive investment plan than the 401k is the Roth IRA. With a Roth IRA, your contributions are all taken out after taxes, but all of the appreciation is tax free.
Contributions to a Roth IRA and a 401K are not mutually exclusive. If your income is low enough to qualify, you can contribute to both plans. Unfortunately I am not eligible to contribute to a Roth IRA, but I would be all over it if I was eligible.
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@RandomMember and TwentyFive - why do you even care if you get up votes or down votes? Do you get some sort of validation from people anonymously clicking on a thumbs-up or thumbs-down?
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@DesertScrub - if you study the etymology of the word "twat", you will find that you didn't create the word.
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windex I really don't give a fuck one way or another whether anyone down or up votes me
and ace, when you study the etymology of the word Dipshit your name is number one on both the google and duck duck search engines
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@TwentyFive - one lie, and one error. Par for the course.
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@windex
lol good job up voting yourself, and down voting me and showing the board that I was correct you are a twat
bye now you are boring and no longer amuse me.
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@TwentyFive - still an unblemished record. I didn’t upvote myself, nor did I downvote you.
I can easily prove it by taking each action if you would like me to.
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Windex 401ks are scams where they just gamble with your money.
Youre a socially retarded computer geek
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@IceyLoco - LOL - that sounds like a special kind of Las Vegas based 401k plan. I have a variety of stock and bond funds available in the various 401k's that I have, and I can choose which funds get my money.
I would rather be a "socially retarded computer geek" than a mentally retarded wanna-be gang banger like you.
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One more thing IceyLoco - if you can afford to go to strip clubs, then you can afford to contribute to a 401k plan. (The 401k should come before the clubs - your future self will thank you for your discipline)
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@Papi_Chulo
NO; the stock market is rigged.
And there is a point about the machinery of capitalism historically being oiled with the blood sweat and tears of the workers.
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Lmao AOC, shout some more slogans you two bit whore.∆
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"You cannot reason someone out of a position that he did not reason himself into."
--Attributed to Jonathan Swift, on Icey and CJ
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Well, on paper it looks great, but probably wouldn't work in practice. Currently we put our own hard-owned money into Social Security and the government steals it from us. Is there any reason to think they wouldn't "borrow back" from an account funded by the government in the first place?
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It doesn’t even look good on paper.
The cost quoted is $26 billion. That is based on multiplying births by 6,250.
What about the bureaucracy that will be created to put money into the system and manage it? When have you ever seen a Federal government program without significant friction related to bureaucracy?
Rounding the $26 billion down to $25 billion to make the example simple, after 40 years, the program would be managing $1 trillion. And I do mean managing. Don’t expect something run by the Feds to look like an individual stock market account where you could invest in any security you want. Expect it to be more akin to another Social Security slush fund.
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This whole thing is nothing more than pie in the sky. My mentors always cautioned me that when a fight breaks out watch the cash register not the combatants, and if any of you have been watching, Mr. Trump has made a move to defund Social Security, that's a real issue for y'all.
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Defund lol. Someone read the Daily Beast today with a cup of bitter.
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^ I’m far from bitter that’s you my friend
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Yes my life of poker, weed, sex, golf, hiking, swinging and dining out is awful. Sunday nights FFM will just be awful.
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^ I’m glad you’ve found a way to fill the emptiness
I have more than my share of fun
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Sure doesn't appear to me to be that way, but I am happy for you if you are happy.
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LOL if you say so
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@SkiBirther wrote: "Defund lol. Someone read the Daily Beast today"
SkiBirther, why do you think Trump's executive order calls for a payroll tax holiday? He (Trump) wants to make the payroll tax-cut permanent (although congress would have to approve). Don't you think you should get your head out of your ass? You are getting to that age where entitlements will be important.
Also, back to the original topic, how do you feel about giving free money to little black and brown babies? Is that a good idea? How can we be sure they were born here?
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over the past 100 years the SP 500 has averaged 10.8% so if someone used 8% then that is probably fair after inflation. Once you have the million dollars at 65 you have to turn it into an income stream. Conventional planning says to draw down 4-5% annually so that the money will outlive you. Therefore you would be drawing 40-50k in retirement... Not nearly enough money.
My two cents.... horrible plan
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Well I think 8% is overly optimistic and neither one of us knows.
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So what are we going to do if we get 4% after inflation. Do we let our seniors eat cat food in retirenent?
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Instead of the "Ackman plan" let's call it the "cross-your-fingers-grandma-might-starve-but-wall-street-always-wins" retirement plan.
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And as per usual windex at al prove their dissociation from reality
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You're an idiot random. The idea I would rely on the fucking government or anyone else to take care of me is stupid. I will provide for me and mine. As far as free money? I wouldn't give it to anyone at birth. Ever. In fact maybe some of the pompous assholes here might actually read the law and understand that working children don't have the legal right to keep their earnings; they keep it only because their parents allow them to do so. Every cent given away would be subject to theft. The only thing an illegal alien in this land deserves is a fucking beat down before they are ejected back to their shit hole countries. My goal in life is to enjoy life as long as its similar to the life I have always enjoyed and then go out with a splash that reverberates.
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Nothing like a greedy old man telling people what to do
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Nothing like a useless whiny welfare bitch with zero lifetime contributions to whine about not getting a free ride. Except for whores and cannon fodder, young people today serve no purpose whatsoever.
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LOL... RandomDUMBASS thinks it will be lower, call the news stations... alert wall street
I quote 100 year history and you come back with what
STFU and let the adults talk
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@IceyLoco - why don't you tell me what my "dissociation from reality" is. I'd love to hear your understanding of reality.
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