I don't think racism is one of them. It's unions and militarization. The guy that killed Floyd had 17 misconduct allegations against him and was never disciplined, no doubt because the police union protected him. Anyone can probably collect a few unfounded complaints over the years, but 17? I'm sure some or many were valid, but with no consequences, he was emboldened. He was bound to kill someone eventually. Then there's militarization. Police department have been flooded with excess military gear over the years, and all the cops now like to walk around in fatigues and tactical gear like they're some kind of commando or something. If they want to do that shit, they should join the Army and volunteer for special forces or something. Both of these things contribute to an us v. them attitude between the cops and the community they are supposed to be "protecting and serving." Police unions should be banned, and cops need to go back to being cops, not Rambo.
@doc The thing that struck me as the most sad aspect of this whole episode was while this rogue cop had his knee on the neck of Mr Floyd he was pleading for mercy and calling that cop sir, I don’t think if it was you or I with the background we have that either of us would have been passively accepting of that bastard trying to strangle us
As big of a man as Mr Floyd was I find it difficult, after hearing what was said on that tape, to think of Mr. Floyd as posing a threat to any of those police
Most cops like walking around like Rambo because so many cops now are former or reserve soldiers. I challenge you to find even 1 decently sized police force that doesn't have at least one former operator in their ranks. When I luved in Bartlett, IL, they had TWO former navy SEALs on the force, and this was before 9/11!
Well I agree that 1) A lot of the LE I talk to are former military and 2) Police forces have had to "militarize" themselves due to increased threats from the criminals who now have easier access to much more sophisticated and powerful weapons. Thing is they project this "militaristic" attitude with all citizens whether they are in a threatening situation or not. This is where training should come in. Got pulled over for running a yellow light and you would have thought I was torturing infants in the public square. Dudes attitude was horrific. No wonder situations escalate and become violent.
Gamma: "When I luved in Bartlett, IL, they had TWO former navy SEALs on the force." Forgive me if I take this with a bag of salt. For every SEAL, Green Beret, or Ranger, there's probably at least 10 guys walking around claiming they were one, including police, like these two idiots out in Texas: https://sanangelolive.com/news/crime/202… There's multiple websites devoted solely to uncovering these fakers. Has anyone seen a homeless beggar lately that wasn't a veteran?
Sideshow: I wouldn't give two shits if Floyd had been killed by just another thug. But he wasn't. He was killed by a thug wearing a police uniform. And we have this little thing in our country called the Constitution that says the government can't take your life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Having a thug wearing a police uniform crush your neck with his knee until you die is not due process of law. So I care. A lot.
25: Yes, the video was sad, pathetic, disgusting, and outrageous all at once.
I'm curious about two things regarding the cop Chauvin.
First, here's a quote from the nightclub owner who employed him as off-duty police protection (from this CBS News article: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floy…)
"Santamaria said she had been paying Chauvin, when he was off-duty, to sit in his squad car outside El Nuevo Rodeo for 17 years." Since when are cops allowed to use their squad cars, on their own personal time, to make extra money? Can a mailman take his truck home with him and make extra delivering packages around town? Aside from the obvious (vehicle wear and tear, cost of gas, etc.) wouldn't that be a liability risk for the Police Department if he were to have an accident? I'll bet one of two things... either it was A) a "perk" offered to appease the police union or B) he wasn't really "off-duty" but rather on the clock and earning some "double dip" income by sitting on his ass and occasionally helping to throw a drunk out of a bar.
Second, what kind of police officer with 19 years on the force, is still a uniformed beat cop driving around in a black-and-white squad car, who gets dispatched to deal with a guy passing a counterfeit $20 bill? One would think he might have risen a little higher up in the ranks after two decades. I started doing a little research and found out he had previously spent 8 years in the Army Reserve where he had similar career success. This quote from Stars and Strips: https://www.stripes.com/news/us/ex-minne…
"Chauvin enlisted in the Army Reserve in February 1996 and left in February 2004, about three years after he joined the Minneapolis Police Department, according to his military service record and a redacted copy of his police personnel file. He attained the rank of specialist in February 1998 and left the service at the same rank." Eight years and his big accomplishment was being promoted one step above a Private First Class, and then nothing for six years.
I haven't found anything about his official police officer rank, but it seems his career didn't go very far in 19 years. Will be interesting to see what other information comes out about this guy.
I totally agree with the UNION talk. They are the ones that need to be defunded. In MN where this happened the Unions and the politicians they had in their pockets made a law for it to be hard to get fired for having complaints against officers. Look who Unions have in there back pocket... and vote those ones out.
The Minneapolis Police Chief did a good thing today.... broke off contract talks with the Union. If the Union doesn't look at reform it wont do any good to try anything else.
