Disclosing arrest info would result in a lawsuit.
For members of the public to do this, it will also result in a lawsuit.
People have done this is Canada, it it resulted in lawsuits.
And adding other charges which are unwarranted is entirely improper and will result in lawsuits.
SJG
PhatBoyHell is a troll account.
If a man and a woman are talking to each other, this does not mean there is anything illicit.
This is why the reality TV shows always give some critical admonitions.
SJG
"... The online database of sex buyers is part of a broader effort to crack down on human trafficking ..."
Sale old bullshit - trying to make the public believe that sex-work eauals a 1-to-1 correlation with sex-trafficking where in reality is a small % - most of these anti sex-work "advocates" are hypocrites that have some kinda ax to grind for some kinda personal agenda/gain and use anti-sex-work as a low-hanging-fruit.
In many other modern societies, sex-work is seen as normal and nothing to shame anyone about - here in the U.S. they keep beating the same drum they have been beating for a 100-years w.r.t. sex-work, and those that don't conform to a narrow-view of sex are seen as deplorables that need to be dealt with - SMH - how stupid, hypocritical, and counter-productive.
Prostitution is legal in many places but isn't culturally normative.
Its not about sex. Its about solicitationa d lewd and or dessolute behavior.
There have also been moves to register tricks as sex offenders
^^^^ I strongly disagree. Prostitution is created by marriage and a sex negative culture. It is culturally normative. Nothing lewd or dissolute about it.
Registering convicted tricks would not be unlawful, but it also would accomplish absolutely nothing.
SJG
It would diacourage men from engaging in prostitution. The thought of being a sex offender for it and put in a public registry wiuld make men think twice.
We cannot enforce the criminal code in that way. We don't tar and feather people any more. Prostitution is a minor offense. And with trying to eradicate it it will not work.
Its just like Prohibition, did not work.
The crime of Prostitution is only in a verbal contract between two people. Very very hard to fairly enforce.
SJG
This is the equivalent of a witch-hunt and going after those that don't think the way some in society want everyone to think - for those that do not like engaging in pay-for-sex, they don't have to, but why should they impose their personal-viewpoint on every other consenting-adult in society
That's why amps go down when they get busted. Tax evasion money laundering business fraud tax fraud. Thats what they look for during stings at clubs and amps.
Tax evasion is not the same as violating labor laws.
And also very hard to prove based on the one snapshot of that bust for tax evasion.
AMPs go down via prostitution bust and also some very mean spirited local zoning ordinances, often involving civil actions to get the closure.
Look on RubMaps, the number of AMPs running in San Francisco, in Los Angeles, in San Gabriel Valley.
They do not enforce any labor laws.
SJG
They go through documents etc come in with search warrants. Running a brothel and calling it a massage parlor violates labor laws. Tax evasion tax fraud etc goes along with that. The goal is to pile on as many charges as possible. Thats what prostitution busts are about
If someone is so desperate for money to pay for food and shelter or a drug addiction that they consider prostitution, it says a lot more about the country/state/society/community/system than it does about the individual.
If the country/state/society/community/system can’t provide viable options that help people keep their dignity while making enough to live a respectful life, then it should be the country/state/society/community/syste that gets penalized, not the person driven to desperation.
“It is the sufferings of the many which pay for the luxuries of the few...”
“If solutions within this system are so difficult to find then maybe we should change the system itself" - Greta Thunberg
Tolerance isn't approval. Public urination can land you on the sex offender registry. Thats ridiculous. But the premise is a huge deterrent to solicitation
This is some straight up medieval shit. Oh wait, it’s actually too puritanical for Medieval times. Even the medieval church thought making prostitution illegal did more harm than good unlike the US government.
Theyre not small crimes. Each incident is a part of a huge social problem. Prostitution is not simply exchanging sex for money. Not to mention the social impact.
If. Someone knows they will be made accountable and the public will know. They'll think twice about doing it.
IceyLoco is correct that public shaming works... until the shaming becomes meaningless due to tolerance and enough exposure to it.
Part of the judicial sentence in the MA colony was shaming. It worked then. May not not be as effective now, but you can bet it works from the # of 3%'ers who would object.
That is why blackmail is a crime... and why so many people still fall prey to internet blackmailer scams demanding bitcoin for not exposing webcam videos....
Actually blackmail is only a crime if it invilves extortion or coercion. In which case the difference becomes one of force vs information as a method to commit theft.
