I'm most familiar with the executive order to stop collecting the employee portion of payroll taxes until the end of the year. It's probably constitutional because it's not a cut in taxes; the unpaid taxes are still due on Tax day 2021.
But it's a stupid idea -- about as stupid as hydroxychlorquine or drinking bleach or calling Fauci a "preening asshole." First off, it doesn't help the unemployed because they don't pay payroll taxes. And unless congress turns this into an outright tax cut, clueless workers will be hit with an unexpected tax bill in 2021. If the employees don't pay up, their employers have to pay the tax.
Trump and the GOP want to cut back on SS and sabotaging payroll taxes is one way to get there. It's not going to happen with a Democratic congress -- but it's something for the decaying, geriatric, guys on TUSCL to consider.
It's something that I never thought I would say, but IceyLoco is right. I didn't like it when Obama did it. And I don't like when Trump is doing it either.
It’s questionable from a legal standpoint, though Obama’s actions are a precedent that means some aspects would survive a court challenge.
Politically, it’s fucking brilliant. Dems thought they could tank the economy and blame it on Trump. Instead, he props up the economy until Election Day. Dems can’t challenge it legally or their desire to tank the economy would be obvious.
Incidentally, the rumor is that Kamala turned down the VP spot, which explains the long delay from Biden. Kamala knows Biden is going to lose and it would be the end of her career if she were on the ticket. Remember Tim Kaine ?
Trump will either be leaving office in 5 months, or 4 years and 5 months.
What happens when he is gone?
Separation of powers is more important than any one election cycle. There is no reason for any subsequent president to follow the "quaint ideas" in the Constitution with the actions of the current president and his predecessor.
And, if Biden wins, how well will the Constitution stand in the long run ? This is it. All the marbles are on the table. The survival of the country is on the line.
Trump crossed the line with this executive action. There is a chance we can recover from it constitutionally. With Biden as President, Susan Rice as VP, and Kamala Harris as AG, we may as well burn the constitution.
^^^ Lol, aren't you 70-yrs-old, Mark? Let me spell this out since you don't seem to understand. The only thing of substance in the executive orders is the payroll-tax holiday. Trump has gone on record that he wants the cuts to be permanent. Do you understand? That would bankrupt Social Security and guarantee his loss.
You mean fewer funds would go into the Social Security lock box trust fund ? That’s the trust fund invested entirely in worthless IOUs from the federal government. From that standpoint, SS has been bankrupt for decades.
@RandomMemember - I've got news for you - Social Security has been unsustainable since it's inception.
At somewhere around 2 workers per recipient currently and declining because of declining birth rates, it will collapse regardless what anyone does.
When someone creates a system where previous "investors" are paid by money brought in by new people, it is called a Ponzi scheme. The only thing that gives Social Security any degree of legality is the fact that the people who write the laws are the ones who are running the Ponzi scheme.
Social Security is the perfect example of what happens when people in Washington DC ignore the Constitution.
Obama/Biden already ignored the constitution. Biden ( or whoever the real President was ), would do it again and again. Their political judges prove that.
If you want to see the Constitution protected, there is zero chance with Biden. Trump’s judicial appointments suggest he supports the Constitution in the long run.
Leftists have destroyed democracy and political pluralism, not to mention obliterating the Constitution, turned society into a clown world dictstorship, and are now bitching about "unconstitutionality."
So sick of this. At least they could be happy once in a while. What more do they want? I guess until everyone they disagree is in prison or dead they won't be happy. Probably not even then.
The DNC has released its speaker list for the convention. All the VP candidates have a slot except Susan Rice. Does that mean she will speak in the slot reserved for VP ? We should know soon.
Politically it was brilliant. The Dems were clearly going to dig in until Republicans agreed to fund profligate spending and never-ending lockdowns of the blue states. Trump sidestepped the trap and made the Dems look bad in the process. They will look even worse if they do something as foolish as challenge the orders in court.
But like others, I don't like such free wheeling use of executive orders. Even if I liked the result this time, it won't always be the Republicans in charge and this further enshrines bad precedents. Idk.
I think Trump went a bit far in pushing this last stimulus along with an executive order.
I understand it’s nearing an election, and he’s in a potential battle for another 4 years.
However, I’m not sure it is a good thing overall.
I’m unsure if he will sway voters with the stimulus. My view is the American public is very divided, and most folks aren’t likely to be on the fence. The two candidates seem to be divisive figures, and neither is going to move towards the center (to appeal to moderates).
For the "conservatives" in favor of executive orders, are you ready for a few years down the road when President AOC does anything that she feels like?
The courts have historically given a President wide leeway to operate in times of national crisis. That recognizes that there are times, such as war, when Congress acts too slowly. That’s a valid interpretation of the Constitution.
I’d say our current situation qualifies as a crisis requiring quick action.
Go read on some of the things Lincoln or FDR did, with the blessing of the court, during their time of crisis. The court only stepped in if the President tried to do something not related to the crisis.
Maybe. But, it’s up to the Courts. If Trump has 4 more years of appointing constitutional judges, the court might tell a future Democrat President to pound sand if they invent a crisis to act like a King.
"Incidentally, the rumor is that Kamala turned down the VP spot, which explains the long delay from Biden. Kamala knows Biden is going to lose and it would be the end of her career if she were on the ticket. Remember Tim Kaine ?"