Echoing Longball's point, it has only been in the past 10-15 years that police departmenta havehad to militarize to deal with the new threats posed to this nation by international terror. There were always mass shootings here and there, but only al Qaeda and even more so ISIS were able to radicalize adherents online to go out and kill Americans by the dozen. You can't meet that threat with a sheet metal squad car, fabric vest, and .40cal sidearm. You need armored vehicles, rigid kevlar body armor, and high-powere long guns.
Not even AQ and ISIL can take all of the blame, even before Newtown, Parkland, and Aurora you had Columbine and -far more significantly- the LA Bank of America shoot out. After all of that, and everything Obama brought on us with ISIS, there is a recognized need for police to retool to meet changes in the threat landscape.
I'm going to take it one step further, and suggest that you reap what you sow. Just like when 25IQ's kid cousin got knocked on his ass in Buffalo, cops are going to return how you approach them. I have not had an unpleasant encounter with a cop since 1999 or 2000. I've had maybe seven or eight moving violations since then, and 2 or 3 additional interactions in their uniformed capacity. If you are cool with the cop and treat him as you want to be treated, they will at least knock down a speeding ticket to a moving violation, like disobeyance of traffic signage. It's common sense and common decency. Even if they are mostly bottom 50% of their graduating class meatheads and bullies.
My guess is the sum total knowledge of the police by posters here is around zero. None of this has jack shit to do with unions and personally I am anti-union and virulently opposed to them. Without police unions to protect them from the 99% of complaints which are pure bullshit; no one does the job. Make them personally liable? No one does the job. The asshole who hired him as a bouncer is a piece of shit. Now he's a bad guy and you knew it? Seventeen fucking years he worked for you and now you know it lol. Asshole. I have dealt with cops personally; been arrested; been in jail; practiced law for almost 38 years and as much as they are assholes they are jesus compared to the human excrement they deal with. One of my former cop poker buds called this his timeline the last time we played in 2005: first year I knew I would make a difference; within five years I hoped I would some day make a difference; after 10 years I wanted to be a in a coma for the next ten years so I could just retire; after 15 years I hated everyone and didn't care if they or I lived or died; after 20 years ............It ends there. His Wife (3rd) divorced him in year 19 so he cancelled his insurance policies in violation of the Court Order; thanked his wife for helping him almost make to to 20 years and then abandoning him; and disappeared. Seven years later he was pronounced legally dead and five years after that his remains were found in the woods 100 yards from his former house. He shot himself and died in plain view of his house and no one even looked. Being a cop killed him inside first and then completely. I see the aftermath of what they see and it made and makes me feel very differently about people. He saw the mess before it was cleaned up and sent to me. My God have mercy on your soul A.
"My guess is the sum total knowledge of the police by posters here is around zero"
_______
That describes me perfectly. However, I did watch a few reruns of Starsky and Hutch.
I don't hate cops the way others do. They are my opponent most of the time, but they make awesome divorce clients because many get married and divorced a lot.
>>>Just like when 25IQ's kid cousin got knocked on his ass in Buffalo, cops are going to return how you approach <<<
Gammanu what type of a turd are you anyway who the fuck are you even talking about, you should stick to what you know best, calling me and Nina porch monkeys you stupid bigoted fuck up
What a fuckn dumbass.
During a low point in my early career, I nearly became a cop. Rather than lie during the interview and get busted on the lie detector, I told the truth about my drug use history during the interview. The rejection letter followed quickly, LOL. Talk about dodging a bullet. I have zero regrets about that.
Just like when 25IQ's kid cousin got knocked on his ass in Buffalo, cops are going to return how you approach
————
Where the fuck did that come from you bigoted turd burgular
Go back to what you know best calling folks porch monkeys
I know way too many friends, people I grew up with, or clients that are cops that I know are good guys to accept painting cops as a whole with a broad brush. It is a tough job and continually getting tougher. I've heard enough stories of what goes on to know I would never want to trade places.
@skibum - you're a better, or at least more patient man than me if 38 years in you're still taking divorce cases. I've been transitioning myself out of that area, just run out of patience for people making decisions on emotion rather than logic.
Come to think of it, that seems to be happening a lot nowadays...
Thank you dr evil for your reasonable post on this topic. I partially disagree with your 1st sentence - but it's encouraging to hear some well expressed common sense, even here.
"My guess is the sum total knowledge of the police by posters here is around zero"
_______
But we all did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, right?
I see a much bigger problem with crime and rioting than with police. In fact, I'm old enough to remember when criminals were actually looked down on my most people. I keep thinking this is all a bad dream and I'll wake up in normal land again but it doesn't seem to happen.