That said sex offender and criminal registries are not blackmail.
If said perpetrator feels shamed then they shouldn't commit the crime.
> Actually blackmail is only a crime if it invilves extortion or coercion.
If it doesn’t involve extortion or coercion can you really even call it blackmail? Maybe I can find someone on here who’s qualified to give free legal advice
"Part of the judicial sentence in the MA colony was shaming." And that legacy is one of the reasons our Constitution prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.
" Each incident is a part of a huge social problem."
Not everyone agrees with that. Most see the lack of a social safety net and the lack of safety protections for women as a far greater crime.
We usually don't want to try and proscribe sexual norms. We only do it over consent and for protection of minors.
Marital infidelity is not a crime, never has been in the US. Is not most places in the world.
Icey, why are you so invested in trying to regulate the behavior of consenting adults?
SJG
Safety for the women means addressing the problems they face that lead them to be so desperate to prostitute themselves.
The problems they face addictions mental and emotional problems being trafficked etc compromise their ability to give consent as such.
Yes, but many women do freely seek prostitution. Without clearly compelling reason, there is no justification for trying to interfere with this.
SJG
Daniel Castro - I'll Play The Blues For You
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Ive never met a prostitite who wanted to be one. The myth of the happy hooker is just that.
Solicitation is illegal regardleas of the illicit trade sought
Lots of women just want easy money for little work and don’t mind fucking dudes for it. I’m not sure why that concept is so difficult for some people to comprehend. And why is it that every office job is allowed to be shitty and stressful but the smallest problems with prostitution get nit picked and every woman who is one has to be basking in a sea of sunshine or else it’s terrible?
Nobody ever said prostitution is something most women can or would want to do. But prostitution is an incredibly natural arrangement. Practically every guy has to use some form of incentives to get women to sleep with him, it’s part of the male experience, why are we so obsessed with disqualifying financial incentives as a method of getting sex?
The reason it is such an issue is that women circulating freely is seen as a threat to the institution of marriage.
But today in a Liberal Democracy we allow people to make their own choices. But still, many look down on prostitutes and so they want to keep them in a delegitimated state.
Icey, I really don't understand why you even worry about this.
SJG
@IceyLoco
There is practically no difference between the mindset paying a girl to fuck you and buying her drinks at a club so she will pay attention to you or various other methods guys use to get women’s attention.
It’s all using incentives to encourage a woman to fuck you. It’s a necessary tactic for 80% of the male population.
Icey, I always talk to women in a civilian manner.
But if a woman does not like how she is being talked to, she can always tell the guy to take a hike.
Communications are by mutual consent.
And in seduction situations, women are generally consciously playing along with it.
They are not as passive as they make themselves appear to be.
SJG
Icey, I flirt with women, and sometimes it does go to sex and money.
And no, prostitution which is not violating other laws does not oppress women because it is their choice. But I would agree that there should be some protections for the women.
SJG
I just think that security at the brothels themselves could be tightened up. Throw dangerous customers out and blacklist them so that other brothels know who potentially problematic customers are.
Sjg even if prostitution were legal. Solicitation would not be. Moves to help the women make solicitation oebalties harsher.
Cc99 so visit rural Nevada
If we want to decriminalize prostitution we will make sure that any related laws, even labor laws, are cleared out of the way.
I support this, but i also feel that we do need to have some specific protections for women.
SJG
Daniel Castro - I'll Play The Blues For You
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Slow Blues/ Blues Ballads 1 - A two hour long compilation
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Everything for Everyone: The Radical Tradition That Is Shaping the Next Economy
by Nathan Schneider, a leader in the Occupy Movement
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Green New Deal full text, 14 pages
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Daniel Castro - I'll Play The Blues For You
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Slow Blues/ Blues Ballads 1 - A two hour long compilation
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TJ Street
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Old thread, valuable info, closed:
OT: Programmable Logic Devices
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Nothing unconstitutional about decriminalizing prostitution and providing some protections for the women.
Why Icey do you care about this, why do you want to interdict consensual adult behavior?
SJG
The Nevada model is horrible. Probably a prime example of how not to do legalized prostitution. I support a model more similar to Spain, Japan, and South Korea's.
@SJG
You'd love the kiss bars (South Korea) and oppai pubs in Japan. Both of them the girl sits with you and you can grope the girls tits, rub her belly and tongue kiss for about $60-70 an hour. Some girls will let you masturbate or give you a handjob.