@Mark94 - I think that I know the origin of the rumor you heard. I read an op-ed piece a few days ago - it advised her to turn down a VP role and go for Attorney General. The thesis was that VP is mainly ceremonial, and that the Attorney General position would set her up better for the future.
Obama is irrelevant to the convo as is any previous president. Nor is the legality of individual orders as important as the fact that Trump uses executive orders to be an authoritarian and has done so since entering office.
And these orders are stupid. They don't really help anyone. People will hopefully come to their senses when they don't see any money or any of his promises
The Dems have declared war on Trump from the very beginning in 2016 - starting with Russiagate which is now starting to look like collusion by Trump's enemies instead of by Trump, to the Dems siding w/ with anarchists and rioters, to the Dems now holding-up a new relief package then trying to frame it as Trump "not wanting to help the American people" - "all is fair in love and war" and the Dems have declared war on Trump and on a good portion of the American people w/ their actions.
Papi is not wrong. Political compromise seems to have gone away. It’s possible the president isn’t interested in a compromise anymore.
Trump is a polarizing guy - and he’s more of a rough New Yorker than I expected. I’m sure he holds grudges too.
Sadly the Democrats are able to stall when they want. This is an example of the mess in Washington. There’s too much gridlock. The only way around the current mess is to use executive order.
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But it's a stupid idea -- about as stupid as hydroxychlorquine or drinking bleach or calling Fauci a "preening asshole." First off, it doesn't help the unemployed because they don't pay payroll taxes. And unless congress turns this into an outright tax cut, clueless workers will be hit with an unexpected tax bill in 2021. If the employees don't pay up, their employers have to pay the tax.
Trump and the GOP want to cut back on SS and sabotaging payroll taxes is one way to get there. It's not going to happen with a Democratic congress -- but it's something for the decaying, geriatric, guys on TUSCL to consider.
We have separation of powers for a reason.
Politically, it’s fucking brilliant. Dems thought they could tank the economy and blame it on Trump. Instead, he props up the economy until Election Day. Dems can’t challenge it legally or their desire to tank the economy would be obvious.
Incidentally, the rumor is that Kamala turned down the VP spot, which explains the long delay from Biden. Kamala knows Biden is going to lose and it would be the end of her career if she were on the ticket. Remember Tim Kaine ?
Trump will either be leaving office in 5 months, or 4 years and 5 months.
What happens when he is gone?
Separation of powers is more important than any one election cycle. There is no reason for any subsequent president to follow the "quaint ideas" in the Constitution with the actions of the current president and his predecessor.
Trump crossed the line with this executive action. There is a chance we can recover from it constitutionally. With Biden as President, Susan Rice as VP, and Kamala Harris as AG, we may as well burn the constitution.
^^^ Lol, aren't you 70-yrs-old, Mark? Let me spell this out since you don't seem to understand. The only thing of substance in the executive orders is the payroll-tax holiday. Trump has gone on record that he wants the cuts to be permanent. Do you understand? That would bankrupt Social Security and guarantee his loss.
But the fact is that the Constitution is the law of the land and ignoring it leaves us worse off as a nation.
At somewhere around 2 workers per recipient currently and declining because of declining birth rates, it will collapse regardless what anyone does.
When someone creates a system where previous "investors" are paid by money brought in by new people, it is called a Ponzi scheme. The only thing that gives Social Security any degree of legality is the fact that the people who write the laws are the ones who are running the Ponzi scheme.
Social Security is the perfect example of what happens when people in Washington DC ignore the Constitution.
If you want to see the Constitution protected, there is zero chance with Biden. Trump’s judicial appointments suggest he supports the Constitution in the long run.
So sick of this. At least they could be happy once in a while. What more do they want? I guess until everyone they disagree is in prison or dead they won't be happy. Probably not even then.
Politically it was brilliant. The Dems were clearly going to dig in until Republicans agreed to fund profligate spending and never-ending lockdowns of the blue states. Trump sidestepped the trap and made the Dems look bad in the process. They will look even worse if they do something as foolish as challenge the orders in court.
But like others, I don't like such free wheeling use of executive orders. Even if I liked the result this time, it won't always be the Republicans in charge and this further enshrines bad precedents. Idk.
I understand it’s nearing an election, and he’s in a potential battle for another 4 years.
However, I’m not sure it is a good thing overall.
I’m unsure if he will sway voters with the stimulus. My view is the American public is very divided, and most folks aren’t likely to be on the fence. The two candidates seem to be divisive figures, and neither is going to move towards the center (to appeal to moderates).
I’d say our current situation qualifies as a crisis requiring quick action.
"Incidentally, the rumor is that Kamala turned down the VP spot, which explains the long delay from Biden. Kamala knows Biden is going to lose and it would be the end of her career if she were on the ticket. Remember Tim Kaine ?"
LOL
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/11…
And these orders are stupid. They don't really help anyone. People will hopefully come to their senses when they don't see any money or any of his promises
Trump is a polarizing guy - and he’s more of a rough New Yorker than I expected. I’m sure he holds grudges too.
Sadly the Democrats are able to stall when they want. This is an example of the mess in Washington. There’s too much gridlock. The only way around the current mess is to use executive order.