I definitely with Skibum on this one. I’m no fan of unions either but if there were no police unions they would just beocme the sacrificial lambs of the totalitarian left machine. Good luck getting quality applicants with no job security whatsoever. In Liberaland the crooks already run the show, do we seriously want to embolden them even more? If you want you city to become Baltimore, feel free.
We just have to stop paying government jobs in general so much, that’s my beef with these unions. This country has too much in unfunded pension liabilities and unions are a big reason for it but that’s a whole other thing.
All government pensions should turned over to 401k and IRA, just like the private sector. It would help obsolete the unions, improve the economy, and save municipal/state/federal budgets millions of dollars a year, and billions of dollars withon the decade! Think of the budget surplusses a.d tax reductions! Of course, no politician is ever going to vote for that or term limits. That is the TRUE inequality in America - the ruling class. Government of the people, for the people, and by the people has perished from the Earth.
@Papi: " If they want to do that shit, they should join the Army and volunteer for special forces or something."
Most of them wouldn't qualify, and those who did would rapidly find out the military is a whole different story from the police. Much lower tolerance for war crimes like what we see police doing.
The best cops, and military, have two characteristics
1. Physically, and psychologically, capable of doing violence
2. Highly disciplined and capable of controlling their potential for violence.
The left thinks the best cops, and military, are people incapable of doing violence. That’s what this defunding effort really has as its goal.
@Mark94:"The left thinks the best cops, and military, are people incapable of doing violence. "
____________
Non-sociopaths think that murdering a restrained human-being pleading for his life is unacceptable. And this murder had racial overtones.
Lone wolf - who drives around without a seat belt, while texting with weed openly visible on the front seat?? And then complains that there’s just too many laws.
How f’ing stupid must you be to act like that and then blame the system for holding you down, making it too hard to know all the laws.
This is not hard, just grow the fuck up and act like an adult. You’ll then get adult privileges. SMH
I have to agree with 623. Don't want to get arrested or cited? Follow the law. Don't want to get tased, beat, choked, or shot? Follow the law and comply with the cops. Then call skibum or JS69.
Yeah... it is never the person who is breaking the laws fault... it is the officer. That is the problem. People get pissed when they get pulled over for speeding. Were u breaking the law.... YES.... so it is on you... take responsibility.
Now with what Skibum stated about how cops get jaded. It is 100% correct and how that happens. It is why the Unions need to do more for them... give them support groups, give them education, etc. Also it is the Union's fault. Look into the Laws in MN. They pushed for these laws so it is hard to fire bad cops... same goes for bad teachers in the state. That is the Unions doing. The Police Chief even stated that he broke off talks with the Union and the new contract because even with evidence to fire a guy he cant because of the union and arbitration laws in MN.
No even in workplaces without unions, it can be really hard to fire someone. Corporations have to wait until there are RiFs (Reduction in Force) to get rid of troublesome people. Of course by that time they have to get rid of some of the good ones too.
I can solve this simply. Ban the police union, let the bad cops be fired just like any other profession other than government workers( thats another problem ). The black community needs to send more to the police academy, let them help effect change from one of the sources of the problem. The majority of police just want to make it home each day to their family and loved ones. The power hungry ones with either small man syndrome or trying to compensate for a small dick need to go find a different job.
It's not just the union, it's the whole gang mentality. us against them, stick together, brotherhood, etc...
Not testifying against another cop.
Sticking up for liars and thieves among them.
Some of the worst behavior I've ever seen, really, was a NYPD officer in a little neighborhood bar smoking and handing out free beers yelling at everyone. Sure, seems harmless, but apparently, the bartender told me, he does this every time he shows up and there's not a goddamned thing anyone there can do cause he's the untouchable (she can't charge for any of the beers, no one asked for them). And he was barely past rooky, no seniority whatsoever.
They demand loyalty no differently than any gang. The union is just an outreach of that.
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As big of a man as Mr Floyd was I find it difficult, after hearing what was said on that tape, to think of Mr. Floyd as posing a threat to any of those police
Would anyone care?
Sideshow: I wouldn't give two shits if Floyd had been killed by just another thug. But he wasn't. He was killed by a thug wearing a police uniform. And we have this little thing in our country called the Constitution that says the government can't take your life, liberty, or property without due process of law. Having a thug wearing a police uniform crush your neck with his knee until you die is not due process of law. So I care. A lot.
25: Yes, the video was sad, pathetic, disgusting, and outrageous all at once.