Basically, you have to pay more money just for a ten minute lap dance ($100) in the US than you could get in East Asia for 6 times longer and much more contact.
I also like that the countries I mentioned don't have any consequences for women who want to dabble in the sex industry. A lot of girls in Spain, South Korea and Japan are only prostitutes for a few months or a year, leave, and do other stuff or even date/marry one of their clients. Lots of housewives or women working in offices there could've been a prostitute at some point and nobody would know. The reason I think this is good is because it allows for higher numbers of women to dabble in the industry without needing to become a career prostitute. Being a prostitute isn't a life changing situation, its often something women do for a little while to get easy money and dip out. That's why you often see numbers saying about 15% of women in Japan and South Korea have been prostitutes at some point but there's only 250,000-300,000 active prostitutes in South Korea and about 400,000-500,000 active prostitutes in Japan.
A really surprising number of women have paid for sex in South Korea and Japan too. Higher numbers of women have in those countries than just about anywhere else I can think of. I read that its about 5% of women with 2.5% claiming to lose their virginity to a prostitute. I think women also paying for sex, even if it'll always be in lower numbers, is a good thing.
"You'd love the kiss bars (South Korea) and oppai pubs in Japan. Both of them the girl sits with you and you can grope the girls tits, rub her belly and tongue kiss for about $60-70 an hour. Some girls will let you masturbate or give you a handjob."
Awesome, and I will not even ask you how you know all about that.
SJG
Structural injustices in our world Icey. "Work on yourself" is merely Uncle Tom type advice, making the survivor the one with a deficit.
CC99 wrote, "I also like that the countries I mentioned don't have any consequences for women who want to dabble in the sex industry. A lot of girls in Spain, South Korea and Japan are only prostitutes for a few months or a year, leave, and do other stuff or even date/marry one of their clients."
This is why most women do not want hooker licenses. The records of that are usually public too.
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"How would you like to enjoy an intimate french kissing session with some college student from Seoul? If making out with hot young girls is a thing for you, definitely do not miss out Kiss Rooms (or Kiss Bang in Korean) in Seoul."
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SJG
TJ Street
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Graham Bond ✪ Holy Magick [full album]
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Grahame Bond - Love Is the Law [full album / bonus tracks]
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M Davis Bitches Brew 1970 Full Album
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A person has to be able to function in society.
Also most hookers in Spain are poor east european women. And towns with brothels have to deal with the problems sex tourists bring in
Not able to function in society is just like mental health, concepts invented to further abuse survivors.
And Spain's problems are Spain's problems.
SJG
But saying someone is unable to function in society is just de legitimating them. And then turning it into a self-improvement project or a project for psychotherapy or recovery programs is just another layer of abuse.
Says here, the mental illness idea is just making ordinary hard life experience into a medical problem.
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Author also says that for each person he has encountered who is presumed to have mental illness, he would be just like them if he had had to live through what they have.
The first step everyone so impacted has to take is to tell all the self-improvement advisors where to stick it.
SJG
Why Are Americans Not Protected Against COVID-19? (w/ Dr. Leana Wen)
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TJ Street
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Graham Bond ✪ Holy Magick [full album]
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Grahame Bond - Love Is the Law [full album / bonus tracks]
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M Davis Bitches Brew 1970 Full Album
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Thelonious Monk - Live Zurich 1964
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Neil Young - Imagine
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Eastern Europe really isn't that poor anymore. People hear "Romanian prostitutes" and their image of it is still stuck in the Cold War era but Romania is listed as having a "very high human development index" and is ranked number 10 in the European union for Purchasing power per person. The price of living in Eastern Europe is very low compared to Western Europe, so even though they technically don't make as much cash, they don't have to spend nearly as much to live there comfortably.
The Czech Republic meanwhile has one of the highest human development scores in the world.
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The Czech girls in that filming studio, definitely looking good, and preliminary DFKing.
You know what US Lot Lizards look like. Well I found a picture of Polish Lot Lizards and they would be fully welcomed into any US Strip club.
The effect LE has is just to drive down the looks of the women, until no one could believe that they are actually supposed to be hookers.
Thank you CC99 for your excellent info.
SJG
Pearl Jam with Neil Young - Rockin in the free world Toronto 2011 COMPLETE
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@SJG
That's what I thought before about some of the women advertising on sites like Escort Directory. How the hell do they get any business? You are right, I can't take them seriously as hookers and I especially cannot take their requests for $200 an hour seriously. Some of them are bad enough I'd pay them not to fuck me.
Stats don't mean much. Theyre poor countries. Haiti has a national health care system but lacks money to fund it.
These women are trafgicked to western europe to earn euros
You are way too sheltered
Stats usually report reality. If that's not enough though, this is what the capital city of Romania looks like...
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This is what a real poor country's city looks like.
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Compare Romania to the Netherlands or Denmark.
But your whole premise is to defend anything and everything to do with hookers. Focus that energy on something productive.
@Heaving
Yeah, but its a big city in Pakistan and contains over 10% of its population now.
@IceyLoco
The Netherlands and Denmark are doing slightly better. What I'm saying is that Eastern Europe isn't that different from Western Europe anymore.
What I'm trying to point out is that slums in Bucharest are a small portion of the city. Whereas in Karachi, slums are more like half the city. At the very least, the slums are big enough that they bleed through the city.
No youre trying to claim that hookers aren't victims and that tbeyre all happy and love yheir jobs. You desperately try to avoid the fact that prostitution is ecploitive becaise its easier to feel gpod about paying hookers tjam realizing and working on your shortcoming s all while ignoring the fact that solicitation is a crime. If you were in jail youd break really fast
They're not victims, prostitution is generally an okay job. Its got a lot of perks to it that other jobs don't.
Yeah I would hate prison. Thing is, I don't think I've seen a prostitute in over a year now. My money is better spent on waifu dolls than getting charged $400 just for an hour of sex.
But I like the atmosphere that a country has when the sex industry is bigger. I like the idea that people around me are fucking too. And maybe if the prices got lower I'd go to a brothel every now and then too. I'd have to get my doll first but why not?
I live in an apartment with three other guys, another friend of ours visits every weekend Friday through Sunday (sometimes staying Monday). We are all 6+ in looks, not a single one of us has had sex with a human girl since the school year began (six months approximately). I run a server with 6 guys including myself. Only one of them has had sex. One guy is 25 years old and a virgin. Out of all the guys I have regular contact with, in the past six months, only 2 out of 12 have had sex.
At least its better than people fucking for the sole purpose of social status though. I want a sexually charged environment but only if its for the sake of sex itself and not something that gets turned into a competition.
Most people out there are having sex though. And its not about competition. And a lot of people desperately want a real bond. Experience the world more.
But outlawing prostitution, or shamming tricks, improves NOTHING.
College has serious limitations, making a guy live in an extended adolescence. I am talking about elite colleges, not CSU or Community Colleges.
UC is elite, like where Eliot Rodger was, and where most of these people claim Incel are places like that. Very few employed students, demanding course work so that it is largely incompatible with employment. Most supported by their parents. The women do not want relationships. The men will be seen as immature. So in such an environment you have the rise of adolescent types like The Frat Boy.
I do not go along with the Incel interpretation, but I see that there is a problem. The young women have a right to do what they do. But a young man should have other options. But it is a structural disadvantage.
And don't say, "Work on Yourself". That does nothing to dismantle the structural dynamics of being seen as an adolescent because of the state you are living in.
Injustices are redressed by fighting back, not by personalizing it and submitting.
SJG
"Work on yourself" would be no solution for Rodgers. He had been made the family scape goat, by his father and his birth mother. The only way to remedy that is conflict and involuntary action against them. "Work on yourself" is just more abuse.
Decriminalization has to be done so that it is effective, lifts all prohibitions which are in the way.
New SF DA will not prosecute on procuring or soliciting. He does not want to put people in jail for what really are minor crimes which have no victim.
SJG
Rodgers was trying to earn the acceptance of his father. What he did was bad. But the idea of "help" is just psychotherapy and that is just more abuse.
SF DA will not enforce any laws against consensual adult sex work.
there are things state or fed could enforce, but probably they won't, as they don't really other places. Expect highly populated hooker zones and the most brazen of strip clubs and amps, very hard for anyone to do anything about it.
Keep looking for new news and posting it.
SJG
The DA has discretion whether or not to prosecute. Boudin is not going to prosecute most misdemeanors.
People might vote him out of office early.
Lets pay attention to the news and see. I hope he succeeds.