First, here's a quote from the nightclub owner who employed him as off-duty police protection (from this CBS News article: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floy…)
"Santamaria said she had been paying Chauvin, when he was off-duty, to sit in his squad car outside El Nuevo Rodeo for 17 years." Since when are cops allowed to use their squad cars, on their own personal time, to make extra money? Can a mailman take his truck home with him and make extra delivering packages around town? Aside from the obvious (vehicle wear and tear, cost of gas, etc.) wouldn't that be a liability risk for the Police Department if he were to have an accident? I'll bet one of two things... either it was A) a "perk" offered to appease the police union or B) he wasn't really "off-duty" but rather on the clock and earning some "double dip" income by sitting on his ass and occasionally helping to throw a drunk out of a bar.
Second, what kind of police officer with 19 years on the force, is still a uniformed beat cop driving around in a black-and-white squad car, who gets dispatched to deal with a guy passing a counterfeit $20 bill? One would think he might have risen a little higher up in the ranks after two decades. I started doing a little research and found out he had previously spent 8 years in the Army Reserve where he had similar career success. This quote from Stars and Strips: https://www.stripes.com/news/us/ex-minne…
"Chauvin enlisted in the Army Reserve in February 1996 and left in February 2004, about three years after he joined the Minneapolis Police Department, according to his military service record and a redacted copy of his police personnel file. He attained the rank of specialist in February 1998 and left the service at the same rank." Eight years and his big accomplishment was being promoted one step above a Private First Class, and then nothing for six years.
I haven't found anything about his official police officer rank, but it seems his career didn't go very far in 19 years. Will be interesting to see what other information comes out about this guy.
The Minneapolis Police Chief did a good thing today.... broke off contract talks with the Union. If the Union doesn't look at reform it wont do any good to try anything else.
Not even AQ and ISIL can take all of the blame, even before Newtown, Parkland, and Aurora you had Columbine and -far more significantly- the LA Bank of America shoot out. After all of that, and everything Obama brought on us with ISIS, there is a recognized need for police to retool to meet changes in the threat landscape.
_______
That describes me perfectly. However, I did watch a few reruns of Starsky and Hutch.
Gammanu what type of a turd are you anyway who the fuck are you even talking about, you should stick to what you know best, calling me and Nina porch monkeys you stupid bigoted fuck up
What a fuckn dumbass.
Just like when 25IQ's kid cousin got knocked on his ass in Buffalo, cops are going to return how you approach
————
Where the fuck did that come from you bigoted turd burgular
Go back to what you know best calling folks porch monkeys
@skibum - you're a better, or at least more patient man than me if 38 years in you're still taking divorce cases. I've been transitioning myself out of that area, just run out of patience for people making decisions on emotion rather than logic.
Come to think of it, that seems to be happening a lot nowadays...
_______
But we all did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, right?
We just have to stop paying government jobs in general so much, that’s my beef with these unions. This country has too much in unfunded pension liabilities and unions are a big reason for it but that’s a whole other thing.
Most of them wouldn't qualify, and those who did would rapidly find out the military is a whole different story from the police. Much lower tolerance for war crimes like what we see police doing.
1. Physically, and psychologically, capable of doing violence
2. Highly disciplined and capable of controlling their potential for violence.
The left thinks the best cops, and military, are people incapable of doing violence. That’s what this defunding effort really has as its goal.
____________
Non-sociopaths think that murdering a restrained human-being pleading for his life is unacceptable. And this murder had racial overtones.
As usual, you're a nutcase.
Hell, it's hard for anyone to step out their house without breaking one of the million laws on the books.
Get pulled over for not wearing a seatbelt or texting. Cop spots some weed on the seat. Past due warrants.
How about the draconian DUI laws. How about no proof restraining orders.
Once someone is in the "system" it's hard as hell to get out.
How f’ing stupid must you be to act like that and then blame the system for holding you down, making it too hard to know all the laws.
This is not hard, just grow the fuck up and act like an adult. You’ll then get adult privileges. SMH
Now with what Skibum stated about how cops get jaded. It is 100% correct and how that happens. It is why the Unions need to do more for them... give them support groups, give them education, etc. Also it is the Union's fault. Look into the Laws in MN. They pushed for these laws so it is hard to fire bad cops... same goes for bad teachers in the state. That is the Unions doing. The Police Chief even stated that he broke off talks with the Union and the new contract because even with evidence to fire a guy he cant because of the union and arbitration laws in MN.
Not testifying against another cop.
Sticking up for liars and thieves among them.
Some of the worst behavior I've ever seen, really, was a NYPD officer in a little neighborhood bar smoking and handing out free beers yelling at everyone. Sure, seems harmless, but apparently, the bartender told me, he does this every time he shows up and there's not a goddamned thing anyone there can do cause he's the untouchable (she can't charge for any of the beers, no one asked for them). And he was barely past rooky, no seniority whatsoever.
They demand loyalty no differently than any gang. The union is just an outreach of that.