With Elliot Rodger:
Parents were sending him to a psychotherapist. Father explained this in Barbara Walters interview.
Most all middle-class child abuse involves doctors of one type or another. The doctor's licensing is what makes it hard to prosecute. But mandatory reporting should stop this.
If a minor child is brought to a psychotherapist or psychiatrist, or to anything like that, law should be strengthened so that that does trigger mandatory reporting right away. Have to report to Child Protective Services. Being sent to such a therapist should be seen as sufficient evidence to suspect child abuse.
So CPS would talk to therapist. Then they would do a well being check, which is basically an unannounced knock and talk. They would get the minor alone.
If they find nothing, it goes no further. But they would require regular reports from the therapist.
If they find something, they investigate further. If it pans out they start a case in the juvenile dependency court. In CA the child will be represented by a Deputy DA, as well as likely assigned a CASA Volunteer so that they have someone who knows them and the situation to contact regularly.
Therapist is just a fixer the parents hired. But a judge, he can actually clean the wax our of their ears.
So for one thing, it is the parents who should be required to see the therapist, the minor only maybe.
Then they transferred Elliot out of regular high school and sent him to this special high school for "troubled boys".
That also should have triggered mandatory report to CPS.
Then also, in original high school Elliot was being subjected to bullying. He said, "bullying in front of girls". Well that also should have triggered intervention with school admins.
Parents, the father, the birth mother, and the step mother, all held to the view that Elliot was somehow defective, and a problem to be solved. Well right there that is child abuse. And the only one who could have authority over them was a judge. One of the most important things for the judge to do would be to make it clear to these parents that no matter what, they will be held financially responsible, and that there is no time limit or dollar amount limit on this. That would have changed things, hitting them in the only way in which they understand.
But as it stands now our legal system does not go this far in protecting children. It more sides with the parents.
Later, at UC Santa Barbara, Elliot would fall under the influence of the Right Internet Misogyny, and then under the influence of the NRA/Republican Party political doctrine of violent retribution. Hard to do much about that, as we do not restrict political speech. And these entities were not his guardians and he did not live with them, and he was by then an adult.
Elliot wanted to win the approval of his father by having the blonde bombshell on his arm. This is why his parents sent him to UCSB and Isla Vista, and why the Birth Mother bought him the BMW.
But when things did not go the way they all wanted, Elliot became distraught.
And no amount of "working on himself" or other self improvement would ever change the fact that he had "family scapegoat" written all over him, and that his biography was built on it. The only way he could change that would have been by publicly punishing his parents.
He said in his manifesto that he wanted to kill them, all of them, naming them. But he said that he was afraid to kill Peter. Well that right there tells you what it is all really about.
If he had been able to publicly humiliate Peter with a lawsuit ,that would have made a big difference. Again, our law does not stand behind children, it stands behind the parents.
Remember that I helped three young women put their father into San Quentin. Their Pentecostal Church totally stood with the parents. And part of my argument to the DA and the Court was that if these girls had not defied their parents' church and come forward with the truth, then 10 or 20 years later they could well have become targets for that church's outreach ministry. And their parents were both involved in that ministry.
With failed marriages, failed attempts to get an education and build a career, these girls would have been told, like the other poor and homeless are, that things are so hard because they don't have Jesus in their lives and because they are Rebellious.
Having come forward and told the truth, they still have a chance. And so if we want other survivors to come forward they have to see that survivors are believed and taken seriously.
So I was elated when the Prosecutor contacted me to inform me that the Jury had returned a guilty verdict and that the defendant was remanded.
I then kept watch on the Inmate Locator and on the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitations site to be most pleased in seeing the defendant transferred to San Quentin.
Elliot Rodger might have had a different life, but only if he was able to publicly stand up to his parents.
But like Paul Mones explains, the more money the parents have the harder this is, the harder it is to protect their children.
Low income parents have to deal with all sorts of public authorities. So they cannot exploit their children so easily. But once parents have enough money to hire their own doctors, things change completely.
And I learned this from the Milan School of Family System's Therapists.
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I got to meet Paul Mones in front of the court house when he was here, working pro-bono, to defend a man who had beaten up the Jesuit Priest who had raped him and his brother as children.
SJG
The law is poor in protecting kids.
"Trafficking" is very poorly defined. If someone is abusing someone else, there are already other laws which apply.
SJG
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